The difference between the depth of the Little Ice Age and the Mid-20th Century was about 1 degree C. If you add another 3 - 9 degrees on top of that in a couple of centuries where will you end up?
We have no choice but to accept the climate change that is already built into the system which will take 10's to 100's of years to fully manifest itself. But we can reduce the rate of change (eventually to zero) by actions we take now and make the ultimate end point less extreme. I have no doubt that homo sapiens will survive as a species. We're very adaptable living in climes as diverse as the Kalahari Desert and the high Arctic. But whether our civilization will be able to support 7+ billion humans is an open question.
I wasn't saying that the Volt and Leaf were making a difference now. But their sales curve so far is similar to the Prius when it first came out. There will be enough sales in the future to make a difference. It takes time to build out the infrastructure but it will happen.
You pay sales tax on gasoline purchases in addition to the gas tax? I've never run into that in my travels around the western US. In Oregon where I live we don't have sales tax at all so it's not an issue.
Whatta ya mean! The US was a net exporter of gasoline last year. We have plenty of refineries but the oil companies don't want to carry a lot of extra capacity because it costs money to maintain it. The most cost effective way for them to process petroleum is with fewer bigger refineries with minimal extra capacity. So yes, if a significant disruption like a refinery fire occurs it echos through the system. But don't think anyone wants to build new refineries. Perhaps you could give some examples of refineries that have been turned down. Not only that but with increasing fuel efficiency standards and the advent of cars that use little or no gasoline like the Volt and the Leaf there probably isn't a need for new refineries anyway.
As far as I know fuel taxes are fixed and don't vary with the price of fuel. That's certainly true in my state and for federal gas taxes. Do you know of any state(s) where the fuel tax is a percentage of the price? So for your example if the per gallon tax is $0.50 that's what is collected whether you pay $1.50 or $3.00.
I agree with you. I doubt we could withdraw enough heat the affect the timing of the next eruption. But theoretically at least it's not impossible that cooling and hardening of magma could change the timing some.
At the rate humans are currently using energy it would have no effect. This development is just tapping residual heat off the magma chamber below Newberry Volcano so it would have no effect other than perhaps slowing down the timing of the next eruption a bit.
Where they're drilling here in on the slopes of Newberry Volcano which has erupted at least 6 times in the last 12,000 years, the last eruption being about 1,400 years ago. There's a magma chamber beneath it so they don't have to go so deep. Wikipedia says they're drilling down 2-3 km (6,500-10,000 feet).
There really is almost no risk this will contaminate anyone's drinking water. No one lives near the well and it's a sparsely populated area in general. The well they are drilling is over 6,000 feet deep in to dry rock. The water they inject will be used in a closed cycle so it's not released to contaminate surface waters.
The amount of energy we can suck of out the well is so miniscule compared to the amount of heat in the mantle I'd be surprised if it had any effect. At best we might be able to delay a volcanic eruption. The wells don't go anywhere near the mantle, just a bit closer to the magma chamber under Mount Newberry.
The Geysers is an entirely different kind of geothermal development. It uses water already in the ground. This new development on Mount Newberry is into dry basalt and all the water they use will be from surface sources and it will be run in a closed loop cycle so none is released.
It's a dry well. There really is no ground water to contaminate in that area, certainly no wells or surface sources that humans depend on for drinking water. The closest human dwelling is probably at least 10 miles away.
That is a dry area not near anyone's drinking water aquifer. They drilled into solid basalt and used cold water to crack it. I'm not even sure there's any avenue for the plastic to escape. The water they use will come from the Deschutes River (which is miles away from the drill site) and will be recycled in a closed cycle. Nobody lives close to the drill site and not many people live within 30 miles of it. The nearest city of any size is Bend, OR, 40 or 50 miles northwest on the other side of Mt. Newberry. As an Oregonian whose spent time in that area I'm not that concerned about it and it's worth the experiment to see how it works.
The silly thing is that studded tires don't really help if you're driving in snow. They only help on ice. On dry pavement they actually lengthen your stopping distance. They might make some sense if you live east of the Cascades but in western Oregon they might be helpful 2 or 3 days out of the year if that. I've never had them and never missed them.
To answer the AC who posted before you, they tried to put a tax of like $25/tire when you buy them on studded tires a few years ago but the outcry made them drop the idea. Whatever happened to the idea that you should pay the cost of your road damage rather and forcing it on to everyone?
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Are you assuming they're to stupid to know the difference between the Martian atmosphere and Earth's atmosphere?
Fair enough. The way you wrote it made me think you thought the scientific certainty wasn't enough to take action.
It would be nice if we could stop net CO2 emissions in 10 years but I think it will take more like 30 or 40 years to reach that point.
By the time it becomes enough of a scientific certainty for you it will be too late to do much about it.
The difference between the depth of the Little Ice Age and the Mid-20th Century was about 1 degree C. If you add another 3 - 9 degrees on top of that in a couple of centuries where will you end up?
We have no choice but to accept the climate change that is already built into the system which will take 10's to 100's of years to fully manifest itself. But we can reduce the rate of change (eventually to zero) by actions we take now and make the ultimate end point less extreme. I have no doubt that homo sapiens will survive as a species. We're very adaptable living in climes as diverse as the Kalahari Desert and the high Arctic. But whether our civilization will be able to support 7+ billion humans is an open question.
Maybe they're not wrong, just premature.
Wasn't it some Republican who said "Keep your government hands off my medicare!"?
I wasn't saying that the Volt and Leaf were making a difference now. But their sales curve so far is similar to the Prius when it first came out. There will be enough sales in the future to make a difference. It takes time to build out the infrastructure but it will happen.
You pay sales tax on gasoline purchases in addition to the gas tax? I've never run into that in my travels around the western US. In Oregon where I live we don't have sales tax at all so it's not an issue.
Whatta ya mean! The US was a net exporter of gasoline last year. We have plenty of refineries but the oil companies don't want to carry a lot of extra capacity because it costs money to maintain it. The most cost effective way for them to process petroleum is with fewer bigger refineries with minimal extra capacity. So yes, if a significant disruption like a refinery fire occurs it echos through the system. But don't think anyone wants to build new refineries. Perhaps you could give some examples of refineries that have been turned down. Not only that but with increasing fuel efficiency standards and the advent of cars that use little or no gasoline like the Volt and the Leaf there probably isn't a need for new refineries anyway.
As far as I know fuel taxes are fixed and don't vary with the price of fuel. That's certainly true in my state and for federal gas taxes. Do you know of any state(s) where the fuel tax is a percentage of the price? So for your example if the per gallon tax is $0.50 that's what is collected whether you pay $1.50 or $3.00.
I agree with you. I doubt we could withdraw enough heat the affect the timing of the next eruption. But theoretically at least it's not impossible that cooling and hardening of magma could change the timing some.
Well, they're not actually drilling into the magma chamber, just dry basalt that's heated by the magma.
It's not my problem if you are unable to perceive the difference between the two practices.
At the rate humans are currently using energy it would have no effect. This development is just tapping residual heat off the magma chamber below Newberry Volcano so it would have no effect other than perhaps slowing down the timing of the next eruption a bit.
Where they're drilling here in on the slopes of Newberry Volcano which has erupted at least 6 times in the last 12,000 years, the last eruption being about 1,400 years ago. There's a magma chamber beneath it so they don't have to go so deep. Wikipedia says they're drilling down 2-3 km (6,500-10,000 feet).
There really is almost no risk this will contaminate anyone's drinking water. No one lives near the well and it's a sparsely populated area in general. The well they are drilling is over 6,000 feet deep in to dry rock. The water they inject will be used in a closed cycle so it's not released to contaminate surface waters.
The amount of energy we can suck of out the well is so miniscule compared to the amount of heat in the mantle I'd be surprised if it had any effect. At best we might be able to delay a volcanic eruption. The wells don't go anywhere near the mantle, just a bit closer to the magma chamber under Mount Newberry.
The Geysers is an entirely different kind of geothermal development. It uses water already in the ground. This new development on Mount Newberry is into dry basalt and all the water they use will be from surface sources and it will be run in a closed loop cycle so none is released.
It's a dry well. There really is no ground water to contaminate in that area, certainly no wells or surface sources that humans depend on for drinking water. The closest human dwelling is probably at least 10 miles away.
That is a dry area not near anyone's drinking water aquifer. They drilled into solid basalt and used cold water to crack it. I'm not even sure there's any avenue for the plastic to escape. The water they use will come from the Deschutes River (which is miles away from the drill site) and will be recycled in a closed cycle. Nobody lives close to the drill site and not many people live within 30 miles of it. The nearest city of any size is Bend, OR, 40 or 50 miles northwest on the other side of Mt. Newberry. As an Oregonian whose spent time in that area I'm not that concerned about it and it's worth the experiment to see how it works.
Vice President of course. That has the same prerequisites as President.
Or you could just drive in a manner that is appropriate for the conditions. It's never been a problem for me.
Yup.
The silly thing is that studded tires don't really help if you're driving in snow. They only help on ice. On dry pavement they actually lengthen your stopping distance. They might make some sense if you live east of the Cascades but in western Oregon they might be helpful 2 or 3 days out of the year if that. I've never had them and never missed them.
To answer the AC who posted before you, they tried to put a tax of like $25/tire when you buy them on studded tires a few years ago but the outcry made them drop the idea. Whatever happened to the idea that you should pay the cost of your road damage rather and forcing it on to everyone?
The Portland metro area but not in Salem and I don't think Eugene or Bend either but they do have smog check in the Medford area.
We don't want your sort here anyway. (Hostile native Oregonian)