oi - the gargantuan winchester disk, the 8" floppy disk magazines, twinax, synchronous modems... We had one of the fast line printers (can't remember the model, damn it all) - it had the print band and could rip through greenbar like there was no tomorrow. Operating it with the cover up for any length of time was sure to cause hearing loss, but it was fast. I can remember when a tech had to come out and replace the winchester disk - that was quite the experience. and then reinstalling the OS, our software, and restoring the data from our tape backup - a long weekend project. I really liked the S/36. Not fast, but rock solid. I remember wanting to put it in my garage when we replaced it with a little IBM RISC box (running the S/36 software in emulation), but my wife at the time nixed that idea.
er, to continue your analogy, then, asking a mechanic who is used to working on a particular brand of automobile is unlikely to give you much in the way of useful insight into other brands. Just like Slashdot, you're going to get the biases inherent in the opinion on the mechanic; whether they have any factual merit or not is irrelevant, as how would you know, unless you were likewise 'proficient'? Speak to three different mechanics for three different makes, and you'll get three varying points of view. Same with/. - there aren't that many people here who can view things objectively, and say "platform x is easier to work with in this particular instance than platform y, and both cost more than platform z (though it's not initially configured to support what you need, it can be made to work with a little elbow grease)." It's linux fanbois vs. the *bsd fanbois vs. trolls, with the occasional helpful bit of information thrown in.
I've had no experience with Fortran, but a billion years ago when I got my start in IT I remember writing programs in RPG II for a System/36. I remember the joys of the program cycle, and struggling to remember the positional params without the 'punch-card' cheat sheet. Actually, in retrospect, it's kind of keen in a really nerdy way that RPG had that 'virtual punch-card' support, but I wasn't so hot for it at the time...
er, I think you may want to reopen the case and investigate, Dr. Holmes. Prohibition of alcohol was in effect from 1919 to 1933. During that time, marijuana was illegal only in the following states in the US: Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Iowa, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Montana. That leaves a large area of the country where marijuana was legal, and I don't think it was even covered under the Harrison Act (which taxed cocaine and opiates). That of course was back when the federal government couldn't do things such as declare drugs illegal - it was up to individual states to do so.
I was just being funny - my Thinkpad has been a good machine, actually. Battery life is decent, and I'm pleased with the performance overall. I'd like to get an 'Ultra' dock, so I could add a second hard disk and a PCIe graphics adapter to make it more like a desktop - with 2GB of RAM it's a good performer as-is, though. thanks for the tip on pkginfo - I'm a Solaris n00b, so I'm easily confused by the way that Solaris handles things (much like I was way back in the day when I started doing AIX administration).
I'll have to give Fedora a try - I'm trying to get my girlfriend into UNIX (or UNIX-like OSes, if you prefer); she's willing enough, but I've got to find something that works before I set her loose. Thanks for the tip!
I was more referring to the Mac's multiple programming environments (Cocoa, in particular), rather than specific tools. I know Obj-C has been out for years, but aside from using it to build GNU/OpenStep applications, do devs use the language? It can be argued that Cocoa isn't any more 'proprietary' than Win32, and I wouldn't disagree with that, but compared to the standard libs used in your typical X/Windows-based UNIX or UNIX-like, i chose to use the term 'proprietary'. This was in response to the appropriateness of a UNIX label for OS X, after all;) I can't argue that Apple/NeXT developed Obj-C; obviously neither company was responsible for that. I do posit that NeXT was the biggest step in making the language 'popular', if such a term can be accurately applied to Obj C (no insult intended for Obj C), with Apple carrying the banner now. I shall have to poke around and see what other sorts of stuff has been developed with Obj C, aside from NeXT/Open/GNUStep. Perhaps I'm laboring under a huge misapprehension.
Argh, I tried to install GG on my system at home (athlon 64 x2) and on my Stinkpad T61 (intel core2duo). No go for either. It looked like the problem was that, in both instances, my DVD/CD drives are SATA. I don't know why this would be a problem, but it was. This was with the 32-bit version of GG, btw. OTOH, I installed Solaris 10 Dev Edition fine on both (x64 version). As a side note, while I love zfs, the Solaris directory structure and way of doing things is making me crazy. I'm going back to FreeBSD as soon as there's a RELEASE with stable zfs support. At least I, in my simple-minded state, can understand the way BSD works. Trying to figure out which directory software got installed into makes me want to gouge out my eyes. Why can't it just go into/usr/local? argh!
Well, NeXTStep, the operating system that actually ran on the NeXT cubes, was a UNIX-like OS (I can't remember if someone had paid for the UNIX branding or not). It was a BSD-based system that used a mach microkernel, had proprietary dev tools (objective-C), and Display PostScript. Insomuch as there isn't a UNIX operating system so much as a UNIX certification, one could make the claim it was UNIX (having derived a large portion of the source code for the OS from BSD). If it wasn't branded, technically it's only UNIX-like, so whether it's UNIX or UNIX-like would be your call on branding vs. functionality. OS X is, for all intents and purposes, a modern version of NeXT since it uses the same architecture - BSD/mach hybrid, proprietary dev tools, and the successor to DPS. I dunno. It's as much UNIX as Linux is, I'd say, which means when I'm having to argue with an original UNIX nerd (beard to his belt, balding with a ponytail, looking somewhat like the Comic Store Guy from the Simpsons) I make sure to use UNIX-like in reference to non-branded OSes. Everyone else gets the 'UNIX' label. YMMV.
I have really hit or miss luck with Evolution - sometimes i can get it working fine, other times it will not. I am probably wrong, but it seems that since Novell has had their grubbies all over it, the quality of the documentation has fallen somewhat; it's also possible I'm just less intelligent than I used to be. Regardless, I've tried it, and when I can get it set up right it works more or less ok (occasional crashes (a lot like trying to run Outlook under WINE, now that I think on it), but I'm not always successful in doing so. The point of this reply? Who knows.
Ugh, I remember those days (your comments about scheduling a meeting so the 5 people who needed to speak face-to-face could do so, etc.). As much as I hate Windows administration, I'm glad I'm out of the corporate bureaucracy. Not like the small companies don't try to do the same thing, of course, but it's a lot harder.
Now, if I could just find a smallish company, with 100% UNIX/UNIX-like infrastructure, that was interested in using the products that performed the best, not which ones were readily available.../daydream
Well, of course not - MS isn't making money if they're not selling you software. It's a lot like Intel and their 2-year turn-and-burn architecture upgrades. If you're not shelling out money for a new motherboard that has the latest Intel ICH to support the latest Intel processor, they're not making money off of you. It's stupefying that companies let themselves get into positions where a monopoly like Microsoft or Intel can dictate when products need to be upgraded; I chalk it up to expedience vs. actually verifying what's needed for a particular task.
I'm in that situation where I work - small company, 100% reliance on MS products, and the company isn't keen on upgrading to Vista. The CIO-equivalent was stunned when I told him it would be very hard indeed to get XP preloaded on our HP workstations after the middle of next year, so we needed to start looking at what it will take to integrate Vista now. Since the company didn't put desktop OSes on their Software Assurance plan, we're basically stuck with whatever the OEM throws on the disk. Ah, well....
I think the real problem is Outlook, not Exchange. Exchange would die a lonely death if it weren't for Outlook, as it's not particularly awesome as an SMTP/IMAP/POP server, and (at least as far as I can tell) only Outlook can use the Calendar/Public Folders feature of Exchange (discounting OWA). ...And this talk of no public folders in E2K7 is disturbing, as I just picked up an Opteron 1214-based server for our switch to E2k7. Guess I'll need to find another use for it...
I say it's flaky because I updated a test server to CURRENT, built zfs, set it up with SAMBA, and had several kernel panics while just doing light-load sort of stuff. I'm not saying I'm not glad zfs is available for FreeBSD (I tried it before I caved and went with Solaris 10), but I don't want to try to work something like this into a production system.
sure, throw on some old motherboard lying about, drop in some RAM that's been here since Windows 2000, and try getting those high-cap Ultra-133 PATA drives to work with that old ATA-33 controller. Sounds like a success story to me.
OP mentioned reliability. used components older than windows xp reliability, no matter how much a new system may be overkill.
er, no; well, perhaps, but not for specifying 1GB of RAM and a cheapie Sempron in this instance. If the OP needs to add functionality onto this machine, he's got a decent CPU and memory setup to work with. for less than $500 (which was the OP's target, I believe) why go with something that won't be capable of doing much else?
I second Solaris / OpenSolaris and zfs - zfs support on FreeBSD is pretty flaky, and there's not going to be kernel-mode linux support for zfs ever, unless a license change is made somewhere. Seriously, zfs is awesome.
Otherwise, it's pretty easy to build a DIY NAS for right around $500:
WD Caviar SE 16 500GB 3.0Gb SATA drives run about $105 each, so another $210 for drives, and you've got a DIY NAS for under $500. Still enough to pick up a cheapie Rosewill case to put it all in, or you can just mount it on a DIY rack using threaded rod and plywood base. You can get Solaris 10 Dev Edition free from Sun - they pay the media and postage cost, and it took me only two days to get a DVD. set up your NAS pool with zfs, and you're all set. If you need more storage in the future, you can add disks and extend the pool with no hassle whatsoever.
If you want to go REAL low-budget, though, and are just interested in having some sort of NAS device - I'd suggest you pick up an Airport Extreme, and attach an external 500/750/1000 GB hard disk or two through the USB connector. Easiest setup yet. The Airport Extreme runs about $180, and you can get 500GB USB/eSATA drives for $130 each. Total cost for the AE and two 500GB drives - $440. Plus you have 802.11a/b/g/n-draft, and three Gb ethernet ports.
I think you missed the part at the top of the article that said that some readers are saying they have the IMAP option, and some do not. I don't have it on any of my gmail accounts. I wonder how google is determining who gets the IMAP option? I was involved in the first round of testing for gmail, and yet I get dissed for this?! That's it - Windows LiveMail for me!!
no kidding - it's fucking amazing to see all of these low IDs posting. half of the time, when I decide to comment on something and end up dropping a flamebait response, i feel like i'm some sort of antediluvian emerging from my crypt to sow a little chaos before going beddie-bye again. Now i'm like some n00b cowering under the weight of everyone else's experience. it's really cool.
I don't remember anything about CnD, and I can't remember what led me to slashdot, either. probably something to do with linux, as I suspect I signed on when I was one of those bozos who was happy to run Yggdrasil or redhat 4.3 on my little 486sx, much to my ex-wife's chagrin (who wanted a computer that she could figure out how to work). damn. I must've been working at that stupid trucking company, too. the only IT guy in a company that had never had one before... *reminisces* hahaha, odd how things have come back around again - once again the only IT guy in a little company, and all that...
ugh, this is what Alzheimer's is like, people. fear growing old;)
Is it standing up, though? The Original Poster mentions that he/she knows that any computing device is going to be at least assembled with Chinese parts, but he'd prefer not to purchase a Lenovo laptop, since it's made in China. WTF? I fail to see the difference WRT components vs. assembly - if it's important that the device is made in China, then it should be important whether the components are from there, as well. In for a penny, in for a pound, don't you think? This sounds like pseudo-activist posturing to show how hip, cool, and socially-conscious the OP is. Picture him/her at his fave corporate-overlord coffee shop, chatting up his/her mates about how he/she REFUSED to buy a Thinkpad, because it was made in China, as he/she surfs on his/her new Toshiba, HP, Dell, MacBook, etc... to help 'Free Tibet'. is there a difference? If his/her convictions draw the line at 'assembled in', but 'assembly contains parts from' is ok, then doesn't that sound less like conviction and more like posturing to you? Sounds like bullshit to me.
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T61, in the interests of full disclosure;)
I'm with you - while one could argue that technically kirk and khan are not face-to-face, they are most assuredly engaged in a personal duel to the death. Khan's not just quoting "Moby Dick" to the Universe at large, he's directing those sentiments to Kirk himself. The climatic encounter between them was actually pretty exciting as well. All in all, good pacing and a pretty good story. Godsawful acting, though.
I saw this mentioned elsewhere in the discussion, and I can see the validity of the point. You might note that at no point did I critize Buesch's language, as I think his solutions were reasoned and more than fair. I felt that out of professional courtesy, a private notice would be more appropriate, but you and others are saying the GPL more or less does not allow this in situations such as this. True?
It's a shame this software license forces one to use such potentially-humiliating behavior to ensure compliance. It's tantamount to being pulled over and given a warning by a police officer for failure to signal a lane change, and then going home to find out that your name has been posted on the 1700 news along with your vehicle and license number, to make sure everyone knows what you've done, though it was not "intentional" and you were not issued a citation. It's a hostile way of dealing with inadvertent (innocent until proven guilty, even in the neofascist US) errors, it *forces* such situations to be resolved in a confrontational way, and in no way contributes to any sort of good-faith-effort between groups working on similar projects. Aside from the fact that it allows the developer to exercise control over how the final product, and any derived works from that product, are to be distributed I can see no benefit from such a software license. I would never relicense something I've written using BSD/ISC as GPL no matter what the circumstances, having seen the GPL "in action".
I followed the thread as the exchange developed between OBSD and Buesch, and I don't remember seeing this subject mentioned once. It's a valid point, though.
Don't be dense - I was suggesting a reasonable first step - not the end of the line. If after a private communique the offending material still remained, Buesch could still post to every public mailing list about the GPL violation, and further state that he made a good-faith attempt for the developer in question to remove the material privately. His message would still get out, and the public perception of Buesch would give people like de Raadt very little to complain about.
Slashdot Mirror
oi - the gargantuan winchester disk, the 8" floppy disk magazines, twinax, synchronous modems... We had one of the fast line printers (can't remember the model, damn it all) - it had the print band and could rip through greenbar like there was no tomorrow. Operating it with the cover up for any length of time was sure to cause hearing loss, but it was fast. I can remember when a tech had to come out and replace the winchester disk - that was quite the experience. and then reinstalling the OS, our software, and restoring the data from our tape backup - a long weekend project.
I really liked the S/36. Not fast, but rock solid. I remember wanting to put it in my garage when we replaced it with a little IBM RISC box (running the S/36 software in emulation), but my wife at the time nixed that idea.
er, to continue your analogy, then, asking a mechanic who is used to working on a particular brand of automobile is unlikely to give you much in the way of useful insight into other brands. Just like Slashdot, you're going to get the biases inherent in the opinion on the mechanic; whether they have any factual merit or not is irrelevant, as how would you know, unless you were likewise 'proficient'? /. - there aren't that many people here who can view things objectively, and say "platform x is easier to work with in this particular instance than platform y, and both cost more than platform z (though it's not initially configured to support what you need, it can be made to work with a little elbow grease)." It's linux fanbois vs. the *bsd fanbois vs. trolls, with the occasional helpful bit of information thrown in.
Speak to three different mechanics for three different makes, and you'll get three varying points of view. Same with
I've had no experience with Fortran, but a billion years ago when I got my start in IT I remember writing programs in RPG II for a System/36. I remember the joys of the program cycle, and struggling to remember the positional params without the 'punch-card' cheat sheet. Actually, in retrospect, it's kind of keen in a really nerdy way that RPG had that 'virtual punch-card' support, but I wasn't so hot for it at the time...
er, I think you may want to reopen the case and investigate, Dr. Holmes. Prohibition of alcohol was in effect from 1919 to 1933. During that time, marijuana was illegal only in the following states in the US: Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Iowa, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Montana. That leaves a large area of the country where marijuana was legal, and I don't think it was even covered under the Harrison Act (which taxed cocaine and opiates). That of course was back when the federal government couldn't do things such as declare drugs illegal - it was up to individual states to do so.
Offtopic? Fuck off, n00b moderators.... I related how GG would not run on a thinkpad t61 or on a new athlon 64 x2 system - how is this offtopic?
I was just being funny - my Thinkpad has been a good machine, actually. Battery life is decent, and I'm pleased with the performance overall. I'd like to get an 'Ultra' dock, so I could add a second hard disk and a PCIe graphics adapter to make it more like a desktop - with 2GB of RAM it's a good performer as-is, though.
thanks for the tip on pkginfo - I'm a Solaris n00b, so I'm easily confused by the way that Solaris handles things (much like I was way back in the day when I started doing AIX administration).
I'll have to give Fedora a try - I'm trying to get my girlfriend into UNIX (or UNIX-like OSes, if you prefer); she's willing enough, but I've got to find something that works before I set her loose. Thanks for the tip!
I was more referring to the Mac's multiple programming environments (Cocoa, in particular), rather than specific tools. I know Obj-C has been out for years, but aside from using it to build GNU/OpenStep applications, do devs use the language? It can be argued that Cocoa isn't any more 'proprietary' than Win32, and I wouldn't disagree with that, but compared to the standard libs used in your typical X/Windows-based UNIX or UNIX-like, i chose to use the term 'proprietary'. This was in response to the appropriateness of a UNIX label for OS X, after all ;) I can't argue that Apple/NeXT developed Obj-C; obviously neither company was responsible for that. I do posit that NeXT was the biggest step in making the language 'popular', if such a term can be accurately applied to Obj C (no insult intended for Obj C), with Apple carrying the banner now. I shall have to poke around and see what other sorts of stuff has been developed with Obj C, aside from NeXT/Open/GNUStep. Perhaps I'm laboring under a huge misapprehension.
Argh, I tried to install GG on my system at home (athlon 64 x2) and on my Stinkpad T61 (intel core2duo). No go for either. It looked like the problem was that, in both instances, my DVD/CD drives are SATA. I don't know why this would be a problem, but it was. This was with the 32-bit version of GG, btw. OTOH, I installed Solaris 10 Dev Edition fine on both (x64 version). As a side note, while I love zfs, the Solaris directory structure and way of doing things is making me crazy. I'm going back to FreeBSD as soon as there's a RELEASE with stable zfs support. At least I, in my simple-minded state, can understand the way BSD works. Trying to figure out which directory software got installed into makes me want to gouge out my eyes. Why can't it just go into /usr/local? argh!
Well, NeXTStep, the operating system that actually ran on the NeXT cubes, was a UNIX-like OS (I can't remember if someone had paid for the UNIX branding or not). It was a BSD-based system that used a mach microkernel, had proprietary dev tools (objective-C), and Display PostScript. Insomuch as there isn't a UNIX operating system so much as a UNIX certification, one could make the claim it was UNIX (having derived a large portion of the source code for the OS from BSD). If it wasn't branded, technically it's only UNIX-like, so whether it's UNIX or UNIX-like would be your call on branding vs. functionality. OS X is, for all intents and purposes, a modern version of NeXT since it uses the same architecture - BSD/mach hybrid, proprietary dev tools, and the successor to DPS. I dunno. It's as much UNIX as Linux is, I'd say, which means when I'm having to argue with an original UNIX nerd (beard to his belt, balding with a ponytail, looking somewhat like the Comic Store Guy from the Simpsons) I make sure to use UNIX-like in reference to non-branded OSes. Everyone else gets the 'UNIX' label. YMMV.
I have really hit or miss luck with Evolution - sometimes i can get it working fine, other times it will not. I am probably wrong, but it seems that since Novell has had their grubbies all over it, the quality of the documentation has fallen somewhat; it's also possible I'm just less intelligent than I used to be. Regardless, I've tried it, and when I can get it set up right it works more or less ok (occasional crashes (a lot like trying to run Outlook under WINE, now that I think on it), but I'm not always successful in doing so. The point of this reply? Who knows.
Ugh, I remember those days (your comments about scheduling a meeting so the 5 people who needed to speak face-to-face could do so, etc.). As much as I hate Windows administration, I'm glad I'm out of the corporate bureaucracy. Not like the small companies don't try to do the same thing, of course, but it's a lot harder.
/daydream
Now, if I could just find a smallish company, with 100% UNIX/UNIX-like infrastructure, that was interested in using the products that performed the best, not which ones were readily available...
Well, of course not - MS isn't making money if they're not selling you software. It's a lot like Intel and their 2-year turn-and-burn architecture upgrades. If you're not shelling out money for a new motherboard that has the latest Intel ICH to support the latest Intel processor, they're not making money off of you. It's stupefying that companies let themselves get into positions where a monopoly like Microsoft or Intel can dictate when products need to be upgraded; I chalk it up to expedience vs. actually verifying what's needed for a particular task.
I'm in that situation where I work - small company, 100% reliance on MS products, and the company isn't keen on upgrading to Vista. The CIO-equivalent was stunned when I told him it would be very hard indeed to get XP preloaded on our HP workstations after the middle of next year, so we needed to start looking at what it will take to integrate Vista now. Since the company didn't put desktop OSes on their Software Assurance plan, we're basically stuck with whatever the OEM throws on the disk. Ah, well....
I think the real problem is Outlook, not Exchange. Exchange would die a lonely death if it weren't for Outlook, as it's not particularly awesome as an SMTP/IMAP/POP server, and (at least as far as I can tell) only Outlook can use the Calendar/Public Folders feature of Exchange (discounting OWA).
...And this talk of no public folders in E2K7 is disturbing, as I just picked up an Opteron 1214-based server for our switch to E2k7. Guess I'll need to find another use for it...
I say it's flaky because I updated a test server to CURRENT, built zfs, set it up with SAMBA, and had several kernel panics while just doing light-load sort of stuff. I'm not saying I'm not glad zfs is available for FreeBSD (I tried it before I caved and went with Solaris 10), but I don't want to try to work something like this into a production system.
sure, throw on some old motherboard lying about, drop in some RAM that's been here since Windows 2000, and try getting those high-cap Ultra-133 PATA drives to work with that old ATA-33 controller. Sounds like a success story to me.
OP mentioned reliability. used components older than windows xp reliability, no matter how much a new system may be overkill.
er, no; well, perhaps, but not for specifying 1GB of RAM and a cheapie Sempron in this instance. If the OP needs to add functionality onto this machine, he's got a decent CPU and memory setup to work with. for less than $500 (which was the OP's target, I believe) why go with something that won't be capable of doing much else?
Otherwise, it's pretty easy to build a DIY NAS for right around $500:
WD Caviar SE 16 500GB 3.0Gb SATA drives run about $105 each, so another $210 for drives, and you've got a DIY NAS for under $500. Still enough to pick up a cheapie Rosewill case to put it all in, or you can just mount it on a DIY rack using threaded rod and plywood base.
You can get Solaris 10 Dev Edition free from Sun - they pay the media and postage cost, and it took me only two days to get a DVD. set up your NAS pool with zfs, and you're all set. If you need more storage in the future, you can add disks and extend the pool with no hassle whatsoever.
If you want to go REAL low-budget, though, and are just interested in having some sort of NAS device - I'd suggest you pick up an Airport Extreme, and attach an external 500/750/1000 GB hard disk or two through the USB connector. Easiest setup yet. The Airport Extreme runs about $180, and you can get 500GB USB/eSATA drives for $130 each. Total cost for the AE and two 500GB drives - $440. Plus you have 802.11a/b/g/n-draft, and three Gb ethernet ports.
I think you missed the part at the top of the article that said that some readers are saying they have the IMAP option, and some do not. I don't have it on any of my gmail accounts.
I wonder how google is determining who gets the IMAP option? I was involved in the first round of testing for gmail, and yet I get dissed for this?! That's it - Windows LiveMail for me!!
no kidding - it's fucking amazing to see all of these low IDs posting. half of the time, when I decide to comment on something and end up dropping a flamebait response, i feel like i'm some sort of antediluvian emerging from my crypt to sow a little chaos before going beddie-bye again. Now i'm like some n00b cowering under the weight of everyone else's experience. it's really cool.
;)
I don't remember anything about CnD, and I can't remember what led me to slashdot, either. probably something to do with linux, as I suspect I signed on when I was one of those bozos who was happy to run Yggdrasil or redhat 4.3 on my little 486sx, much to my ex-wife's chagrin (who wanted a computer that she could figure out how to work). damn. I must've been working at that stupid trucking company, too. the only IT guy in a company that had never had one before... *reminisces* hahaha, odd how things have come back around again - once again the only IT guy in a little company, and all that...
ugh, this is what Alzheimer's is like, people. fear growing old
Is it standing up, though? The Original Poster mentions that he/she knows that any computing device is going to be at least assembled with Chinese parts, but he'd prefer not to purchase a Lenovo laptop, since it's made in China. WTF? I fail to see the difference WRT components vs. assembly - if it's important that the device is made in China, then it should be important whether the components are from there, as well. In for a penny, in for a pound, don't you think?
;)
This sounds like pseudo-activist posturing to show how hip, cool, and socially-conscious the OP is. Picture him/her at his fave corporate-overlord coffee shop, chatting up his/her mates about how he/she REFUSED to buy a Thinkpad, because it was made in China, as he/she surfs on his/her new Toshiba, HP, Dell, MacBook, etc... to help 'Free Tibet'. is there a difference?
If his/her convictions draw the line at 'assembled in', but 'assembly contains parts from' is ok, then doesn't that sound less like conviction and more like posturing to you? Sounds like bullshit to me.
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T61, in the interests of full disclosure
I'm with you - while one could argue that technically kirk and khan are not face-to-face, they are most assuredly engaged in a personal duel to the death. Khan's not just quoting "Moby Dick" to the Universe at large, he's directing those sentiments to Kirk himself. The climatic encounter between them was actually pretty exciting as well. All in all, good pacing and a pretty good story. Godsawful acting, though.
I saw this mentioned elsewhere in the discussion, and I can see the validity of the point. You might note that at no point did I critize Buesch's language, as I think his solutions were reasoned and more than fair. I felt that out of professional courtesy, a private notice would be more appropriate, but you and others are saying the GPL more or less does not allow this in situations such as this. True?
It's a shame this software license forces one to use such potentially-humiliating behavior to ensure compliance. It's tantamount to being pulled over and given a warning by a police officer for failure to signal a lane change, and then going home to find out that your name has been posted on the 1700 news along with your vehicle and license number, to make sure everyone knows what you've done, though it was not "intentional" and you were not issued a citation.
It's a hostile way of dealing with inadvertent (innocent until proven guilty, even in the neofascist US) errors, it *forces* such situations to be resolved in a confrontational way, and in no way contributes to any sort of good-faith-effort between groups working on similar projects. Aside from the fact that it allows the developer to exercise control over how the final product, and any derived works from that product, are to be distributed I can see no benefit from such a software license. I would never relicense something I've written using BSD/ISC as GPL no matter what the circumstances, having seen the GPL "in action".
I followed the thread as the exchange developed between OBSD and Buesch, and I don't remember seeing this subject mentioned once. It's a valid point, though.
Don't be dense - I was suggesting a reasonable first step - not the end of the line. If after a private communique the offending material still remained, Buesch could still post to every public mailing list about the GPL violation, and further state that he made a good-faith attempt for the developer in question to remove the material privately. His message would still get out, and the public perception of Buesch would give people like de Raadt very little to complain about.