1) Non-free codecs and some applications that you cited above aren't there not "because of religious beliefs" (whatever that means)
You should perhaps read the Ubuntu promise to customers:
Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications; we encourage you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on.
That sort of says it all.
2) With one package installation those problems are solved.
That is not true. Not even close to being true.
Out of the box Feisty Fawn Firefox will not pass the Java test (that's one download), will not play a Flash movie (that's another download), will not play an mp3 (that's several other downloads) and will not play a commercial DVD (that's a couple more downloads).
The fact that all these different downloads have to be found and installed is not intuitive for the new user or Windows user.
I have been a Linux user for over 10 years and the first thing I found out is I couldn't just drop into a console and build and install these things. I had to learn the Ubunto way.
Why not a page prominently displayed during installation asking if these apps/codecs should be installed and have a big button to press saying YES!
No, I see this as primarily a political decision, if you like.
Until Ubuntu takes some sort of affirmative action to help it's new users play their mp3s and watch their DVDs we will continue to see the same kind of review as we have seen here.
Ubuntu right out of the box or even freshly installed can't play mp3s, Windows media files, DVDs and a whole host of other protocols that are common to the 'Net savy Windows luser.
This is because Ubuntu refuses to include these protocols because of religious beliefs that all multimedia protocols should be free and even makes it difficult to find and load them from alternate sources.
Well done Ubuntu! You are making absolutely certain that any new user will be frightened away from your OS because of your timid approach reality.
When I setup an Ubuntu box for a client, I immediately connect to sources for all the non-free codecs and applications (Adobe Flash & Acroreader, SUN Java, all the Microsoft data formats and even install Wine for some proprietary applications as required).
I then install MPlayer and SMPlayer and adjust the OS to make these the default players for almost all video formats because they blow what Ubuntu thinks is cool right out of the water when it comes to features and stability - hear that Mark?
There is little point trying to sell the world your fantastic product when it can't even play an MP3 or DVD - how useful is that.
I blame Ubuntu for not adjusting to reality in this case - beautiful operating system but almost useless out of the box.
As enjoyable as it has been, this will be my last post on this thread.
"I will have as little to do with servers as I can. Not my cup of tea I guess."
Understood.
"I really wish MS isn't the way it is today"
Actually, Microsoft is a lot less obnoxious than they were 10 years ago. Microsoft is still the pariah of IT but now they have to be much more careful because so many people and organizations are watching them like hawks.
"if there is one good thing MS has done, it's involved gaming."
Well just keep in mind that Microsoft is in competition with itself in the gaming business. The day may come when MS may decide it doesn't want people playing games on its OS but rather on it's game platform.
"I have thought about using Wine and other software but of course you lose compatibility and performance."
There is a marginal performace loss using Wine but there is an added benefit of stability.
And you are correct, nVidia creates excellent drivers for their video cards, but then they sell 1000s of really expensive video cards ($2500+) for Linux graphics workstations (where two are required) which are the heart of the video editing and CGI industry.
FYI my favorite distro is still Slackware after all these years. Download an ISO and try it if you are curious about Old School Linux with leading edge technology.
Take care and lots of luck with your future - IT has been very good to me over the last 20 years, and fun as well.
I am posting now from a Tecra 8200 (1gig CPU 256meg memory) running Slackware 12 (full install). Slackware found and installed drivers for everything including the wireless except the winmodem. I understand there is a Linux driver for the winmodem but I am not going to bother.
I can easily cut the install down to about 500 megs including OpenOffice that will have everthing I want and room to grow.
I can tell you I have no probs playing most AVIs and Flash movies (YouTube and CNN) and can even play most streaming MOVs and Microsoft streaming video using GZine.
I could probably speed some things up by using a more efficient desktop like XFCe but frankly I am too lazy.
There are lots of cut down versions of Slackware already optimized for the less MHz enabled but I am pleased the Asus EeePC 701 does include 512meg of memory - that should me more than enough for the foreseeable LINUX future.
I disagree that installing XP will actually be a plausable solution with an 8gig Flash drive - it would be filled in a matter of weeks with typical useage. And in the end, what would be gained? It won't be long before Microsoft suspends sales of XP in order to move all the sheep to Vista. Microsoft has also made it clear that there is a limit to the number of different platforms that existing XP can be installed on.
I am going to buy a couple just to see what they got and what I can do with them. It will take exactly 30 minutes to install Slackware 12 from a 1gig USB memory stick.
"I don't know where you are getting this 10 000 files idea from, I'm sure its an exageration. I currently have 3 000 (260MB) in mine."
Yes it was an exageration, the point being that a brand new fresh XP install creates a nest of files (1000s) that defies explanation - I just love the logic security and neatness of Unix/Linux/home system compared to XP,
"I've tried fedora and Ubuntu on my PC, but have had issues with them, mainly driver problems, but I guess thats expected."
I have also had driver/hardware issues installing XP - I can't count the number of times I have had to resort to using a Linux live CD in order to identify and test hardware and then begin trying to find a current XP driver. I recently had a HP desktop running a P4 2.4 GHz absolutely refuse to load the sound driver from either HP or Microsoft - the loader kept complaining that a Windows hi-def audio function was missing. I contacted both HP and Windows and No Joy (HP wanted to replace the motherboard 'it was out of warranty') and Microsoft kept sending me back to HP. Long story short, running a Slax Live CD confirmed the sound was working and quite frankly loaded drivers for everything without having to go looking. I ended up just installing a $12 sound card and taped over the onboard sound connectors.
"I see no reason to abandon XP for linux"
It's about mindshare - Microsoft has won if you use Windows, install Windows for friends, develop for Windows, work and play with Windows.
I used to be a DOS/Windows IT admin who kept almost a hundred desktops and network services up and running in the early 90s - talk about job security! I used to deal with Microsoft almost every day by phone and fax and sometimes in person. The money was great and my clients would have me out for dinners and parties - my services were respected and appreciated. The problem was, No Job Satisfaction! And I was being worn out running all over town night and day fighting fires.
I had no personal life, my youngest daughter would complain bitterly when my beeper would go off in the evening or on the weekend. Do not get me wrong, the money was great and I had total job security. Windows would crash and regularly trash the filesystem and I would re-install and restore - that was my job.
I started deploying Linux in 1995 quite by accident - I won't go into details but I needed a networked fax server for a score of W95 desktops and Microsoft and WinFAX had let me down once again. Out of desperation I bought and installed a Slackware book with CD and working over a weekend created a fax server that didn't crash under load. I also had to learn a dozen different configuration techniques - every app and utility had it's own configuration text file and methodology. It almost drove me mad until I saw it all working. Over a period of weeks I fine tuned and played with that machine (486SX 25MHz with 8 meg of memory) until it did exactly what the client wanted.
I had to unlearn some bad habits and had to train the staff NOT to reboot the Linux server if there was a problem. In the end that fax server worked continuously for over two years until a HD failure brought it down. I had NEVER had a Microsoft server or desktop last a week let alone a year without rebooting, including W98 and NT4.
I also witnessed first hand how Microsoft reacted to one of their own installing Linux on what they considered their territory - you would not believe the conversations I had with my MS contacts and reps. They literally wanted me to rip out the Linux fax server and try a new NT4 fax system they were working on. I refused and things started to turn decidedly chilly. My regular phone calls and faxes requesting help or information started to go unanswered. Recommendations for my services started to go to others in my region - Microsoft was starting to freeze me out.
By 2000 I had phased out all new installations of Microsoft products. When I was asked what the problem was by a field rep I explained
I can afford to buy any software I want but I choose Linux and Open Source.
In case you haven't heard, Microsoft is a horrendous predatory that is working to destroy free choice. Why would I want to support a company like that?
Only XP essentials? Like what? No 10,000+ files nested under Documents?
How do you keep it updated?
Who supports it? Certainley not Microsoft.
And in the end, why would I spend all that money for XP when Linux is superior?
Don't believe what you read about the small number of Linux desktop users - its not true. Microsoft believes that by trivializing Linux that it can discourage Linux's continued growth.
The Asus eeePC 701 is just another step forward for Desktop Linux.
Here we have a brand new low cost platform that comes preinstalled with Linux. All the ney-sayers are simply yelling sour grapes because Microsoft will not be able to field anything like this in North America or Europe in the foreseeable future.
I am going to buy two for my grandkids - they will love it. They'll be able to play music and TV off the home wireless network. They can VoIP with video using Skype. They can read books from Project Gutenberg. They can message and chat to their hearts content. Hey, they may even do some homework and learn something, Who Knows!
For me, I can add a 22" LCD monitor and create a wireless multimedia node for the bedroom. I can also use it as a smart thin client with USB keyboard & mouse and some speakers.
Add some external storage like a 2.5" 120 gig HD and some earbuds and I can listen to music or avi's until the batteries wear down. I can store all my contact information and write some emails, Skype some friends (VoIP with video), message, play games and chat for hours away from my desktop computer.
This machine is great and I for one am going to promote it to all my friends including the ones that are afraid of computers.
What a great standby machine!
Just so you know, I have 3 laptop computers 'Dell Inspiron 5100 - big, hot and heavy', 'Toshiba Tecra 8200 - smaller, lighter but tied to the power supply now' and 'Dell Latitude CPx - nice but slow, also tied to the power adapter'. These machines, for one reason or another, are unsuitable for newbs and kids whereas the Asus 3ePC looks perfect.
I have no problem with the screen layout the way it is - there are speakers on either side of the screen and a microphone and camera there as well.
All that power, connectivity (WiFi b/g, Ethernet 10/100, modem and USB), excellent memory - 512 meg, sufficient storage with USB addons as required, stereo speakers, microphone, web camera, 3 hours on battery AND it comes with an OS with a FULL office suite, Firefox, Skype, email and lots of applications!
All for $199!
LOOK OUT MICROSOFT!!!
This is the killer product Linux needs to get it's foot in the door - this machines will sell in all the usual outlets plus drug stores, gift shops and grocery markets if promoted properly and Asus may be the guys to do it.
Yep - put XP on that thing and it will be a pig with no room left for anything else. With a light-weight Linux, perhaps Ubunto or Kubunto or even Slax, and the user may really haved something.
I am really getting tired of reading how wonderful Vista is when what I have seen is stupid, invasive and problematic.
Vista is NOT that BEAUTIFUL - I have seen it's equal in Mac & Linux and have done for years.
Second, it is a battle to get it installed and running. Many drivers don't work or are subject to mysterious crashes. Many promisted features do not work as advertised and don't even get me started on getting a contemporary colour multipurpose, fax/printer/scanner/copier working properly... Hah!
When all is said and done, after paying all that money Microsoft support SUCKS!!! Wanna spend a few hours on the phone talking to IDIOTS who want you to re-install and then admit the problem has not been resolved OR blaming the vendor.
Vista is an overpriced, underperforming, under supported TURD and I am recommending all my clients to stay clear for at least a year if they INSIST on upgrading to Vista.
Now if bullet head fantizises about Vista being a beatiful women, the guy REALLY needs to get laid!
Slashdot Mirror
1) Non-free codecs and some applications that you cited above aren't there not "because of religious beliefs" (whatever that means)
You should perhaps read the Ubuntu promise to customers:
Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications; we encourage you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on.
That sort of says it all.
2) With one package installation those problems are solved.
That is not true. Not even close to being true.
Out of the box Feisty Fawn Firefox will not pass the Java test (that's one download), will not play a Flash movie (that's another download), will not play an mp3 (that's several other downloads) and will not play a commercial DVD (that's a couple more downloads).
The fact that all these different downloads have to be found and installed is not intuitive for the new user or Windows user.
I have been a Linux user for over 10 years and the first thing I found out is I couldn't just drop into a console and build and install these things. I had to learn the Ubunto way.
Why not a page prominently displayed during installation asking if these apps/codecs should be installed and have a big button to press saying YES!
No, I see this as primarily a political decision, if you like.
Until Ubuntu takes some sort of affirmative action to help it's new users play their mp3s and watch their DVDs we will continue to see the same kind of review as we have seen here.
Ubuntu right out of the box or even freshly installed can't play mp3s, Windows media files, DVDs and a whole host of other protocols that are common to the 'Net savy Windows luser.
This is because Ubuntu refuses to include these protocols because of religious beliefs that all multimedia protocols should be free and even makes it difficult to find and load them from alternate sources.
Well done Ubuntu! You are making absolutely certain that any new user will be frightened away from your OS because of your timid approach reality.
When I setup an Ubuntu box for a client, I immediately connect to sources for all the non-free codecs and applications (Adobe Flash & Acroreader, SUN Java, all the Microsoft data formats and even install Wine for some proprietary applications as required).
I then install MPlayer and SMPlayer and adjust the OS to make these the default players for almost all video formats because they blow what Ubuntu thinks is cool right out of the water when it comes to features and stability - hear that Mark?
There is little point trying to sell the world your fantastic product when it can't even play an MP3 or DVD - how useful is that.
I blame Ubuntu for not adjusting to reality in this case - beautiful operating system but almost useless out of the box.
'I'm not dead yet' Ed
Probably not a good idean to say that out loud three times quickly in front of the kids.
Undead Ed
It sounds like Microsoft Vista II.
Undead Ed
As enjoyable as it has been, this will be my last post on this thread.
"I will have as little to do with servers as I can. Not my cup of tea I guess."
Understood.
"I really wish MS isn't the way it is today"
Actually, Microsoft is a lot less obnoxious than they were 10 years ago. Microsoft is still the pariah of IT but now they have to be much more careful because so many people and organizations are watching them like hawks.
"if there is one good thing MS has done, it's involved gaming."
Well just keep in mind that Microsoft is in competition with itself in the gaming business. The day may come when MS may decide it doesn't want people playing games on its OS but rather on it's game platform.
"I have thought about using Wine and other software but of course you lose compatibility and performance."
There is a marginal performace loss using Wine but there is an added benefit of stability.
And you are correct, nVidia creates excellent drivers for their video cards, but then they sell 1000s of really expensive video cards ($2500+) for Linux graphics workstations (where two are required) which are the heart of the video editing and CGI industry.
FYI my favorite distro is still Slackware after all these years. Download an ISO and try it if you are curious about Old School Linux with leading edge technology.
Take care and lots of luck with your future - IT has been very good to me over the last 20 years, and fun as well.
Undead Ed
I am posting now from a Tecra 8200 (1gig CPU 256meg memory) running Slackware 12 (full install). Slackware found and installed drivers for everything including the wireless except the winmodem. I understand there is a Linux driver for the winmodem but I am not going to bother.
I can easily cut the install down to about 500 megs including OpenOffice that will have everthing I want and room to grow.
I can tell you I have no probs playing most AVIs and Flash movies (YouTube and CNN) and can even play most streaming MOVs and Microsoft streaming video using GZine.
I could probably speed some things up by using a more efficient desktop like XFCe but frankly I am too lazy.
There are lots of cut down versions of Slackware already optimized for the less MHz enabled but I am pleased the Asus EeePC 701 does include 512meg of memory - that should me more than enough for the foreseeable LINUX future.
I disagree that installing XP will actually be a plausable solution with an 8gig Flash drive - it would be filled in a matter of weeks with typical useage. And in the end, what would be gained? It won't be long before Microsoft suspends sales of XP in order to move all the sheep to Vista. Microsoft has also made it clear that there is a limit to the number of different platforms that existing XP can be installed on.
I am going to buy a couple just to see what they got and what I can do with them. It will take exactly 30 minutes to install Slackware 12 from a 1gig USB memory stick.
Thanks for your reply.
Undead Ed
"I don't know where you are getting this 10 000 files idea from, I'm sure its an exageration. I currently have 3 000 (260MB) in mine."
Yes it was an exageration, the point being that a brand new fresh XP install creates a nest of files (1000s) that defies explanation - I just love the logic security and neatness of Unix/Linux /home system compared to XP,
"I've tried fedora and Ubuntu on my PC, but have had issues with them, mainly driver problems, but I guess thats expected."
I have also had driver/hardware issues installing XP - I can't count the number of times I have had to resort to using a Linux live CD in order to identify and test hardware and then begin trying to find a current XP driver. I recently had a HP desktop running a P4 2.4 GHz absolutely refuse to load the sound driver from either HP or Microsoft - the loader kept complaining that a Windows hi-def audio function was missing. I contacted both HP and Windows and No Joy (HP wanted to replace the motherboard 'it was out of warranty') and Microsoft kept sending me back to HP. Long story short, running a Slax Live CD confirmed the sound was working and quite frankly loaded drivers for everything without having to go looking. I ended up just installing a $12 sound card and taped over the onboard sound connectors.
"I see no reason to abandon XP for linux"
It's about mindshare - Microsoft has won if you use Windows, install Windows for friends, develop for Windows, work and play with Windows.
I used to be a DOS/Windows IT admin who kept almost a hundred desktops and network services up and running in the early 90s - talk about job security! I used to deal with Microsoft almost every day by phone and fax and sometimes in person. The money was great and my clients would have me out for dinners and parties - my services were respected and appreciated. The problem was, No Job Satisfaction! And I was being worn out running all over town night and day fighting fires.
I had no personal life, my youngest daughter would complain bitterly when my beeper would go off in the evening or on the weekend. Do not get me wrong, the money was great and I had total job security. Windows would crash and regularly trash the filesystem and I would re-install and restore - that was my job.
I started deploying Linux in 1995 quite by accident - I won't go into details but I needed a networked fax server for a score of W95 desktops and Microsoft and WinFAX had let me down once again. Out of desperation I bought and installed a Slackware book with CD and working over a weekend created a fax server that didn't crash under load. I also had to learn a dozen different configuration techniques - every app and utility had it's own configuration text file and methodology. It almost drove me mad until I saw it all working. Over a period of weeks I fine tuned and played with that machine (486SX 25MHz with 8 meg of memory) until it did exactly what the client wanted.
I had to unlearn some bad habits and had to train the staff NOT to reboot the Linux server if there was a problem. In the end that fax server worked continuously for over two years until a HD failure brought it down. I had NEVER had a Microsoft server or desktop last a week let alone a year without rebooting, including W98 and NT4.
I also witnessed first hand how Microsoft reacted to one of their own installing Linux on what they considered their territory - you would not believe the conversations I had with my MS contacts and reps. They literally wanted me to rip out the Linux fax server and try a new NT4 fax system they were working on. I refused and things started to turn decidedly chilly. My regular phone calls and faxes requesting help or information started to go unanswered. Recommendations for my services started to go to others in my region - Microsoft was starting to freeze me out.
By 2000 I had phased out all new installations of Microsoft products. When I was asked what the problem was by a field rep I explained
Stuck with Linux? Are you kidding?
I can afford to buy any software I want but I choose Linux and Open Source.
In case you haven't heard, Microsoft is a horrendous predatory that is working to destroy free choice. Why would I want to support a company like that?
Only XP essentials? Like what? No 10,000+ files nested under Documents?
How do you keep it updated?
Who supports it? Certainley not Microsoft.
And in the end, why would I spend all that money for XP when Linux is superior?
Don't believe what you read about the small number of Linux desktop users - its not true. Microsoft believes that by trivializing Linux that it can discourage Linux's continued growth.
The Asus eeePC 701 is just another step forward for Desktop Linux.
Sorry dude, I am all about free choice.
Undead Ed
Here we have a brand new low cost platform that comes preinstalled with Linux. All the ney-sayers are simply yelling sour grapes because Microsoft will not be able to field anything like this in North America or Europe in the foreseeable future.
I am going to buy two for my grandkids - they will love it. They'll be able to play music and TV off the home wireless network. They can VoIP with video using Skype. They can read books from Project Gutenberg. They can message and chat to their hearts content. Hey, they may even do some homework and learn something, Who Knows!
For me, I can add a 22" LCD monitor and create a wireless multimedia node for the bedroom. I can also use it as a smart thin client with USB keyboard & mouse and some speakers.
Add some external storage like a 2.5" 120 gig HD and some earbuds and I can listen to music or avi's until the batteries wear down. I can store all my contact information and write some emails, Skype some friends (VoIP with video), message, play games and chat for hours away from my desktop computer.
This machine is great and I for one am going to promote it to all my friends including the ones that are afraid of computers.
What a great standby machine!
Just so you know, I have 3 laptop computers 'Dell Inspiron 5100 - big, hot and heavy', 'Toshiba Tecra 8200 - smaller, lighter but tied to the power supply now' and 'Dell Latitude CPx - nice but slow, also tied to the power adapter'. These machines, for one reason or another, are unsuitable for newbs and kids whereas the Asus 3ePC looks perfect.
I have no problem with the screen layout the way it is - there are speakers on either side of the screen and a microphone and camera there as well.
All that power, connectivity (WiFi b/g, Ethernet 10/100, modem and USB), excellent memory - 512 meg, sufficient storage with USB addons as required, stereo speakers, microphone, web camera, 3 hours on battery AND it comes with an OS with a FULL office suite, Firefox, Skype, email and lots of applications!
All for $199!
LOOK OUT MICROSOFT!!!
This is the killer product Linux needs to get it's foot in the door - this machines will sell in all the usual outlets plus drug stores, gift shops and grocery markets if promoted properly and Asus may be the guys to do it.
Yep - put XP on that thing and it will be a pig with no room left for anything else. With a light-weight Linux, perhaps Ubunto or Kubunto or even Slax, and the user may really haved something.
This is just my two-bits but I am excited.
Undead Ed
I am really getting tired of reading how wonderful Vista is when what I have seen is stupid, invasive and problematic.
Vista is NOT that BEAUTIFUL - I have seen it's equal in Mac & Linux and have done for years.
Second, it is a battle to get it installed and running. Many drivers don't work or are subject to mysterious crashes. Many promisted features do not work as advertised and don't even get me started on getting a contemporary colour multipurpose, fax/printer/scanner/copier working properly... Hah!
When all is said and done, after paying all that money Microsoft support SUCKS!!! Wanna spend a few hours on the phone talking to IDIOTS who want you to re-install and then admit the problem has not been resolved OR blaming the vendor.
Vista is an overpriced, underperforming, under supported TURD and I am recommending all my clients to stay clear for at least a year if they INSIST on upgrading to Vista.
Now if bullet head fantizises about Vista being a beatiful women, the guy REALLY needs to get laid!
Random Dude