Your underlying assumption, though, is that the "hoops" you're jumping through aren't fun. If a game isn't fun until you unlock a bunch of stuff then it's a bad game. It's not a bad game because of the unlockables; it's a bad game because the gameplay isn't fun. For example, I haven't finished unlocking everything in Burnout Revenge. If I wasn't enjoying myself and somehow knew that later in the game there was awesome stuff going on, then that would piss me off. Since I am, though, it doesn't bother me a bit that I can't jump instantly into the level 10 grand prix with the fastest car possible.
I guess it's not so much that I disagree with the premise that there are too many games that rely on unlockable content to string people along through lackluster gameplay (though I haven't played any recently - that's what I use game reviews for). I just consider it a more general problem of developers making lousy games, unlockable content or not.
If you remember, there used to be two DVD formats too, and each required a different player.
That's both true and untrue. DIVX (not to be confused with DivX) was not a separate physical format from DVD. It was a [software] variation of the DVD format which could not be played in standard DVD players, but DVDs would play just fine in all DIVX players. The truth, though, is that DIVX was never really a competitor to [open] DVD, even for the short time (less than a year) it was being sold.
You can find more information about DIVX over yonder.
As a sidenote, I thought I'd mention that two of the three big studios that released movies exclusively on DIVX (while it existed) are now Blu-Ray exclusive: Disney and Fox. That seems like a good sign for HD-DVD.;)
Well then, where the "frig" are these mid-range Blu-Ray drives? You'd think that "friggin'" Best Buy would be catering to the mid range, yet they have two $1,000 Blu-Ray players listed as "coming soon" and NO "friggin" indications of any "friggin" mid-range models coming soon. Find me one MSRP of an upcoming Blu-Ray player under $999.99 and I will shut the "frig" up.
You can believe that what you're saying is a fact, but I tend only to believe facts.
I'm aware that there are "fancy" DVD players still selling for more premium prices, but the bottom line is that Blu-Ray players are debuting at $1,000 and HD-DVD players are debuting at $500. Further, if you take a look at the Toshiba HD-DVD player (the one I've actually looked at carefully - I haven't researched the RCA HD-DVD player) you'll find that it has the kinds of bells and whistles which budget manufacturers cut out, most notably the decoding of the new Dolby Digital and DTS audio formats.
I've said it before: I expect that before next summer there are going to be HD-DVD players under $300. I don't get the same impression from the Blu-Ray camp. Price is a critical factor and, so far, the advantage goes to HD-DVD.
As for an FPS...you've got to be kidding. I mean, I can understand wanting to shoot someone in the fucking head, the blood, the brains, the end of another useless life...particularly after your post.
Moreover, Blu-ray has unimaginable support by movie companies, because of the very same reason everyone hates Sony and everyone hates the MPAA. The Blu-ray format has more DRM and other copy-protection than HD-DVD does.
a) As someone else pointed out, the copy protection/DRM is the same on both formats. Both formats even have the same slate of compression options (WMV, MPEG, etc.).
b) What do you mean by "unimaginable support?" The last stats I saw (based on how many movies are controlled by each company) actually put the HD-DVD studios (taking into account the studios supporting both formats) at a little over 50% of the total US movie "catalog."
I think this fight is going to be won by whoever can get their players down below $200 first. Considering the debut Blu-Ray players (which, of course, haven't debuted yet) are going to be $1,000 while two HD-DVD players are already on the market at $500, it seems like HD-DVD has the advantage there. Once one of the formats breaks that $200 mark, you'll see the one-format studios jumping ship in no time...
If Universal Pictures is the only media house supporting HD-DVD, it does seem a bit strange that Warner Home Video Inc. and Paramount Home Entertainment are also members of a group promoting HD-DVD...
If you're saying that it's strange that people would say that Universal is the only provider supporting HD-DVD, you're right (though I'd call it ignorance or FUD). It's not strange at all, though, for studios to be platform-agnostic. In fact, it's shocking to me that studios like Fox, Universal and Disney are supporting one format over the other. The technological differences are minimal for the purpose of distributing HD movies (the most Blu-Ray's higher storage capacity can offer is potentially some extra space for, well, "extras"), so the only reason to support one format over the other is making an attempt to take the choice away from consumers: "Sorry, but if you want to watch Die Hard in high definition you're going to have to get a Blu-Ray player because HD-DVD is for poopy-heads."
Re:Duke 3D and 2D artwork
on
Time-Tested Gaming
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Keep in mind that the 2D graphics on the SNES, and even the NES, were pretty mature in terms of both 2D technology and art. The NES came out when 2D videogaming had been around (and pretty popular with the Atari 2600) for over 10 years. Atari 2600 graphics were just as painful to the eyes of an NES player as Virtua Fighter graphics are to a Virtua Fighter 4 player. I suspect that someone could load up Virtua Fighter 4 in 10 years and not be bothered at all by what will then be "outdated" graphics, just as we can still appreciate the graphics of Chrono Trigger today.
Indeed. I put in a 4-hour session of Tetris DS last night, just trying to improve my scores in its various single-player modes. It's a great version of the classic.
Nintendo have already boasted that the Wii will continue to download stuff even when you turn it off. You'd have to physically pull the plug (power or network).
And yet it says right in the summary that this feature is active only if your Wii is in a particular mode.
Tecmo suing modders in this fashion doesn't seem quite so ridiculous since the difficulties experienced by Bethesda (Oblivion topless patch) and Rockstar (GTA:SA Hot Coffee).
They were already wary about the ESRB after DOAX Beach Volleyball got slapped with a "Mature" rating seemingly for the moment of heavily shadowed nudity in the opening movie (Christie cliff diving) and/or the tiny swimsuits. The swimsuits would certainly be at home in an SI Swimsuit Issue available to people of all ages without restrictions. Even the short cliff-diving segment would be generally acceptable since the strategically placed shadows covered all the "naughty bits" (SI has gone much further in well-lit settings with models nude, barely covered with sand).
Then I retract the word "resembling." Unless the process you describe allows you to plug NES carts into the Gamecube, again, I consider it irrelevant to the discussion. By that standard, the Xbox is backward compatible to the Atari 2600 (and almost every other popular console).
Note: I was being sarcastic (and can name more Xbox games there that I've enjoyed beyond the list you provided). It probably goes to show how the word "atrocity" has been diluted in recent years...:)
a) Not once in there do you mention anything resembling BC to a home console (the Wii will be an out-of-the-box first in that realm with its GC compatibility). In this discussion, compatibility with a portable just doesn't count. b) All of that GB/GBA compatibility is accomplished with accessories. We're talking about either integrated, or at least free (by hooking up to Xbox Live "Silver"), backward compatibility.
I would note, by the way, that I have the Gameboy Player attached to my GC and I think it's great. It's how I played Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. That said, I still don't consider my GBP-enabled Gamecube in any way "backward compatible."
It's more than a farce. It's an atrocity! Microsoft Xbox executives should be brought before the Hague! I can't find a single game in this entire list worth playing, nor can I find an original Xbox anywhere! Unless every remaining Xbox game is added to the list immediately, I don't think we have any choice but to get the UN involved.
You're talking about the Gameboy line and GP is presumably referring to the fact that Nintendo had the SNES, N64 and Gamecube which all went without backward compatibility. Given that the Xbox and Xbox 360 are home consoles while the Gameboy line is portable, this is an obvious inference.
Interestingly, I was perusing a site where the "backups" of Xbox games are discussed because I was curious about the sizes of the games. It turns out that very few (like 6 on the list I was looking at, including MGS2: Substance where the extra space is mostly video extras) games come in at over 5 GB and the vast majority come in at sizes that can be accommodated by a single-layer (4.7GB) DVD (a good number even came in under 1 GB). After seeing that, I'm more convinced than ever that Blu-Ray is a boondoggle for gamers.
I was indeed referring to the extra time caused by a low-speed CD-ROM...I saw your initial comment and just had no idea how to reply because I didn't understand what you meant.:)
(if we assume the game engine itself is 1gb (a fairly high upper limit in my opinion)[)]
Actually, the PS3 has 256MB main memory and 256MB video memory, and the 360 has 512MB memory (shared/"unified memory architecture), so the limit on the size of the game engine is considerably smaller.:)
If DVDs mean $50 games and blurays mean $60 games, then Microsoft must be really ripping us off, because every XBox 360 game is on a DVD and every XBox 360 game is $60.
For folks who [understandably] don't want to click the links, third-party publishers are generally pricing their 360 games at $59.99 while Microsoft is pricing their games at $49.99, and Rockstar just released Table Tennis for the "bargain" price of $39.99. In other words, it isn't Microsoft "ripping us off," but rather the third-party developers who are trying to make some more scratch in this age of ridiculously high development costs...understandably so, IMO.
The major technical reason PC games can get away with using CDs instead of DVDs is that they're installed onto the hard drive before play and thus can take advantage of heavy, CPU-intensive compression. The decompression happens only once and PC games don't have to stream data off the removable disc(s) later on down the road. Theoretically, most PC games could run on a system with a 1x speed CD-ROM if the rest of the system (CPU, graphics, etc.) is up-to-date. It would just mean waiting an extra couple of hours for the initial installation.:)
That said, compression routines and disc speeds continue to improve, so, in a way, there's more effective space available on an Xbox 360 DVD-ROM than there was on an Xbox disc or a PS2 disc.
I have no doubt that Blu-Ray will offer more to developers like Square and others who really like to do games with long, involved FMV cutscenes. But, to my way of thinking, that isn't worth the much higher cost of the PS3. I'll get one eventually, but it's at least $200 [less] down the line.
I don't recall anyone saying DOA was "the game of the future". It's a game in a market of games. Some like it, some don't. If you don't then don't buy it.
Not only was that kind of thing not said, but nothing similar was even said by Itagaki-san, Team Ninja's leader and publicity hound. The game was designed first as "fan service" and second to be silly and relaxing. It succeeded on both counts and, despite GP's perception about how much "credit" should be given to gamers, it sold extremely well (had it been on PS2, I think it would have sold GTA-like numbers).
Personally, I bought it and still occasionally take it out to play because it really does make me laugh. It's like watching a light comedy when I'm just not in the mood for anything heavy and involved. After seeing the video of its sequel coming out early next year, I'll be on board for that one, too, because I was laughing hard at seeing the team take the silliness to the next level.
I think one of the reasons videogames are so successful in Japan is that they seem to have a much wider variety of videogames catering to a much wider variety of tastes. In fact, it looks like the next iteration of DOA Xtreme is taking some elements from a Japanese PS2 game I saw scenes from on X-Play (in their "weird" games segment, though I don't remember the name of the game). DOAX and its ilk should be embraced by gamers at large even if they don't want to play the games. The genre needs to expand to include more than just the "hardcore," something that Nintendo in particular is banking on.
Slashdot Mirror
Your underlying assumption, though, is that the "hoops" you're jumping through aren't fun. If a game isn't fun until you unlock a bunch of stuff then it's a bad game. It's not a bad game because of the unlockables; it's a bad game because the gameplay isn't fun. For example, I haven't finished unlocking everything in Burnout Revenge. If I wasn't enjoying myself and somehow knew that later in the game there was awesome stuff going on, then that would piss me off. Since I am, though, it doesn't bother me a bit that I can't jump instantly into the level 10 grand prix with the fastest car possible.
I guess it's not so much that I disagree with the premise that there are too many games that rely on unlockable content to string people along through lackluster gameplay (though I haven't played any recently - that's what I use game reviews for). I just consider it a more general problem of developers making lousy games, unlockable content or not.
If you remember, there used to be two DVD formats too, and each required a different player.
;)
That's both true and untrue. DIVX (not to be confused with DivX) was not a separate physical format from DVD. It was a [software] variation of the DVD format which could not be played in standard DVD players, but DVDs would play just fine in all DIVX players. The truth, though, is that DIVX was never really a competitor to [open] DVD, even for the short time (less than a year) it was being sold.
You can find more information about DIVX over yonder.
As a sidenote, I thought I'd mention that two of the three big studios that released movies exclusively on DIVX (while it existed) are now Blu-Ray exclusive: Disney and Fox. That seems like a good sign for HD-DVD.
Well then, where the "frig" are these mid-range Blu-Ray drives? You'd think that "friggin'" Best Buy would be catering to the mid range, yet they have two $1,000 Blu-Ray players listed as "coming soon" and NO "friggin" indications of any "friggin" mid-range models coming soon. Find me one MSRP of an upcoming Blu-Ray player under $999.99 and I will shut the "frig" up.
You can believe that what you're saying is a fact, but I tend only to believe facts.
I'm aware that there are "fancy" DVD players still selling for more premium prices, but the bottom line is that Blu-Ray players are debuting at $1,000 and HD-DVD players are debuting at $500. Further, if you take a look at the Toshiba HD-DVD player (the one I've actually looked at carefully - I haven't researched the RCA HD-DVD player) you'll find that it has the kinds of bells and whistles which budget manufacturers cut out, most notably the decoding of the new Dolby Digital and DTS audio formats.
I've said it before: I expect that before next summer there are going to be HD-DVD players under $300. I don't get the same impression from the Blu-Ray camp. Price is a critical factor and, so far, the advantage goes to HD-DVD.
As for an FPS...you've got to be kidding. I mean, I can understand wanting to shoot someone in the fucking head, the blood, the brains, the end of another useless life...particularly after your post.
Moreover, Blu-ray has unimaginable support by movie companies, because of the very same reason everyone hates Sony and everyone hates the MPAA. The Blu-ray format has more DRM and other copy-protection than HD-DVD does.
a) As someone else pointed out, the copy protection/DRM is the same on both formats. Both formats even have the same slate of compression options (WMV, MPEG, etc.).
b) What do you mean by "unimaginable support?" The last stats I saw (based on how many movies are controlled by each company) actually put the HD-DVD studios (taking into account the studios supporting both formats) at a little over 50% of the total US movie "catalog."
I think this fight is going to be won by whoever can get their players down below $200 first. Considering the debut Blu-Ray players (which, of course, haven't debuted yet) are going to be $1,000 while two HD-DVD players are already on the market at $500, it seems like HD-DVD has the advantage there. Once one of the formats breaks that $200 mark, you'll see the one-format studios jumping ship in no time...
If Universal Pictures is the only media house supporting HD-DVD, it does seem a bit strange that Warner Home Video Inc. and Paramount Home Entertainment are also members of a group promoting HD-DVD...
If you're saying that it's strange that people would say that Universal is the only provider supporting HD-DVD, you're right (though I'd call it ignorance or FUD). It's not strange at all, though, for studios to be platform-agnostic. In fact, it's shocking to me that studios like Fox, Universal and Disney are supporting one format over the other. The technological differences are minimal for the purpose of distributing HD movies (the most Blu-Ray's higher storage capacity can offer is potentially some extra space for, well, "extras"), so the only reason to support one format over the other is making an attempt to take the choice away from consumers: "Sorry, but if you want to watch Die Hard in high definition you're going to have to get a Blu-Ray player because HD-DVD is for poopy-heads."
Keep in mind that the 2D graphics on the SNES, and even the NES, were pretty mature in terms of both 2D technology and art. The NES came out when 2D videogaming had been around (and pretty popular with the Atari 2600) for over 10 years. Atari 2600 graphics were just as painful to the eyes of an NES player as Virtua Fighter graphics are to a Virtua Fighter 4 player. I suspect that someone could load up Virtua Fighter 4 in 10 years and not be bothered at all by what will then be "outdated" graphics, just as we can still appreciate the graphics of Chrono Trigger today.
Indeed. I put in a 4-hour session of Tetris DS last night, just trying to improve my scores in its various single-player modes. It's a great version of the classic.
Nintendo have already boasted that the Wii will continue to download stuff even when you turn it off. You'd have to physically pull the plug (power or network).
And yet it says right in the summary that this feature is active only if your Wii is in a particular mode.
Don't people even read the summary anymore?
Tecmo suing modders in this fashion doesn't seem quite so ridiculous since the difficulties experienced by Bethesda (Oblivion topless patch) and Rockstar (GTA:SA Hot Coffee).
They were already wary about the ESRB after DOAX Beach Volleyball got slapped with a "Mature" rating seemingly for the moment of heavily shadowed nudity in the opening movie (Christie cliff diving) and/or the tiny swimsuits. The swimsuits would certainly be at home in an SI Swimsuit Issue available to people of all ages without restrictions. Even the short cliff-diving segment would be generally acceptable since the strategically placed shadows covered all the "naughty bits" (SI has gone much further in well-lit settings with models nude, barely covered with sand).
When my latitude comes out of hibernation, the PCMCIA token ring card doesn't work and the CD/RW refuses to open.
As long as it doesn't have morning breath...
Then I retract the word "resembling." Unless the process you describe allows you to plug NES carts into the Gamecube, again, I consider it irrelevant to the discussion. By that standard, the Xbox is backward compatible to the Atari 2600 (and almost every other popular console).
Note: I was being sarcastic (and can name more Xbox games there that I've enjoyed beyond the list you provided). It probably goes to show how the word "atrocity" has been diluted in recent years... :)
a) Not once in there do you mention anything resembling BC to a home console (the Wii will be an out-of-the-box first in that realm with its GC compatibility). In this discussion, compatibility with a portable just doesn't count.
b) All of that GB/GBA compatibility is accomplished with accessories. We're talking about either integrated, or at least free (by hooking up to Xbox Live "Silver"), backward compatibility.
I would note, by the way, that I have the Gameboy Player attached to my GC and I think it's great. It's how I played Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. That said, I still don't consider my GBP-enabled Gamecube in any way "backward compatible."
It's more than a farce. It's an atrocity! Microsoft Xbox executives should be brought before the Hague! I can't find a single game in this entire list worth playing, nor can I find an original Xbox anywhere! Unless every remaining Xbox game is added to the list immediately, I don't think we have any choice but to get the UN involved.
You're talking about the Gameboy line and GP is presumably referring to the fact that Nintendo had the SNES, N64 and Gamecube which all went without backward compatibility. Given that the Xbox and Xbox 360 are home consoles while the Gameboy line is portable, this is an obvious inference.
Interestingly, I was perusing a site where the "backups" of Xbox games are discussed because I was curious about the sizes of the games. It turns out that very few (like 6 on the list I was looking at, including MGS2: Substance where the extra space is mostly video extras) games come in at over 5 GB and the vast majority come in at sizes that can be accommodated by a single-layer (4.7GB) DVD (a good number even came in under 1 GB). After seeing that, I'm more convinced than ever that Blu-Ray is a boondoggle for gamers.
Oh, sure, they're after power, too; but power's only a means to an end... and what do you think that end is?
Politicians use the power to get money while everybody else uses money to get the power. It's almost magical!
It must. I'm on Windows XP and I can't see it.
I was indeed referring to the extra time caused by a low-speed CD-ROM...I saw your initial comment and just had no idea how to reply because I didn't understand what you meant. :)
(if we assume the game engine itself is 1gb (a fairly high upper limit in my opinion)[)]
:)
Actually, the PS3 has 256MB main memory and 256MB video memory, and the 360 has 512MB memory (shared/"unified memory architecture), so the limit on the size of the game engine is considerably smaller.
If DVDs mean $50 games and blurays mean $60 games, then Microsoft must be really ripping us off, because every XBox 360 game is on a DVD and every XBox 360 game is $60.
No, they are not.
For folks who [understandably] don't want to click the links, third-party publishers are generally pricing their 360 games at $59.99 while Microsoft is pricing their games at $49.99, and Rockstar just released Table Tennis for the "bargain" price of $39.99. In other words, it isn't Microsoft "ripping us off," but rather the third-party developers who are trying to make some more scratch in this age of ridiculously high development costs...understandably so, IMO.
The major technical reason PC games can get away with using CDs instead of DVDs is that they're installed onto the hard drive before play and thus can take advantage of heavy, CPU-intensive compression. The decompression happens only once and PC games don't have to stream data off the removable disc(s) later on down the road. Theoretically, most PC games could run on a system with a 1x speed CD-ROM if the rest of the system (CPU, graphics, etc.) is up-to-date. It would just mean waiting an extra couple of hours for the initial installation. :)
That said, compression routines and disc speeds continue to improve, so, in a way, there's more effective space available on an Xbox 360 DVD-ROM than there was on an Xbox disc or a PS2 disc.
I have no doubt that Blu-Ray will offer more to developers like Square and others who really like to do games with long, involved FMV cutscenes. But, to my way of thinking, that isn't worth the much higher cost of the PS3. I'll get one eventually, but it's at least $200 [less] down the line.
I don't recall anyone saying DOA was "the game of the future". It's a game in a market of games. Some like it, some don't. If you don't then don't buy it.
Not only was that kind of thing not said, but nothing similar was even said by Itagaki-san, Team Ninja's leader and publicity hound. The game was designed first as "fan service" and second to be silly and relaxing. It succeeded on both counts and, despite GP's perception about how much "credit" should be given to gamers, it sold extremely well (had it been on PS2, I think it would have sold GTA-like numbers).
Personally, I bought it and still occasionally take it out to play because it really does make me laugh. It's like watching a light comedy when I'm just not in the mood for anything heavy and involved. After seeing the video of its sequel coming out early next year, I'll be on board for that one, too, because I was laughing hard at seeing the team take the silliness to the next level.
I think one of the reasons videogames are so successful in Japan is that they seem to have a much wider variety of videogames catering to a much wider variety of tastes. In fact, it looks like the next iteration of DOA Xtreme is taking some elements from a Japanese PS2 game I saw scenes from on X-Play (in their "weird" games segment, though I don't remember the name of the game). DOAX and its ilk should be embraced by gamers at large even if they don't want to play the games. The genre needs to expand to include more than just the "hardcore," something that Nintendo in particular is banking on.