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Sony Rep Denies Need For PC, PS3 Better
Phil Harrison continues down the road of marketing hyperbole, now having gone on record stating 'we do not need the PC'. He has also denied claims of copying Nintendo with the PS3's Dualshake controller. From the Gamasutra article: "In a certain way, I understand why people would say such things, but it is stupid, if you'll forgive me saying so ... We have already worked on it a long time, and Nintendo almost certainly has done likewise with something similar. It is perfectly naturally for two companies to work on identical devices. It's like that with technology." Must be nice to live in fantasy land.
Phil Harrison went on to say that ordinary gods and goddesses would cower at the site of the first PS3 and that the plain jane religions that exist the world today will be unneeded once we have the PS3 to worship.
.. just ... look at it! No, wait stop, you are not worthy to cast your eyes upon it. Avert them! Everyone, stop looking at it, you're ruining its glory just by concieving it in your feeble puny mind!"
... the alpha & the omega!"
Sony has been playing around with the idea of allowing consumers one PS3 in exchange for that consumer's first born son (or the trimmed down version for first born daughter). Analysts stated that this strategy would be met with disgust in most parts of the world but may play well in third world countries and those suffering from over population.
When asked why he would no longer need a PC, Harrison merely gestured to the screen displaying the new console and said, "Look at it! Just
Sony has set up large preemptive trauma centers for players who will seek medical attention after attempting to "play" the PS3. Harrison explained that only players with "mad skillz" will be able to touch the PS3 and not walk away with their entire reality altered. Harrison also alluded to the idea that much of life after the PS3's release will be dedicated to playing the PS3 and trying to conceive of what life before the PS3 might have been like. Phil was skeptical any of their consumers would own any other consoles aside from the PS3 and stated that doctors were investigating ways to wean heroin addicts from the drug by giving them a PS3 as a substitute.
Some of the developers of the PS3 were admitted to mental institutions for possible instability. Many were sobbing and laughing at the same time screaming anything from "It is done!" to "It is
Reporters noted that Phil looked quite thin and ill but when asked about his health, he became extremely defensive saying, "Why do you ask about the physical things? If you had god in your living room, would you pause your conversation with him to eat?!" he cried, "Why do you vex me with puzzles non-PS3 based?" He had shaved his head for reasons unknown. He then jumped off the stage and ran to his celebrity van outside--presumably to play an in-development version of the PS3.
So, is Sony going to do all their development on PS3s from now on if they don't need PCs?
My work here is dung.
Sony management has officially gone insane.
I'm just waiting to see what the company's financial reports look like in a year...
For this to replace all the functions of a PC, it would BE a PC. I fail to see how it could be called a console if it had a keyboard, mouse and stored my tax records.
Harrison suggested that the use of the Linux operation system, hard drive and the Cell processor would lessen the importance of the PC as a home media center.
Then I guess we don't need SOE's slew of crappy MMOs either. (I'm talking to you PlanetSide.)
Does anyone here really understand Sony's nebulous idea of a super all-in-one entertainment center? Because if Slashdot has no idea in hell what Sony means, then I doubt John Q. Public does.
Here's an idea, Sony: focus on good gaming instead of this ultra mega entertainment center crap. Like people are going to toss out there perfectly fine entertainment set ups just to have your shiny console at the center of their living room.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,15 18,419072,00.html
And here's one for the ages:
When we launched Playstation in 1994 we introduced the concept of real-time computer-generated 3-D-graphics for the first time. When Nintendo released the N64 in 1996 and they had real-time CG 3-D-graphics, did you hear us say, "Nintendo, you've stolen our idea?" Of course not. These innovations are things that become possible because of a combination of technology, price and manufacturing capability.
What you say !! Does Starfox ring a bell? What about Battlezone? Not only are they denying that they obviously based they idea off of Nintendo's, but they're taking credit for 3D graphics... Do these people even listen to themselves?
Yeah, finally gonna get rid of that damned noisy PC. As soon as I put my hands on a copy of AutoCAD for PS3.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
We can do this /. It's a team effort.
I'm wondering if Harrison talked to the guys down in Sony's Computer Department before claiming we didn't need PC's anymore.
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
Oh, good! My PS2-PC has been getting pretty slow browsing the web lately; the Flash really kills it, and of course there's no option to turn it off in the crappy browser it gives me.
Still, it's a distinct step up from my Family Computer.
And the less said about my Entertainment Computer System, the better.
(Translation: The "our console will also be a computer!" lie is older than quite a few of the people who will read this post, and older than many of the customers Sony is targetting. Believe it when you have the computer hardware and general-purpose, useful software in your hands and running in your living room and doing something useful, and not one second earlier.)
We have already worked on it [motion-sensing] a long time ...and urged the Warhawk developers 10 days before E3 to add support for it.
and Nintendo almost certainly has done likewise with something similar.
He's talking about how the N64, in 1996, "stole" 3D graphics from the 1992 PSX, ignoring the fact that Starfox (SNES) and (of course) Saturn already had 3D graphics.
Yes, it is a bit of hyperbole, but Cell still looks impressive. It would be very interesting to see some sort of benchmark or comparison with Cell and Intel processors somehow.
My PS3 will make food, family and games obsolete.
This may sound silly but yesterday sometime around lunch-time I was thinking to myself...
"You know, Sony really has fucked themselves pretty good. First they pulled this whole embarassing PSP trick, now they're trying to sell the average person a $600 game machine."
Then suddenly I thought of something. With a hard drive, Linux, broadband, keyboard, mouse and HDTV and or a VGA display, the PS3 is a pretty nice little computer.
Maybe Sony will be attempting to not exclusively compete for space under the television but ALSO on the desk?
Once upon a time there were people who had their Commodore 64's hooked up to televisions because they couldn't afford monitors or because they really didn't see the need since they only used them to play games anyway.
If the PS3 finds itself being purchased by people who want a "powerful computer" but don't need the full range of computing accessories (printers, desks, computer chairs, etc) the days of the living room computer may be making a come back.
I can easily see poeple with a PS3 in their living room, browsing the web, downloading music, playing games, and even possibly chatting/blogging/emailing on a PS3.
On the other hand, the PS3 might just do piss poorly and make Sony rethink their strategy for the PS4.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Didn't Sony say that the PS2 would replace the PC? Which was far from truth too...
Typical Sony, trying to overhype. It makes you wonder who falls for this...
When they can have a Sony controled 'content' delivery device?
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
I swear, Sony is just doing one thing after another. Even my friends who are hard-core anime/final fantasy/playstation/anything japanese fans have taken a step back after looking at Sony in recent months and said "I think I'm going to get a Revolution instead". Microsoft really had a strong point when they said "for the price of a PS3, you'll be able to get a 360 and a Revolution". Saying "Its basically a PC" is a thing that Microsoft specifically wanted to avoid with their XBox/360, simply because they know that the PC gaming market is a whole different group of game-players than most console gamers, and you're not going to get those people to abandon their PCs for a console. Also, you can't call it a PC unless you're saying that I can pick up any PC CD/DVD and install it on the PS3 and expect it to work. But this statement isnt Sony's biggest mistake. Sony has simply made the biggest mistake with the Blu-Ray player. Even if I get a PS3, Im not going to start replacing my DVD collection with Blu-ray discs, so Sony can probably expect the Blu Ray format to go the way of the UMD. On top of all of this, if Sony REALLY wanted to have a lot of storage space in their system, they should have simply had 3 slim-dvd drives. That way games can be on up to 3 dvds (thats about 25gb of data btw) and you dont need to change out discs, PLUS if you have games on single dvds, you could have 3 seperate games in your system and switch between them on the fly. Simple things like this probably would have dropped the PS3's price and increased the interest of the PS3. I swear, all sony needs to do now to ensure I'll never buy a PS3 (im already holding off until it hits about 300$) is if the Gran Turismo developers decide to expand the series to the 360 or (ironically) the PC.
I didn't see anything about this mentioned, but does this mean they plan to accept usb keyboards and mouses as valid input devices? That would actually be a good idea, enabling traditionally PC gaming experiences to be brought to the console without awkward interface issues. Too bad all the other issues with the company and console have pretty much turned me off to the PS3 right now, and considering I already have a PC that's also kind of moot.f
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/fanboy.h tml
scroll down to point 2....
Nintendo wouldn't let Phil anywhere near the blueprints!
More seriously, it's entirely possible that instead of being motivated by copycatism, Sony changed to the DualShake controller due to their bleak prospects in the suit filed against them concerning their DualShock patent infringement.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
I for one am happy that this console cum PC is coming out, as I'm due for an upgrade from my current PC
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate and captain of my soul.
.. Bears shit in the woods..
On the competition:
h haf
"After Sony aborts the invasion that is being carried out by the Nintendo and Microsoft villains, Microsoft will no longer be a superpower. Its deterioration will be rapid. I say to those villains who are meeting in America, thinking of launching psychological war and brainwashing: wait. Do not be hasty because your disappointment will be huge. You will reap nothing from this aggressive war, which you launched on Sony, except for disgrace and defeat."
"My feelings, as usual-- we will slaughter them all."
"I now inform you that you are too far from reality."
"No. I am not scared, and neither should you be!"
On Microsoft:
"Microsoft is a very stupid company. The American people are not stupid, they are very clever. I can't understand how such clever people came to buy from such a stupid company."
"Microsoft is now in disarray."
"Don't believe anything! We will chase the Xbox360 back to Redmond!"
"Whenever we attack, they retreat. When we pound them with the Cell and the RSX, they retreat even deeper. But when we stopped pounding, they pushed to the Wal-Marts for propaganda purposes."
On Nintendo:
"They are sick in their minds. They say they brought 65 Wii into center of E3. I say to you this talk is not true. This is part of their sick mind."
"I would like to clarify a simple fact here: How can you lay siege to a whole empire? Who is really under siege now? Sony cannot be besieged. The PSP cannot be besieged. The PS3 cannot be besieged."
"We are not afraid of Nintendo. Kutaragi has condemned them. They are stupid. They are stupid -- and they are condemned."
"You think their Wii are in an endless line coming towards us? Wrong. They are only a few of them and they turn around and then return, as if to make a long snake."
And finally, we reveal the true identity of the new Sony spokesman: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sa
Well, the PS3 has a whopping 256 Megs of RAM (since they *dedicated* the other 256 Megs to Video, not to be shared). Linux will run fine under 256, but it won't replace my PC.
If that were the truth, the industry wouldn't have backlashed like it did.
The truth is that, when Sony saw what Nintendo was doing, the completely redesigned their controller, and DROPPED a feature, to put in accelerometers. Further, the company that you had demo the "new" technology for you didn't find out about the motion sensing features until a week before the biggest event in videogame history.
There is simply no way that Sony has been working on this for any extended period of time. Having to drop a feature to work it in, and then the technology not even work correctly (given the awful Warhawk demo) is a huge sign over Sony's head saying "WE ARE LYING."
---space.is.the.place---
If the retardation continues, regardless of the (whole) truth in it, not even a kickass FF title will be able to goad me into buying a PS3 from those fools. . . .
He didn't say that we don't need PCs and that PS3 will replace your PS3! He was saying that Sony did not need the PC to be in their online strategy ala Microsoft's 'Live Anywhere'. Look at the full question and answer:
5 18,419072,00.html
"SPIEGEL ONLINE: Speaking of online, Microsoft has just announced "Live Anywhere", an integrated Windows-Xbox-Mobile environment. Is that something you're worried about because you don't have the same access to the PC market as Microsoft does?
Harrison: No, it doesn't concern me and I don't think it concerns the consumer either. Once you adopt a game system as your primary entertainment device, that's what you want. We think that Playstation 3 is the place where our users will be doing their gaming, their movie watching, their Web browsing and a lot of other computer entertainment functions. That will satisfy them. Playstation 3 is a computer. We don't need the PC."
Taken from: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1
Note the last part of the interviewer's question, and the last part of Harrison's answer, and it starts to make sense. Quite typical that a Sony exec's comments have been taken out of context and misreported, in my opinion - it's happening a lot lately.
It's official. Phil Harrison has become the American version of Tomonobu Itagaki.
In accordance with E.O. 12958, this post is marked Unclassified.
Given Sony's propensity to lock everything down, and the fact that the PS3 doesn't actually exist yet, how the heck could I realistically replace a PC with a PS3?
They got a web-browser or any other software I might want? It's a Sony product, so I doubt I could rip CDs with it. Can I get iTunes for it? What about my tax software, has that been ported? Inkscape? Google Earth?
That man needs to be significantly whacked with a clue-stick. Because the PS3 doesn't do what a PC does. Not by a long shot. Or did he mean just for gaming?
Why on Earth would anyone claim that a locked down, non-upgradeable, lacking-an-operating-system or software system is superior to a PC?
Flippin' wierd if you ask me!
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'm glad to see that the former Iraqi information minister has found work.
Let me get this straight, some executive at a large electronic manufacturer says his product is so great that it will make a competiting product obsolete. He further goes on to say that his company innovated things that it really didn't. Lastly, all of this is published on a game industry news website. I suppose if you want to get a chuckle, knock yourself out. This isn't any different than the stupid pep talks I here at work or other managment hyperbole. He's trying to market a product. He probably wouldn't know a 3d engine if it smacked him in the...
I do think our man here is related to the former Iraqi information minister.
Is to play WoW, does that mean Blizzard can replace their servers with PS3's? Might help lag some.
"What a depressingly stupid machine." - Marvin the Paranoid Android.
Seriously, even though I think the guy is gunning for a job working for the President, you have to admit that if you bought a PS3 you wouldn't have to worry about buying games that required DirectX 11 support.
By definition, all games would automatically work, since they have to be PS3 compatible.
Additionally, you know you'd get browser support, as most websites can't ignore hundreds of millions of consumers, if they did choose to use the PS3 instead of a PC.
Now, that said, I still think you'd be better off spending the $600 on a Nintendo Wii and a PC instead, and get the best of both worlds. Sure, they want you to think PCs cost $2000, but my last laptop (top of the line wireless, nice HD, good battery life, WinXP) cost me $500 thru Tiger Direct, and I see PCs (AMD) for around $250 on there all the time. If you get them with Linux, you get a good solid PC with tons of apps too.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
the ps3 runs linux natively
True, the PlayStation 3 console is said to run a Linux operating system, but if it doesn't include a linker, and third party linkers don't work due to inability to add Sony's digital signature, then it's just as "Linux based" as a TiVo DVR.
I guess the guy needs to make comments like that in order to justify the price of the PS3. If he sincerely believes what he's saying he's deluded at best and mentally challenged at worst. Current high end PCs already outperform anything this next generation of consoles has to offer. Within a couple of years PCs will be on a whole other level. I cant even imagine what the capabilities of PCs will be at the end of the PS3's supposed 8-year lifespan.
Consoles really have turned into stripped down PCs. It's getting to the point where they're becoming irrelevant. I'm convinced that at some point there will be convergence when PCs turn into more ubiquitous, intuitive machines. It will be a general media platform and at that point a gaming console and a PC will be one and the same. I think the future for the consoles as a seperate device will be portability, like the DS. In fact, I think consoles would have disappeared long ago if it weren't for Japan.
So Sony is teling us thgat they will make the PS3 able to spend all day downloading porn?
there is a lot of people who do that all day long.. so if they would replace their computer with a PS3, this would be a great selling point!
LOL
Or Hitler.
If Sony can convince potential buyers who are wary of the $600 price tag that the PS3 can be used as a regular computer, then people might be willing to spend $600 on a PS3.
If you want to know how the Cell performs you should look at DSPs; there are some things they do really well (a 16MHz DSP can decode a MP3 while you need a 200MHz x86 to do the same) but there are more things that they are awful at (running an os on a DSP is a nightmare).
Why I think you'd be dissapointed with the Cell is that it lacks the biggest benefit of most DSPs; that is, because of how fast the Bus and Memory are compared to the core of a DSP memory-access is virtually free. In 10 years a cell based system will be inexpensive and very powerful, today it is a very flawed processor.
I don't think that's accurate. He was saying the PS3 will be the primary entertainment platform, including for online entertainment, for most of its users (he specific refers to entertainment functions) and that, therefore, Sony doesn't need to have a presence in the PC universe to compete with Microsoft's "Live Anywhere" to make the PS3 competitive with the Xbox 360 in overall experience. He says "We don't need the PC" where "We = Sony", and in the context of questions about the need to compete with MS's Live Anywhere that goes beyond the console platform.
He was not saying, there, that people who use PS3's won't have any need or use for a PC. He's saying that their use of a PC won't be significant in regard to the PS3's competitive position with regard to the Xbox 360, and that Live Anywhere isn't something Sony feels it needs to worry about.
Now, there may be reason to argue with that position, as well, but he's not claiming the PS3 will displace all use of the PC, or that PS3 users will no longer need PCs at all.
when has the lack of direct linux support held the homebrew community back from developing a version of linux that runs on it?
If it costs more to mod a console to run Linux or NetBSD than it does to buy a comparable PC that can boot a well-known Linux or *BSD distribution, then running Linux on that console isn't cost effective. With the new version 1.6 Xbox consoles and the removal of vulnerable copies of MechAssault from the retail chain, Microsoft appears to have succeeded in plugging a lot of the holes.
Learn computing by typing program listings from magazines on a Sinclair ZX81 and later Sinclair Spectrum. Home computers like Atari ST, Amiga, BBC Micro and others all can be connected to television. A monitor would have cost an arm and a leg back then. Ok, I use them mainly to play games, but there are many serious sofware written for these machines. Atari ST was very popular as a serious computer in Germany before the ascendency on the Wintel machines. The ST and Amiga was at least as powerful as PCs and definitely more use friendly having a WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menu and Pulldown menus) interface and mouse as standard while PC was stuck with DOS. Face it, a low end PC (from 1 GHZ) can handle 90 percent of the the job most people throw at it. I used to run Adobe Indesign on a vintage 1999 450 MHz PC. They just suck at playing games. You are always behind the curve with a new GPU coming out every six month. So take a powerful machine like PS3, with stable design that last for ten years, add Linux and use a HD TV as monitors could bring back the return of the bedroom coders. They might only write the equivalent of Bejewelled for now, but in ten years time they will the future Dave Perry and the Darling Brothers.
Wikipedia claims that the PS2 Linux kit was introduced in 2002 and discontinued in North America in 2003. And the slim PS2 (SCPH-70000), introduced in late 2004, removed the internal drive bay that the Linux kit requires.
I seemed to remember reading articles in the 80's about school kids getting their parents to buy a Sinclair ZX Spectrum by claiming it's computer. Well it is, but all they want to do is plays games on it. I imagine the same line will be used to get a PS3.
If the PS3 and Blu-Ray bomb, I highly doubt there will be a PS4. In fact there may not even be a Sony as we know it.
That thinking is exactly what will make me buy a PS3. I've wanted an all in one set top box for a while (HTPC can work, but it just isn't as sleek). XBox works, but there are many limits on how easily it can be used as a computer. But I will not buy that it will be a realistic PC replacement until I see proof.... If they have to cut some corners to get it pushed out the door in time, this would seem like the first place they would to me. And it seems overly-anbitious to the point where it could easily be left out... I'll like it... Geeks will like it... But I wouldn't be surprised if this suffers the same fate as the Dreamcast. It was too soon for the dreamcasts features (online gaming out of the box, and it was just a great system that sadly never took off). The PS3 may be great and perfect for me, but I think this kind of all-in-one box won't sell to the mainstream people for another console generation....
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Yeah. Macs are way better :)
Never mind Spamassassin. When's Spammerassassin coming out?
" will make a competiting product obsolete"
That's not what he's saying - NOBODY was sitting about trying to decide whether they should buy a PS3 or a PC
This is like him saying buying a PS3 will make your requirement for oxygen obsolete.
News Just in explains why Sony is saying market share is no longer important.
PS3 hardware slow and broken
Published by the Inquirer a few hours ago. Sony documentation was included. These guys are finished.
In words and pictures :
AFTER BREAKING THE news to me about PS3 RSX speeds earlier on the flight to Japan, my row-mate said 'if you think that's interesting, wait till you see this. Cell is hurting, badly'.
For those of you that believe in religions with karmic tendencies, scoops like this meant one of two things, the wings of the plane are about to fall off and I am going to die in a fiery ball, or worse yet, the movie selection will be worrisome. Cell memory access appears to be broken, RSX has half the triangle setup rate of the ATI chip in XBox360, and the true horror, Big Momma's House 2 and a Queen Latifa movie.
With the movie selection still making my brain throb from the glances I caught, I furiously took notes on what the source was saying. He started out saying that the RSX can only write about half as much vertex data as it can fetch, not an ideal situation by any stretch, but survivable.
Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.
Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.
For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.
For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".
If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.
The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?
Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.
You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is a bitch to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console