Oh please. I've had more "per capita" trouble with my previous Linux based ISP (dsp.net/dsp.com) than I have with Hooked -> Wenet -> GST.
DSP was very unorganized and just offered wretched performance. Hooked incidentally ran BSDi modem and smtp+pop3 servers and now has a FreeBSD news server.
Re:Microsoft Research's IPv6 stack comes with sour
on
IPv6 Promotion Effort.
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· Score: 1
So I suspect MS won't be needing to copy the *BSD work. If anything, it looks like they're farther along.
How so? Have you even looked at the *BSD efforts? There are two major stacks that work quite well with the various BSDs, and in fact the US Military has developed a third "major" stack. And MS has one pre-beta one. Hmm. Which is further along?
It's FUD because it can't happen. Have you tried to cut'n'paste the tcp/ip stack from say FreeBSD to Linux. Good luck. Their effort is better spent on developing their own stack.
Besides, if they really wanted to, they could cut'n'paste from Linux. W2K is closed source, so you'd never be able to tell (and don't start screaming about tcp/ip fingerprinting, there's a million reasons why a system might have the same fingerprint).
Sure, Apache is already *stable* on NT. Perhaps it's not as stable as on FreeBSD or somesuch, but it really does work quite well. Take for instance this guy I know, who is for most intensive purpposes a Unix newbie. He was running a web server on 95 (I forget which, but it was one of the free non MS ones), and he eventually switched to Apache. After setting it up, he noted that Apache was much more stable than the previous two software packages he had tried...
Wow, this whole thing makes me want to go out and buy either an iMac or one of those nifty new B&C G3s (alas I don't have that kind of money). 'Course I almost feel bad having this Mac SE in the corner. If only Woz (or anyone for that matter) was charitable enough to donate some RAM, a mouse, and a floppy drive...
As much as everyone but Woz and Balmer were portrayed as jerks, at least Jobs was a jerk with flair (and Balmer a thick necked moron with a sticky stack of Playboys).
kde-devel is *not* a one way street. If you want write access, ask. I'm not so sure I'd be glad to see you with write access however, since you only seem to spew self-righteous flames.
As it stands, you spew out your opinions as if they were the gospel truth. If it's just your opinion, perhaps you should make that clearer when you spew to the press.
There's a difference betteen you "stating your opinion" and what Matthais did. You state your opinion to people in a very public forum, that tends to be followed by slashdot. M.E. stated his in a private forum, intended for people working on KDE.
Why does he imply you have a marketing team? He does? Hmm. I musta missed *that*. Gnome in general gets more coverage on slashdot, and has more rabbid people mentioning every releas on freshmeat, hence, Gnome and Gnumeric tend to be over-hyped.
Why does Miguel think he is so innocent? Mystery. Why does Miguel refer to pink rabbits? It's the crack cocaine.
There are none. Demand is the driving force behind bindings for these extraneous languages, if enough people want them, someone has enough desire to create one. Hell if you pay me to learn ObjC I'd write the bindings.
Blow me. I'll knock whatever I fucking choose to knock.
PICS support doesn't belong in an HTML widget, period. It's an HTTP (that can easily be abstracted to become HTTP independant) thing.
KHTML already has some JS stubs (read: JavaScript is probably not far off), and some CSS support. Not modern? Try something OO and GUI written in C.
Despite popular FUD, GPL is *not* opensource, it's strangulation of source. Incidentally, khtml is closer to the GPL than the NPL is. Thank you:)
Uh yeah scores of developers can use Linux and Win32. Whoopie. Mozilla is currently a bitch to compile out of the box, and for that matter so is Gnome. I'd rather just stick with KDE which is thankfully quite easy to build out of the box on my FreeBSD box.
Gnome was knee-jerk, Baboon besides being a moronic name is also a clear statement of how the Gnome folks (Thanks Miguel, yo te amo tambien:)) refuse to consider cooperation.
A desktop is a big project, and settling sucks, re-inventing the wheel sucks, you suck, but working together to come up with an even better standard would just rock. Oh yeah, I forgot, Gnome is purely the domain of pre-pubescent males trying to be all l33t. Get over yourself.
Dude. Get your head out of your fucking shithole before you open your mouth. Otherwise you'll end up with a mouthful of crap like you seem to have done. You're calling KDE a rushed relase? Yeah, that's it. Have you even tried to use the Gnome 1.0.0 release? The only thing that sucks more is the whole poorly engineered libcs that Linux distributions appear to be stuck with. KDE 1.0 was *hardly* hurried.
Gee where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, have you heard of Gnome? Oh please don't tell me how Gnome actually offers something KDE doesn't. KDE used CORBA first, worked with multiple languages first, etc, etc.
However, unlike you sir Anonymous Coward, the ImageMagick integration is far from a "widget-wars" response. KDE lacks image manipulation classes, and ImageMagick can provide them. Why should we be stuck with only one set of im classes? I thought that the whole Linux mentality (besides egoism) was diversity? Oh yeah, diversity as long as it's Linux, x86, Gtk+, GNU, etc. Hrm. Gee why does that sound so familiar? Bill Gates perhaps? Nahhhh.
What? When was this opinion expressed on the kde-devel mailing list? Oh yes, I remember. When the topic of Gnome was brought up. This is *not* a duplication of effort at all, as it extends the kimageio class to more image formats than were previously available. This provides a nice clean extensible inteface for displaying graphics. This means one can inline all sorts of weird formats in HTML and Konqy will be able to display it.
Sure imlib does bunches more, that will likely be integrated. But keep in mind that the Gimp team as a whole has been very anti-Qt and in general inflexible when dealing with Qt (kimp comes to mind).
You may call it duplication of effort, but I call it diversity. What's so wrong with a little friendly competition for Gimp. Is the Gimp devel team afraid of another OpenSource image manipulation tool? Hmm.
For the most part, no, I'm not interested in Gimp at all. I'm interested in something that works, not something that makes a knee-jerk political statement.
Yes, but for the time being, I think this is a Win98 Second Edition feature only. It's called ACPI and it's an all encompassing *thing*. Aside from using an unshareable IRQ (#9), it also gives you a soft power switch and another means to provide resource enumeration.
It is actually a rather nice idea, as it tries to sidestep some of the hackish nature of APM.
Keep in mind even the shipping version of Win98SE has horribly buggy ACPI support, even though it tries to be very conservative about when to enable this. My guess is W2K will also have some form of ACPI support.
You can find some more information somewhere on telebit (I think).
Maybe Rob's anti-KDE actions are becoming a bit more blunt, but I really don't see how this is news. KDE has had a HTML widget since pre 1.0 days (someone's even hacked up java support forit too). For that matter even Gnome has had a HTML widget somewhere, right? Hmm.
Miguel may have come across as a nice guy, but nice guys do not trash compedetors, they do not spread lies, and all around bullshit. Your loyalties are clear, and you'll backup Miguel no matter what. Blind faith is overrated.
As for your choice of Gnome, IMO you're choosing it for the wrong reasons. Gnome is *not* portable, and in fact I've had a bitch of a time getting it to compile on FreeBSD. FWIW, I think that Gnome has used CORBA in the wrong places. CORBA is a heavy "standard", and putting it to use on the panel is like driving an SUV in the city. It's insane.
But then, CORBA should promote compatibility, right? Wrong. Gnome has chosen to create its own standards, the whole project is a reinvent the wheel type of situation. For instance check out Bonbo or watever it's called and take a look at KOM/OpenParts. Which one has been around longer? Oh yeah, KOM/OpenParts. I don't know really how one can be CORBA compliant. Take a look at Konqueror, KWord, KSpread, etc, etc, they all make strong use of CORBA. Aw hell just sit on the kde-devel list for a while, or read the archives to perhaps get a more accurate opinion.
You obviously don't care to get your facts straight or present an objective opinion, please don't disguise it as such.
Well perhaps you should actually track the kde-devel mailing list. It was just recently that some non bloat inducing features were added. For instance the KConfig class was recently rewritten making it possible to store your configuration files in any format you so choose, as well as making it quite a bit faster.
Oh yes, and KDE will now "officially" check for.kdelnk and.desktop files, making a unified format for these things in the process. So what does this mean? Easier integration betweek KDE apps and Gnome panel, and between Gnome apps and the kpanel.
You think KDE is slow or bloated? Rewrite something to make it faster and leaner. The TT Trolls have managed to snarf up a lot of the useful KDE classes and perhaps improve on them. End result? Qt gets marginally bigger, kdelibs slim down.
Re:I guess KDE is ok if you really want MS Windows
on
The KDE Future
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· Score: 1
It's useful because it can make things like developing Java or Javascript support much easier and this make Konqueror into a kickass browser. Or take for instance my (perhaps unusful to you) little pet project. A kioslave for the POP3 protocol. This will let you (eventually) browse an index of your mailbox, but clicking on a message will launch whatever app is associated with that mimetype.
'Course if you don't like a specific feature of Konqueror's don't use it, or find another feature.
Re:More advanced software deserves less support??
on
The KDE Future
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· Score: 1
Something like that. Or perhaps it's "It's FUD if Microsoft says it, but the gospel truth if it tumbles out of Miguel's shithole."
What the hell are you talking about? Netscape sucks, XV hasn't been maintained in a while, etc, etc. KDE v. Gnome just spawns more infighting between you Linuxites because the desktop environment is the one thing that many have already conceeded is a Microsoft domain. This is in essence the final frontier.
Your statement reiterates my point. KDE is just now adding CORBA as part of the standard desktop environment.
So what?
It is a testament to the speed of ORBit that it can be used for such mundane tasks without a major increase in overhead.
Have you actually used the Gnome panel? The only noticible impact I saw that CORBA had on the panel was that debugging applets became amazingly more complex, and gdb became a maze of ORBit calls. Yeah, that's something to be proud of.
CORBA is trendy, for sure, but that doesn't make it suitable for everything. CORBA, yes even ORBit, is far from lightweight, and putting it in places where a lightweight IPC service is needed really does nobody any favors.
Gnome had to do a lot more stuff "from scratch" and made its own implementation of Corba and rebuilt GTK. That, given that KDE also had a head start makes complete sense why things aren't as far in the Gnome camp.
Uh no. Not hardly. Gnome was forced to make their own implementation of anything and everything only by their egos. They appear want to reinvent the wheel, and take the credit, shunning any other opensource project as being invalid for some petty reason.
Why should a knee-jerk reaction be given time to catch up?
The reason things aren't as far in the Gnome "camp" is because Miguel et. al. appear to be against cooperation with anyone else. It's either their way or none at all, which is really quite sad. I hold out hope that the respective DOMs will eventually be somewhat compatable, but I sure doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh please. I've had more "per capita" trouble with my previous Linux based ISP (dsp.net/dsp.com) than I have with Hooked -> Wenet -> GST.
DSP was very unorganized and just offered wretched performance. Hooked incidentally ran BSDi modem and smtp+pop3 servers and now has a FreeBSD news server.
So I suspect MS won't be needing to copy the *BSD work. If anything, it looks like they're farther along.
How so? Have you even looked at the *BSD efforts? There are two major stacks that work quite well with the various BSDs, and in fact the US Military has developed a third "major" stack. And MS has one pre-beta one. Hmm. Which is further along?
It's FUD because it can't happen. Have you tried to cut'n'paste the tcp/ip stack from say FreeBSD to Linux. Good luck. Their effort is better spent on developing their own stack.
Besides, if they really wanted to, they could cut'n'paste from Linux. W2K is closed source, so you'd never be able to tell (and don't start screaming about tcp/ip fingerprinting, there's a million reasons why a system might have the same fingerprint).
The daemon aims to be more portable. Not everyone feels the need to be burdened by a GPL'd kernel, or by Linux ya know.
Oh please, if you wanna take issue with reinventing the wheel, take a look at Gnome, take your head out of your ass, and then comment.
Right now, I have no plans to use pppd or Linux at all, and so diald would be useless for me. Oh but that's right, Gnome is Linux only, right?
Sure, Apache is already *stable* on NT. Perhaps it's not as stable as on FreeBSD or somesuch, but it really does work quite well. Take for instance this guy I know, who is for most intensive purpposes a Unix newbie. He was running a web server on 95 (I forget which, but it was one of the free non MS ones), and he eventually switched to Apache. After setting it up, he noted that Apache was much more stable than the previous two software packages he had tried...
Have you been fixed yet?
(and no I don't condone Windows servers)
- alex
Wow, this whole thing makes me want to go out and buy either an iMac or one of those nifty new B&C G3s (alas I don't have that kind of money). 'Course I almost feel bad having this Mac SE in the corner. If only Woz (or anyone for that matter) was charitable enough to donate some RAM, a mouse, and a floppy drive...
As much as everyone but Woz and Balmer were portrayed as jerks, at least Jobs was a jerk with flair (and Balmer a thick necked moron with a sticky stack of Playboys).
kde-devel is *not* a one way street. If you want write access, ask. I'm not so sure I'd be glad to see you with write access however, since you only seem to spew self-righteous flames.
As it stands, you spew out your opinions as if they were the gospel truth. If it's just your opinion, perhaps you should make that clearer when you spew to the press.
There's a difference betteen you "stating your opinion" and what Matthais did. You state your opinion to people in a very public forum, that tends to be followed by slashdot. M.E. stated his in a private forum, intended for people working on KDE.
Why does he imply you have a marketing team? He does? Hmm. I musta missed *that*. Gnome in general gets more coverage on slashdot, and has more rabbid people mentioning every releas on freshmeat, hence, Gnome and Gnumeric tend to be over-hyped.
Why does Miguel think he is so innocent? Mystery. Why does Miguel refer to pink rabbits? It's the crack cocaine.
Yeah and I'd like to try AbiWord, but it's developed by bigots.
P.S. Wake up boy, the GPL isn't free, it puts more restrictions on what you can do with your code than a truely free license would.
There are none. Demand is the driving force behind bindings for these extraneous languages, if enough people want them, someone has enough desire to create one. Hell if you pay me to learn ObjC I'd write the bindings.
Whoop de do. That's all that's important is that it's gecko? *yawn*. Get a life.
Blow me. I'll knock whatever I fucking choose to knock.
:)
PICS support doesn't belong in an HTML widget, period. It's an HTTP (that can easily be abstracted to become HTTP independant) thing.
KHTML already has some JS stubs (read: JavaScript is probably not far off), and some CSS support. Not modern? Try something OO and GUI written in C.
Despite popular FUD, GPL is *not* opensource, it's strangulation of source. Incidentally, khtml is closer to the GPL than the NPL is. Thank you
Uh yeah scores of developers can use Linux and Win32. Whoopie. Mozilla is currently a bitch to compile out of the box, and for that matter so is Gnome. I'd rather just stick with KDE which is thankfully quite easy to build out of the box on my FreeBSD box.
Are you kidding me? You are a fucking idiot.
:)) refuse to consider cooperation.
Gnome was knee-jerk, Baboon besides being a moronic name is also a clear statement of how the Gnome folks (Thanks Miguel, yo te amo tambien
A desktop is a big project, and settling sucks, re-inventing the wheel sucks, you suck, but working together to come up with an even better standard would just rock. Oh yeah, I forgot, Gnome is purely the domain of pre-pubescent males trying to be all l33t. Get over yourself.
Dude. Get your head out of your fucking shithole before you open your mouth. Otherwise you'll end up with a mouthful of crap like you seem to have done. You're calling KDE a rushed relase? Yeah, that's it. Have you even tried to use the Gnome 1.0.0 release? The only thing that sucks more is the whole poorly engineered libcs that Linux distributions appear to be stuck with. KDE 1.0 was *hardly* hurried.
Gee where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, have you heard of Gnome? Oh please don't tell me how Gnome actually offers something KDE doesn't. KDE used CORBA first, worked with multiple languages first, etc, etc.
However, unlike you sir Anonymous Coward, the ImageMagick integration is far from a "widget-wars" response. KDE lacks image manipulation classes, and ImageMagick can provide them. Why should we be stuck with only one set of im classes? I thought that the whole Linux mentality (besides egoism) was diversity? Oh yeah, diversity as long as it's Linux, x86, Gtk+, GNU, etc. Hrm. Gee why does that sound so familiar? Bill Gates perhaps? Nahhhh.
What? When was this opinion expressed on the kde-devel mailing list? Oh yes, I remember. When the topic of Gnome was brought up. This is *not* a duplication of effort at all, as it extends the kimageio class to more image formats than were previously available. This provides a nice clean extensible inteface for displaying graphics. This means one can inline all sorts of weird formats in HTML and Konqy will be able to display it.
Sure imlib does bunches more, that will likely be integrated. But keep in mind that the Gimp team as a whole has been very anti-Qt and in general inflexible when dealing with Qt (kimp comes to mind).
You may call it duplication of effort, but I call it diversity. What's so wrong with a little friendly competition for Gimp. Is the Gimp devel team afraid of another OpenSource image manipulation tool? Hmm.
For the most part, no, I'm not interested in Gimp at all. I'm interested in something that works, not something that makes a knee-jerk political statement.
Yes, but for the time being, I think this is a Win98 Second Edition feature only. It's called ACPI and it's an all encompassing *thing*. Aside from using an unshareable IRQ (#9), it also gives you a soft power switch and another means to provide resource enumeration.
It is actually a rather nice idea, as it tries to sidestep some of the hackish nature of APM.
Keep in mind even the shipping version of Win98SE has horribly buggy ACPI support, even though it tries to be very conservative about when to enable this. My guess is W2K will also have some form of ACPI support.
You can find some more information somewhere on telebit (I think).
Maybe Rob's anti-KDE actions are becoming a bit more blunt, but I really don't see how this is news. KDE has had a HTML widget since pre 1.0 days (someone's even hacked up java support forit too). For that matter even Gnome has had a HTML widget somewhere, right? Hmm.
Steven,
Miguel may have come across as a nice guy, but nice guys do not trash compedetors, they do not spread lies, and all around bullshit. Your loyalties are clear, and you'll backup Miguel no matter what. Blind faith is overrated.
As for your choice of Gnome, IMO you're choosing it for the wrong reasons. Gnome is *not* portable, and in fact I've had a bitch of a time getting it to compile on FreeBSD. FWIW, I think that Gnome has used CORBA in the wrong places. CORBA is a heavy "standard", and putting it to use on the panel is like driving an SUV in the city. It's insane.
But then, CORBA should promote compatibility, right? Wrong. Gnome has chosen to create its own standards, the whole project is a reinvent the wheel type of situation. For instance check out Bonbo or watever it's called and take a look at KOM/OpenParts. Which one has been around longer? Oh yeah, KOM/OpenParts. I don't know really how one can be CORBA compliant. Take a look at Konqueror, KWord, KSpread, etc, etc, they all make strong use of CORBA. Aw hell just sit on the kde-devel list for a while, or read the archives to perhaps get a more accurate opinion.
You obviously don't care to get your facts straight or present an objective opinion, please don't disguise it as such.
Well perhaps you should actually track the kde-devel mailing list. It was just recently that some non bloat inducing features were added. For instance the KConfig class was recently rewritten making it possible to store your configuration files in any format you so choose, as well as making it quite a bit faster.
.kdelnk and .desktop files, making a unified format for these things in the process. So what does this mean? Easier integration betweek KDE apps and Gnome panel, and between Gnome apps and the kpanel.
Oh yes, and KDE will now "officially" check for
You think KDE is slow or bloated? Rewrite something to make it faster and leaner. The TT Trolls have managed to snarf up a lot of the useful KDE classes and perhaps improve on them. End result? Qt gets marginally bigger, kdelibs slim down.
It's useful because it can make things like developing Java or Javascript support much easier and this make Konqueror into a kickass browser. Or take for instance my (perhaps unusful to you) little pet project. A kioslave for the POP3 protocol. This will let you (eventually) browse an index of your mailbox, but clicking on a message will launch whatever app is associated with that mimetype.
'Course if you don't like a specific feature of Konqueror's don't use it, or find another feature.
Something like that. Or perhaps it's "It's FUD if Microsoft says it, but the gospel truth if it tumbles out of Miguel's shithole."
What the hell are you talking about? Netscape sucks, XV hasn't been maintained in a while, etc, etc. KDE v. Gnome just spawns more infighting between you Linuxites because the desktop environment is the one thing that many have already conceeded is a Microsoft domain. This is in essence the final frontier.
Your statement reiterates my point. KDE is just now adding CORBA as part of the standard desktop environment.
So what?
It is a testament to the speed of ORBit that it can be used for such mundane tasks without a major increase in overhead.
Have you actually used the Gnome panel? The only noticible impact I saw that CORBA had on the panel was that debugging applets became amazingly more complex, and gdb became a maze of ORBit calls. Yeah, that's something to be proud of.
CORBA is trendy, for sure, but that doesn't make it suitable for everything. CORBA, yes even ORBit, is far from lightweight, and putting it in places where a lightweight IPC service is needed really does nobody any favors.
Gnome had to do a lot more stuff "from scratch" and made its own implementation of Corba and rebuilt GTK. That, given that KDE also had a head start makes complete sense why things aren't as far in the Gnome camp.
Uh no. Not hardly. Gnome was forced to make their own implementation of anything and everything only by their egos. They appear want to reinvent the wheel, and take the credit, shunning any other opensource project as being invalid for some petty reason.
Why should a knee-jerk reaction be given time to catch up?
The reason things aren't as far in the Gnome "camp" is because Miguel et. al. appear to be against cooperation with anyone else. It's either their way or none at all, which is really quite sad. I hold out hope that the respective DOMs will eventually be somewhat compatable, but I sure doubt that'll happen anytime soon.