Show me the listings where one can find entry level jobs.
I'm looking at Dice and Monster right now. Almost (if not) all the jobs call for SENIOR IT this, SENIOR web developer that. There are few tech support jobs (and even those require college degrees... for God's sake, why do you need to take Physics class to do simple tech support)?
As a manager I'm actually hiring newbs to do tech support and unlike the senior IT positions I am/was looking for, there's really no way for us to cut these resume's down... we get tens of thousands for any one Tech Tier 1 ad that we post. Tens of thousands of resume's.
I won't even get into software testing, tech support's entry level sibling.
Offshoring has eroded the base of new workers who might be able to become qualified for the position you're advertising.
Now you're suffering because the qualified people have jobs elsewhere and all you have left are rank newbs desperately wanting to get in.
They're suffering, and now you are. You don't care about those newbs, so don't look to us for sympathy about your plight either. You made this job market bed, now lie in it like the rest of those workers who have to suffer.
You can't get experience nowadays, since there are no entry level jobs in IT.
Either you've coded a revolutionary new operating system for a Fortune 100 corporation or your resume goes straight in the trash. If you just graduated from college with an IT degree and you have a student loan, you'd better be prepared to work for Wal Mart and file bankruptcy unless you go for a Government job or you got a MBA or learned Hindi/Chinese to go with that tech degree.
On the flip side, as a direct consequence, there's an absolutely BOOMING market for workers willing to amass a boat load of employment references - that is, by doing boat loads of programming work for free. Unpaid internships are now proliferating faster than spam.
Aw, how cute, the Japanese threw us a bone. Arf frickin arf. That's nothing compared to the jobs we've lost. I'd gladly trade a few domestic Toyota jobs for the textile, auto, auto parts, tech and other industry jobs that we lost, as the latter is FAR bigger than the former.
BTW if I ran the country I wouldn't stop offshoring with Europe. They are democratic nations which observe fundamental principles regarding human rights and workers' rights.
Well, when those jobs the Japanese create here, come anywhere close to the jobs that our corporate masters made over there, then I'll have something to say.
If offshoring ended tomorrow we'd theoretically lose those jobs, but we'd gain a hundred times more that left here.
We gain nothing but a huge swollen national debt because of this.
Toyota, like all the other Japanese companies, have developed an immense auto industry because of earlier-era offshoring.
Their workers became managers.
Their managers became CEOs.
All of whom are paid far less than their American counterparts.
They under cut us with price.
They then attracted all the auto research&design people because that's where the work was, since the Big Three in the US (including Chrysler) started cutting R&D and production jobs.
All the big thinkers now work for Toyota, Honda, etc., and the last few cows not yet taken to the butcher, work for the US big three.
Japan also had another BIG advantage against American corporations: they think long term. US corporations cannot ever think past the next quarter because of their shareholders.
Fine, may I get your address so I can send you a rope to hang yourself? You are just giving up, and arguing with my point of view just for the sake of argument:) What is so bad about trying your hardest? And for that matter, what is so good about abandoning something that the U.S. takes pride in (ie. the tech industry). I read about the people's worries that everything about the U.S. is going downhill due to outsourcing and globalization. If people like you had their way, the U.S. economy would be destroyed in a tsunami of under confidence, and lack of innovative thought. And will it be good enough to switch into another industry (like finance...), just for that industry to be destroyed by the same means?
I bet the people who threw pails of water out of the Titanic tried their hardest too, but like the band that played on, their denial didn't save anyone. You're just like them.
And I am going to repeat my question that you were most afraid to answer:
1) Name one adaptation that you can do that the East Indians can't eventually do ahead of you;
As for your comments about the auto industry, name one thing that they can do to beat the Japanese. Name one innovation that the auto industry can come up with that the Japanese can't do ahead of them, and cheaper. Answer the question... unless you're scared? How is Chrysler adapting in ways that the Japanese can't, or let's handicap this in your favor... how is Chrysler adapting in ways that the Japanese aren't adapting already? I'll wait right here with baited breath for your answer.
And as for the rest of your globalist, head-in-the-sand toady commentary, I challenge you again. Name me one competitive advantage an IT worker can gain that someone abroad can't. I'm putting your ostrichist theory to the test by demanding of you some real world application here, and you just can't seem to deliver anything but your wild speculation. I on the other hand have the backing of recent history to affirm my predictions.
Now that your clumsy little victory dance as ended with two sprained ankles, I will explain to you why you can't answer me, 'k?
Let's take biotech as an example. One of those shining examples you should have come up with as a budding new industry. Biotech, alas, is moving research and development offshore. Just in case your perusals of the Council on Foreign Relations propaganda site didn't explain what this means to you, it means that biotech companies are moving innovation, as well as grunt lab work, overseas. That means Americans are now getting cut out of the opportunity to participate in the R&D/innovation phase of the biotech industry.
But wait, that's not all.
The sweet deal is that people in India are now free to steal that intellectual property incubating right there in India and make their own biotech companies to compete internationally. For that matter, America is being swamped right now with knockoff products as a result of this.
Is your brain exploding yet? No?
Good, then I will explain further.
You see, knockoffs come in two ways. One, they are products that have been declared "defective" (which is why we see the "80% defect rate" problem overseas), but which are repackaged under a different brand, and sold in the US. Your ubercapitalist President is against stopping these products from coming here, mind you. Then, way #2, knockoffs are produced in the same legitimate factory that the original, legitimate product is made, except they're produced in off hours. Then, once again, they're repackaged and sold here.
Nowadays, it's going to be even easier. The R&D is overseas, which means there won't be any lag time where the newest and best is made here, then moved over there later on; it's now researched over there and made over there. The knockoffs will be on the market as soon as the very first legitimate product is on the market.
So, where am I going with this sky is falling scenario? Simple. Google Cherry QQ and Chevrolet Spark and then google Huawei and Cisco. Those are two very sold victims of IP theft, thanks to offshore outsourcing.
And this time, please spare me your right wing "documentation" next time...
1) Name one adaptation that you can do that the East Indians can't eventually do ahead of you;
2) Why didn't this work for the auto industry;
3) Do you even know what happened to the auto industry?
You can adapt all you want to, and innovate until your face turns blue, but one day the offshore people will acquire enough experience that they'll be running neck and neck with your innovations at cheaper prices. This is exactly what happened to the auto industry.
Also, the "outsourcing bogeyman" does not address the fact that there will never be a new industry to replace the ones that are going overseas now. Until we go into outerspace, biotech is the limit of technological progress. Disagree? Fine. Show me. Until then, don't even bother wasting my time with your speculations. Our best jobs are going overseas and nothing is coming to replace them.
PS: Your "Outsourcing Bogeyman" article is written by the Council on Foreign Relations, a corporate think tank comprised by the very people who BENEFIT from offshoring. To put the dishonesty of your "documentation" into proper perspective, it would be no more dishonest for me to counter you with something from moveon.org.
Cry? Hardly. I manage a data center and I'm Series 7 and California insurance licensed on my own dime (which hints at which part of the tech industry I'm in). If my tech job goes away due to offshoring, I'm ready to leave tech forever, and I will. I'll sell annuities and do an Obi Wan Kenobi and become one with the fraggin' financial Force.
I'm prepared to abandon ship. You can feel free to join the band when it hits the ice berg if you want.
Everything you think you can do to make yourself more valuable and to provide that extra 'something', the guy in India can duplicate for less.
Then his home grown management will do the same for pennies on the dollar, and soon after that their home grown CEO will as well. They'll undercut America from the worker level to the officer level and...
well...
Look at what Toyota did to Chrysler, GM and Ford: the big Three are on life support now, and Japan, the world's first offshore beneficiary and global undercutter of auto prices, now effectively dominates the market.
What happened in the auto industry will happen to tech, too.
Mind you, these are historical facts, not head-in-the-sand denialism by the globalist ostriches.
Well, considering how many IT jobs have gone overseas and the number of software engineers who are out of work now because of it, well, there's a reason for that thinking. Or did you miss the new offices that Intel, MicroSoft and other companies are opening up in India for new software engineers?
"If you're not a corporate statist, you're a God-hating communist."
What died when the Berlin Wall fell, is a horribly anti-Democratic state. America's economy has been partially socialist in nature since the 1930's, and the last time it wasn't - in the 1920's - it resulted in a Great Depression.
The facts clearly say that while Godless Communism died in the 1980s, Godless Capitalism died in 1929.
Don't you realize that without the promise of profit, no one is going to invent anything anymore?
Without the ability to sue thousands of people and hold everyone hostage for 20 years to your IP, there won't be any progress!
Imagine if there wasn't capitalism at the time of the discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel, and the creation of Linux.. er, wait a minute......
You're claiming that someone failing to pay a hospital bill is a thief. That's really good. I don't even need to debate this with you, anonymous coward... you're just a retard.
Slashdot Mirror
except for minor things like, well, you know, sed, awk, ls, grep...
and about 10,000 other *ahem* pissant things that make Linux and unix in general useable and competitive against Micro$oft.
Necessity, not profit, is the mother of invention.
If it's needed, it'll get done.
I wonder why...
0 5cavallo
Exxon-Mobil announces that PEAK OIL is coming in 5 years:
http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=mj
Mind you, this is a major oil corporation, not some environmentalist "whacko" group...
Show me the listings where one can find entry level jobs.
... we get tens of thousands for any one Tech Tier 1 ad that we post. Tens of thousands of resume's.
I'm looking at Dice and Monster right now. Almost (if not) all the jobs call for SENIOR IT this, SENIOR web developer that. There are few tech support jobs (and even those require college degrees... for God's sake, why do you need to take Physics class to do simple tech support)?
As a manager I'm actually hiring newbs to do tech support and unlike the senior IT positions I am/was looking for, there's really no way for us to cut these resume's down
I won't even get into software testing, tech support's entry level sibling.
... and sent to Clinton by a Republican Congress.
Let's hope the Democratic Congress can be the agent for change here.
but yours also.
A healthy and robust economy, supported by a strong middle class, is a dire necessity for a capitalist society.
Without that, yes, my nest egg will go boom, but your life will also be very very very harsh...
Offshoring has eroded the base of new workers who might be able to become qualified for the position you're advertising.
Now you're suffering because the qualified people have jobs elsewhere and all you have left are rank newbs desperately wanting to get in.
They're suffering, and now you are. You don't care about those newbs, so don't look to us for sympathy about your plight either. You made this job market bed, now lie in it like the rest of those workers who have to suffer.
You can't get experience nowadays, since there are no entry level jobs in IT.
Either you've coded a revolutionary new operating system for a Fortune 100 corporation or your resume goes straight in the trash. If you just graduated from college with an IT degree and you have a student loan, you'd better be prepared to work for Wal Mart and file bankruptcy unless you go for a Government job or you got a MBA or learned Hindi/Chinese to go with that tech degree.
On the flip side, as a direct consequence, there's an absolutely BOOMING market for workers willing to amass a boat load of employment references - that is, by doing boat loads of programming work for free. Unpaid internships are now proliferating faster than spam.
Aw, how cute, the Japanese threw us a bone. Arf frickin arf. That's nothing compared to the jobs we've lost. I'd gladly trade a few domestic Toyota jobs for the textile, auto, auto parts, tech and other industry jobs that we lost, as the latter is FAR bigger than the former.
BTW if I ran the country I wouldn't stop offshoring with Europe. They are democratic nations which observe fundamental principles regarding human rights and workers' rights.
Well, when those jobs the Japanese create here, come anywhere close to the jobs that our corporate masters made over there, then I'll have something to say.
If offshoring ended tomorrow we'd theoretically lose those jobs, but we'd gain a hundred times more that left here.
We gain nothing but a huge swollen national debt because of this.
Your post asserts the importance of long term thinking to minds that can only think as far as the next NASCAR race.
Republicans engaged in phone jamming in 2004:
8 29056
c le/2006/05/16/AR2006051601712.html
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1
a Republican official was CONVICTED of this, too:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti
That proves my point exactly.
Toyota, like all the other Japanese companies, have developed an immense auto industry because of earlier-era offshoring.
Their workers became managers.
Their managers became CEOs.
All of whom are paid far less than their American counterparts.
They under cut us with price.
They then attracted all the auto research&design people because that's where the work was, since the Big Three in the US (including Chrysler) started cutting R&D and production jobs.
All the big thinkers now work for Toyota, Honda, etc., and the last few cows not yet taken to the butcher, work for the US big three.
Japan also had another BIG advantage against American corporations: they think long term. US corporations cannot ever think past the next quarter because of their shareholders.
Your point actually proves what I said...
I bet the people who threw pails of water out of the Titanic tried their hardest too, but like the band that played on, their denial didn't save anyone. You're just like them.
And I am going to repeat my question that you were most afraid to answer:
1) Name one adaptation that you can do that the East Indians can't eventually do ahead of you;
As for your comments about the auto industry, name one thing that they can do to beat the Japanese. Name one innovation that the auto industry can come up with that the Japanese can't do ahead of them, and cheaper. Answer the question... unless you're scared? How is Chrysler adapting in ways that the Japanese can't, or let's handicap this in your favor... how is Chrysler adapting in ways that the Japanese aren't adapting already? I'll wait right here with baited breath for your answer.
And as for the rest of your globalist, head-in-the-sand toady commentary, I challenge you again. Name me one competitive advantage an IT worker can gain that someone abroad can't. I'm putting your ostrichist theory to the test by demanding of you some real world application here, and you just can't seem to deliver anything but your wild speculation. I on the other hand have the backing of recent history to affirm my predictions.
Now that your clumsy little victory dance as ended with two sprained ankles, I will explain to you why you can't answer me, 'k?
Let's take biotech as an example. One of those shining examples you should have come up with as a budding new industry. Biotech, alas, is moving research and development offshore. Just in case your perusals of the Council on Foreign Relations propaganda site didn't explain what this means to you, it means that biotech companies are moving innovation, as well as grunt lab work, overseas. That means Americans are now getting cut out of the opportunity to participate in the R&D/innovation phase of the biotech industry.
But wait, that's not all.
The sweet deal is that people in India are now free to steal that intellectual property incubating right there in India and make their own biotech companies to compete internationally. For that matter, America is being swamped right now with knockoff products as a result of this.
Is your brain exploding yet? No?
Good, then I will explain further.
You see, knockoffs come in two ways. One, they are products that have been declared "defective" (which is why we see the "80% defect rate" problem overseas), but which are repackaged under a different brand, and sold in the US. Your ubercapitalist President is against stopping these products from coming here, mind you. Then, way #2, knockoffs are produced in the same legitimate factory that the original, legitimate product is made, except they're produced in off hours. Then, once again, they're repackaged and sold here.
Nowadays, it's going to be even easier. The R&D is overseas, which means there won't be any lag time where the newest and best is made here, then moved over there later on; it's now researched over there and made over there. The knockoffs will be on the market as soon as the very first legitimate product is on the market.
So, where am I going with this sky is falling scenario? Simple. Google Cherry QQ and Chevrolet Spark and then google Huawei and Cisco. Those are two very sold victims of IP theft, thanks to offshore outsourcing.
And this time, please spare me your right wing "documentation" next time...
1) Name one adaptation that you can do that the East Indians can't eventually do ahead of you;
2) Why didn't this work for the auto industry;
3) Do you even know what happened to the auto industry?
You can adapt all you want to, and innovate until your face turns blue, but one day the offshore people will acquire enough experience that they'll be running neck and neck with your innovations at cheaper prices. This is exactly what happened to the auto industry.
Also, the "outsourcing bogeyman" does not address the fact that there will never be a new industry to replace the ones that are going overseas now. Until we go into outerspace, biotech is the limit of technological progress. Disagree? Fine. Show me. Until then, don't even bother wasting my time with your speculations. Our best jobs are going overseas and nothing is coming to replace them.
PS: Your "Outsourcing Bogeyman" article is written by the Council on Foreign Relations, a corporate think tank comprised by the very people who BENEFIT from offshoring. To put the dishonesty of your "documentation" into proper perspective, it would be no more dishonest for me to counter you with something from moveon.org.
Next?
And THOSE jobs can't go overseas. Sweet.
Cry? Hardly. I manage a data center and I'm Series 7 and California insurance licensed on my own dime (which hints at which part of the tech industry I'm in). If my tech job goes away due to offshoring, I'm ready to leave tech forever, and I will. I'll sell annuities and do an Obi Wan Kenobi and become one with the fraggin' financial Force.
I'm prepared to abandon ship. You can feel free to join the band when it hits the ice berg if you want.
Everything you think you can do to make yourself more valuable and to provide that extra 'something', the guy in India can duplicate for less.
...
Then his home grown management will do the same for pennies on the dollar, and soon after that their home grown CEO will as well. They'll undercut America from the worker level to the officer level and
well...
Look at what Toyota did to Chrysler, GM and Ford: the big Three are on life support now, and Japan, the world's first offshore beneficiary and global undercutter of auto prices, now effectively dominates the market.
What happened in the auto industry will happen to tech, too.
Mind you, these are historical facts, not head-in-the-sand denialism by the globalist ostriches.
Well, considering how many IT jobs have gone overseas and the number of software engineers who are out of work now because of it, well, there's a reason for that thinking. Or did you miss the new offices that Intel, MicroSoft and other companies are opening up in India for new software engineers?
both dialects of Chinese and as many dialects of Hindi as possible.
Also consider working at Best Buy if for nothing else but to get money to move to a fashionable part of Bangalore, India.
Any job you are thinking of getting training for now, will be gone by the time you get out.
"If you're not a corporate statist, you're a God-hating communist."
What died when the Berlin Wall fell, is a horribly anti-Democratic state. America's economy has been partially socialist in nature since the 1930's, and the last time it wasn't - in the 1920's - it resulted in a Great Depression.
The facts clearly say that while Godless Communism died in the 1980s, Godless Capitalism died in 1929.
Get over it, neither are never coming back.
Don't you realize that without the promise of profit, no one is going to invent anything anymore?
Without the ability to sue thousands of people and hold everyone hostage for 20 years to your IP, there won't be any progress!
Imagine if there wasn't capitalism at the time of the discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel, and the creation of Linux.. er, wait a minute......
Now you've really exposed yourself as a fraud.
You're claiming that someone failing to pay a hospital bill is a thief. That's really good. I don't even need to debate this with you, anonymous coward... you're just a retard.
Don't screw with an arteest's work. You must watch the work as the arteest intended or you won't get the effect that the arteest intended.
phishers, especially when they get caught, tried, convicted and imprisoned?
Keyloggers do transmit to certain IP addresses.