>If at some point you need a kidney transplant you might end up pissing on my grave using my own kidney. Maybe if you ever need a transplant you'll think twice about a persons legacy and what it has to do with the matter they're made out of.
I wish I had mod points.
That is the most hilarious reply I have seen for a long while.
>However, I will fully put the blame on the PLCs. Those little suckers come in handy but if you don't completely understand every line of code and every instruction they can f_ck you over.
One of my teachers worked as system architect in nuclear plant. And he taught me the concept of proving critical pieces of software.
Proving means that you know every possible state for your software, that means that you know on every instruction what the register values are and exact memory contents. Thus you know every possible logical state that your software can enter.
I once did this to one embedded project, that HAD to work, as we were going to build 10000s of units. Took me about a month to do, but after that there was not single bug found in the product lifetime.
>I've worked in IT a while now & have never heard of a "data storm".
I used to work as embedded developer, and we used that term.
It was used in embedded communications when one or several devices went bonkers and flooded common bus. Bit like packet storm, but without IP or other packet protocol, so it was called data storm.
It stands to reason that in nuclear plant there are a lot of old fogeys, so company jargon might be bit outdated and odd sounding to outsider.
--- Such failures are common among PLC and supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) systems, because the manufacturers do not test the devices' handling of bad data, said Dale Peterson, CEO of industrial system security firm DigitalBond.
"What is happening in this marketplace is that vendors will build their own (network) stacks to make it cheaper," Peterson said. "And it works, but when (the device) gets anything that it didn't expect, it will gag."
In many cases, a simple vulnerability scan will even cause the devices to crash, Peterson said. During tests in an electrical substation, Nessus running in safe scan mode crashed devices, he said. In some cases, sending out broadcast data on the network will crash several of connected devices, he added. ---
Scary, and really strange.
All pipes, pumps and other physical components have to pass multiple safety and quality checks before they are allowed as plant constructions materials.
While it seems that computing components don't have even rudimentary interoperability checks.
It seems that US nuclear safety board (or whatever is the name) is dangerously computer illiterate. Not a good thing.
One of my programming teachers was a retired system architect for Finnish nuclear power plant, and he had bit different stories to tell how they tested computer systems. In one lecture that turned into a story of how they did things taught me more about software testing than I have gotten on any other course after that:)
>being that nationalistic pride is a fault of every single country that currently exists and ever has existed, i think you need to readjust your blind spot on the "incorruptibility" of estonia
Hello, this is reality calling.
World is not just black and white, as I said I refuse to believe that national pride would be the only motivation. All decisions, especially political ones are combination of several factors and several motivations.
You are accusing me of having blind spot, while on the same time you are focusing only one motivation.
You are free to concentrate on a single aspect of the issue all you like, but please don't make the intellectual folly of assuming that world is as simple as you would like it to be.
I am still not convinced that it was only the national pride that prompted removal of the status just before victory day.
Maybe Estonian government has just had enough of unrest and did not want to see a single drunkfest more in downtown Tallin. Boy how wrong they were on what response they would get.
>if estonians were so superior and above all this lowly nationalistic nonsense, they wouldn't have cared about removing the statue. the truth is of course that estonians are deeply insulted by the statue, and it is a point of estonian pride to remove it
The statue has also practical meaning.
It has become focus point of Russian nationalists in Estonia who are Estonian version of neo nazis.
Given any excuses those nationalists used to gather near the statue, get drunk and start breaking places, and in many cases also people, including tourists.
The problems did get bad enough that Finnish tourists were advised to steer clear of the statue during night.
And since tourism is important income to Estonia, it is clear that the statue had to go.
They could have picked better time to do it, like couple months after victory day celebrations.
Actually the Estonian response has been textbook example on how to fight DOS.
Almost all pages that have been attacked have been in Estonian, and have been such that only someone living in country might have use for.
So they have excluded outside traffic in favour of serving those who actually have use for the pages.
Exactly the same I would do if I would be responsible of pages that have 99% of user base in same country.
Sucks for those Estonians living outside of Estonia, but needs of many outweigh needs of few in this case.
Slashdot Mirror
>If at some point you need a kidney transplant you might end up pissing on my grave using my own kidney. Maybe if you ever need a transplant you'll think twice about a persons legacy and what it has to do with the matter they're made out of.
I wish I had mod points.
That is the most hilarious reply I have seen for a long while.
>However, I will fully put the blame on the PLCs. Those little suckers come in handy but if you don't completely understand every line of code and every instruction they can f_ck you over.
One of my teachers worked as system architect in nuclear plant.
And he taught me the concept of proving critical pieces of software.
Proving means that you know every possible state for your software, that means that you know on every instruction what the register values are and exact memory contents.
Thus you know every possible logical state that your software can enter.
I once did this to one embedded project, that HAD to work, as we were going to build 10000s of units.
Took me about a month to do, but after that there was not single bug found in the product lifetime.
>I've worked in IT a while now & have never heard of a "data storm".
I used to work as embedded developer, and we used that term.
It was used in embedded communications when one or several devices went bonkers and flooded common bus.
Bit like packet storm, but without IP or other packet protocol, so it was called data storm.
It stands to reason that in nuclear plant there are a lot of old fogeys, so company jargon might be bit outdated and odd sounding to outsider.
From article
:)
---
Such failures are common among PLC and supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) systems, because the manufacturers do not test the devices' handling of bad data, said Dale Peterson, CEO of industrial system security firm DigitalBond.
"What is happening in this marketplace is that vendors will build their own (network) stacks to make it cheaper," Peterson said. "And it works, but when (the device) gets anything that it didn't expect, it will gag."
In many cases, a simple vulnerability scan will even cause the devices to crash, Peterson said. During tests in an electrical substation, Nessus running in safe scan mode crashed devices, he said. In some cases, sending out broadcast data on the network will crash several of connected devices, he added.
---
Scary, and really strange.
All pipes, pumps and other physical components have to pass multiple safety and quality checks before they are allowed as plant constructions materials.
While it seems that computing components don't have even rudimentary interoperability checks.
It seems that US nuclear safety board (or whatever is the name) is dangerously computer illiterate. Not a good thing.
One of my programming teachers was a retired system architect for Finnish nuclear power plant, and he had bit different stories to tell how they tested computer systems.
In one lecture that turned into a story of how they did things taught me more about software testing than I have gotten on any other course after that
So fortunately it is not that bad everywhere.
>They could just do proper multiplayer asset protection -
But why should the waste time and effort in something that is forbidden by their licence anyway.
Game console is not a PC, if you modify it MS has no reason why they should allow it on the network anymore.
Although I do have to admit that I had hacked original Xbox for media player, but I also had a switch to disable the mod when playing in Live.
I give up.
It does not matter whether I agree or disagree with you. You just keep repeating the same song all over.
You truly are able to see only your own words. I hope that you grow up some day.
And why don't you read posts before you reply to them?
I have already said following in two previous posts
"as I said I refuse to believe that national pride would be the only motivation"
Notice the word only, it means that I do agree that national part is a part of the motivation. But it is not the only one.
Some reading comprehension would help, if you don't want to look like total dolt in conversation.
Finnish company Container finance is building cargo terminal in Kronstadt in Russia.
And now couple weeks after Estonian incident st Petersburg city decided that the land is immediately ceded to Rosstroi dam works as storage area.
Of course this is breach of all contracts and serious breach of international contract law. So something really strange is going on in Russia
More info:
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/St+Petersburg+cal ls+off+extension+of+Finnish+cargo+port+/1135226958 211
Hello, this is reality calling.
World is not just black and white, as I said I refuse to believe that national pride would be the only motivation. All decisions, especially political ones are combination of several factors and several motivations.
You are accusing me of having blind spot, while on the same time you are focusing only one motivation.
You are free to concentrate on a single aspect of the issue all you like, but please don't make the intellectual folly of assuming that world is as simple as you would like it to be.
Maybe Estonian government has just had enough of unrest and did not want to see a single drunkfest more in downtown Tallin. Boy how wrong they were on what response they would get.
The statue has also practical meaning.
It has become focus point of Russian nationalists in Estonia who are Estonian version of neo nazis. Given any excuses those nationalists used to gather near the statue, get drunk and start breaking places, and in many cases also people, including tourists.
The problems did get bad enough that Finnish tourists were advised to steer clear of the statue during night.
And since tourism is important income to Estonia, it is clear that the statue had to go. They could have picked better time to do it, like couple months after victory day celebrations.
Actually the Estonian response has been textbook example on how to fight DOS. Almost all pages that have been attacked have been in Estonian, and have been such that only someone living in country might have use for. So they have excluded outside traffic in favour of serving those who actually have use for the pages. Exactly the same I would do if I would be responsible of pages that have 99% of user base in same country. Sucks for those Estonians living outside of Estonia, but needs of many outweigh needs of few in this case.