Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Bans Modified Xbox 360s From Xbox Live
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live, possibly using information brought in by the Crackdown-originated Halo 3 beta downloads. Scene site forums have already collapsed under traffic, and Microsoft has officially confirmed that they are banning modded Xbox 360s to keep the online playing field fair and level."
I, for one, welcome our console-modding overlords to the PS3. Or does Sony have a similar policy? I wouldn't know; I'm perfectly happy with my PS3 and DS.
Queue the "Microsoft banned my UNmodified box" stories...
Why should I buy a XBox360 when I can't mod it?
What does banning altered consoles have to do with keeping online play 'fair and level'?
I thought that copies are identical to the originals.
What I'm saying is that unlike software (including music), you don't buy a license to use/listen to it. You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it. Now, if you do something that is enabling you to cheat in the game (and breaking the software license), then I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't ban you and the console. However, if you mod it in a way that does not affect gameplay, why should you be banned?
--Thomas J. Owens
wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume it was from the spring dash update, because not everyone downloaded the Halo3 demo. Everyone rushed to get the dash update becasue (at the time) it was confirmed that it was working with modified firmware. simple solution, don't play backups on LIVE.
No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii
Wait.. Microsoft wants your Wii?
I don't see an problem with Microsoft banning people with DVD drives modified to play copied games. It makes it fair for the honest people who payed good money to play. If people with unmodified boxes start getting banned by mistake, then that would be something to worry about.
There's nothing wrong with anti-piracy measures so long as they're unobtrusive and don't effect people with legitimate copies.
In an ideal world people would be able to mod their DVD players to their heart's content without having to worry about things like this.
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. As a Live player who frequently encounters modders who use their modifications to gain unfair (read ridiculous) advantage over the competition. It's no fun to play the game and service you're paying for when you have opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
It's their network, why shouldn't they ban people that don't play by their rules?
I say this as somebody that purchased a 360 less than a week ago, and loaded up the hacked firmware for my drive less than 24 hours ago.
Am I bummed? Not really. It's a private network, they can do whatever they like with it. Doing anything I want with my hardware sure as shit is my right, but I shouldn't expect other people to be forced to allow me to play on their servers like it's some base human right being violated.
If you bought an XBox 360, you bought in to a closed platform. The manufacturer made it quite clear that there was no intention of allowing you to use the 360 as a general purpose computer*. They tried hard to prevent you modifying it, and this is just another part of that. You wanted to be able to do whatever you wanted with the hardware? You shouldn't have bought a locked-down trusted computer from the world's most aggressive software monopolist, then.
Think with your $s and don't buy a trusted computer, even if it is disguised as a games console.
(* using the FSF meaning of this term, rather than the Bill Gates "it plays videos as well as games" meaning)
But this seems like it's mostly going to hurt people who pick up 360's off ebay, or second hand somewhere else. These banned boxes are going to be dumped, the people will probably rehack with a more undetectable hack, and the poor schmuck who buys their old box is going to be in for a big surprise.
Posted by yintercept - "...science...[is] the study of the 'divine creation.' "
We'll probably just see the same thing that we did with the first XBox: a modchip with an external switch connected that can tell it to disable itself and let the original drive firmware load. Of course, setting it up probably won't be as easy as it was in the XBox 1 (which had a nice little LPC port that you could get the system to load a different BIOS from by just shorting one solder point to ground)... it may be necessary to actually remove the firmware ROM chips from the drive and wire in a new switched bank with copies of both the original and the modified firmware, but it certainly seems doable.
Another issue that slightly complicates things is the fact that the 360 signs you in to XBox live by default when you have an active network connection, so modders will have to be careful to unplug their ethernet cables when the switch is turned on. One vulnerability remains, though, and that is that Microsoft may choose to push out a dashboard update which checks for the drive's original firmware on EVERY bootup, and remembers to tattle to XBox live as soon as you sign on. Microsoft could choose to store this data on the hard drive/memory card (in which case it could be defeated by having a pair of storage devices, one for modded and unmodded use), or they could put it in the 360's internal flash storage, where the dashboard and system software itself is stored (no easy solution for that one, but I don't know enough about the 360's internals to know if the internal storage is flash RAM, which makes this easy, or an EEPROM, which would seem to require that the dashboard reflash itself with the new variable set every time that happens).
Anyway, it does seem that it is possible to defeat this scheme. I'd also like to note that Microsoft's stated reason for the update is bullshit, since even with the drive's firmware flashed, the 360 will still only load Microsoft-signed executables (meaning that it can play backups of original games, but is useless for homebrew and modified games). They might as well just come out and say that it's a measure to defeat privacy, since they've locked out homebrew programs anyway (with the exception of their XNA creator's club program, which lets you run only games written for their limited API, and only in C#, instead of giving access to the full-on devkit that the pros use). Couching it in pro-gamer language about defeating cheaters is disingenuous.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
There is a difference between steroids (modding to cheat) and practice time.
While the end result may be the same insofar as those who have more time play better, whining about your circumstance and complaining that you can't compete is pretty pathetic.
The only reason I pay my Xbox Live subscription is to play on a clean network with no cheating. Granted, I have seen cheating, but it is very rare compared to say... any PC game. And it is usually quickly fixed. Like the vast majority of people, I bought my Xbox 360 to play games, I did not buy it to mod it. The *most important* thing in any competitive game or sport is fairness; skill, talent, and practice should be the only deciding factors in the outcome. If you want to mod yours, fine, but I don't want to see you on Xbox Live, which is a *private* network. The reason why there is such little cheating on Xbox Live is that it is detected at the hardware level, *not* on a per game basis like in PC Games. This is why I pay, and this is why I prefer to play FPSs on Xbox Live. Sure, I would rather play with a mouse and keyboard, but fair competition is the most important thing in online play.
They were regularly banning modded XBoxes. A friend of mine bought himself a second machine for online play which would have been nice for Microsoft if it wasn't for the huge loss they were making on every console at the time.
Nothing new here leopards don't change their spots after all.
Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.
I, for one, am disappointed with the Wii. Zelda was great, but other good games are few. What happened to Smash Bros and Metroid being launch titles? Also, whats to prevent Sony and M$ from developing similar motion sensitive controllers (Sony is sorta doing it with the six axis)? If and when they do, with their far superior hardware, it will be bye-bye Wii. I can't help but feel the Wii is gimmicky. In the long run, I think it will suffer the same fate as the GameCube- a decent system with a FEW really good games and a bunch of crap.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
First off, everybody should have seen this coming - they did this with the first XBox console.
Second, what are the benefits (outside of copying games illegitimately and cheating) would you have by modding your XBox 360? I haven't had any incentive to purchase the 360 because outside of better graphics and new games, my old, mod'd XBox can provide me all the same functionality. At least with the first gen XBox, modding gave you DVD playback (without the need to purchase the stupid dongle), music and movie file playback (i.e. off a file server on the network), potential to install a full Linux distro like Xebian (and the potential to use it as a MythTV front-end), etc... I'm honestly curious to know how I could maximize my bang-for-my-buck by modding an XBox 360 - how else might I be able to use that hardware, similar to the old XBox?
Additionally, no matter how much they try, there will always be people bent on cheating in live. Playing Halo 2 over my friend's Live account a few times was a crumby experience for me with the abundance of cheaters out there (and no, I'm not saying that b/c I'm a sore looser, but there comes a point in time that it is horribly obvious somebody is cheating), but I'm not so optimistic this will help much. Honestly, I have never purchased a live account, and I don't ever intend to purchase one (which is part of why I won't purchase a 360 - for that and other reasons).
ban everyone. Then you will send everyone to the most level playing field of them all, the Wii platform.
And once again, you fail to realize that peripherals NEVER do well in the market place. The fact of the matter is that Both Sony and MS could develop their own motion sensing (Nintendo patented theirs), but it won't really catch on until the next generation when they bundle it.
Look, man, if you want it any more fair than a level playing ground, participate in the special Olympics. Microsoft might suck, a lot, but by no means is it obligated to help everyone feel better about themselves.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they only people with "Unmodded" xboxes that got banned are the ones who de-modded their xbox post-ban and are now trying to play it off as if they have no idea what happened.
I'd do the same damn thing - in fact - I'll have to do the same damn thing if I can't get my original firmware restored. That mod is entirely the only reason I even have a floppy drive any more.
Wow, this actually looks like a PRO MS thread on /. and the other day I could swear that the last one about the Iphone was kind of negative to apple.
*Does Not Compute*
*Head Explodes*
I'm actually suprised this hasn't happened already...
"If they didn't want you to mod the box at all, they could just brick it."
Sure. And as soon as they did that, people would take it back to the store where they bought it and say "doesn't work".
I'm not disagreeing with the policy of not allowing modded boxes on Live!, but to suggest that modding a box would be grounds to destroy my property is neither a legal or ethical.
You might not prefer a Wii if you owned a 50" HDTV. The difference is night-and-day. Its really too bad that Nintendo couldn't manage 720p.
Ever play guitar hero? And what would prevent Sony or M$ from bundling a motion-sensitive controller in future releases of their consoles? In the end, it all comes down to the quality of the games available. I've owned a Wii since December, and I haven't seen anything other than Zelda that makes the console worth owning. And even that is just a GameCube game with and updated control scheme.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
Since it is selling really well a lot of support from big companies is bound to be coming.
Did nobody else find it seemingly coincidental that the banning of modded 360s was orchestrated through a game called "Crackdown"?
All anti-piracy measures are an affront to our liberty, punish legitimate users, and are a waste of money that the consumer has to pay for. Did I mention the slippery slope?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
You're absolutely correct- if the games you play on Live were against any random player, you'd very likely be playing with someone with vastly different skills (either better or worse depending on how much time they play relative to you or other factors). That's why Microsoft implemented the "TrueSkill" system into the Live infrastructure; the games you play are usually against people of similar skill. For each game (and I believe also for each genre) you have a "trueskill" rating based on your gameplay. Matchmaking attempts to create matches between players of similar "trueskill" ratings (but it doesn't always work for low-population games or folks who haven't played a lot of games yet).
Halo has it's own similar internal matchmaking system developed by Bungie that includes the ability to match "parties" of similar skill (that's not an ability built into the standard API all developers have access to).
I agree that the Wii's game line-up is pretty weak right now, there are some good games on the horizon, but there is still a need for good third party IPs.
However, considering the sales thus far in both hardware and game attach rates, (paraphrasing VG cats and Penny Arcade) I'm sure Nintendo is just crying all the way to the bank. Lying awake at night on pillows of money.
I think missed a word in that sentence.
The only way to prevent bios hack detection on the original Xbox was to use a modchip with a switch, and actually switch to the official BIOS when playing on Live. Also you HAD to lock your HDD if you upgraded, because it would detected the unlocked drive.
There's no reason to believe the 360 should be any different.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
A purpose-built controller meant for one game doesn't really prove your point. A lot of DDR mats were sold too, but I don't see those being used for general gameplay, either.
Developers aren't likely to support something that didn't come with the system as it limits the amount of people they can sell their game to. There's a reason why Guitar Hero came with the guitar.
Am I the only one that reads the verbose EULAs anymore? I thought that modded Xboxes of any generation were already banned from Live (I can't check the old EULA to be sure anymore beause the new one is up.) As someone previously stated, you buy the hardware and can do whatever you want with it, but Live is not hardware. (This doesn't touch on the fact that the dashboard is software that Microsoft probably claims is licensed rather than sold to you, and that they can revoke the license at any time.) I could add jet engines to my Camero, and as long as I rented a private airfield to use it I'd be fine. But my Jet-Camero wouldn't be street legal. And if it looked like Bumblebee when it turned into a robot, I'd have the MPAA, Hasbro, and Takara all after me. Wait, we were talking about Transformers, right? Anyway, you can mod all you want, but Live is the (pivately owned) public street, and mods aren't street legal.
"Ever play guitar hero?"
What? you can use the guitar for anything else than playing guitar hero?
"And what would prevent Sony or M$ from bundling a motion-sensitive controller in future releases of their consoles?"
pissing off previous customer?
"In the end, it all comes down to the quality of the games available. I've owned a Wii since December, and I haven't seen anything other than Zelda that makes the console worth owning. And even that is just a GameCube game with and updated control scheme."
Ever consider the fact that to develop a game it takes times?
also you should have been prepared to buy a few concept games like Elebits to have a proper view of what the Wii is available, but since you're the kind of shallow gamer that won't see beyond grades given in "professional" reviews it won't happen
This view will of course be 100% unpopular among the legions of Xbox Live faithful. But ...
You purchased your own console, you didn't rent it as if it were a pure content delivery vehicle. As an outright purchase, it's your property to modify as you desire --- that's how the concept of property and purchases works in the west.
If MS or any other games manufacturer wants to retain control over the delivery vehicle, then they should not sell them but lease or rent them out only, so that they remain their property. Once sold, the consoles are no longer their property to control.
The fact that the Live fanboys have purchased their consoles as property and yet are perfectly happy to be shafted by MS as if the modified consoles had been rented merely says something about the distorted worldview of fanboys, that's all.
I agree, you might not prefer a Wii if you're a graphics whore.
Actually, I think the fact that people are willing to purchase a new peripheral that works on only two great games proves my point that people are willing to purchase new peripherals, if the games are there to support them, pretty darn well.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
By the way, I don't even own an Xbox360, so I'm not whining Microsoft locked me out after having accepted their terms. However, I do consider that the ability to make backup copies falls under fair use of something I paid for, and which is unrelated (to anyone but Microsoft) to another service I might be purchasing from them (LIVE).
I have a 360, havent flashed it because im rather picky about my games, I do have a friend who flashed his and now we cant play anymore. He is in Florida and im in Missouri but Live is the best way we have found to stay in touch.
They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription and the ton of xbox points he goes through. He is the one who talked me into buying my first live arcade game (Settlers of Catan) and he seems to buy every game they put out. I talked to him this morning and he is now talking PS3, I cant help but wonder how many thousands of live users will now do the same? I dont have a problem with fighting piracy but MS may be cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.
Of course not, but I have to wonder if there isn't some good money to be made in creating on-line games that minimize the advantages of the hardcore players. The casual, few-hours-per-week market is where the best return on investment is, the hardcore gamers don't pay any more money but use lots more system capacity. If someone can find a way to make sure the game is enjoyable for people who have a life, they'll do well.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
...
[crickets]
Well, it was a reasonable theory.
If I want to look at pretty pictures, I'll go to the art gallery. Games should either move fast enough or require enough attention that you're not staring at the gloss. In my opinion anyway.
Microsoft wants your Wii?
Well, Balmer didn't look that kinky, but you know what they say about people in top management positions and their rather curious sexual preferences... Hey, to each their own, but at least do it in the bathroom when you're doing it in a hotel, please!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses. It could be a fun side project for the game developers (:
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Wow, you totally misunderstood what I just said. I mean, you completely missed the point.
No, I don't want Microsoft to muddle in these games to try to make it "fairer". I don't care if this fairness inequality is due to some South Korean kid who can practice Halo for 12 hours each day. I don't care if this fairness inequality is due to some South Korean kid who stuck a modchip in his Xbox 360. Regardless, the result is the same: a fairness inequality. And that's something I don't think Microsoft should be trying to change.
Here you are, saying that Microsoft is not obligated to make anyone feel better. But that's exactly what they're trying to do by banning these modded Xbox 360s! Can you make up your mind, please? Either you want them to try to bring a level of equality, or you don't. But please, try to be consistent with what you're saying.
Publishing a motion controller AFTER the console is out the door is pointless.
Any kind of "specialized" controller for a console was a failure so far. The reason is simple: Lack of games. If the controller is not a definite part of the package, game studios are wary to produce for it, because to sell the game, the customer would have to buy the game AND the controller. And that in turn only pays off for the customer, if he can play more than one single game with that controller. Few games are SO awesome that they warrant paying 100 bucks and more for it (game + controller), so the customer will think twice before buying a game and look around whether there are other games supporting this controller. If there are none, your game is a brick in a display case.
And since all studios think that way and wait for the others to release games for the special controller...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I don't think you understand what a 'fair and level playing field' actually means. It does not mean everybody has the same skill level, it means that the system (console, games, Live...) does not provide an advantage to any player over any other player. Modifying any of those to provide an advatage which another player does not have would make for an uneven playing field. The fact that circumstances beyond Microsoft's control mean you can't practice as much as others has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'playing field'. The level of ability, skill and practice which you bring to the playing field is your problem, not Microsoft's.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
- The fact that you're cheating in games can be a valid reason for being banned.
... well, only admired by cheats. Please don't equate the two.
- The fact that you've modified your personal property does NOT imply that you're cheating.
Many Xboxes are modified to run media players, and their owners have no interest at all in cheating, whatsoever. Penalizing those players is completely without justification and unfair.
Running a modified media player is very much a positive technical pursuit, whereas cheating is
This is just a case of MS flexing its muscle to show who's boss --- don't try to rationalize it as being somehow "fair" and "right". It might catch some cheats, but it's also penalizing huge numbers of non-cheating players, entirely unfairly.
Are you stupid? I don't know why I ask that because the answer is obvious.
Should the person who practices more be better at something? If you go out to a soccer field and play against people who play every day when you play once a month...do you expect them to all get on their knees to make up for your inability?
And quite frankly, what you say isn't even right. I work a full time job, own a house that keeps me real busy, and I can get on any fps and be at the top. I think you just suck at these types of games. Try an RPG...that way you can level up if something is too hard for you.
Disclaimer: not putting down RPGs, I play and love them. This guy should just stay away from multiplayer FPS because it actually takes some hand/eye coordination.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Microsoft can't be bothered to patch dozens of security holes or flaws within their Operating Systems that are used by millions of people daily for production work... but hey, we wouldn't want someone to cheat in a video game- better fix that asap!
Here's an idea, leave the damn Xbox360 alone. Don't flash it, hack it, mod it. Use it for it's intended purpose - to play games you pay for. Given that, you're "friend" won't have any other issues.
Losers.
LOL! A gaming luddite! Why not just go back to CGA graphics with only 4 colors?
Yes, better graphics sucks. The Atari 2600, with its innovative paddle controllers, is so superior to the PS3 with its yesterday controllers.
If you want his product then it has value to you. If something has value to you then you are willing to barter for it or will take it. Your morals will dictate which path you choose. Let's look at the other side. How many subscribers would they LOSE if they allowed modified Xboxes to stay on the system? All of my friends with 360s would jump ship.
While I completely agree, hindsight is 20/20. He's now faced with either spending $499 to get back on live or spend $100 bucks more to get a ps3. What I thought was kind of funny was that he had to spend $60 on crackdown to get code that got him banned. Oh well at least im getting a game out of it, I offered to buy crackdown from him, I wasnt going to buy a game for a 2 week beta, but now I hear its actaully a decent one.
I know when the elite came out there were problems with the data transfers and live arcade. Anyone know if the stuff he downloaded would be ok on a new 360 if he just bought a core and stuck his HDD in it?
Isn't that what the ranked online playing attempts to do? I've never really used it but I believe it tries to locate people of the same approximate skill level to play against. I'm sure others have more insight. I don't use it because its quicker just to jump right into a random game.
Is it possible to "Un-hack" your 360? I was considering buying a refurbished 360 and didn't know what recourse I'd have if I found myself with a hacked box.
Its their network, they can make any rule they want for you to connect. Not much to see here.
Now, if they start remotely disabling the console that you bought and paid for, then we have some news.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
cough Guitar Hero cough
First, you need to step a way from that pipe, get sober and calm down.
Second, if you actually listened to yourself, then you would realize how ridiculous your argument is. There is a clear contract when you sign up for the Xbox Live service. It says, if you mod your box, you are not eligible for the service. Case closed.
For a comparison, if you buy a car and you make a modification that is not authorized by the manufacturer, your warranty is null and void. And that is a rule that has been tested many times in the court of law.
Good luck trying to get a lawyer.
Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live
Gosh, then why are they letting people modify their firmware from Live?
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
I pay good money for games and the live service. I don't want to lose to cheaters. They are protecting both of our interests.
Back to the first case: aside from getting out of the suit funds sufficient to buy a new 360, what recourse does this notional plaintiff have? Would it be practical for Microsoft to set up a system where such individuals can send the offending console along with apporpirate documentation and get a new unit in exchange?
More generally, I am curious as to the false-positive rate of whatever mechanism is used to determine 'is this a modded 360?'.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
>They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription
In other words:We should allow automobile theft because thieves buy gas too.
Not at all, as I said I agree and I buy all my games (I have 14 boxed ones and 2 live arcade titles). MS does loose money on the hardware so making them buy a new one will hurt them, and loosing live revenue for those that decide to just keep pirating and forgo live hurts them as well, so this is a gutsy move that while I think its right it could have damaging reprecutions for MS that outweight be benefits of getting rid of the pirates.
It's their network, why shouldn't they ban people that don't play by their rules?
:P
Using your logic, they should be allowed to detect people with disabilities and send them an electric shock, right? After all, it's their network, they have the full right to penalize people with slow reaction times. Hey, that's even fun. It's their network after all!!!
Or is that pretty poor logic?
Well assuming that you're slightly rational, you'll realize from the above counter-example that it's not true that "anything goes" just because it's their network. Some things are proper and fair, and other things are not.
Cheating is unfair, and to ban cheaters has firm justification.
But modding a console does not imply cheating --- it's very common indeed to mod Xboxes as media players, without in any shape or form having any interest whatsoever in cheating. And those consoles are the personal property of the people who bought them, and not the property of Microsoft to control as they will.
So what it comes down to is this. They are morally justified to ban people for cheating. They are NOT morally justified to ban people purely for modifying their own personal property in ways that do not affect online play.
Of course they have the POWER to do so anyway, and it's no surprise that they flex their muscles just to prove who's boss. But that doesn't make it right.
Selling the machines at a loss does not mean they lose more money the more they sell. The hardware sells at a profit, while it's one-off stuff they are still paying for, like R&D, design, and testing, not to mention reasonably fixed price stuff like marketing. If they were to sell enough Xsoxes they would actually make up the loss.
We at slashdot are scientists, specialists and kernel hackers. Your FUD will be found out.
For some reason this was modded -1 Troll.
How in hell was that comment a Troll?
The Microsoft fanboys must have mod points today.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
He's now faced with either spending $499 to get back on live or spend $100 bucks more to get a ps3.
:)
What Xbox 360 SKU is $499? Do you have a link or are you just trolling? Oh, of course you're trolling because you refer to the core console that "your friend" would obviously be interested in if he's looking to get back on Live cheaply
Yes, your (friend's) content will still work on a new core console with the old HD, that how all of us who are on our 2nd(3rd, 10th, whatever) console do it, you just have to be signed in to live.
Wort Wort Wort!
So is foresight in this case. MS banned modded versions of the original xbox from live. It's not a surprise that they'd do the same with the 360.
*cough*guitar hero*cough*
Not that I disagree with your general sentiment, but there are exceptions.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
Yes, I did find it coincidental. But I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Too bad you upset someone with it. Maybe someone with less sympathy for cheaters will mod you back up again.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
Sorry, but you're entirely wrong.
This is where it gets interesting -- the console is banned, not the account. His account is still active, and most likely set up to automatically renew year after year. Unless he calls 1-800-4-MY-XBOX and cancels his account, it will keep on renewing every year until his credit card expires. While that sounds a little nasty on Microsoft's part, it does make sense. Most people are quite attached to their Live accounts, given the popularity of achievements. Even a console modder probably wouldn't want to lose his account, so they don't ban it. That leaves you with three choices:
- Buy a new console and don't modify it.
- Buy a new console, modify it, get banned, repeat.
- Cancel your account.
The choice is up to youOh, yeah, and it's "losing", not "loosing".
If you're going to use a car analogy, use a valid one. Manufacturers are required by law to honor your warranty, even with modifications, so long as the modification did not cause the problem that needs fixed. For example, installing a cat-back exhaust or a short shifter will not void warranty repair for a steering issue, just as replacing your suspension will not void warranty repair for an engine or transmission problem.
Given that, the analogy can still make sense -- a portion of your warranty will be invalidated with modifications made to your car, just as a portion of the 360 experience (Live access) will be invalidated with modifications to your console. Your car will still drive and your console will still play games.
I still read EULA's and the like from time to time. I read the note on my original Xbox that said I wasn't allowed to play my games on other peoples Xboxes. I laughed, and decided Microsoft was so out-of-its-mind restrictive in their claims about what I could and could not do that I have never read or adhered to their rules since.
This action by Microsoft isn't surprising in the least, but there are people who have a legitimate reason for modding their console. If they connect to Live right now and are banned, they are getting screwed.
Yes, you can sue the seller. But you won't have any grounds to sue MS or Xbox Live.
Why should MS refund you for doing something that they were clear on what the consequences were and you did it anyway? You modded the box out of free-will, nobody forced you to do it. Xbox Live has ALWAYS been clear about banning modded Xboxes. So why should MS eat the cost for your willful violation?
As I said, there are a few killer games that were so unique and popular that the controller sold due to a single game. GH and DDR are the notable exceptions.
But how many others failed? Nintendo's first attempt at a "dance mat" for their ancient console, the lightguns for various consoles, eye toy, the list goes on. For every one successful controller gadget, there are dozens of dead weighs.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There's this game I know that you might enjoy. It's called Pong.
- White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
The same could also be said for games in general.
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
*NP*
True, but how much harder is it for a game to sell when the price tag is almost twice that of a "normal" game? It has to be an extremely good game to sell.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I really don't understand what is wrong with you people. Why is that in every conversation that has something to do with the PS3 or XBOX360 you have to talk about your Wii? Ahh, I was mad...but after reading what I just wrong I can't help but laugh.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Uh, no. The thing is, you won't even get positive support on Slashdot of all places for this. People hate cheaters more than they hate copy protection. As far as used Xbox's go, it is buyer beware...that has nothing to do with MS. I also think the 360 might be making a small profit at this point. I don't think MS is worried about the prospect of having more units sold even if it is at a loss. It makes them a more attractive target for developers. More games means more appeal means more sales means more money for MS's money vault.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
I don't believe an EULA dispute has ever made it to court, but I may be wrong. Also, just because there's a contract doesn't mean "case closed". People with contract disputes go to court all of the time.
I don't believe the situation is a simple as you believe. From what I understand, the manufacturer must show that your modification resulted in the problem that you're trying to have fixed under warranty. For example, I just bought a used Firebird that had after-market exhaust tips installed on it. If I now have engine problems the dealer can't point at the tips and claim the engine's not covered anymore. Now, if I had screwed with the air intake or installed custom headers I'd probably be out of luck.
You read those? I can't even read the rest of your post.
Here's a thought...
there are plenty of people out there who use it for it's intended purpose: to play games they paid for, and yet still have a modded xbox
uh oh, there goes your brilliant argument, and your justification for calling them losers...
Chance favors the prepared mind...especially when you Question Authority
Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses.
I think it would be great fun to allow gamers to actively develop the system. They could work to establish various limits. Work to undo other restrictions, and they could even create a market place for the best hacks.
Look what Hiro Protagonist did for sword fighting in the metaverse by removing the restriction that kept one object from passing through another object.
Some of us are happy with our wiis and don't have a screaming urge to compensate it with a 50" TV.
I don't think there really is an arguement, or even a discussion, about whether or not the 360's graphics are an order of magentude better than the Wii's. They simply are. I can't speak for everyone on this, but I do have a 50" Panasonic plasma and the graphics aren't the reason why I bought the Wii....
http://www.tomandemily.com
Every security system invented by corporate programmers has been defeated by hackers. Latest case in point AACS, and before that CCS, WGA, not to mention modded XBOXes themselves.
Next time you are given 5 mod points, try and spend them wisely.
oops "your" right its $399 for premium, sorry havent shopped for one since I picked up a platinum shortly after launch and didnt remember. $299 for core, guess thats a decent fine for his being a dumb ass...thank "you" for correcting me. "You've" gone through 2-3 consoles...how on earth did "you" manage that? I know some early ones had problems with the red ring but I figured most of those were the result of people jacking with them. I guess I just got lucky, no problems with mine and its over a year old now.
screw this thread I going to play my wii..... whoa wtf- where- note reads: "accordance with the new DMCA your wii has been confiscated signed: microsoft." DAMN YOU MICROSOFT!!!!!
My point was that no other games came out to support those peripherals and no other developers incorporated those peripherals into their games. People buy them because they want to play THAT game.
It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever if people buy the add-ons if they're not supported, and developers have shown over and over that they are basically unwilling to develop for hardware that didn't come with the system. That's the real issue, and what you're missing.
last week I met my wii after work, we went to a movie and dinner. I liked the place but wii said that the chicken was a little dry and our service was slow. I took wii's wiimote in my hand and gazed at her beautiful glowing disc feeder. As I held wii I whispered gently to her "I love you wii" as she hummed sweetly in my ear. Needless to say I felt for wii what I have never felt for a console before. After a ride in the park in a horse drawn carriage I could see that wii was a bit low on batteries so we took a cab home and held each other for hours. We laughed together and told stories of your youth and family- she told me about her immigrant grandparents famicom and nes, needless to say I was impressed how far she came to be with me. Then we dimmed the lights and made love. I could feel her rumble pack tremble at my touch as I slid my hands along her sleek ivory details. the rest I can't go into, but I can say this I love my wii.
inept
not
inapt
Where does one find out how to mod an Xbox360?
The Elite is $479 before taxes/shipping (though he notably didn't include taxes/shipping in his PS3 estimate, so I guess you can't just tack them on here to get that magic $499)
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
That's a superficial assumption.
All the TVs in my home, my family's home, and my siblings' homes are HDTVs from 37" 16:9 LCD to 32" 4:3 CRT to 65" 16:9 RPCRT, except for things like kitchen TVs. We all prefer our Wii systems (3 combined total, hopefully 3 more when we can get them). That includes two gamers who have spent a lot of time and money on video games since the 80s, AND my parents, AND a few parents of children from 8 to 15. It's simply the more fun system, especially when we play together (in which case it's the only system we play together). This past Easter was a HUGE Wii weekend for all of us, for example. Even a death anniversary family gathering that we had a couple months ago ended up with us playing Wii Bowling.
On the other hand, we have two 360s, and that's [more than] enough for the hardcore gamers among us. I do not prefer mine to my Wii, regardless of the fact that they are both connected by component cables to my 57" HDTV. In fact, the first reason I bought it was because I didn't want to build another HTPC for media streaming. Funny enough, I'm now in the middle of an inexpensive and silent X2-4400+ 65W build for just this purpose, so I expect the 360 will be getting even less use from me going forward (certainly much less so far than my Wii, PS2, DS, and older systems).
Oh, now I see. You're one of those "I really don't get it" kind of people.
Well obviously this has hit quite a few fans. Some though did take the damage and are now selling "off line versions" of the xbox 360 second hand. As long as they say that you cant play on line with it! It can be a good deal!
:!
Some seem to think that they can play foul with the EEPROM to change the serial. Except..few know where the serial is hidden on an xbox360. And some are waiting for the mod scene to find a solution.
So that is what has become of it..
My point here is that though with the original xbox you really added allot of extra functions that made it a much sweeter box. And even though many lost their on line access through bans then they kept their own ones as media machines.
So what do the firmware and other mods for the xbox360 really bring in? Oh you can play "backup games"! Mmmm except that backup games is by far not the right wording. Illegal copy is more a right word.
The USA after all got DMCA right, that prohibits the cracking of security, how inept in design it might be to get to the content. And guess what on the disc stands "make no unauthorized copies"
The unmodded xbox 360 already is a media monster by using the legal tools available for it. So the mods really only allow people to use Verbatim coasters as "play discs". And the first game hacks already been shown with Gears of War!
Remember nobody pays either Microsoft or the developers of the games for the copied disc! Making a high quality game takes lots of cash and lots of time! And yes games are expensive but unlike food or clean water, you don't need games to life. If you are to poor well to bad you are to poor to buy them! Buying copies only kills the few good game studios that are left
And the "but fair use". Sorry DMCA killed Fair use! Complain to your local politician if you want that changed!
The "This will cost Microsoft allot of money" issue also is a joke! Really would anybody cry when cheap freeloaders that doesn't give the game studios their due cant use 30% of what makes the xbox360 a good console. It isn't as if you did pay money to the developers.
All in all a good clean sweep to show the real appreciation to those that try to make good value possible, sure games can be expensive but a game you bought in full is more satisfying then one you got on a verbatim DVD from your "nephew". It isn't as if you had any time to begin with to play out all the 99 games you "own"
Nothing like a cleansing storm to take away the dust and troubles isn't it? I wish all those that stayed on the legal side allot of fun with Crackdown and Halo 3 Beta! You are lucky!
Masticina Akicta,
Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.
The only public available mod that allows you to run unsigned code, requires your 360 to be at certain kernel level. Logging into Live automatically updates your 360 kernel and burns a fuser, which prevents you from going back to the compromised kernel version. To the best of my understanding there are no mods out there which will allow you to run unsigned 360 code and connect to Live, much less allow you to run cheats or hacks.
Modding your DVD BIOS will only allow you to run copies of signed DVD games. This move is aimed at exclusively at killing piracy, not at easing hacking of from the 360.
My other OS is the MCP!
I GOT BANNED 1ST DAY and I never cheated but I was playing burned games but man when they banned me they F&*#ed up my system by blocking my XBOX 360 MAC address from even connecting to the internet. NOW THATS where they crossed the line...... I cant even connect on KAI or XBC so now they are forcing me to bring my xbox to my MODder and we gotta try and change the MAC into a working address I hope i dont take someone elses MAC off the top. bann me off of LIVE but dont screw with my MAC address