The whole point of a distro is that it is DIFFERENT from the others around it, not that it is similar. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and the various things they try can be pulled into other projects.
For instance, Canonical has been talking about rolling Wayland in as a replacement for X in Ubuntu. It might be a phenomenal failure, or it might be incredibly successful. If it works well, Im sure RedHat, CentOS, Debian, etc will all pull it in as well, and some bit of progress will have been made. If it sucks and dies, well, that too is progress.
There are advantages to not having everything in ascii text, or else we would never see relational databases used for anything. You are right that we will see. I like plain text logs because I am still learning the ins and outs of the major Linux breeds, and not having to learn a special tool for every config file and log makes things easier; but I wont say that there couldnt be benefits to a more robust system.
Be that as it may, what he suggested isnt a broken window fallacy. Noone is suggesting the creation of additional waste to create more composting jobs, which WOULD be a broken window fallacy.
The other problem is it doesnt do a whole lot of good if you have wonderful enviornmental policies in place for 20 years and then the country becomes a dictatorship or falls to revolution; neither of those scenarios tend to be super environmentally minded.
There is an enormous difference, and you seemed to have utterly missed the point of contention in your attempt to simplify this down to "clearly X is more important to Y". Notably, there are questions as to the government's role, the Federal government's specific role as it relates to residents of a particular states, the authority of a local government, and whether it is an acceptable use of power to mandate a private good be purchased simply for being alive.
You will note that this doesnt seem to be suggesting a federal mandate, which again would fall afoul of a number of really important principles.
Listen, what happens to our planet in 500 years is really really important. What happens to our government in the next 20 is also really important, and if you start violating important principles of one (such as limitations of power and separation of local and federal power) for the other, Im not sure that you can call it a net win. A pristine planet in an orwellian society doesnt really appeal to me, and its why these battles are so important to fight.
Do you do that at christmas or birthday parties? Im sure it would go over really well, you should try that-- "yea, this gift is good, but you know what would have been really nice?"
That defeats the point of moderation, unless youre looking for an ego boost and to apply peer pressure to conform to the common view. All the flame posts are there and you still get groupthink.
And if you read the specs in question, they indicate that that is NOT sufficient, and physical destruction, degaussing, or surface abrasion is necessary.
I aimed low: you're trying to tell if that tiny patch of grey next to all those other tiny patches of grey is grey enough that it could have been a darker or lighter grey before. 10 seconds may be sufficient for a reasonable guess of it's current state, but the previous state is the goal.
Youre also dealing in raw math at this point, which modern processors tend to do fantastically well. A purpose built processor could probably do hundreds of thousands (if not orders of magnitude more) faster than what you are estimating. Lets keep in mind that however many thousand or tens of thousands of mathematical ops you think would be needed per bit, a modern single core can handle millions of Floating Point OPs per second, and modern video cards have hundreds of cores. This is before thinking about the speedup you get from custom hardware.
Also keep in mind that we already have programs that run on bog standard CISC processors that do OCR-- transforming arbitrary scribbles in various orientations into computer-readable text-- and do it very quickly.
The problem of being outshouted is inherent in a democratic forum where users have a say in a post's ranking. Removing downmodding and just raising the upmod ceiling doesnt really change the issue; youve just created a new baseline for what counts as 0.
If you think the problem is ANYTHING like Digg, your memory must be playing tricks on you. On occasion I see posts (some mine, some I disagree with) modded down simply because the view is unpopular, even if stated well and civilly. But it is nothing like digg where any kind of dissenting view would be dug to -250, never to see the light of day again. Notably, on digg, since anyone could mod at any time, there was nothing to stop someone from making 50 sock puppets all with full digg powers, whereas that simply does not work here.
If there is a complaint I have, it is the groupthink you tend to see on sites like this, but the mods for the most part do their job fairly well. I suppose the one other complaint would be that people mod up TOO much, modding things insightful when noone is even sure if the post in question has a shred of truth to it. You could, for example, get a +5 mod on some days just for making up credible lies about an unpopular politician.
All that said, the system here at slashdot is one of the better ones out there. The limit on how far something can be buried, as well as to who can do the burying, and the restriction from posting and modding in the same topic, do a great job of keeping the worst offenses to a minimum.
Incidentally, the gross error in your estimates are A) 10 seconds for one bit seems awfully high, and B) a devastating leak could be affected with the release of as little as 64,000 bits, or 8kB-- which even by your estimates is doable in a short period of time. It is not necessary to recover everything off of the entire disk in order to cause harm.
Does anyone have any data to back this up? All I've ever heard on the subject is speculation on what is probably feasible, but noone seems to have gotten a lab like Kroll or the NSA to comment on it (except that the NSA seems to think that one pass ISNT enough).
Personally, I recommend a pseudorandom wipe for people who care to some degree, but I make it clear that there are very few guarentees in computing, and Im also not dealing with confidential data.
Microsoft's USMT isnt terribly good. Its quicker (much) and easier to simply use ERUNT on the user's hive, and backup the %userprofile% Desktop, MyDocuments, Favorites, AppData, and LocalSettings\Appdata folders. Thats essentially what USMT does, except it takes about 3x longer to do so and sometimes manages to bork everything in the process.
Nobody has demonstrated a proof if its infeasibility, either. Thats not terribly reassuring, to tell your boss, "dont worry, this confidential information is PROBABLY safe because some dude named Peter Gutman says that it is unlikely that someone can recover data."
Then Ill find a job where there is enough work that inefficiency is not a plus. This seems to go back to the whole "then why not use spoons" thing.
I suppose you could do all of your IT work using an onscreen keyboard and no physical keyboard, too, if makework was the objective, but I got into the IT field to do IT work, and to do it well.
If the republican party were to disband tomorrow, and the democratic party were to become the One True Party for the next 20 years, 20 years hence I feel like people would still find a way to blame those damn republicans, "especially bush".
You do realize it is possible to have a compositing WM in Gnome2, right? And that Gnome is not the WM, Metacity is?
Or in other words: GNOME 3 using Mutter performs about the same as GNOME 2 with Mutter or Compiz.,/quote> Apparently you do, so im not clear what point you were trying to make. Gnome 3 with Unity apparently does NOT perform as well as Gnome2 with Compiz.
No. Those are not other words for what I wrote. Those words have a completely different meaning.
Not if you dont have dedicated hardware, and all of the compositing is done in software by a weaker cpu; in that case you will get much higher cpu usage and lower performance. That was my point.
Free speech means nothing if you don't have free press (you don't)
Lies. I could, tomorrow, if I had the inclination and the money, create my own newspaper and publish a scathing article on the Democratic party, Obama, the IRS, and the FBI, including vulgar terms, and nothing would happen to me. The worst that could happen would be if I published as facts things that were unfactual, and fell afoul of libel laws.
when you have censorship (you have, both on books and music)
Unless you are referring to private entities refusing of their own initiative to sell certain products, you will have a hard time making this case. There are no books that are illegal to own, purchase, or read in the united states, and I do not believe there are any that have age restrictions. There are age restrictions on some kinds of music, which are poorly if at all enforced, and there are NO banned works of music in the US.
There are some examples of censorship, but not generally at a federal level, and certainly not of books or music.
Either free speech is not required for a democracy, or the USA aren't a democracy.
Or else parent was using shorthand for "free speech is required for a democracy to work WELL", and you have made a very poor case for "no free speech in the US". The fact that you are posting this complaint to a US website that has often been the site of arguments about corruption in the US government as well as rather scathing attacks on the presidents over the last 10 years or so, indicates how full of crap you are.
Slashdot Mirror
Keep on fragmenting each distro
The whole point of a distro is that it is DIFFERENT from the others around it, not that it is similar. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and the various things they try can be pulled into other projects.
For instance, Canonical has been talking about rolling Wayland in as a replacement for X in Ubuntu. It might be a phenomenal failure, or it might be incredibly successful. If it works well, Im sure RedHat, CentOS, Debian, etc will all pull it in as well, and some bit of progress will have been made. If it sucks and dies, well, that too is progress.
There are advantages to not having everything in ascii text, or else we would never see relational databases used for anything. You are right that we will see. I like plain text logs because I am still learning the ins and outs of the major Linux breeds, and not having to learn a special tool for every config file and log makes things easier; but I wont say that there couldnt be benefits to a more robust system.
Be that as it may, what he suggested isnt a broken window fallacy. Noone is suggesting the creation of additional waste to create more composting jobs, which WOULD be a broken window fallacy.
The other problem is it doesnt do a whole lot of good if you have wonderful enviornmental policies in place for 20 years and then the country becomes a dictatorship or falls to revolution; neither of those scenarios tend to be super environmentally minded.
Its kind of funny to talk of extrajudicial anything when the man has steadfastly refused to go to judicial hearings.
Its not a broken window fallacy if its actual useful work that can be done and adds value to society.
There is an enormous difference, and you seemed to have utterly missed the point of contention in your attempt to simplify this down to "clearly X is more important to Y". Notably, there are questions as to the government's role, the Federal government's specific role as it relates to residents of a particular states, the authority of a local government, and whether it is an acceptable use of power to mandate a private good be purchased simply for being alive.
You will note that this doesnt seem to be suggesting a federal mandate, which again would fall afoul of a number of really important principles.
Listen, what happens to our planet in 500 years is really really important. What happens to our government in the next 20 is also really important, and if you start violating important principles of one (such as limitations of power and separation of local and federal power) for the other, Im not sure that you can call it a net win. A pristine planet in an orwellian society doesnt really appeal to me, and its why these battles are so important to fight.
Do you do that at christmas or birthday parties? Im sure it would go over really well, you should try that-- "yea, this gift is good, but you know what would have been really nice?"
If someone gives you a horse you don't expect fine print saying you can't ride it.
Thats good, Ill remember never to give you a gift since you apparently cant be gracious about receiving them.
That defeats the point of moderation, unless youre looking for an ego boost and to apply peer pressure to conform to the common view. All the flame posts are there and you still get groupthink.
And if you read the specs in question, they indicate that that is NOT sufficient, and physical destruction, degaussing, or surface abrasion is necessary.
I aimed low: you're trying to tell if that tiny patch of grey next to all those other tiny patches of grey is grey enough that it could have been a darker or lighter grey before. 10 seconds may be sufficient for a reasonable guess of it's current state, but the previous state is the goal.
Youre also dealing in raw math at this point, which modern processors tend to do fantastically well. A purpose built processor could probably do hundreds of thousands (if not orders of magnitude more) faster than what you are estimating. Lets keep in mind that however many thousand or tens of thousands of mathematical ops you think would be needed per bit, a modern single core can handle millions of Floating Point OPs per second, and modern video cards have hundreds of cores. This is before thinking about the speedup you get from custom hardware.
Also keep in mind that we already have programs that run on bog standard CISC processors that do OCR-- transforming arbitrary scribbles in various orientations into computer-readable text-- and do it very quickly.
not if they take screenshots or capture the memory, but whatever.
The problem of being outshouted is inherent in a democratic forum where users have a say in a post's ranking. Removing downmodding and just raising the upmod ceiling doesnt really change the issue; youve just created a new baseline for what counts as 0.
If you think the problem is ANYTHING like Digg, your memory must be playing tricks on you. On occasion I see posts (some mine, some I disagree with) modded down simply because the view is unpopular, even if stated well and civilly. But it is nothing like digg where any kind of dissenting view would be dug to -250, never to see the light of day again. Notably, on digg, since anyone could mod at any time, there was nothing to stop someone from making 50 sock puppets all with full digg powers, whereas that simply does not work here.
If there is a complaint I have, it is the groupthink you tend to see on sites like this, but the mods for the most part do their job fairly well. I suppose the one other complaint would be that people mod up TOO much, modding things insightful when noone is even sure if the post in question has a shred of truth to it. You could, for example, get a +5 mod on some days just for making up credible lies about an unpopular politician.
All that said, the system here at slashdot is one of the better ones out there. The limit on how far something can be buried, as well as to who can do the burying, and the restriction from posting and modding in the same topic, do a great job of keeping the worst offenses to a minimum.
Thats what I was saying-- 1 pass isnt enough for confidential data in their eyes. I wasnt saying that more passes were any better in their eyes.
Incidentally, the gross error in your estimates are A) 10 seconds for one bit seems awfully high, and B) a devastating leak could be affected with the release of as little as 64,000 bits, or 8kB-- which even by your estimates is doable in a short period of time. It is not necessary to recover everything off of the entire disk in order to cause harm.
Does anyone have any data to back this up? All I've ever heard on the subject is speculation on what is probably feasible, but noone seems to have gotten a lab like Kroll or the NSA to comment on it (except that the NSA seems to think that one pass ISNT enough).
Personally, I recommend a pseudorandom wipe for people who care to some degree, but I make it clear that there are very few guarentees in computing, and Im also not dealing with confidential data.
Microsoft's USMT isnt terribly good. Its quicker (much) and easier to simply use ERUNT on the user's hive, and backup the %userprofile% Desktop, MyDocuments, Favorites, AppData, and LocalSettings\Appdata folders. Thats essentially what USMT does, except it takes about 3x longer to do so and sometimes manages to bork everything in the process.
Nobody has demonstrated a proof if its infeasibility, either. Thats not terribly reassuring, to tell your boss, "dont worry, this confidential information is PROBABLY safe because some dude named Peter Gutman says that it is unlikely that someone can recover data."
This attitude is why we cannot have nice things.
Then Ill find a job where there is enough work that inefficiency is not a plus. This seems to go back to the whole "then why not use spoons" thing.
I suppose you could do all of your IT work using an onscreen keyboard and no physical keyboard, too, if makework was the objective, but I got into the IT field to do IT work, and to do it well.
If the republican party were to disband tomorrow, and the democratic party were to become the One True Party for the next 20 years, 20 years hence I feel like people would still find a way to blame those damn republicans, "especially bush".
You do realize it is possible to have a compositing WM in Gnome2, right? And that Gnome is not the WM, Metacity is?
Or in other words: GNOME 3 using Mutter performs about the same as GNOME 2 with Mutter or Compiz.,/quote>
Apparently you do, so im not clear what point you were trying to make. Gnome 3 with Unity apparently does NOT perform as well as Gnome2 with Compiz.
No. Those are not other words for what I wrote. Those words have a completely different meaning.
Not if you dont have dedicated hardware, and all of the compositing is done in software by a weaker cpu; in that case you will get much higher cpu usage and lower performance. That was my point.
Free speech means nothing if you don't have free press (you don't)
Lies. I could, tomorrow, if I had the inclination and the money, create my own newspaper and publish a scathing article on the Democratic party, Obama, the IRS, and the FBI, including vulgar terms, and nothing would happen to me. The worst that could happen would be if I published as facts things that were unfactual, and fell afoul of libel laws.
when you have censorship (you have, both on books and music)
Unless you are referring to private entities refusing of their own initiative to sell certain products, you will have a hard time making this case. There are no books that are illegal to own, purchase, or read in the united states, and I do not believe there are any that have age restrictions. There are age restrictions on some kinds of music, which are poorly if at all enforced, and there are NO banned works of music in the US.
There are some examples of censorship, but not generally at a federal level, and certainly not of books or music.
Either free speech is not required for a democracy, or the USA aren't a democracy.
Or else parent was using shorthand for "free speech is required for a democracy to work WELL", and you have made a very poor case for "no free speech in the US". The fact that you are posting this complaint to a US website that has often been the site of arguments about corruption in the US government as well as rather scathing attacks on the presidents over the last 10 years or so, indicates how full of crap you are.