"If your just getting a PC "to browse the internet", and only want to cough up $200 for it, I doubt your going to want to spend $50/mo for broadband."
There are all sorts of broadband packages - a lot of people get combo packs, where the broadband adds $10 to their tv bill. These are the people this is ideal for.
Besides, broadband is now cheaper than dial-up, since you don't need a second phone line. Checking with my ISP, their dialup and basic broadband packages are both the same price - $9.95/m.
"On this metric, I think it might deserve its review. Linux is still rather far from being as idiot friendly as the big two. "
Have you even tried it in the last year or two? If you can click on icons, you can do whatever you have to do. When the windows boxes all were unable to access the net at the office (dns issues), people who had never used linux gave it a try, since they didn't have much of a choice. "How do I run it?" "See the firefox icon?" "Yeah" "Click on it, same as Windows." "Oh, okay."
"First if you read the other review you would find that to add ram you have to take off a big scary sticker that says. Warrenty [sic] void if removed."
They're really dumb enough to try that? Those stickers are illegal and of no consequence in my jurisdiction, and probably quite a few others.
"What every Linux person of tne face of the earth has been saying for a long time is that we need to have Linux installed at the factory just like Windows."
I've been saying "What we need is a copy of linux on every bare hard drive sold, as a 'value-add'". This way, anyone doing an upgrade gets a free copy. Most hardware will work, and if its set up properly (half devoted to linux, half devoted to ntfs, and an instruction sheet saying: "1. install drive. 2. press F10 or delete or whatever takes you to your bios boot selection menu. 3. boot linux" we'd see a lot more people "getting their feet wet."
Just a thought.
On the other hand, people who are in the market for a $200 PC aren't going to buy Windows anyway. They just want something to "do the Intarweb tubez thing" with. They're not going to be running Autocad or Eclipse.
"Most of the people that have bought this computer are probably Linux fans."
The reviews include a lot of people who bought them for others whose only previous experience (if any) was Windows. They're happy.
The modem is a non-issue. After all, if you're all bent out of shape over not being able to watch streaming video (no flash installed), you certainly aren't on dial-up, (or you're a masochist). Its not like it would be that hard to find either an external modem, or a real hardware modem, if you're so "out in the boonies" as to not have broadband, in which case you won't be a regular youtube user anyway.
"I can promise you that topping up the oil or brake fluid in a car is well beyond what most people feel comfortable with."
Come off it. Even if they can't do it, they can find someone who can. Next you'll be claiming that most people can't even add gas to their cars, or air to their tires. Besides, like I said before, if they're that afraid/stupid, they can just ask some 13-year-old to do it. Its a LOT easier than in the bad old days of soldered-in dimms.
Turn off power
Open case
Snap ram into slot (it only goes one way unless you use BFMI)
Close case
Turn on power
"If they had used say Ubuntu and installed all all the codecs that you, Flash, and the Modem worked I would probably say this is a great system."
In other words, except for the modem that, realistically, nobody will ever want to use (they'll use the NIC instead), you have no beef about the hardware. So just install your favorite distro and be done with it - its not that hard (certainly easier than installing Windows). The whole article was nit-picking, and you've gotten all hung up over non-issues. Just add a non-us repository (like packman.de for openSUSE users) and problem solved.
"As to sticking more ram into it. Yes this is a fine machine for a hacker to tweak and make into a home server or a spare machine. The problem is that isn't the market it is supposed to target."
"sticking more ram in" is not a "hacker tweak". Anyone can stick ram in a box - its easier than changing a windshield wiper blade. To continue the bad car analogies, its about akin to topping up the oil or brake fluid.
"This machine is far from perfect. As it stands it isn't a good machine for someone that knows nothing about Linux to take home and plug in."
The people who have bought it say otherwise. Their opinion counts for more than either of ours, since they actually bought them, and like them. And, in case you haven't noticed, a complete linux install is now MUCH easier to install and configure than even a basic Windows install, and has been for years. They're free to change distros if they want (unlike Windows, which costs you every time you change/upgrade/downgrade).
"The lack of flash and the monitor issue are deal-breakers since it is being advertised as a internet-friendly pc. "
Obviously their selling out all their initial stock in 5 days, and all the reviews by happ users, say otherwise.
"The price makes it appealing to older people who just want the basics. They won't know how to install Flash or how to do the default monitor adjustment. If they knew that much, they wouldn't buy their PC from Wal-Mart."
Flash is not the be-all and end-all of computing, and its not like its all that hard to install. If they can't figure it out, they can always ask some 13-year-old to help them.
As for the default monitor adjustment, I know a guy who's been using windows since 3.1, and he didn't know he could change his last monitor (a 21" beast) from 88x600 to 1600x1200, which is what it runs at on an older system now that I've "inherited" it as a freebee.
In other words, the complaints are nit-picks, and they'll be sorted out over the next little while, unlike the "file copy takes forever" bug in Vista.
"The modem doesn't work... Yes it is a Winmodem but should you build a box and put a none functioning modem in it?"
It also has a network card. If you're buying a "'net pc", you should at least have a half-decent net connection. Dial-up doesn't cut it any more. People move based on the availability of a decent net connection. Besides, if you really can't get anything other than dial-up, there's nothing stopping you from going through the local junk box and finding a real hardware-based modem. You should do that even with winboxen, since a winmodem sux, performance-wise.
"They didn't install Flash and don't seem to have a super easy way to install Flash."
The original article complained about "not being able to surf myspace" w/o flash. Myspace?!? Sounds like a plus to me.
Take the half-gig ram out, throw in 2 1-gig sticks, and you've got a decent, energy-efficient box for $300.00. Besides, there's nothing keeping people from installing RedHat or SuSE or Mandriva or whatever...
Better yet, buy 2, and take the half-gig stick you took out of the first one and stick it in the second. This way, for $500 bux, you've got 2 boxes - one with a gig, one with 2 gigs.
The article was written by someone who "doesn't get it." Deducting points because it doesn't run Windows or Mac programs? Gee, do they do they deduct points from Windows because it doesn't run Mac or linux programs? The box does what its supposed to do, and it won't stop working in 6 months because its become loaded with malware.
I think they would make a great gift for people who are always bitching and whining about how their computer "stopped working".
Look who the biggest advertiser is in PC Mag... you know... follow the money...
The box does everything most people want - safe browsing on the web, email, and word processing. Throw in an extra stick of ram, and its a decent second box for a developer.
"Now - $21 million may seem like a considerable award. However, according the the RIAA's calculations, this only covers the single "Just a Lil Bit" by artist 50 Cent."
Since the award is to Antigua, and the profits of the award are to compensate Antigua, its the value in/to Antigua that counts. What the **AA thinks something is worth elsewhere is irrelevant.
Don't forget - this is as compensation to Antigua - its the revenue that is generated in or for Antigua that counts, not the "damage" elsewhere. They can use it to generate compensating revenues, up to the $21 million/year mark. If, for example, Microsoft was selling their crippleware for $3/unit in bulk, Antigua can now legally sell up to 7M copies a year at that price.
"The user has to get the openbsd server package now, but there's nothing easier than dragging and dropping files with Konqueror."
Definitely. Open up 2 copies of Konq. On one, have your local filesystem. On the other "fish://ip.to.remote.system". Drag your files between the 2 systems as required.
They don't have linux installed on their local machine? Give them a bootable cd/dvd/thumbdrive/whatever.
"See... that's the difference between people who understand the "warranty repair" concept, and those who don't."
It wasn't a warraty repair. that's why he had to pay $160.00 for a new drive. And THAT is the difference between people who understand the concept of RTFA and those who don't.
Do you remember all the talk during the Apollo missions about the "danger of skipping off the earth's atmosphere"? It wasn't really that - it was coming in at an angle that meant you didn't get enough initial drag, so you ended up either in orbit, or back in space.
Do the same thing - intentionally - and you can reduce your speed from 24,500 mph to 18,000 mph - and you need a lot less robust (and lighter) heat shield, since you're only absorbing 1/4 the kinetic energy and converting it to heat.
Then dock with the ISS, and transfer to a descent pod.
Everyone here seems to have forgotten that all this was originally worked out by NASA back in the mid-'50s, and was the original "moon mission" plan, under the cancelled "Dyna-Soar" (Dynamic Soaring) configuration.
Its completely feasible. If you recall, its possible to "skip" off the outer atmosphere to reduce speed. The "dyna-soar" program that was shelved in the early 60s would have done the same thing.
On return from moon, skip off outer atmosphere to reduce speed from 24,500 mph to 18,000 mph.
Dock with ISS
Transfer to smaller descent craft
This is not a "new" concept - its older than most slashdotters, having been originated in the mid-'50s, and is perfectly feasible.
Advantages - the "leo-to-lunar" craft doesn't need nearly as much re-entry shielding, since it only absorbs 1/4 the kinetic energy, the leo-to-earth craft doesn't need to be nearly as large, since it doesn't have to go from the earth to the moon and back to the surface, etc.
Seriously, why not just do the moon mission, then pick up the landing bags as the ISS on the way home. Better yet, why not have a specialized vehicle just for orbit-to-moon-and-back, and transfer to a special-use re-entry vehicle at the ISS?
I'll only address the last one for now (busy) - the use of pheromones to communicate.
Even in humans, it works. With dogs, whose sense of smell is about 1,000x more acute, a LOT of communication is scent-based. Observe dogs for a couple of decades and you'll catch on. Dogs can literally smell that you're afraid of them, just like they can smell cancer before most tests can detect it.
Ants communicate via scents they leave behind. Or consider snakes "tasting" the ground to track prey, etc.
Most communication, even among humans, is non-verbal.
"As far as I'm aware it only relies on the conflict between two assumptions: first, that intelligent life is common in the universe; and second, that intelligent life would be interested in exploration and communication, as we are. Neither of these assumptions is controversial."
There are other assumptions that you've ignored, as did Fermi. Just off the top of my head, here's 5 large assumptions that are left out.
That intelligent life must arise only on high-iron-content planets (ever try making an electrical generator w/o metals? How were ETs going to run those high-energy transmitters to communicate with others w/o a power source?)
That intelligent life must eventually leave the oceans for land (what, no fire means no possibility of intelligence???);
That intelligent life must be motile;
That intelligent life must have hands or other means to manipulate tools (dolphins and whales are certainly intelligent);
That intelligent life must communicate along the same lines we do (what if they use pheromones, for example)?
"No proof (how could that ever be proven?) but lots of evidence... we haven't found any yet!"
And for most of mankinds' existence, there was no proof that oxygen existed. Or that atoms existed. Or bacteria. Or radio waves (we didn't "invent" them - Jupiter was emitting radio waves long before we existed) or X-rays, or gamma radiation,...
There are other, more intelligent, ways to answer the question - the "we haven't found any yet!" isn't really all that good argument.
We're in bigger shit than you can imagine - they've already seen our "I Love Lucy" repeats... and now that they've seen Aliens and Terminator, the *know* we're dangerous, and need to be exterminated. They are a bit worried about our ability to travel through time, as demonstrated by our having received technology from our future from something called "The Federation", so they'll just nuke us from orbit. After all, its the safest option.
Slashdot Mirror
"If your just getting a PC "to browse the internet", and only want to cough up $200 for it, I doubt your going to want to spend $50/mo for broadband."
There are all sorts of broadband packages - a lot of people get combo packs, where the broadband adds $10 to their tv bill. These are the people this is ideal for.
Besides, broadband is now cheaper than dial-up, since you don't need a second phone line. Checking with my ISP, their dialup and basic broadband packages are both the same price - $9.95/m.
"On this metric, I think it might deserve its review. Linux is still rather far from being as idiot friendly as the big two. "
Have you even tried it in the last year or two? If you can click on icons, you can do whatever you have to do. When the windows boxes all were unable to access the net at the office (dns issues), people who had never used linux gave it a try, since they didn't have much of a choice. "How do I run it?" "See the firefox icon?" "Yeah" "Click on it, same as Windows." "Oh, okay."
Really, how hard is it to do that?
"First if you read the other review you would find that to add ram you have to take off a big scary sticker that says. Warrenty [sic] void if removed."
They're really dumb enough to try that? Those stickers are illegal and of no consequence in my jurisdiction, and probably quite a few others.
"What every Linux person of tne face of the earth has been saying for a long time is that we need to have Linux installed at the factory just like Windows."
I've been saying "What we need is a copy of linux on every bare hard drive sold, as a 'value-add'". This way, anyone doing an upgrade gets a free copy. Most hardware will work, and if its set up properly (half devoted to linux, half devoted to ntfs, and an instruction sheet saying: "1. install drive. 2. press F10 or delete or whatever takes you to your bios boot selection menu. 3. boot linux" we'd see a lot more people "getting their feet wet."
Just a thought.
On the other hand, people who are in the market for a $200 PC aren't going to buy Windows anyway. They just want something to "do the Intarweb tubez thing" with. They're not going to be running Autocad or Eclipse.
"Most of the people that have bought this computer are probably Linux fans."
The reviews include a lot of people who bought them for others whose only previous experience (if any) was Windows. They're happy.
The modem is a non-issue. After all, if you're all bent out of shape over not being able to watch streaming video (no flash installed), you certainly aren't on dial-up, (or you're a masochist). Its not like it would be that hard to find either an external modem, or a real hardware modem, if you're so "out in the boonies" as to not have broadband, in which case you won't be a regular youtube user anyway.
"I can promise you that topping up the oil or brake fluid in a car is well beyond what most people feel comfortable with."
Come off it. Even if they can't do it, they can find someone who can. Next you'll be claiming that most people can't even add gas to their cars, or air to their tires. Besides, like I said before, if they're that afraid/stupid, they can just ask some 13-year-old to do it. Its a LOT easier than in the bad old days of soldered-in dimms.
"If they had used say Ubuntu and installed all all the codecs that you, Flash, and the Modem worked I would probably say this is a great system."
In other words, except for the modem that, realistically, nobody will ever want to use (they'll use the NIC instead), you have no beef about the hardware. So just install your favorite distro and be done with it - its not that hard (certainly easier than installing Windows). The whole article was nit-picking, and you've gotten all hung up over non-issues. Just add a non-us repository (like packman.de for openSUSE users) and problem solved.
"As to sticking more ram into it. Yes this is a fine machine for a hacker to tweak and make into a home server or a spare machine. The problem is that isn't the market it is supposed to target."
"sticking more ram in" is not a "hacker tweak". Anyone can stick ram in a box - its easier than changing a windshield wiper blade. To continue the bad car analogies, its about akin to topping up the oil or brake fluid.
"This machine is far from perfect. As it stands it isn't a good machine for someone that knows nothing about Linux to take home and plug in."
The people who have bought it say otherwise. Their opinion counts for more than either of ours, since they actually bought them, and like them. And, in case you haven't noticed, a complete linux install is now MUCH easier to install and configure than even a basic Windows install, and has been for years. They're free to change distros if they want (unlike Windows, which costs you every time you change/upgrade/downgrade).
"The lack of flash and the monitor issue are deal-breakers since it is being advertised as a internet-friendly pc. "
Obviously their selling out all their initial stock in 5 days, and all the reviews by happ users, say otherwise.
"The price makes it appealing to older people who just want the basics. They won't know how to install Flash or how to do the default monitor adjustment. If they knew that much, they wouldn't buy their PC from Wal-Mart."
Flash is not the be-all and end-all of computing, and its not like its all that hard to install. If they can't figure it out, they can always ask some 13-year-old to help them.
As for the default monitor adjustment, I know a guy who's been using windows since 3.1, and he didn't know he could change his last monitor (a 21" beast) from 88x600 to 1600x1200, which is what it runs at on an older system now that I've "inherited" it as a freebee.
In other words, the complaints are nit-picks, and they'll be sorted out over the next little while, unlike the "file copy takes forever" bug in Vista.
"The modem doesn't work... Yes it is a Winmodem but should you build a box and put a none functioning modem in it?"
It also has a network card. If you're buying a "'net pc", you should at least have a half-decent net connection. Dial-up doesn't cut it any more. People move based on the availability of a decent net connection. Besides, if you really can't get anything other than dial-up, there's nothing stopping you from going through the local junk box and finding a real hardware-based modem. You should do that even with winboxen, since a winmodem sux, performance-wise.
"They didn't install Flash and don't seem to have a super easy way to install Flash."
The original article complained about "not being able to surf myspace" w/o flash. Myspace?!? Sounds like a plus to me.
Take the half-gig ram out, throw in 2 1-gig sticks, and you've got a decent, energy-efficient box for $300.00. Besides, there's nothing keeping people from installing RedHat or SuSE or Mandriva or whatever ...
Better yet, buy 2, and take the half-gig stick you took out of the first one and stick it in the second. This way, for $500 bux, you've got 2 boxes - one with a gig, one with 2 gigs.
The article was written by someone who "doesn't get it." Deducting points because it doesn't run Windows or Mac programs? Gee, do they do they deduct points from Windows because it doesn't run Mac or linux programs? The box does what its supposed to do, and it won't stop working in 6 months because its become loaded with malware.
I think they would make a great gift for people who are always bitching and whining about how their computer "stopped working".
"Why open 2 copies? Just use a split view."
Dual 19" monitors, different directory hierarchies on the local and remote machines, etc.
Look who the biggest advertiser is in PC Mag ... you know ... follow the money ...
The box does everything most people want - safe browsing on the web, email, and word processing. Throw in an extra stick of ram, and its a decent second box for a developer.
"Essentially all that's changed is that you won't be able to point and laugh at them on Yahoo Finance anymore."
Wanna bet? Alternate link to yahoo message board for SCOX.
If anyone deserves to be kicked on the way down, its' these SCOXsuckers ...
"Now - $21 million may seem like a considerable award. However, according the the RIAA's calculations, this only covers the single "Just a Lil Bit" by artist 50 Cent."
Since the award is to Antigua, and the profits of the award are to compensate Antigua, its the value in/to Antigua that counts. What the **AA thinks something is worth elsewhere is irrelevant.
Don't forget - this is as compensation to Antigua - its the revenue that is generated in or for Antigua that counts, not the "damage" elsewhere. They can use it to generate compensating revenues, up to the $21 million/year mark. If, for example, Microsoft was selling their crippleware for $3/unit in bulk, Antigua can now legally sell up to 7M copies a year at that price.
"The user has to get the openbsd server package now, but there's nothing easier than dragging and dropping files with Konqueror."
Definitely. Open up 2 copies of Konq. On one, have your local filesystem. On the other "fish://ip.to.remote.system". Drag your files between the 2 systems as required.
They don't have linux installed on their local machine? Give them a bootable cd/dvd/thumbdrive/whatever.
"If it's a Minicity link AND the user is anonymous, auto-ban them for a week."
s/auto-ban them for a week/beat them to a pulp/gi;
There, fixed that for you.
"See... that's the difference between people who understand the "warranty repair" concept, and those who don't."
It wasn't a warraty repair. that's why he had to pay $160.00 for a new drive. And THAT is the difference between people who understand the concept of RTFA and those who don't.
Apple was 100% in the wrong. He should sue.
The above link is a hoax - its some guy spamming to get traffic to his site, and has nothing to do with the article whatsoever.
Do you remember all the talk during the Apollo missions about the "danger of skipping off the earth's atmosphere"? It wasn't really that - it was coming in at an angle that meant you didn't get enough initial drag, so you ended up either in orbit, or back in space.
Do the same thing - intentionally - and you can reduce your speed from 24,500 mph to 18,000 mph - and you need a lot less robust (and lighter) heat shield, since you're only absorbing 1/4 the kinetic energy and converting it to heat.
Then dock with the ISS, and transfer to a descent pod.
Everyone here seems to have forgotten that all this was originally worked out by NASA back in the mid-'50s, and was the original "moon mission" plan, under the cancelled "Dyna-Soar" (Dynamic Soaring) configuration.
Its completely feasible. If you recall, its possible to "skip" off the outer atmosphere to reduce speed. The "dyna-soar" program that was shelved in the early 60s would have done the same thing.
This is not a "new" concept - its older than most slashdotters, having been originated in the mid-'50s, and is perfectly feasible.
Advantages - the "leo-to-lunar" craft doesn't need nearly as much re-entry shielding, since it only absorbs 1/4 the kinetic energy, the leo-to-earth craft doesn't need to be nearly as large, since it doesn't have to go from the earth to the moon and back to the surface, etc.
Now, why won't that work?
"One if by land, two if by sea ..."
Seriously, why not just do the moon mission, then pick up the landing bags as the ISS on the way home. Better yet, why not have a specialized vehicle just for orbit-to-moon-and-back, and transfer to a special-use re-entry vehicle at the ISS?
"Do you think it's just possible that an advanced civilization would understand the difference between fact and fiction?"
Hopefully they'll be further advanced than ours, and not mired in superstition/religion/whatever.
Of course, any contact with ANY alien civilization would quickly spell doom for many religions, such as christianity, which would become irrelevant.
I'll only address the last one for now (busy) - the use of pheromones to communicate.
Even in humans, it works. With dogs, whose sense of smell is about 1,000x more acute, a LOT of communication is scent-based. Observe dogs for a couple of decades and you'll catch on. Dogs can literally smell that you're afraid of them, just like they can smell cancer before most tests can detect it.
Ants communicate via scents they leave behind. Or consider snakes "tasting" the ground to track prey, etc.
Most communication, even among humans, is non-verbal.
"As far as I'm aware it only relies on the conflict between two assumptions: first, that intelligent life is common in the universe; and second, that intelligent life would be interested in exploration and communication, as we are. Neither of these assumptions is controversial."
There are other assumptions that you've ignored, as did Fermi. Just off the top of my head, here's 5 large assumptions that are left out.
"No proof (how could that ever be proven?) but lots of evidence... we haven't found any yet!"
And for most of mankinds' existence, there was no proof that oxygen existed. Or that atoms existed. Or bacteria. Or radio waves (we didn't "invent" them - Jupiter was emitting radio waves long before we existed) or X-rays, or gamma radiation, ...
There are other, more intelligent, ways to answer the question - the "we haven't found any yet!" isn't really all that good argument.
"There is not one iota of evidence that there exists one other intelligent form of life in the universe"
- Whales
- Dolphins
- Porpoises
- Dogs
- Chimpanzees
- Cats
- Crows
- Ravens
- Apes
- Rats
These are all intelligent life forms - they can learn, some of them make and use tools, and even know how to make their own home-made hooch.Now if you had said "There is not one iota of evidence that there exists ANY intelligent form of life in Washington", you might have been more right.
"Wouldn't we hear the captains log first?"
The captain would have to be taking an incredibly homungous dump for us to *hear* the sound of his "log" ...
Then again, in such a case it wouldn't be flushable, which explains "the captain's mess".
We're in bigger shit than you can imagine - they've already seen our "I Love Lucy" repeats ... and now that they've seen Aliens and Terminator, the *know* we're dangerous, and need to be exterminated. They are a bit worried about our ability to travel through time, as demonstrated by our having received technology from our future from something called "The Federation", so they'll just nuke us from orbit. After all, its the safest option.
Gee, just my programming/computer books number more than 100.
Add in a couple of decades of sci-fi, etc.,
I counted a couple of years ago, and I was just under 1,000. I'm sure to be over that now, and I'm probably not all that exceptional.
Besides, a wall of books just "looks right".