Value is a perception, and at a large scale, what the "Market will bear" in terms of price. Nobody can "steal" value.
While it is true attempting to hide cars in my lawn can cause other people to perceive that the value of my neighbors house is less than what it might be, that does not constitute the act of theft.
As it relates to copyright, the act of infringement does not alter the perception of value. In fact, a shitty movie will always have the same perceived value regardless of the level of infringement against its copyrights.
A great movie will always have the same perceived artistic and monetary value as well. Take any blockbuster, academy award winning movie, and really try telling me that some people that infringed upon the copyright took away that value.
What you are trying to say, in a very incorrect and illogical way, is that copyright infringement reduces the possible monetary compensation via the sale of copyright licenses (aka legal entitlements) to consumers. Which, btw, the copyright holder does not get to negotiate. That is set by copyright law. Any further attempts to add or restrict the "default" legal entitlements is a separate contract that may or may not be upheld by the various courts and jurisdictions. In simpler terms, your mileage may vary.
In any case the loss of monetary compensation absolutely true. To what extent the reduction is in terms of currency is highly debatable. Personally, I think there is a spectrum. One end is zero monetary loss and the other end is the full retail value of the license, and possibly upsells, medium shifts, rentals, etc. in perpetuity for every single act of infringement that can be traced back to the "root" infringement that is being argued in a civil court.
Obviously, both extremes are bullshit. I believe that very few acts of infringement (less than 20%) would have resulted in an actual sale. A couple thousand dollars for software I find more reasonable, and this is even with treble damages when proved. I don't think that any single act of infringement for books, music, or art, should ever exceed $5,000 per copyrighted work. Millions is just ridiculous at every level.
You're absolutely wrong about your understanding of value, and are confusing value with compensation. Again, nothing was taken in any meaningful sense.
A true patriot will shed his own blood to defend the freedoms for other people to scream at the top of their lungs, that which you would scream at the top of your lungs in opposition to.
Freedom is not selective. You either fight for all freedoms, or for none at all. Fighting for just those you agree with makes you an enemy of freedom, and in this case just a hypocrite.
You're love of freedom is not represented by a simple symbol, but your actions. Get over it.
The moment you try to introduce logic, sanity, and reason into arguments over copyrights, intellectual property, its role in society, and point out that it is not theft , you are categorized as a supporter of so-called piracy.
Making it a criminal act is beyond foolish. In the light of the current copyright and patent law, you might find yourself behind bars for actions you could not possibly predict. It has been shown in the past that people in whole different countries have come up with the same idea, and created art strikingly similar. Should a father go to prison for putting Eye of Tiger as a theme song to his two year old running around the back yard?
You made several assumptions about me, all incorrect.
I cherish The Public Domain above all else. The idea that the tremendous wealth we have as a people, everywhere on Earth, resides within the knowledge we have obtained and the art we have created. It is fundamentally, free from all restrictions.
People need to eat, and make a life for themselves. To that end, it makes perfect sense, that as a People, we all come to the agreement that the person who contributes to The Public Domain should be rewarded. This is done through copyright law, and the intent (the reasonable intent) was to provide temporary legal entitlements that allow them to control and profit from their efforts within reason. Afterwards, it RETURNS to The Public Domain.
As a People, creating laws to criminalize simple infringement of these temporary legal entitlements is eminently foolish for so many reasons. It would be instantly abused by those who have greater power and influence. At the end of the day we would be talking about taking away somebody's freedom over an idea, or expression. Quite frankly, that is insane to even contemplate.
I don't downplay anything when I speak about this. What I speak for is sane and reasonable copyright law to protect society. That includes the people you so passionately defend.
What has gotten out of control is the abuse of people that cannot defend themselves by the "Industry". Also lovingly referred to as Big Content. It is going too far, taking away too many fundamental freedoms like Privacy and Anonymity. How much more due process do they want to bypass?
It's not worth it.
If we get to a point that it is so easy to freely transmit ideas, and expressions that to protect the artist temporarily would hurt us more than help us, then we need to revisit how we construct our society.
Attributing the word theft incorrectly towards the act of infringement is a step down a road we don't want to be on. I'm sorry you feel that my position, which is reasonable, is somehow callous and disrespectful to the creators.
You have an agreement with your bank. They keep track of the balances. Just because the "computerized system" was altered to change that balance, does not change the fact the bank legally owes you X amount of currency. You were not deprived of anything and the bank would need to prove you authorized the transfer, which they could not.
What you are speaking about would be prosecuted under different criminal laws! None of which, would be theft. They would throw fraud at you, and various laws that relate to communications. More than likely across state lines. Do you think any hacker is in prison now for grand larceny?
LOL. Nope.
That's what I love to explain to people too stubborn to accept that copyright infringement is not theft. There are no criminal prosecutions. Everything you hear about is civil still. The criminal prosecutions are for criminal levels of copyright infringement which are never related to downloading, but actions that involve actual profit.
Why I fight it so hard is so that it remains in the civil courts where it belongs. Theft..... please. If any of you guys were right then you could show criminal prosecutions for it. You can't. It's not.
Stop cooperating with them. Acknowledging that I am right does not mean you are supporting piracy. Just a more sane, and correct, interpretation of law and logic.
LMFAO.
I can perform theft with some SQL statements. This may be the hardest I laughed in 2011.
I assume your talking about those assholes that speed up to block you the moment you put on your turn signal. I hate those mfckers.
Which is why this system would prevent my patented "drunk man behind the wheel" maneuver. Asshole does not want to respond your signal and let you in? Just start drifting over a little, correct, and then drift back more forcefully.
If they think you are lucid, they become aggressive. If they think you are having problems it is amazing how much distance they give you right away.
Of course, when I had a F350 raised up, everybody gave me room right away. I miss that beast.
P.S - Yes. I fully acknowledge that I am psychopath on the road, but then I view it as warfare just like the poster you replied to.
Your argument has one major, sincere, problem. Nothing was taken, and Nothing needed to reimbursed. Nada. Zilch. El Zippo.
As far as calculating damages goes, it is a major logical flaw to assume that all instances of infringement would have resulted in a sale. You are entirely correct that it does not change the morality of the act. It does change the assumptions though.
The original AC poster screaming at the "morons" that cannot understand theft echoes my sentiments exactly.
You can't treat IP as physical property and apply the logic that you do. It is understandable that there has been some confusion because before the "digital" age the distribution of IP was accomplished via physical means that had actual value separate from the IP. So technically, you could steal a CD, book, or VHS tape movie. What you stole was the physical property, not the IP. In fact, in those cases of physical theft no actual infringement occurred.
If I pirate a movie right now, none of the physical equipment that was used by myself was stolen. My laptop was legally purchased. I reside in a residence that am I legally entitled to reside in. My electricity bill is paid. My Internet service is paid for.
All those zeroes and ones were rightfully compensated by me.
What I did end up doing however, was infringe upon the legal entitlements granted to a copyright holder by the United States of America, via The People, to control the distribution and profit from what that binary data represented.
That is what is so hard to get through people's heads. I never stole anything or deprived anyone of anything physical. I was in breach of a legal contract.
This is not pedantic either, but a highly crucial understanding of law and how it relates the proper functioning of society. When you apply the word theft, and the logic accompanying it, you are not only wrong, but doing a disservice to society.
Intellectual Property and the Public Domain should never be used to advance and agenda that ultimately ends up compromising, abrogating, or outright destroying the freedoms we are all entitled to as free thinking human beings.
Stop using the word theft. It is still wrong, we both agree on that, in so far as we agree that a society needs to compensate our artistic creators that provide us with a rich life of ideas and art.
It is, and should remain, a civil matter between two parties. Introducing theft, and that twisted logic, only serves to pervert those proceedings into something criminal and restrain what should always have been free. The Internet and my own personal area of Cyberspace.
So I completely understand the thoughts that different cultures have when they look at it, even simplistically, because at the end of the day VISA is doing nothing for merchants other than providing a different payment method.
That's all they do. An alternate payment method that charges 3% of revenue. Not 3% of profit, but revenue.
When I get to see a customer face to face, I have a hard time justifying spending 3% of revenue just so they can use a piece of plastic. Like you pointed out though, more people today cannot afford to buy stuff in a retail store from actual disposable income, than those that could purchase it with disposable income. Which is why I pointed out that so many "holdouts" that would not touch VISA with a ten foot pole, now have merchant accounts.
That being said, they were dragged literally kicking and screaming to get merchant accounts because of those feelings that there was no value there for them. They still feel like they are getting fucked for the privilege, which is true, let's not kid ourselves, so they immediately push the cost off the customer.
I feel that happens for two reasons:
1) Historically, they never considered 3% of revenue as part of the cost of doing most of their business. Hence, that 3% is included in some thin profit margins. 2) Culturally, they dislike the idea so much they see it as completely reasonable with their own culture and customer base to penalize the use of such "ridiculousness".
Well it can be easier to hide income from the IRS with cash. However, you have to track your commodities and collect state sales tax too. If you review your consumption of commodities it is not that hard to see a massive discrepancy in cash revenue declared versus what should be received. In a situation like that your margin for profit on undeclared revenue is pretty small if you want to remain reasonably safe against an uncomfortable audit.
Laundromats could be easier since customers bring in their own soap and all you have to account for is water and electricity usage which could vary wildly. Not like you track each purchase with coin counters or anything.
Strip clubs are the most famous since that is nearly impossible to track. The booze is only a small part of the business overall.
However, most business owners I know are not trying to cheat the local government out of sales tax, or the federal government either. Their big problem is understanding why VISA should get 3% of revenue when VISA does not mop the floors, wash the dishes, or cook the Kung Pao chicken. VISA gets 3% for doing absolutely nothing for them.
I have a hard time understanding it too. Percentage based is a fucking ripoff and a half. It's only that high partially because of fraud.
- 3% of revenue - 14-29% interest rate on debt - yearly fees
Just how much do they fucking need for running a transaction? It's not like they really care to do it that securely either.
So I completely understand the thoughts that different cultures have when they look at it, even simplistically, because at the end of the day VISA is doing nothing for merchants other than providing a different payment method.
For small retail shops it just does not make a lot of sense to them when they personally interact with the customer and carrying a small amount of $cash around should not be out of the ordinary. It's not like it stops people from getting mugged to have no cash on them. They still lose their wallet, identification, and have to cancel all their cards. In fact, if you kept a small amount of cash on you, in a bill fold, separate from your identification, you could mitigate a lot of that frustration in the first place.
Which is why I mentioned the bubble. Those same business owners that would never touch a merchant account 3 years ago turned to me for help because, in one guy's own words, "my customers don't have that much money anymore. VISA still has a ton of money to give me".
VISA makes sense for online transactions where you can't take cash, don't want to mess around with checks (even though I work with payment processors that can do it in real time), and need an easy way to take money. For anybody reading this, check transactions don't run on a percentage. Just expect about 50c to a $1 per transaction to run it. That includes account validation and available funds validation in real time. You still have the risk they write too many checks until yours clears, but the risk of that $25 bank fee is well mitigated.
3% for credit cards online is still steep, but you can wrap that up in the price of the commodity or service and hopefully it all washes out with your competitors.
It's a completely illegal practice as far as the contracts are concerned, but wide spread. Ethnic store owners are the biggest violators. Every time I went down to China Town, the Korean markets, Mexican grocery stores,.etc, the signs were (still are) prominently displayed. $10-$15 minimum for credit and $1.50 for the transaction.
In fact, I view it as a sign of an upcoming bubble that will burst with the credit card debt that more ethnic store owners even accept credit in the first place. 9/10 places I went for pho and dim sum did not accept credit cards at all just 3 years ago. They all do now and I believe it is because their customer base ran out of disposable cash income and needed to start running up credit just to live.
I totally understand it. The idea of credit is bullshit to most Chinese people I know and they think it is crazy to rack up debt like that. It's a cultural thing. Why does VISA get 3% of my revenue (not profit) just for being there? Fuck that shit. Cash mother fuckers. Cash. I am paraphrasing a friend who owns a tea shop.
It's not that Verizon was trying to pass off the cost to the consumer (which is ultimately passed off anyways via a raise in commodity prices), it's that they were also penalizing online transactions. Going paperless and paying online actually saves them a considerable amount of money and manpower. I thought that was the whole point?
Somebody that big and visible trying to get away with it was just foolish. They are a giant compared to the small little grains of sand that the convenience stores are.
Don't bother reporting the small guys to VISA for doing it to you. One way or the other you are paying for the ease of settling your debt. Debit fucks you to your face. Credit fucks you from behind. Either way, you are getting fucked.
Cash and cash discounts are the best way to live. Which is why I respect the small ethnic places so much. They are willing to give you the discount because they are acknowledging the bullshit of the costs as they see it. Better than not getting a discount.
There is a love affair with being an outlaw. The outsider, the whole hacker manifesto.
Growing up as kid I was the stereotypical nerd/geek that would take things apart, hack into them, re-purpose them, etc.
With technology becoming so fundamental to our way of life, children don't see using smart phones, tablets, computers as geeky anymore. The person that can "rootkit" a device, really own it, etc. has become the new cool.
Locking down the tools and the equipment? That will only put gasoline on a fire. Best way to encourage youth to break the law is to make something popular and fun illegal.
The War on Drugs, cigarettes, and liquor has sure kept kids from using it huh?
Sometimes I think the best way to get kids to read would be to outlaw the books.
Re:I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Da
on
How Doctors Die
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· Score: 1
How do you live and treat others being that serious all the time?
Since I am involved with development I know how long it takes to actually make something. Also, being involved in vendor-lock-in hell gives me another perspective too.
I understand that the hardware might not be able to handle it, but I am not sure that document systems have the IP stack implemented in hardware and not software like higher end switches.
Your points are valid, but when it is possible years is not an excuse. Linksys literally took years because they did not care about making firmware updates, not because it was hard. I have been involved with very complex platforms and pushed out tens of thousands of lines of code in just a few months. So I have no sympathy for a Enterprise vendor with the budget that can't do a complex firmware update in less than a year.
The point about low-level devices is well taken. If it can't be implemented in software, then there really is no solution but to provide hybrid support (not difficult) until you can justify replacement.
However, on multi-thousand dollar switches I would be surprised if the hardware could not handle it. Then again, I fully admit, I am not a deep down hardware guy. I just get frustrated when IPv6 adoption is thrust upon businesses first when it is more complicated than that (we both seem to agree on that at least), and you can't justify the budget when such a small portion of your possible market even uses it yet.
I know that the low-end routers for consumers can support IPv6 since DD-WRT supports it and can be installed on a wide variety of switches. When more than 25% of consumers support IPv6 connections (along with the ISPs) then I will have a much better case to spend tens of thousands of dollars replacing routers and switches.
Re:I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Da
on
How Doctors Die
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· Score: 1
Perhaps the parent has and he has learned that death comes to us all, and all that matters is how you lived life and treated others.
7 MB jpg background picture uploaded to the site. Why is it taking so long to load? You guys suck at keeping the server running or must use crappy services.
Two developers that could not figure out to sync the site between them overwriting their changes on each other. Have we been hacked? What's going on?!
A "developer" that was hired based on their fluency in javascript, html, css, etc. handed over a page with instructions, "hook it up to the database. otherwise its ready". They just copied and pasted javascript functions from tutorial sites, etc. without even binding them correctly. I knew that, and I am not a web developer:)
My favorite was a web developer who claimed he was better with computers than I was simply because he could make a website and I couldn't (Which is not true. I just hate CSS and cross browser support so much I refuse). "I could replace you with somebody from geek squad".
That's the difference between "developers" and "programmers":)
Re:I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Da
on
How Doctors Die
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· Score: 5, Funny
IT has something similar. Everyone of us has experienced it.
Poor bastard brings in a laptop with that forlorn look on their faces. "Dude... save my porn". You boot up and the drive is not recognized. Take it out, hook it up it for diagnostics and it is dead. No S.M.A.R.T status, nothing. You gently touch the drive and there are no RPMs .
You sit him down, and explain carefully, that the drive is dead. It could have been overheating from leaving the laptop on the bed while going to town with that whole bottle of hand lotion.
There is an outside chance, experimental even, that you could open the drive and transplant it into a working one. The transplant waiting list is not just long, but extremely expensive and not guaranteed. (I had one guy explain to me that the platters looked like an airplane came in for a hard landing and scratched the whole surface deeply).
He leaves laptop in hand, tears freely flowing, and you look to your buddy and tell him, "Dude if I ever lose my porn like that just kill me". Then you remember that you have knowledge and it is protected with ZFS and scrubbing. Thank God.
I can understand switches needing to be replaced, but that is typically less expensive than a router. That would not break us. Additionally, we can have a hybrid environment internally at least.
It comes down the router. I did not think about the ASIC only being able to handle IPv4. At least not on a multi-thousand dollar router.
You bring up a good point, and it is going to be very very hard to justify the expense for business until consumer adoption reaches a certain point.
It's like a major business push to be supporting something browser specific when that browser has less than 1% of the market share and the costs of support and implementation are non-trivial to say the least.
To my knowledge DD-WRT does have IPv6 support, so consumer adoption is possible for that small portion of the market, which means it is possible for the major manufacturers to push out an update for consumers. Even an advertisement campaign, rewards, etc.
It would be in their interests too. If I knew that consumer adoption was reaching even 25% for IPv6 I would start seriously considering the financial investment for the new routers from the manufacturers.
Until then, if they want me to spend 5k plus on a router, it must have more benefits than just IPv6.
Basically, it is not businesses that can push this, but consumers first. ISP>Consumers>Businesses. Only way I see it making sense for us.
The problem is not learning IPv6. That's easy. At least to anyone with more than a little experience doing this. I was working before the Internet even came around and before Ethernet, so I don't see it as a big obstacle.
Where is all the fucking Enterprise hardware and firmware updates to support it?.
That's what needs to be solved. I could support IPv6 tomorrow if it was a simple firmware change. IPv6 will not be rolled out into Enterprise environments for at least 10-15 years completely. Reason why is simple. Not every network device supports it. I got clients that still have 5 years or more to go on lease contracts for huge printer and document systems. No IPv6 firmware updates in the pipeline that I know about.
Operating systems will be faster of course, but you need to cover all of the devices first.
My biggest issue is the routers themselves. If you are running a business or have branch offices, you are not, or should not, be doing that on any hardware you can pick up at BestBuy. Prosumer or higher routers that can set up multiple WAN ports don't have IPv6 yet. Perhaps the absolute newest ones might, but that could represent 20-30k in new equipment costs for a medium sized business with branch offices. For what? Just IPv6?
Unless the manufactures get off their asses, stop being greedy, and push out a firmware update for existing hardware to support IPv6 there will be a lot of people like me that have two choices:
1) Stay with IPv4 2) Spend tens of thousands of dollars on new hardware.
Tough situation.
P.S - Why do any of that until at least 1/3rd of all customers are using IPv6?
I did not even bother. I got 16 static IP addresses on of my last orders and I told them flat out on the phone I only need 1. You can keep the other 15.
I ended up keeping 2 to split the network off, but let them keep the other 14.
How do you sell it anyways? It's not like I can call up the ISP and tell them to transfer 14 IP addresses to a different account like a telephone number.
You're being too harsh. There are very very few marketers that know anything about the product they are selling in depth.
How does an IT person or engineer hire a marketer?
It's a lot harder than you think. You lack the knowledge and skills to even evaluate that person and the only thing you can really rely on is the sales pitch and some referrals. Possibly a background check.
He must have had "connections" that he bullshitted with somebody else and made a good sales pitch to Avenger.
The ol' fake-it-till-you-make-it approach has nailed quite a few businesses with bad people ultimately delivering poor quality product.
The vast majority of all sociopathic PHB's are MBAs. Therefore, all MBAs must exhibit the traits of a PHB. Idiot, is just one of the many traits, and quite frankly, one of the most benign.
It's a logical fallacy, but you have to forgive us. People that have MBAs are largely responsible for all the bullshit in the economy and the continued hell that is IT.
However, the fact you figured out the EtchASketch we gave you was not a real laptop gives you mad props on Slashdot now. You figured out how to post, and as a non-AC even.
You hear that Slashdot! Tripleevanfall is a made man now! Nobody fucks with him anymore!
I have seen it from every angle. I am a programmer, sysadmin, tech, grunt, etc. Laid CAT5 in the walls, used punch down tools, programmed apps, database maintenance, created and repaired workstations and servers from scratch, etc.
Currently the CTO for a medium sized business with a bunch of branch offices.
I don't want to guard anything so that I have to do it myself. Prefer that you do it. However, my biggest challenge is balancing security. Developers always seem to want root. That's not happening anytime soon, and for good reasons.
You would not have those kind of problems working with me. If you need something, I will figure out a way to get it done as long it does not compromise security to an unacceptable level.
You're acting like I am making that shit up. There are dirty panty vending machines right now having money inserted in as we speak.
The Japanese are freaks. Give the Germans a run for their money.
Before anybody gets all butthurt, I say it with the utmost admiration and respect. The Japanese can be pretty damn serious and prurient at times which is paradoxical, but boy, when they decide to get funky and party, they get funky and partaaaay.
Slashdot Mirror
Value is a perception, and at a large scale, what the "Market will bear" in terms of price. Nobody can "steal" value.
While it is true attempting to hide cars in my lawn can cause other people to perceive that the value of my neighbors house is less than what it might be, that does not constitute the act of theft.
As it relates to copyright, the act of infringement does not alter the perception of value. In fact, a shitty movie will always have the same perceived value regardless of the level of infringement against its copyrights.
A great movie will always have the same perceived artistic and monetary value as well. Take any blockbuster, academy award winning movie, and really try telling me that some people that infringed upon the copyright took away that value.
What you are trying to say, in a very incorrect and illogical way, is that copyright infringement reduces the possible monetary compensation via the sale of copyright licenses (aka legal entitlements) to consumers. Which, btw, the copyright holder does not get to negotiate. That is set by copyright law. Any further attempts to add or restrict the "default" legal entitlements is a separate contract that may or may not be upheld by the various courts and jurisdictions. In simpler terms, your mileage may vary.
In any case the loss of monetary compensation absolutely true. To what extent the reduction is in terms of currency is highly debatable. Personally, I think there is a spectrum. One end is zero monetary loss and the other end is the full retail value of the license, and possibly upsells, medium shifts, rentals, etc. in perpetuity for every single act of infringement that can be traced back to the "root" infringement that is being argued in a civil court.
Obviously, both extremes are bullshit. I believe that very few acts of infringement (less than 20%) would have resulted in an actual sale. A couple thousand dollars for software I find more reasonable, and this is even with treble damages when proved. I don't think that any single act of infringement for books, music, or art, should ever exceed $5,000 per copyrighted work. Millions is just ridiculous at every level.
You're absolutely wrong about your understanding of value, and are confusing value with compensation. Again, nothing was taken in any meaningful sense.
Well you're a hypocrite sweet cheeks.
A true patriot will shed his own blood to defend the freedoms for other people to scream at the top of their lungs, that which you would scream at the top of your lungs in opposition to.
Freedom is not selective. You either fight for all freedoms, or for none at all. Fighting for just those you agree with makes you an enemy of freedom, and in this case just a hypocrite.
You're love of freedom is not represented by a simple symbol, but your actions. Get over it.
Thanks for bringing up another problem.
The moment you try to introduce logic, sanity, and reason into arguments over copyrights, intellectual property, its role in society, and point out that it is not theft , you are categorized as a supporter of so-called piracy.
Making it a criminal act is beyond foolish. In the light of the current copyright and patent law, you might find yourself behind bars for actions you could not possibly predict. It has been shown in the past that people in whole different countries have come up with the same idea, and created art strikingly similar. Should a father go to prison for putting Eye of Tiger as a theme song to his two year old running around the back yard?
You made several assumptions about me, all incorrect.
I cherish The Public Domain above all else. The idea that the tremendous wealth we have as a people, everywhere on Earth, resides within the knowledge we have obtained and the art we have created. It is fundamentally, free from all restrictions.
People need to eat, and make a life for themselves. To that end, it makes perfect sense, that as a People, we all come to the agreement that the person who contributes to The Public Domain should be rewarded. This is done through copyright law, and the intent (the reasonable intent) was to provide temporary legal entitlements that allow them to control and profit from their efforts within reason. Afterwards, it RETURNS to The Public Domain.
As a People, creating laws to criminalize simple infringement of these temporary legal entitlements is eminently foolish for so many reasons. It would be instantly abused by those who have greater power and influence. At the end of the day we would be talking about taking away somebody's freedom over an idea, or expression. Quite frankly, that is insane to even contemplate.
I don't downplay anything when I speak about this. What I speak for is sane and reasonable copyright law to protect society. That includes the people you so passionately defend.
What has gotten out of control is the abuse of people that cannot defend themselves by the "Industry". Also lovingly referred to as Big Content. It is going too far, taking away too many fundamental freedoms like Privacy and Anonymity. How much more due process do they want to bypass?
It's not worth it.
If we get to a point that it is so easy to freely transmit ideas, and expressions that to protect the artist temporarily would hurt us more than help us, then we need to revisit how we construct our society.
Attributing the word theft incorrectly towards the act of infringement is a step down a road we don't want to be on. I'm sorry you feel that my position, which is reasonable, is somehow callous and disrespectful to the creators.
LOL
No..... It was not theft.
You have an agreement with your bank. They keep track of the balances. Just because the "computerized system" was altered to change that balance, does not change the fact the bank legally owes you X amount of currency. You were not deprived of anything and the bank would need to prove you authorized the transfer, which they could not.
What you are speaking about would be prosecuted under different criminal laws! None of which, would be theft. They would throw fraud at you, and various laws that relate to communications. More than likely across state lines. Do you think any hacker is in prison now for grand larceny?
LOL. Nope.
That's what I love to explain to people too stubborn to accept that copyright infringement is not theft. There are no criminal prosecutions. Everything you hear about is civil still. The criminal prosecutions are for criminal levels of copyright infringement which are never related to downloading, but actions that involve actual profit.
Why I fight it so hard is so that it remains in the civil courts where it belongs. Theft..... please. If any of you guys were right then you could show criminal prosecutions for it. You can't. It's not.
Stop cooperating with them. Acknowledging that I am right does not mean you are supporting piracy. Just a more sane, and correct, interpretation of law and logic.
LMFAO.
I can perform theft with some SQL statements. This may be the hardest I laughed in 2011.
I assume your talking about those assholes that speed up to block you the moment you put on your turn signal. I hate those mfckers.
Which is why this system would prevent my patented "drunk man behind the wheel" maneuver. Asshole does not want to respond your signal and let you in? Just start drifting over a little, correct, and then drift back more forcefully.
If they think you are lucid, they become aggressive. If they think you are having problems it is amazing how much distance they give you right away.
Of course, when I had a F350 raised up, everybody gave me room right away. I miss that beast.
P.S - Yes. I fully acknowledge that I am psychopath on the road, but then I view it as warfare just like the poster you replied to.
Your argument has one major, sincere, problem. Nothing was taken, and Nothing needed to reimbursed. Nada. Zilch. El Zippo.
As far as calculating damages goes, it is a major logical flaw to assume that all instances of infringement would have resulted in a sale. You are entirely correct that it does not change the morality of the act. It does change the assumptions though.
The original AC poster screaming at the "morons" that cannot understand theft echoes my sentiments exactly.
You can't treat IP as physical property and apply the logic that you do. It is understandable that there has been some confusion because before the "digital" age the distribution of IP was accomplished via physical means that had actual value separate from the IP. So technically, you could steal a CD, book, or VHS tape movie. What you stole was the physical property, not the IP. In fact, in those cases of physical theft no actual infringement occurred.
If I pirate a movie right now, none of the physical equipment that was used by myself was stolen. My laptop was legally purchased. I reside in a residence that am I legally entitled to reside in. My electricity bill is paid. My Internet service is paid for.
All those zeroes and ones were rightfully compensated by me.
What I did end up doing however, was infringe upon the legal entitlements granted to a copyright holder by the United States of America, via The People, to control the distribution and profit from what that binary data represented.
That is what is so hard to get through people's heads. I never stole anything or deprived anyone of anything physical. I was in breach of a legal contract.
This is not pedantic either, but a highly crucial understanding of law and how it relates the proper functioning of society. When you apply the word theft, and the logic accompanying it, you are not only wrong, but doing a disservice to society.
Intellectual Property and the Public Domain should never be used to advance and agenda that ultimately ends up compromising, abrogating, or outright destroying the freedoms we are all entitled to as free thinking human beings.
Stop using the word theft. It is still wrong, we both agree on that, in so far as we agree that a society needs to compensate our artistic creators that provide us with a rich life of ideas and art.
It is, and should remain, a civil matter between two parties. Introducing theft, and that twisted logic, only serves to pervert those proceedings into something criminal and restrain what should always have been free. The Internet and my own personal area of Cyberspace.
I also said this,
So I completely understand the thoughts that different cultures have when they look at it, even simplistically, because at the end of the day VISA is doing nothing for merchants other than providing a different payment method.
That's all they do. An alternate payment method that charges 3% of revenue. Not 3% of profit, but revenue.
When I get to see a customer face to face, I have a hard time justifying spending 3% of revenue just so they can use a piece of plastic. Like you pointed out though, more people today cannot afford to buy stuff in a retail store from actual disposable income, than those that could purchase it with disposable income. Which is why I pointed out that so many "holdouts" that would not touch VISA with a ten foot pole, now have merchant accounts.
That being said, they were dragged literally kicking and screaming to get merchant accounts because of those feelings that there was no value there for them. They still feel like they are getting fucked for the privilege, which is true, let's not kid ourselves, so they immediately push the cost off the customer.
I feel that happens for two reasons:
1) Historically, they never considered 3% of revenue as part of the cost of doing most of their business. Hence, that 3% is included in some thin profit margins.
2) Culturally, they dislike the idea so much they see it as completely reasonable with their own culture and customer base to penalize the use of such "ridiculousness".
Well it can be easier to hide income from the IRS with cash. However, you have to track your commodities and collect state sales tax too. If you review your consumption of commodities it is not that hard to see a massive discrepancy in cash revenue declared versus what should be received. In a situation like that your margin for profit on undeclared revenue is pretty small if you want to remain reasonably safe against an uncomfortable audit.
Laundromats could be easier since customers bring in their own soap and all you have to account for is water and electricity usage which could vary wildly. Not like you track each purchase with coin counters or anything.
Strip clubs are the most famous since that is nearly impossible to track. The booze is only a small part of the business overall.
However, most business owners I know are not trying to cheat the local government out of sales tax, or the federal government either. Their big problem is understanding why VISA should get 3% of revenue when VISA does not mop the floors, wash the dishes, or cook the Kung Pao chicken. VISA gets 3% for doing absolutely nothing for them.
I have a hard time understanding it too. Percentage based is a fucking ripoff and a half. It's only that high partially because of fraud.
- 3% of revenue
- 14-29% interest rate on debt
- yearly fees
Just how much do they fucking need for running a transaction? It's not like they really care to do it that securely either.
So I completely understand the thoughts that different cultures have when they look at it, even simplistically, because at the end of the day VISA is doing nothing for merchants other than providing a different payment method.
For small retail shops it just does not make a lot of sense to them when they personally interact with the customer and carrying a small amount of $cash around should not be out of the ordinary. It's not like it stops people from getting mugged to have no cash on them. They still lose their wallet, identification, and have to cancel all their cards. In fact, if you kept a small amount of cash on you, in a bill fold, separate from your identification, you could mitigate a lot of that frustration in the first place.
Which is why I mentioned the bubble. Those same business owners that would never touch a merchant account 3 years ago turned to me for help because, in one guy's own words, "my customers don't have that much money anymore. VISA still has a ton of money to give me".
VISA makes sense for online transactions where you can't take cash, don't want to mess around with checks (even though I work with payment processors that can do it in real time), and need an easy way to take money. For anybody reading this, check transactions don't run on a percentage. Just expect about 50c to a $1 per transaction to run it. That includes account validation and available funds validation in real time. You still have the risk they write too many checks until yours clears, but the risk of that $25 bank fee is well mitigated.
3% for credit cards online is still steep, but you can wrap that up in the price of the commodity or service and hopefully it all washes out with your competitors.
It's a completely illegal practice as far as the contracts are concerned, but wide spread. Ethnic store owners are the biggest violators. Every time I went down to China Town, the Korean markets, Mexican grocery stores, .etc, the signs were (still are) prominently displayed. $10-$15 minimum for credit and $1.50 for the transaction.
In fact, I view it as a sign of an upcoming bubble that will burst with the credit card debt that more ethnic store owners even accept credit in the first place. 9/10 places I went for pho and dim sum did not accept credit cards at all just 3 years ago. They all do now and I believe it is because their customer base ran out of disposable cash income and needed to start running up credit just to live.
I totally understand it. The idea of credit is bullshit to most Chinese people I know and they think it is crazy to rack up debt like that. It's a cultural thing. Why does VISA get 3% of my revenue (not profit) just for being there? Fuck that shit. Cash mother fuckers. Cash. I am paraphrasing a friend who owns a tea shop.
It's not that Verizon was trying to pass off the cost to the consumer (which is ultimately passed off anyways via a raise in commodity prices), it's that they were also penalizing online transactions. Going paperless and paying online actually saves them a considerable amount of money and manpower. I thought that was the whole point?
Somebody that big and visible trying to get away with it was just foolish. They are a giant compared to the small little grains of sand that the convenience stores are.
Don't bother reporting the small guys to VISA for doing it to you. One way or the other you are paying for the ease of settling your debt. Debit fucks you to your face. Credit fucks you from behind. Either way, you are getting fucked.
Cash and cash discounts are the best way to live. Which is why I respect the small ethnic places so much. They are willing to give you the discount because they are acknowledging the bullshit of the costs as they see it. Better than not getting a discount.
There is a love affair with being an outlaw. The outsider, the whole hacker manifesto.
Growing up as kid I was the stereotypical nerd/geek that would take things apart, hack into them, re-purpose them, etc.
With technology becoming so fundamental to our way of life, children don't see using smart phones, tablets, computers as geeky anymore. The person that can "rootkit" a device, really own it, etc. has become the new cool.
Locking down the tools and the equipment? That will only put gasoline on a fire. Best way to encourage youth to break the law is to make something popular and fun illegal.
The War on Drugs, cigarettes, and liquor has sure kept kids from using it huh?
Sometimes I think the best way to get kids to read would be to outlaw the books.
How do you live and treat others being that serious all the time?
Peace Brother
Since I am involved with development I know how long it takes to actually make something. Also, being involved in vendor-lock-in hell gives me another perspective too.
I understand that the hardware might not be able to handle it, but I am not sure that document systems have the IP stack implemented in hardware and not software like higher end switches.
Your points are valid, but when it is possible years is not an excuse. Linksys literally took years because they did not care about making firmware updates, not because it was hard. I have been involved with very complex platforms and pushed out tens of thousands of lines of code in just a few months. So I have no sympathy for a Enterprise vendor with the budget that can't do a complex firmware update in less than a year.
The point about low-level devices is well taken. If it can't be implemented in software, then there really is no solution but to provide hybrid support (not difficult) until you can justify replacement.
However, on multi-thousand dollar switches I would be surprised if the hardware could not handle it. Then again, I fully admit, I am not a deep down hardware guy. I just get frustrated when IPv6 adoption is thrust upon businesses first when it is more complicated than that (we both seem to agree on that at least), and you can't justify the budget when such a small portion of your possible market even uses it yet.
I know that the low-end routers for consumers can support IPv6 since DD-WRT supports it and can be installed on a wide variety of switches. When more than 25% of consumers support IPv6 connections (along with the ISPs) then I will have a much better case to spend tens of thousands of dollars replacing routers and switches.
Perhaps the parent has and he has learned that death comes to us all, and all that matters is how you lived life and treated others.
Lighten up a bit dude :)
Welll..... if it is going to be captained by Sulu I think the love scenes are going to turn out a bit differently.....
Yeah..... much the same experience over here :)
7 MB jpg background picture uploaded to the site. Why is it taking so long to load? You guys suck at keeping the server running or must use crappy services.
Two developers that could not figure out to sync the site between them overwriting their changes on each other. Have we been hacked? What's going on?!
A "developer" that was hired based on their fluency in javascript, html, css, etc. handed over a page with instructions, "hook it up to the database. otherwise its ready". They just copied and pasted javascript functions from tutorial sites, etc. without even binding them correctly. I knew that, and I am not a web developer :)
My favorite was a web developer who claimed he was better with computers than I was simply because he could make a website and I couldn't (Which is not true. I just hate CSS and cross browser support so much I refuse). "I could replace you with somebody from geek squad".
That's the difference between "developers" and "programmers" :)
IT has something similar. Everyone of us has experienced it.
Poor bastard brings in a laptop with that forlorn look on their faces. "Dude... save my porn". You boot up and the drive is not recognized. Take it out, hook it up it for diagnostics and it is dead. No S.M.A.R.T status, nothing. You gently touch the drive and there are no RPMs .
You sit him down, and explain carefully, that the drive is dead. It could have been overheating from leaving the laptop on the bed while going to town with that whole bottle of hand lotion.
There is an outside chance, experimental even, that you could open the drive and transplant it into a working one. The transplant waiting list is not just long, but extremely expensive and not guaranteed. (I had one guy explain to me that the platters looked like an airplane came in for a hard landing and scratched the whole surface deeply).
He leaves laptop in hand, tears freely flowing, and you look to your buddy and tell him, "Dude if I ever lose my porn like that just kill me". Then you remember that you have knowledge and it is protected with ZFS and scrubbing. Thank God.
I can understand switches needing to be replaced, but that is typically less expensive than a router. That would not break us. Additionally, we can have a hybrid environment internally at least.
It comes down the router. I did not think about the ASIC only being able to handle IPv4. At least not on a multi-thousand dollar router.
You bring up a good point, and it is going to be very very hard to justify the expense for business until consumer adoption reaches a certain point.
It's like a major business push to be supporting something browser specific when that browser has less than 1% of the market share and the costs of support and implementation are non-trivial to say the least.
To my knowledge DD-WRT does have IPv6 support, so consumer adoption is possible for that small portion of the market, which means it is possible for the major manufacturers to push out an update for consumers. Even an advertisement campaign, rewards, etc.
It would be in their interests too. If I knew that consumer adoption was reaching even 25% for IPv6 I would start seriously considering the financial investment for the new routers from the manufacturers.
Until then, if they want me to spend 5k plus on a router, it must have more benefits than just IPv6.
Basically, it is not businesses that can push this, but consumers first. ISP>Consumers>Businesses. Only way I see it making sense for us.
The problem is not learning IPv6. That's easy. At least to anyone with more than a little experience doing this. I was working before the Internet even came around and before Ethernet, so I don't see it as a big obstacle.
Where is all the fucking Enterprise hardware and firmware updates to support it?.
That's what needs to be solved. I could support IPv6 tomorrow if it was a simple firmware change. IPv6 will not be rolled out into Enterprise environments for at least 10-15 years completely. Reason why is simple. Not every network device supports it. I got clients that still have 5 years or more to go on lease contracts for huge printer and document systems. No IPv6 firmware updates in the pipeline that I know about.
Operating systems will be faster of course, but you need to cover all of the devices first.
My biggest issue is the routers themselves. If you are running a business or have branch offices, you are not, or should not, be doing that on any hardware you can pick up at BestBuy. Prosumer or higher routers that can set up multiple WAN ports don't have IPv6 yet. Perhaps the absolute newest ones might, but that could represent 20-30k in new equipment costs for a medium sized business with branch offices. For what? Just IPv6?
Unless the manufactures get off their asses, stop being greedy, and push out a firmware update for existing hardware to support IPv6 there will be a lot of people like me that have two choices:
1) Stay with IPv4
2) Spend tens of thousands of dollars on new hardware.
Tough situation.
P.S - Why do any of that until at least 1/3rd of all customers are using IPv6?
I did not even bother. I got 16 static IP addresses on of my last orders and I told them flat out on the phone I only need 1. You can keep the other 15.
I ended up keeping 2 to split the network off, but let them keep the other 14.
How do you sell it anyways? It's not like I can call up the ISP and tell them to transfer 14 IP addresses to a different account like a telephone number.
You're being too harsh. There are very very few marketers that know anything about the product they are selling in depth.
How does an IT person or engineer hire a marketer?
It's a lot harder than you think. You lack the knowledge and skills to even evaluate that person and the only thing you can really rely on is the sales pitch and some referrals. Possibly a background check.
He must have had "connections" that he bullshitted with somebody else and made a good sales pitch to Avenger.
The ol' fake-it-till-you-make-it approach has nailed quite a few businesses with bad people ultimately delivering poor quality product.
My favorite is, "Never kick a dog before you know its master".
Correlation does not imply causation
The vast majority of all sociopathic PHB's are MBAs. Therefore, all MBAs must exhibit the traits of a PHB. Idiot, is just one of the many traits, and quite frankly, one of the most benign.
It's a logical fallacy, but you have to forgive us. People that have MBAs are largely responsible for all the bullshit in the economy and the continued hell that is IT.
However, the fact you figured out the EtchASketch we gave you was not a real laptop gives you mad props on Slashdot now. You figured out how to post, and as a non-AC even.
You hear that Slashdot! Tripleevanfall is a made man now! Nobody fucks with him anymore!
Bad IT department.
I have seen it from every angle. I am a programmer, sysadmin, tech, grunt, etc. Laid CAT5 in the walls, used punch down tools, programmed apps, database maintenance, created and repaired workstations and servers from scratch, etc.
Currently the CTO for a medium sized business with a bunch of branch offices.
I don't want to guard anything so that I have to do it myself. Prefer that you do it. However, my biggest challenge is balancing security. Developers always seem to want root. That's not happening anytime soon, and for good reasons.
You would not have those kind of problems working with me. If you need something, I will figure out a way to get it done as long it does not compromise security to an unacceptable level.
Overhaul?
You're acting like I am making that shit up. There are dirty panty vending machines right now having money inserted in as we speak.
The Japanese are freaks. Give the Germans a run for their money.
Before anybody gets all butthurt, I say it with the utmost admiration and respect. The Japanese can be pretty damn serious and prurient at times which is paradoxical, but boy, when they decide to get funky and party, they get funky and partaaaay.
I would think the commodity cost would subsidize it quite well, but at what cost to the community?
Can you imagine free wifi in dirty panty vending machines? I'm not sure just what might happen exactly, but it is going to be "interesting".