Slashdot Mirror
World's Worst PR Guy Gives His Side
First time accepted submitter Narnie writes "Follow up to Tuesday's story of a PR rep's lack of professionalism. Kyle Orland provides a follow up interview with Paul Christoforo after a simple email chain escalated into internet infamy. N-Control official response to Paul Chrostoforo's actions can be found here. Kotaku.com even has a whole section devoted to covering the entire ordeal. I for one found myself caught following the news releases and in awe of the combined load forced on penny-arcade's servers from Slashdot, Reddit, Digg, Kotaku, and other news sites covering the story."
"If I had known, I would have treated the situation a little better."
Referring to the email thread that started the whole mess, Christoforo said that he didn't know who he was talking to in his initial, flippant response to Penny Arcade's Mike Krahulik.
"I didn't know who that guy at Penny Arcade was," he admitted. "If I had known, I would have treated the situation a little better. PAX is a great show. What he does is what I've been idolizing since I was a kid. It's admirable he's put that together. He has a lot of connections, ones I want too."
He just doesn't get it. You should treat people, especially your customers, good no matter who they are. He still isn't sorry for what happened, he is "sorry" because someone famous caught him.
And he wasn't caught at bad time either like he says now. There's many similar stories about how he treated customers for a long time.
is quite the understatement.
I never would have stolen that car if I knew I was going to get caught so it's not really my fault.
Don't give him any more publicity. This interview is weird, profanity-laden, and arrogant. The douchebag loves attention and "connections".
"Looking back, Christoforo is still a little shocked that what he thought would remain a private email conversation got blown into an Internet event the way it did." This show a blinding misunderstanding of the Internet. I always act/write/post/upload and assume anything i send to anyone could end up in the faces of the planet. To not do so invites this kind of idiocy. The measure of the man is that he acted the way he did because he thought he was acting 'in secret'. People who act this way are not the kind of people I trust to work with me reliably.
-- John
Every time this guy opens his mouth to try to defend himself, he makes it worse. He needs to just stop. We all get that he thinks his mistake was not knowing who Mike was and that it would have been perfectly ok to treat him like crap if he was nobody.
His apology can be summed up as "Normally I pride myself on knowing who I need to blow and who I can spit on, I made a mistake Mike (points to zipper), may I?"
(analogy seen on reddit)
Basically his stance is, "I'm sorry I was a d!ck to someone important. I thought he was just another nobody I could abuse at will."
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
Please tell us of all the articles you don't want to read anymore by telling us about them on every article you didn't read to comment on their /. stubs. Do you have a website where like-minded people can find out about all the stories you don't care about so we can not care about them either?
Seriously, ftg. His fifteen minutes are up. He deserves nothing more than to be ignored and live in perpetual ignominy until somebody requires a textbook example of how not to treat anybody.
The pain was excruciating and the scarring is likely permanent, but that just means it's working.
[Emphasis added.]
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The whole thing looked way blown out of proportion to me. So this guy was having a rough spot in his life and was a little brusk and unprofessional in the initial email exchange. Conversely, the guy on the other end was WAY overboard on wanting that controller by Christmas (must be a helluva controller). And things just escalated from there to levels where they both sounded like children. Very unprofessional on Christoforo's part, for sure. But hardly worthy of the massive scorn he's gotten.
I think he's really just become a stand-in for all this shitty customer service reps we've all encountered (particularly around Christmas). And he's taking the heat for a lot of shit that he had nothing to do with.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
This is the mother of all non-apology apologies. He's not sorry for the way he behaved--he's sorry he got caught.
"If I had known, I would have treated the situation a little better." Really? Please. It doesn't matter WHO was on the other end of that email, you don't act that way. This clown deserves everything he's gotten over the last few days.
Its great, because this guy is getting MASSIVELY screwed right now. I would feel bad for the guy, except that he's a gigantic asshole, and isn't even sincerely apologetic.
Even then though, I start to feel like maybe this all just got out of hand...
Then you read the part where Ocean Marketing's website was DIRECTLY PLAGIARIZED from websites like forbes.com.
Thats it, no more excuses. This man is A CON ARTIST. He has been running a SCAM. He has this coming 100%
Oh, the lulz.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
This guy still diesn't get it. He blames everyone else, they were "being a bully" or acting like a "punk or jerk".
Then there's this gem: "Ultimately, if I was able to control the customer, it never would have happened. I've dealt with thousands and thousands of customers with similar complaints, they were all asking the same question." Control the customer? When has anyone been able to "control the customer"? Where the hell did he learn to provide customer service? Even in Fast Food they're trained better than that...
How fucking clueless can someone be? It boggles the mind that this guy actually worked as a professional in any industry, let alone one that focuses on these sort of interactions.
What an idiot...
Not to be clinical here but a thousand times as many people now know about the Avenger then before.
If the product dose what it is design to, most of its target market (including Dave) won't be put off by a 1 month delay or a poor choice of PR firm. The whole fiasco is almost certainly a net positive for the product's sales.
Someone needs to tell this guy about the First Law of Holes: "When you find yourself in one, stop digging!!"
A lot of PR people are assholes. I think, in many cases, it helps. If this guy was smart, he could turn this into a ton of money. But, based on this follow up interview, it doesn't seem like he is positioning himself to do that. I almost think he needs to hire a PR person that is an even bigger asshole, but who is also smarter, to turn this enormous flash of notoriety into something more lasting.
We may want to insult him for the way he treated a customer, as we're all customers are one point or another so it hits a nerve. But let's face it, a lot of people who are disgusted with him aren't any better.
Everyone started to flame him, spam his email accounts, call him and threaten him and his wife? I mean they even brought his two year old son into this.
It's a shame day not only for him and the way he treated a customer, but for the rest of us on the internet as well for the way we responded to him.
This really has been blown way out, people should leave him alone and maybe not use him as a business as punishment, but not threatening phone calls etc.
please, let us continue to enjoy his cretinous existence and villify it further, so that he may enjoy the karma which he still cannot acknowledge.
I'm pretty sure that unless this guy hits rock bottom (which he won't), that he will never learn from this experience. The wholehearted lack of apology and the "I haven't lost clients" part basically shows that he hasn't learn shit from this.
Just looked up recalcitrant in the dictionary, there was a little picture of this grinning douchebag in shades and a bandana.
Anybody want a peanut?
They connected him to a user id, TheAngryPimp, on a steroid board. http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/12/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christoforo-a-breakhe-might-just-have-roid-rage/
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
The way he responded wouldn't even be appropriate if the customer were directly, personally insulting him to start off with. As a PR guy, you have to hold your tongue, whether the person you're talking to is internet famous or not.
So he is out poorly trying to straighten things out when the real tragedy is that the innocent product maker is getting burned. People were harassing the product maker over this guy's moronic behavior. Let that dumbass change his name if he wants to get back in the biz.
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
That's a helluva good point. Maybe this guy is really the most talented "marketter" ever. The product really does look useful, and I never would have heard of it if it weren't for the boing-boing story.
But it sure seems like a one-trick pony. I wouldn't hire this ass-clown to handle customer service complaints at a collection agency. His best bet now is to find a job as a sewer unblocker or ditch digger.
John
"I'm sorry for being a hostile, juvenile ...." is expected, but is impossible to figure out if it's true or not.
Did he ever actually say that (paraphrased I realize!)? If so I certainly missed it. In fact the whole thing did not read like any sort of apology at all.
Good for Avenger, but Ocean Marketing is still getting drug through the dirt badly. Avenger did the right thing to distance themselves from that guy.
Not to be clinical here but a thousand times as many people now know about the Avenger then before.
If the product dose what it is design to, most of its target market (including Dave) won't be put off by a 1 month delay or a poor choice of PR firm. The whole fiasco is almost certainly a net positive for the product's sales.
And yet, even given all that, N-Control has absolutely nothing to lose by dumping Ocean Marketing, and plenty to lose by keeping them. This Streisand Effect is a one-off for Ocean.
If Ocean is smart, they'll fold up shop, liquidate, and open as some other business somewhere else, with Paul under an alias.
What people fail to realize here is that this is fairly normal. This is the way marketing people think about the customers of their clients. It's really a job requirement.
If this hadn't gone viral, who knows where this guy would have gone. Can you imagine this guy in public office? Or leading a real company, or worse yet,being YOUR boss? I wonder if his linked in profile has been updated to indicate he is the biggest DB on the web?
The product may do better because of it, but Paul's personal reputation is ruined and his ties with the company that sells the Avenger have been cut.
I don't think this is much of a positive for Avenger and definitely not for Christofo.
Like the Streisand effect, we need a Christoforo effect.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
The maker of the product shouldn't be penalized for what a jackwagon this guy was. They fired him for it. They deserve to be separated from the drama. His other clients that haven't fired him for being abusive, however...
You've not been in customer service, have you? "Call control" is a frequent feedback point when calls start to run long, and I assume that's what he was talking about here.
Keep the customer focused on the issue, don't let them blabber and complain, instead get the problem fixed and the customer back to their day. Some people don't really want the problem solved, they want people to hear about it and point out all of the problems, an "I told you so" kind of rant, or "when I worked for a company like yours this would never have happened" or "I used to respect your brand, now you've let it go into the crapper". They think they are talking to someone who has the power to change something. And you can't let those people tie you up.
Yes it sounds bad phrased like that, but anyone who does any kind of support or customer contact should have been coached on controlling the customer. He realizes that he could have phrased things differently and not pissed this guy off, that's "controlling the customer". What he doesn't realize is that his natural personality is quite dick-ish and won't allow him to do that. Especially when you have piles of people asking the same thing, and are afraid to give some bad news that stuff won't be under the Christmas tree as promised, and you're too arrogant to apologise.
a net positive for the product's sales.
... that the PR firm can't charge for.
Wait, are you saying that there's space in the market for one shot "kamikaze" PR firms who deliberately fail and torpedo their own reputations - and thus their long term prospects - in return for a sudden viral explosion in visibility of one lucky product?
So now, when we get shitty customer service, we have to question whether we're being trolled into having our favourite blogger publicise the product. Long term, this introduces one new good product in exchange for removing one PR asshat from the market... I'm okay with that trade, actually. Bring on the one shot PR firms.
Seems to be as though the main parties here have all been a**holes, not just Christopheros.
He still comes across as a jerk, contrite only to try to get people to stop harassing him. Seems like he can't shut up because his ego just won't let go.
This concise explanation / apology (and say nothing else) would have gone a long way, and it might even be somewhat true:
Add another line or two about how he hopes his behavior won't kill such a great gamer product, and done.
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
Does anyone else find it ironic that he's been receiving DEATH THREATS aimed at him, his wife, and their 2 month old son, because of this? And he's the bad guy. What is wrong with this planet..
i thought it was yet another submission about godaddy (bob parsons)
I read the various sources on this, and it doesn't really describe the Avenger except in vague terms -- it's a video game controller that for some reason would be good for differently-abled people? I suspect most people are like me in that they looked at this story solely for teh funnies, didn't bother to take this as an opportunity to research the associated product, and now if they are reminded of it (I'd already forgotten the name) will remember it as that thing associated with that asshat. They may possibly have gained some customers, but they're likely so few that they'll be balanced by lost customers.
This is true. The only way to prevent this in the future is to boycott the Avenger. Otherwise you are rewarding the A-hole.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
The guy comes across as so incompetently stupid and utterly incoherent that it really has to be a setup.
He's thrusted the product right onto the front page of several major websites, twice now, he's probably being paid double for it, even if you'll never know the itty bitty details.
This makes him more valuable as a marketing asset, because he can pull the same stunt with another company, and instantly get a 'does it again!!' headline.
He's doing his job, and you've all been played.
I like how N-Control is trying to distance themselves from this alleged steroid using, wife beating, loser. If you read everything, Paul is not some random 3rd party consultant. He is David Kotkin's friend and he collaborated on product design (Now deleted, atrocious, Youtube video). So, this is apparently, very much, an N-Control issue. I did like how, "I know the mayor of Boston" turned into "I know the doorman at the convention center and some people who work at bars". And really, calling yourself "CEO" of a one person "company" is douchey (as if we needed additional proof).
He'll hit rock-bottom when a fungal infection kills him because of his suppressed immune system. This sociopath juicer got caught in a fit of 'roid rage and his lifestyle choice will eventually cost him far more than his reputation.
Is this his LinkedIn presence? I wonder if people will rush to disassociate from him now...
"Sum Ergo Cogito"
"They've pretty much ruined me in the past 24 hours," Christoforo said.
No, he did it all by himself. All they did was give him the publicity he so badly wanted. . .
Make sure you stir up a lot of controversy about us the more the better we needed some drama gets good blood flow going about the new product launch.
It wouldn't be that hard to pretend you know acted badly and wouldn't do it again. Instead he pulls out:
And of course assigns the fault to the Penny Arcade guy for being rude to him.
If you aren't going to pretend then at least stop digging.
I love how he says that he shouldn't have to take sh*t from anyone. You've chosen a career in customer service and marketing, that's pretty much your entire career. What an idiot this guy is.
after reading his interview, this PR guy is still not sorry of himself. /goon mind from his way of talk.
he is still at large and his attitude shows.
it will be better if someone keeps a long track of him.
looks like a criminal
Please tell us of all the articles you don't want to read anymore by telling us about them on every article you didn't read to comment on their /. stubs. Do you have a website where like-minded people can find out about all the stories you don't care about so we can not care about them either?
Maybe a newsletter?
Yet despite all the drama, Christoforo said he hasn't lost any of his other accounts, aside from Avenger. "It hasn't affected my business yet," he said. "Clients have brought it up, but they've mainly laughed about it. I haven't lost any clients."
That's because most of the people who have the authority to sever ties with you are on vacation. Next week's gonna be a pile of suck.
I can assure you, most slashdotters wouldn't last a week. Hell, not even a day, when working for customer service. They would get violent, or just break down to tears. You need a really thick skin, and if you're whining about who's right and who's wrong in a site like slashdot, it just means you don't have what it takes.
I find your conclusion convincing due to the abundance of supporting evidence you provided. Certainly, the fact that a person is "whining about who's right and who's wrong" is a solid indicator that they do not, in fact, "have what it takes" to work for customer service.
I would like to subscribe to your newletter.
I find it difficult to have any sympathy for this guy, reading his various outbursts it seems that in this situation the troll has become the trolled.
PC might be better suited to a career in waste disposal or highway paving. We wish him luck.
And the company ended up having to give everyone on pre-order a $10 discount. How does the joke go? "I know this widget costs $10 to make and we sell it for $5, but we'll make it up in volume!"
This is a huge fiasco for the company that is going to cost them dearly. Yes, brand recognition might be up, but if it costs them more to clean up that recognition"than they make from sales (and I bet you that their margins aren't that awesome to begin with), this is a net loss.
So the current "marketting" so far has cost the company $10 on every controller ordered so far, a one-star review on Amazon, required the revamp of their marketing department, their CS methods and another PR campaign to put out the message "Sorry about that". These are real costs that I'm pretty sure aren't covered by the exposure. Not to mention that now everyone also knows about the shitty delivery time frames.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
If you want to make one fail, do what this guy did. I don't know how you make it to your late 30s without learning that lesson. It actually doesn't seem to me like he's learned it now. He seems like the kind of person who will blame anyone else for his failure when his last customer deserts him and his business lies in ruins.
The best move, from his company's perspective, would be to fire him and go "under new management." I don't know if anyone's ever been fired from running the company they own, but that might just do the trick. They could get an Australian guy in, since "Yeah, we got rid of that last guy, he was a cunt," sounds so much better with that accent. I think they'd be back on top in no time!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Pity the narcissist and especcialy those near to him.
No. The Amazon ratings for the Avenger went from 5 stars to 2 stars overnight.
People aren't mad at the product maker or the product, they are mad at the asshat that is the only contact to go to about info regarding their orders (and there was never any info given), which have now been pushed back so far they are in violation of FTC rules. Seriously, if people pay you in full in advance for something (not really the standard with pre-orders, mind you), you damn well better be able to keep them informed on the status of those orders without being a condescending abusive dickhead.
... you have to work behind the grill because you're not allowed to speak to customers.
The best move, from his company's perspective, would be to fire him and go "under new management."
Did you read the response from N-Control? They are trying to put as much distance between that guy and the company as they can.
I wonder if this Paul Cristoforo has pioneered a new PR strategy for startups though. . . hire him, or someone like him, to stir up a big pot of controversy, publicly fire him saying you had NO IDEA he was going to abuse his position, and release press releases talking about how great your products are for disabled people/kids/other sympathetic group, etc. Get the public to view your company as another victim of his abuse and try to get them to feel bad for you and good about your products, while transferring their rage to the "rogue employee/consultant".
Sort of Good Cop/Bad Cop for startups.
Yes they should. Paul was a friend of David Kotkin's. You are always judged by the company you keep. Business 101.
just read the beginning of the email exchange. he's right, when he says the customer started it. maybe it's unprofessional to lose one's temper with a customer who clearly wants to annoy and insult. and saying afterwards, that you would have reacted otherwise if you had known who you were talking to also makes you pretty much a dick. so, i would feel sorry for him for loosing his job after loosing his temper. but he probably deserved it anyway for being an asshole.
For their customer service
This power is only going to grow.
The internet stopped the AT&T buyout of T-Mobile. Nearly every other public presentation of the story was favorable to AT&T and their empty promises. The internet and its users were unrelenting and got the information out there. It took a LOT of work by people with a sense of urgency.
The internet *IS* the 99%. The 1% still thinks the internet is a digital sales leaflet.
Efforts out there are working. They will only get stronger and more effective as more and more people of the 99% and the 1% are taking more notice. The 1% is actively trying to limit and control the internet at every turn. While the 99% still have control over the internet and while they are not yet listed as "terrorists" action and enthusiasm need to increase. Don't let them take our internet. Don't even let them try.
I know I have been vocal in sending out contacts to various politicians letting them know "we are watching" and that even though the establishment has the old media locked down and in their pockets, the "new media" is still a wild west which no one controls 100% and the information can, will and does get out there. We are watching. And we are TRACKING. The internet's memory is a LOT longer than that of the average individual consumer. They can't lie and get away with it any longer.
I thank all of those who have made similar efforts out there. THEY WORKED. And to those who have been sitting on the side lines to see what would happen or who would win? You have your answer. It's time for you to join in and solidify your support for your own interests. I'm not saying you should stand up for what you believe in. I'm saying SIT DOWN and DON'T BE MOVED. This is your life. Your internet. Your ability to exist in the world. KEEP IT.
One guy, apparently from the East coast and quite possibly involved in steroids. We had to deal with hundreds of these guys intruding on our college scene from thousands of miles away and drooling over our fair women.
Open your eyes, boycotting the Avenger achieves exactly nothing. N-Control made the mistake of using Ocean Marketing, they are no longer using OM, so nothing you can do can possibly reward OM. You are quite mean-spirited if you think N-Control deserve further punishment for that initial mistake.
What i want to really know is...
Will the law get involved?
His website is a hacked together copy from a bunch of other copyrighted sources.
He threatened to sell customers CC#'s to the identity thieves.
He STILL hasnt made good on all the orders he took. That he recieved the money for months ago.
Dude is a douchebag and 100% in the wrong. And still does not get it.
He's not sorry he did it. Nowhere in the interview does that ever come across.
He's sorry he pissed off the wrong person while trying to act like a big shot.
But he's not sorry he actually started this whole mess by being an asshole to a CUSTOMER.
He's a fratboy douche bully who got caught. He can go fuck himself.
If you ever wondered how abusive loudmouth assholes end up in life, he's your example. The guy can't spell, lost his job, and is a fucking moron with no real skills.
Everything that's happening to him is well deserved.
The whole fiasco is almost certainly a net positive for the product's sales.
Except, of course, the fire bombing of it's ratings on Amazon. I doubt something like 300 1-star reviews will do it much good.
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
I'm REALLY liking the mindset of the new PR guy for N-Control.
I'm just glad I didn't have a soda to my mouth.
Nice, blunt honesty in the situation with a schadenfreude-funny quote goes a long way. Kudos Moisés!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Well, if its really is a brilliant marketing scheme, I imagine other companies will recognize it (or at least recognize the corresponding increase in sales) and he probably will get hired again.
All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
He asked for it literally
"Your spamming me you’re not on a mailing list you idiot ! You sent me an email remember . Make sure you stir up a lot of controversy about us the more the better we needed some drama gets good blood flow going about the new product launch . Your sites amateur at best my son could put together a better site than yours and you run PAX ?? Wow , Ill put my marketing team on a smear campaign of you and your site and your emails , I have about 125 dedicated people to run PR , Blogs , Articles , Videos you have no clue who I am . Thanks again
I can’t wait for the Penny Arcade smear campaign! "
He "couldn't wait" and he wanted some "drama" well he got it and now he is trying to placate the Internet mob that's arse raping him while simultaneously keeping his ego intact.
He deserves everything he gets.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The guy's clearly got some real psychological problems. He's plagiarizing and using stolen identities. Notice in the MSNBC interview he's still constantly using obscenities, "f***" and "s***" all over the place. And this theme:
"He has a lot of connections, ones I want too.... I know a lot of people who own clubs. I know some influential people, like the guy who runs the door at the convention center... When is it big enough that it hits the news? When it hits Penny Arcade, when it hits a guy who has the biggest affiliations in the industry."
I've never heard of such an uncontrollable obsession with "connections" (whether real or fake; and this runs through all the original emails, too). As a total amateur, I'd guess something like borderline personality or sociopathy or whatever.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
He cannot empathize with other people, as such his feelings are the only ones that matter. So he sees himself as the victim here, because he is the only one who got hurt in his worldview.
It is how people like that act. They hurt others freely because to them it doesn't matter, other people don't have feelings like they do. However when they are hurt they go off the rails with the victim thing because it is so unfair.
They don't behave themselves, obey laws, do right by others, or any of that because of any sort of moral or human understanding. They do it because they don't want to get in trouble. If they think they can get away with it, they will.
Paul was a friend of David Kotkin's.
Do you have a citation for that? As I understood it, together they had set up an LLC in Fl. that never came to fruition, but that is the only connection between the two.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Funny, I try to make calls go long when I don't think the rep is being as helpful as they should be. I'll start talking slower, asking open-ended questions, and basically dragging it out and re-asking the question I called about. That's fine, 20 minutes on the phone looks much worse on their back than mine.
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
Just FYI, this guy does steriods. I'd imagine this accounts for 80% of his actions (the other 20% attributed to him being a dumb fuck).
I had no idea this product existed before this. It'll probably make my X-Mas list for my XBox fanatic friend next year.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Did the customer get his controller or not?
why is this now about how he treated the penny arcade guy?
There is no such thing as a private email conversation.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
I would agree with you, except that based on his previous douchebaggery, I can't believe he meant it as you explain. Normal people, yes, this is a good thing to manage the calls coming in. King douche of the universe over there? No benefit of the doubt from me.
Did the customer get his controller or not? why is this about how he treated the penny arcade guy? Outting this guy is all well and good, but i'm sure the customer is still sitting around waiting for his controller.
I would say boycott the avenger if they kept this guy, but since they dumped him it is ok. However any company that keeps this asshat needs to be boycotted.
Now he's got a chance to prove how good at marketing he is, by turning this big frown upside down! If he can save his image, people will be knocking his door down to help their own marketing! Surely this minor setback is no big deal to The Paul Christoforo, friend of the Mayor of Boston, Heir to the Holy WWebsite of Betazed!
And the company reacted promptly by firing the PR fail and apologizing to the community. Deftly handled.
I said he is a dick. I also said that customer service type people are taught this type of term, and it doesn't mean what people read into it. Most likely he didn't mean it as I explained, his own dickish nature allowed him to interpret it however he wanted.
But there is a big difference between him coming up with the idea of controlling a customer on his own, versus it being a valid phrase that his dickheadedness misinterprets.
Doesn't make him any less of a dick. I'm not making excuses for his dickish behavior, I just think people should understand where it most likely came from so they can make sense of his dickishness. In fact, looking at it this way, he knew that he was supposed to control the customer, but could not make himself, making his dickery appear much more ingrained and permanent than a "bad day at work." And much more impossible to apologise for.
On behalf of Bostonians here and abroad, I can assure you we are not all Massholes.
Many people who are incurable idiots apply for (and eventually receive) MBAs. They pick the MBA because they can't get anything else...it is one of the few job-market-valued degrees that an idiot can get.
Of course, some non-idiots want (and get) MBAs for other reasons. But they are outnumbered by the idiots who also get them, thus creating the stereotype.
Do we expect anything less of him but to be a flaming douchebag?
Yes but, even the original customer still wanted the device. Even he said he would hate to really hurt the device sales since they are great for people with disabilities and could really bring a fuckton of joy to kids who otherwise couldn't play video games. Hes right, it would have been quite sad if this product left the market entirely due to this.
That said, I think this is epic win. Epic win because, while it will help device sales, it is already hurting the massive douche who is the actual problem. His marketing company is out the door now. I would be shocked if this doesn't hurt his personal options career wise. Everyone is going to know what a massive douche he is. Not only that but, I have to imagine he royally pissed off everyone whose name he dropped...whether he knew them or not.
So douchebag is now known about, and anyone with the wherewithal to google him is going to know all about it. The product is even more well known, and the company is distancing itself from him big time. Thats Charlie Sheen in his own mind levels of winning.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
"Does anyone else find it ironic that he's been receiving DEATH THREATS aimed at him, his wife, and their 2 month old son, because of this? And he's the bad guy. What is wrong with this planet.." - by Muse011 (1826134) on Thursday December 29, @11:52AM (#38527420)
Per my subject-line above: I agree with you, & the cause? I haven't read the article, but, it's AMAZING HOW STUPID PEOPLE CAN BE, because they fall for "who says what the most & how loud", w/out checking things out themselves to be sure!
Ala a-holes like HBGary &/or the Chinese "water army" firms doing 1000's of FAKE accounts to "support themselves" with, right OR wrong:
---
HBGary POST in Fake Names On Social Networks, a Fake Problem:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2375110&cid=37056304
&/or
Chinese Water Army:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Chinese+Water+Army%22&go=&qs=ns&form=QBLH
---
* I'm SURE you guys have seen the same OR, things like it before, because I certainly KNOW I have... & had it used against me, or attempts to do so!
(E.G.-> Things like users on forums with 100 accounts they use attempting to fool others they're "different people", when in reality, they're all the SAME GUY, or a GROUP acting thus!)
APK
P.S.=> Yes people - Sorry, but... It happens around here too, & I've caught those admitting to multiple "registered 'luser'" account names, as well as those who CHEAT THE MODERATION SYSTEM here on /. itself!
By doing the following to do so:
---
1.) First, modding an opponent/enemy down (even IF/WHEN they're correct-right)
2.) Logout to preserve their cookie state of their "registered 'luser'" account
3.) Then TROLL the opponent AS AC trolling replies!
4.) Also, acting in groups to "mod one another up" (Even if incorrect or stupid)
---
* In fact - just ask TomHudson & the "trolltalk.com" crew around here about it! (they do it ALL the time & I actually HOPE one of them confronts me here on it - because I have one HELL of a set of links & quotes from them directly to substantiate my claims above just "waiting in the wings" to NUKE them with... nothing like blowing away a "naysayer opponent", with his OWN words/actions...)
... apk
Not all psycopaths are necessarily clever manipulators, though they'll always try to manipulate people by trying to appear 'charming', 'pathetic' (to elicit the sympathy response), whatever works.
They cover the whole range in terms of actual ability to do so, though they can get better at it as they learn from experience.
This character seems more like an extreme narcissist. (Who is also not very intelligent.)
It's not just that he was a dick to the customer, or to Penny Arcade. How about the fact that he was defending taking a customer's money and skirting around the backorder problem? He impacted people's Christmas's with his poor response. Where's the apology for that?
The customer wasn't asking for anything unreasonable here, just an honest answer.
They hired the jerk. They kept him on when their other PR people complained about his methods. They kept him on when the other PR firm pulled out because of him. They should be held accountable. I have no compassion for assholes or asshole enablers.
This is the final test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him.
~William Lyon Phelps
There are exceptions to every rule, but unfortunately, most people who have an MBA are interested only in making money. They "achieve" this goal through lies called marketing, through bullshit accounting tricks and technically legal loopholing called money management, through exploitation of the earth and it's people called maximizing revenue. If you'd read your literature, you'd know that pursuit of money has never been a noble goal, and it never will be. It's the desire of degenerate subhumans whose greatest gift to the world will be as compost.
As one artist put it, you're a poor man's Donald Trump, and you think that's worthy of praise? I'll trade one million MBAs for one Jonas Salk any day of the week. You may have fooled yourself into thinking that greed and gluttony need a graduate program, but no one else is that delusional.
to be a douche to this guy? Personal threats? Stalking? etc.?
Shouldn't "the mob" just respectfully disagree with his actions and leave it at that?
Pot, meet Kettle.
"... forcing the company to publicly drop Christoforo as its marketing representative."
and from the guy
"I haven't lost any clients."
This is taking into account that almost all service reps have very little power to do anything, right?
This guy is like the Asa Dotzler of N-Control
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... you can't help but watch with gleeful fascination.
Especially when the douchbag doing digging himself the mother of all holes is so representative of companies we've all had to deal with, unfulfilled promises, things that don't work, warranties that aren't honored.
Check your premises.
I encourage people to follow the link in the summary and read the n-control press release. It is absolutely brilliant. I don't think I've ever read an apology so sincere, or a PR termination notice so complete and profound.
My favorite part: “I can’t worry about the fact that there isn’t a bus big enough for me to throw Paul Christoforo under. The internet did that for me. I think they set him on fire too.”
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
"If the product dose what it is design to, most of its target market (including Dave) won't be put off by a 1 month delay or a poor choice of PR firm. The whole fiasco is almost certainly a net positive for the product's sales." If they ever get the product. Its been plagued by non delivery before Paul was ever at the that company according to the previous rep that Paul name dropped.
While there are downsides to the 'internet mob mentality' when it comes to senselessly threatening someone's wife and kid (if that actually happened), the benefits of invoking the 'power of the internet' are more often a powerful force for good.
Consumerist.com makes a living out of giving internet-sized visibility to bad customer experiences. The result? The offending company usually learns a lesson and the customer often gets respectful treatment and accommodations. The customer just harnessed that same power and contacts to get increased visibility. Sure, he probably could have been less aggressive. But from the Kyle Orland interview, it doesn't seem like Paul Christoforo learned anything at all.
Hell hath no fury like a customer scorned (at least on the internet).
Violate this rule at your own peril, Mr. Christoforo.
It sounds like Dave is the real marketer that saved the day here. He sang praises of the controller throughout all the abuse and was very emphatic to Gabe that people need to disassociate Avenger from Ocean. At the end of it all the Avenger came out looking good despite Paul's efforts rather than because of them (well, he did absolutely nothing to protect the brand image and seems to be trying to milk this to make himself famous).
This controller is awful. I originally bought it hoping to improve my noob slaying skills. Merely looking at it however caused me to become blind in my left eye. The special tension wires and switches severed my thumbs and index fingers on both hands. Also unknown to me at the time, the Avenger controller is made of asbestos and coal dust and now I have the black lung and Mesothelioma. When I called customer support I was told to stop being a b***h and that they were websiting since I was a sperm inside my father. All that is left for me to do is weep inside my iron lung. Do not buy this controller. (permalink)
Seriously, I missed the drama earlier this week and finally went to look at this thing. It's ugly as sin, and I can't see how those goofy-looking levers could do anything but break with a few hours use.
I have two cheap $15 Logitech USB game pads that I regularly use that are constantly breaking and needing to be repaired, including wires breaking due to the lack of strain reliefs. (compared to standard Sony PS2 game pads that last months before I need to repair them... yeah, I need to just get a PS2-USB adapter already) This looks much more fragile than those.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Of course, knowing about these techniques allows a customer who's been wronged, if he has control of his own emotions, patience and a certain level of intelligence, to win sometimes.
Check your premises.
>
Yes it sounds bad phrased like that[...]
Isn't his entire job, as a PR rep, to sound good?
I never would have spit in that guy's face if I had known who he was.
You should never spit in anybody's face, period. This guy is a MAJOR asshole and only treats people he wants something from with any sort of decency. His philosphy in life is along the lines of: If you aren't obviously wealthier and/or more powerful than me you are beneath me.
Whereas my general philosophy in life is "there's no greater sinner than me" or "nobody is beneath me" for the secular.
I doubt it based on the Amazon reviews that are crucifying it.
He completely flew off the handle when the customer complained about being treated badly (Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation), doesn't seem to care about or even really understand why the customer is pissed off (Obsessed with oneself and Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others)
.
The entire thing describes him almost to the letter.
i am not nerd enough to care.
I dont mind if customer service uses polite forms to disguise their unacceptable behaviour or not. I prefer having somebody giving me a definitive impolite answer (which i can happily forward to his Boss and cancel the order) instead of indefinitely being forwarded or - after waiting for a few minutes on hold - being thrown out of the line.
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Now yes there are countless assholes with companies dealing with customers, but this guys ongoing dickitry goes above the call of duty. Personally it sounds like a publicity stunt. Before this happened hardly anyone knew what the avenger was, but now? Its been mentioned hundreds of times in this story on every gaming website on the net just about, now everyone knows the avenger name and what it is.
The chances of a guy being this big of a dick multiple times on purpose is slim given his job is on the line, the chances this "story" coming out about the same time as the avenger product launches is even slimmer and the fact a single guy who is only one of two people that run penny arcade being shown this guys antics is even slimmer. Just a lot of longshots all managed to happen in a very narrow window as soon as this new product is released.
Bottom line is this company got a shitload of publicity right when they needed it. Even the companies apologies for what this guy did are filled with references to their product, what systems its on and so fourth.
As the old saying goes, even bad publicity is good publicity.
The fact that you think this kind of behavior is unremarkable and should be let to slide is a symptom of just how far society in general has fallen under the sway of the psychopath and its version of reality.
This exchange is a fascinating one, documenting how psychopaths think and act. We can all learn from it.
Read Hervey Cleckley's Mask of Sanity (free download) to get some insight. He was one of the original scientists who pioneered research into a field which is arguably at the core of every major problem humanity is currently dealing with.
who is "we"?
you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.
At least they wrote something amusing; you're spouting the same old shite you always do.
You know, it was nice when you went away for a little while there.
Oh, I nearly forgot: feeb.
This is what you get when you have three internet tough guys all with the same false sense of entitlement and importance. Nothing to see here, and it happens every day. The media picked it up for page views. I think the customer wasted his time with his book of a response that came before the PR guy threw a fit. Then the customer doesn't even cancel his order. Okay. That's some resolve he has there. Then this Penny Arcade guy goes off on a power trip and even smirks with an emoticon as he tells the PR guy that's he's going to invoke his influence to give him a hard time.
Did you read the same email chain as me? I'm pretty sure the PR representative started it by calling the customer a kid when the customer asked for legitimate clarification on shipping dates for something he paid for.
As for the "Penny Arcade guy", I don't see how he has any false sense of entitlement or importance? He runs a well known website and expo in the gaming industry. I guess he's pretty unimportant if you look at him outside of that particular industry. I guess he's not entitled to decide who gets a spot at HIS show, nor is he entitled to post an PR firm's email exchange on a site HE owns?
I'll tell you what. Give me your money and a list of things you want to buy with this money. I'll send those items right over to you as soon as I acquire them. I'm not sure when I'll do it, but I'll do it eventually. Don't ask me for a specific date and don't bother me with emails or phone calls if your stuff doesn't come though. If you do that, that will make you a brat and a idiot and I'll just pawn your stuff off that you gave me money for on ebay. Don't worry, I'll give you a refund at some point... Not sure when though. ~Paul
Because reps are rated based on how efficiently (i.e. quickly) they are able to resolve customers' complaints. Hanging up when your complaint hasn't been resolved makes them appear better than they are; keeping them on the line longer makes them appear worse.
The guy is from my hometown! Carlsbad woot woot!
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What if this guy's plan was to cheese off every single person who contacted them, in hopes that one of them would "out" him in the public's eye? Maybe he planned to be this company's scapegoat from day 0. Sure, he ticked off plenty of not-Daves on the way, but once he ticked off Dave, and Dave got so fed up he told Mike, then Mike told Gabe, and then they got noticed big-time.
At some point your behavior is so over the top that it's bound to be noticed by someone of importance who will take great pleasure in publicly spanking you for it. As long as you're "just some marketting firm" that can be reasonably separated from the company making the product, and know you'll be cut loose as soon as you look bad, the company selling the product is going to look almost like a victim of a scammer as opposed to a scheming manipulator. They get noticed, and they even get pity for having been tricked into hiring such a lousy PR guy.
I don't care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right. - P.T. Barnum, among others.
John
Just look at how much publicity Avenger got from this. It's insane. I would bet their orders increased tenfold since the story broke out. Makes me wonder if Ocean Marketing actually did this on purpose(well, probably not... maybe its another marketing company, using Ocean Marketing as a decoy). all it took was just two guys supposedly exchanging emails... internet did the rest. It was a gamble, sure... but if the story didnt pick up, it'd just fade into obscurity and sales wouldnt drop. It was a lossless strategy using a classic marketing ploy. Reminds me of Mad Men.
Not necessarily - the customers who ask to complain to a manager tend to be the type who weren't going to be satisfied no matter what the rep did (maybe the rep didn't even have the authority to do what the customer wanted), so it doesn't really reflect badly on the rep. In fact, they did their job well: they handled the customer's call quickly, and accomplished all that they were expected to accomplish (i.e. resolved nothing with an incorrigible customer).
That said, I've been told before, flat out, (from a Kodak rep - yeah, I'll name names) that no, I couldn't speak to her manager because "a manger doesn't want to talk to you".
That could work. But Mike is Gabe. And Tycho's name is Jerry.
He's still only sorry that he got caught, and probably doesn't understand why such a big deal is being made over this. After all, in his eyes, his sin is that he mistakenly bullied someone with a lot of connections.
Except that he works as PR for the company that makes the Avenger, and he just got canned HARD. They did the right thing and apologized, and now THEY're going to get lots of free publicity, which is cool, they actually deserve it. Meanwhile anybody who googles this guy's name is going to see a MESS and he shouldn't be able to work anywhere near PR in the next century.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
He keeps on going! Doesn't believe he did anything wrong. STILL beating his chest, STILL bragging
about who he knows. Sad.
http://twitter.com/OceanStratagy
This guy just does not know when to shut up. I simple apology, bad day, we treat all customers with respect BS would have at least calmed the situation but the more he talks the deeper he digs the hole. He would have treated the customer differently if he thought he was important? He's 38 claims he knows the internet and is shocked his rant went viral.
I've done may day in the customer service barrel and even when you get the call that says "hey, the cupholder on my computer isn't working" you still don't insult and berate the caller.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong [Ecclesiastes 9:11]
But that _is_ almost alwyas the best way to bet...
MBA's nororiously engage in "business think", which leads to real world absurdity. For instance, if I manage to save money this year, next year I will be given less money. This punishes the dilligent and rewards the spendthrift. Yet is it done again and again because of "business think" and a misunderstanding of planning and outcome. As a consequence every year intersticial fragments of businesses go on spending orgies to "protect" their budget for the next year.
In effect "business management" is the opposite of smart and ignores causation in the face of correlation and truthiness.
Learning certian things tends to mis-configure the human brain. Most technical, scientific, and I.T. people have learned the hard way that MBA(s) will, as a rule, be short sighted and wrong in any conclusion they reach.
It's like talking to a poor white share-cropper who insists in voting rebublican because democrats are "on the darky's side" and what is good for them (poor black people) clearly must be bad for us (poor white people).
We see the pattern. We know that to all you MBA(s) what you have learned seems to make sense. To us, however, you are a symptom of decay.
Individual cases may vary, even into reasonably large percentages, because nobody perfectly matches their stereotype(*), but it is the way to bet.
(*) Before you say "(but) stereotypes are bad", you should consider that every non-proper noun in english (e.g. not the name of a specific and singular person) is a stereotype. Stereotypes are not bad excep when they are used to unreasonably limit or are based on elements not in evidence. Teacher, cop, priest, mailman, DR., PhD, MBA, I.T. guy, politician, and on into the infinite. Every single noun is a set theory operation and is assigned dominant charactersitics in your brain. It's litterly how the wiring works. If you don't like one or more of your stereotypes, then get together with the other memebers of your noun and change it by changing your actions(**).
(**) yes, there are some unfair stereotypes, particularly those involving race or religion. "black guy" is a stereotype, but it is only a unfair stereotype in the minds of people who are already biased against "black guy"s in the first place due to upbringing and so forth. It's not the words, its the wiring of the guy saying them. etc.
So the thing is, in the minds of most of I.T. (and probably "blue collar" and "scientist" and "technoloist" as well) the MBA has, as a class, rightfully earned our scorn for countless unilateral acts of "business think".
Don't like it, don't blame us... Fixt Your Shit...
Because having read the initial email and the PR guys follow-ups, both authors came off looking pretty stupid.
We all make mistakes. Anyone who doesn't make mistakes doesn't make anything (or so it is said!)
Do you really want to make his life sh1t (and that of his family and 8 week old son) because he didn't hold of sending an email whilst he cooled down. Put another way, hopefully he can learn and move on. Otherwise, he will burden you all and increase the jobless total.
Could he have handled it better. Definitely
Should he have considered the other person before he sent it ? Totally.
Should he loose his income because of a couple of shitty emails? Probably not.
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
It may get me modded way down, but I have compassion for Christoforo.
Yes he was a massive douche, and it looks like he has been getting away with being douchy for a long time.
Whenever I hear of somebody doing something really evil, or stupid or ortherwise 'bad'—I try and remind myself of all the stupid things I've done and mostly gotten away with, and that if not given just the right life circumstances (that I did nothing to earn either) I could be that guy.
The thing that makes me feel compassion for him is his apparent lack of awareness that there even is a problem. It's obvious he's more upset that he got caught abusing someone 'important' than actually contrite about how he treated the customer and probably 100s of others.
Lack of awareness is the number one cause of psychological suffering. Without at least some insight into one's psychological problems it is impossible to even begin working on them.
If he is indeed habitually treating people this way, and is indeed this clueless about the suffering he is causing others and himself, he likely will be stuck in a sad narrow little life. He will not just be causing suffering, he will be that suffering day in day out.
Now compassion isn't the same as condoning, and I say bring down the full wrath of the internets on the guy. It may be just the shock that he needs to begin reassessing how he treats people.
In the end all we have is each other and how we treat each other. There really is nothing else.
Oh for fucks sake. Feel better now? He wasn't in the right, but neither are you. You're like a bunch of schoolkids that stand around watching the school bully get a licking, and screaming "HIT HIM! HIT HIM!". Maybe you'll get some blood on your shirt to proudly display at recess. I wonder what you'll do when your 15 minutes of internet infamy strikes you out of the blue.
Oh, this just pegs the irony meter. The fortune at the bottom of this page right now is "The way some people find fault, you'd think there was some kind of reward."
Except that this guy demonstrated zero professionalism, zero ability to even understand basic customer service skills, zero empathy with another human being. When he says control the customer, he meant, literally, control as in domination.
Look at every single thing this guy has done and it's very, very obvious he's a completely abusive shitheel who believes in a very strong hierarchy where big guys shit on little guys and that's *right*.
Every single statement he's made has been to the effect of "I'm sorry you were someone able to crush me, if I'd known that I wouldn't have started with you" and emphatically not "I'm sorry I was being an asshole to my customer, and I'm going to try to do better."
Further, there is evidence that he abused his wife/girlfriend (court documents have been found), that he's lying about some of the things he claims have contributed to his recent bad day (a friend of his died - an excuse he's used several times before), that he's behaved exactly like this in the past, over a course of years.
Even more damning is his response going forward: he's being a dick to everyone, insisting that it's everyone else's fault, and now looking to capitalize on just how huge a dick the entire internet now knows him to be.
The only saving grace here is that unlike many other people who have his same wiring (I'm not saying "sociopath" but yeah, basically "sociopath"), he is a complete fucking moron when it comes to learning how to effectively manipulate people and make them feel good about it.
This guy is clearly a bully, and he displays classic bully obsequiousness when he gets the shit kicked out of him by someone with more power. It's the only language he understands, as has been made ABUNDANTLY obvious by everything that's come out about him.
On the flip side, there's literally zero evidence that he knows how to behave like a normal human being. Nobody is coming forward to defend this guy - except for people who don't know him who feel bad that he's been set upon by the Internetz. He has had no friends speak up, nobody in the industry he supposedly has so many connections in has spoken up, not even to say, "Well, yeah, he was being a dick here but he's not always like that."
There certainly is a concept of controlling the call in customer service, but you cannot honestly tell me that you think this guy was using the term "control" in this way after everything he's said and done.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
oh look. michael david kristopeit is commenting on thread about an asshole being a huge jerk to people over the internet. how fitting.
If it's not non-apology apologies he's blaming PA's Mike Krahulik for being a bully (ironic) and attacking those he name dropped (who oddly enough failed to ride to his rescue...) and threatening twitter users for telling him off. Every single one of Paul Christoforo's actions during and after this mess boiled over scream that he believes he's not in the wrong. The jackass has some kind of douche mental block whereby he's unable to get he's in the wrong here.
Instead of even feigning a sincere apology and then shutting up (which would have led to this mess only being a flash in the pan that would quickly have tailed off), he keeps blaming everyone else for his problems, even inventing crap like 'my friend died', and continues to post arrogant douchebaggery and give interviews where he blames everyone but himself and tries to make out any publicity is good publicity. Uggg.
I'm sorry Paul, but you're just asking for your current harassment. You're practically begging for it...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
http://www.myspace.com/theangrypimp03/photos/4892418#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A4892418%7D
fak3r.com
And having worked in customer service you undoubtedly know the one of the main elements of "Call control" is to control yourself.. you lose that and its all over.
I worked at a business cellular call centre a while back and got a call from an average customer. I fixed his rather common issue though it took some time. I treated him like I treat everyone who called me; quickly, courteously and efficiently. When the issue was dealt with the customer mentioned that his brother was the president of the company and was thinking about moving to another cellular provider due to the poor service. He then stated that, considering the service he received from me, he thought the service was getting better and he would talk to his brother. I checked and found that I may have save the company a contract worth a couple hundred thousand dollars per year merely by doing my job by treating everyone as well as I can.
When you have contact with customers treat everyone as well as you can because the person in front of you a) deserves it and b) may influence a big customer. (The most important part of that is the a part)
This sounds a bit like road rage -- if someone cuts me off, my goal becomes "get them away from me because they're potentially damaging to me", not "time to teach them a lesson".
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
C'mon Slashdot, you can do better!
Wow, all of that was incredibly lame.
And in road rage you'd probably be right, but it wouldn't normally be very damaging to anyone to spend ten or fifteen minutes on the phone with an unhelpful support tech. It's just a waste of your time, which you can presumably spare, but it looks really bad for them.
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/30/144470789/the-last-word-in-business
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Paul Christoforo, is that you?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
If you can't see the fact that you sound exactly like the guy in the story, who is being the idiot?
But than again, you are the troll here...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
you sound exactly like michael kristopeit AND the guy in the story. you perceive that you can only sound like one thing, but that is incorrect. you're an idiot.