There are going to be plenty of places where you can screw up an install of any OS. It's kind of by design; I'm not saying that any OS install is perfect or that you couldn't intentionally screw it up.
I wouldn't complain if, for example, Ubuntu gave you a list of places you could install GRUB and it let me pick the wrong one.
I wouldn't complain if, for example, Ubunut gave you a textbox to enter a place to install, then it validated your entry and, if it wasn't a valid drive - gave you an error message before letting you continue. And, certainly, if you give it a valid place, but you really wanted something else, it can't do anything about that.
But, instead of selecting from a list of places (in my setup, there are only two places you could choose), it gives you a freeform text box. And, validation is performed on that text box until the install is nearly complete.
I don't think anyone can argue that what I've described is a well thought out, user friendly, process. You can say 'Well, you shouldn't touch things you don't know about' and 'You shouldn't accidently make typos' and that's fine...but it's still not user-friendly.
I worked on a sales register for a fairly large housewares store and as part of the testing, we put pretty much anything you can think of into pretty much every field/combobox/dropdown/list/etc... in the app. User friendly is all about helping the user not screw things up. The more important the task, the more the difficult it should be to screw it up.
Being able to boot is pretty darn important. A little error checking would be nice. Again, this is just the install app - there are only a handful of things you can enter; and nobody thought it would be a good idea to check what you put into it? Doesn't seem user friendly to me at all.
Yeah - I'm kind of in a jam. Since my current wireless usb adapter doesn't work; if I'm going to have to buy something, I want it to have native linux support. But I'm having a lot of trouble finding something - I thought it would be easy; but I think it has to do with the actual chipsets and not the model or device name? I'm planning on devoting some time to it this weekend.
I have a feeling I might just go and buy a Linux laptop from some small vendor that will have Ubuntu pre-installed and the hardware all working; in my experiences with Linux, hardware problems have always been what ruined it for me. Even though it's not really the fault of "Linux" or Ubuntu - nobody wants a PC that can't go online. When I was in college, having to buy a $50-90 dollar piece of hardware to get Linux up and running, was enough for me to say 'Ehh, screw it' and reboot back into Windows.
I haven't reported it; but mostly because I have a lot of trouble getting online (Ubuntu doesn't autodetect either of my wireless USB Adapters - LinkSys WUSB300N or my NetGear WPN111). The WPN111 will work with ndiswrap - but it doesn't seem to support WEP.
Should I ever get everything up and running - I am very much looking forward to adding validation code. Maybe I'm wrong - but I can't imagine it being too difficult; but time will tell.
I did run a cat-5 cable to the PC and that worked; but I didn't want to leave the cable on the floor.
I'm not sure about the alternate or desktop cd - I purchased a book that included the Ubuntu CD - I also downloaded the newest version (to see if the newer one could autodetect my network stuff; but it didn't) - but both seemed to follow the exact same install process. Should I be looking for a Desktop CD instead?
Well, if *your* wife can do it; I most certainly want to do it too!
Please tell me how to configure my Wireless USB Network Adaptor - it's a LinkSys WUSB300N Wireless-N.
Heck, I'll do you one better...since you and I both know you won't be able to tell me how to get it running in Ubuntu, with or without ndiswrap'in it, (and if you *can* tell me how - then please head over to the Ubuntu Forums and post it form everyone; I'll totally apologize for my ignorance) - why not just give me a link to *any* Wireless-N USB Adapater I can get at BestBuy.com - that will be autodetected/configured/natively supported by Ubuntu (any version you specify). None of this using a windows driver and adding an extra layer of processing and all that junk...just something I can buy, today, from Best Buy that connects via USB, and can handle Wireless-N speeds.
P.S. While I sound a little sarcastic, because I do think that hardware support still blows in Linux - I REALLY do want a wireless USB device that will work, natively, in Linux. I've asked on plenty of Linux forums. If you can link me something, I really am going to go and buy it - I'm sick having a 30 foot long cat-5 cable running down my hall.
People say that Ubuntu is easy to use and that it 'just works'. What they *mean* to say is that Ubuntu is easier than other flavors of Linux, and it 'sorta' just works...more so than what the Linux community is used to.
Ubuntu fans - try this....
Pop in the install CD - boot into Ubuntu, click the 'install icon'. Go through the install like you normally would. When you get to the end of the install menus and it asks where you want to put GRUB - change HD0 to something fun like 'BUTT' or 'HDE9' or "H0D" or "DH1".
Ubuntu will accept your value, then it will begin the lengthy install process, and you'll be unable to boot. I couldn't get back into Ubuntu or Windows.
You'll have to use the Ubuntu CD again - and unless you know how to use GRUB, you'll have to go through the whole install process again.
This is the INSTALL process, of the MOST user friendly Linux distro. It's a great OS, I use, I like it; but the market share it's grabbing is from other Linux users.
While I'm sure you felt very clever by demonstrating your impeccable logic skills...you either missed or ignored my point completely.
My point is this - Linux has an insignificant presence on the desktop.
Companies are out to make money. When a hardware vendor is faced with the choice of paying the development/testing costs to provide native Linux drivers; they are going to make that choice with their own best interest at heart ($$$). The increased potential customer base they gain by supporting Linux will gain them less money than the cost to produce the drivers. That's why you can't walk into Best Buy and purchase a wireless network card that says it will work in Linux.
You don't need an in depth study to figure this out, and the only people who complain about how hard it is to measure Linux adoption rates are the Linux fan boys who want to imply how great Linux is doing and how it's gaining popularity.
Linux has made progress in a lot of areas, but it hasn't made much, if any, on the desktop in the last few years. Look at the chart at http://counter.li.org/ and it's pretty easy to see.
But hey - I apologize if you could understand my post. I forget that things like common sense are getting more and more rare on sites like this one each day. Because, yes, clearly, when I said both that I use Ubuntu and nobody uses Linux I meant either that I do not exist or that Ubuntu is not Linux. Myself, and everyone else here, would like to thank you for taking the time to point out the silliness of my irrational ramblings. You, good sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
I love Linux, I think it's great. I run Slackware and Ubuntu; and I'm going to purchase that cool new Linux-phone real soon. What I *hate* is the way that some Linux users flat-out lie to promote Linux as something it's not.
Attempts to count Linux desktop users is pointless and the primary reason for that is....nobody uses Linux on the desktop. You don't need a fancy survey to tell you that. Walk into Best-Buy and find a wireless card that lists 'Linux' on the side of the box where it says 'Supported OSes'. Better yet, ask a sales rep where the Linux section is, or if this ________ device has native Linux drivers included.
I'm sure I'll get plenty of flames for this - and they'll be from the very same people that tell newbies how easy it is to install Linux, and that hardware support is *practically* just as good as Windows, and that you can do *everything* you can do on Windows, and it's just as good.
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There are going to be plenty of places where you can screw up an install of any OS. It's kind of by design; I'm not saying that any OS install is perfect or that you couldn't intentionally screw it up.
I wouldn't complain if, for example, Ubuntu gave you a list of places you could install GRUB and it let me pick the wrong one.
I wouldn't complain if, for example, Ubunut gave you a textbox to enter a place to install, then it validated your entry and, if it wasn't a valid drive - gave you an error message before letting you continue. And, certainly, if you give it a valid place, but you really wanted something else, it can't do anything about that.
But, instead of selecting from a list of places (in my setup, there are only two places you could choose), it gives you a freeform text box. And, validation is performed on that text box until the install is nearly complete.
I don't think anyone can argue that what I've described is a well thought out, user friendly, process. You can say 'Well, you shouldn't touch things you don't know about' and 'You shouldn't accidently make typos' and that's fine...but it's still not user-friendly.
I worked on a sales register for a fairly large housewares store and as part of the testing, we put pretty much anything you can think of into pretty much every field/combobox/dropdown/list/etc... in the app. User friendly is all about helping the user not screw things up. The more important the task, the more the difficult it should be to screw it up.
Being able to boot is pretty darn important. A little error checking would be nice. Again, this is just the install app - there are only a handful of things you can enter; and nobody thought it would be a good idea to check what you put into it? Doesn't seem user friendly to me at all.
Yeah - I'm kind of in a jam. Since my current wireless usb adapter doesn't work; if I'm going to have to buy something, I want it to have native linux support. But I'm having a lot of trouble finding something - I thought it would be easy; but I think it has to do with the actual chipsets and not the model or device name? I'm planning on devoting some time to it this weekend.
I have a feeling I might just go and buy a Linux laptop from some small vendor that will have Ubuntu pre-installed and the hardware all working; in my experiences with Linux, hardware problems have always been what ruined it for me. Even though it's not really the fault of "Linux" or Ubuntu - nobody wants a PC that can't go online. When I was in college, having to buy a $50-90 dollar piece of hardware to get Linux up and running, was enough for me to say 'Ehh, screw it' and reboot back into Windows.
I haven't reported it; but mostly because I have a lot of trouble getting online (Ubuntu doesn't autodetect either of my wireless USB Adapters - LinkSys WUSB300N or my NetGear WPN111). The WPN111 will work with ndiswrap - but it doesn't seem to support WEP.
Should I ever get everything up and running - I am very much looking forward to adding validation code. Maybe I'm wrong - but I can't imagine it being too difficult; but time will tell.
I did run a cat-5 cable to the PC and that worked; but I didn't want to leave the cable on the floor.
I'm not sure about the alternate or desktop cd - I purchased a book that included the Ubuntu CD - I also downloaded the newest version (to see if the newer one could autodetect my network stuff; but it didn't) - but both seemed to follow the exact same install process. Should I be looking for a Desktop CD instead?
Well, if *your* wife can do it; I most certainly want to do it too!
Please tell me how to configure my Wireless USB Network Adaptor - it's a LinkSys WUSB300N Wireless-N.
Heck, I'll do you one better...since you and I both know you won't be able to tell me how to get it running in Ubuntu, with or without ndiswrap'in it, (and if you *can* tell me how - then please head over to the Ubuntu Forums and post it form everyone; I'll totally apologize for my ignorance) - why not just give me a link to *any* Wireless-N USB Adapater I can get at BestBuy.com - that will be autodetected/configured/natively supported by Ubuntu (any version you specify). None of this using a windows driver and adding an extra layer of processing and all that junk...just something I can buy, today, from Best Buy that connects via USB, and can handle Wireless-N speeds.
P.S. While I sound a little sarcastic, because I do think that hardware support still blows in Linux - I REALLY do want a wireless USB device that will work, natively, in Linux. I've asked on plenty of Linux forums. If you can link me something, I really am going to go and buy it - I'm sick having a 30 foot long cat-5 cable running down my hall.
People say that Ubuntu is easy to use and that it 'just works'. What they *mean* to say is that Ubuntu is easier than other flavors of Linux, and it 'sorta' just works...more so than what the Linux community is used to.
Ubuntu fans - try this....
Pop in the install CD - boot into Ubuntu, click the 'install icon'. Go through the install like you normally would. When you get to the end of the install menus and it asks where you want to put GRUB - change HD0 to something fun like 'BUTT' or 'HDE9' or "H0D" or "DH1".
Ubuntu will accept your value, then it will begin the lengthy install process, and you'll be unable to boot. I couldn't get back into Ubuntu or Windows.
You'll have to use the Ubuntu CD again - and unless you know how to use GRUB, you'll have to go through the whole install process again.
This is the INSTALL process, of the MOST user friendly Linux distro. It's a great OS, I use, I like it; but the market share it's grabbing is from other Linux users.
While I'm sure you felt very clever by demonstrating your impeccable logic skills...you either missed or ignored my point completely.
My point is this - Linux has an insignificant presence on the desktop.
Companies are out to make money. When a hardware vendor is faced with the choice of paying the development/testing costs to provide native Linux drivers; they are going to make that choice with their own best interest at heart ($$$). The increased potential customer base they gain by supporting Linux will gain them less money than the cost to produce the drivers. That's why you can't walk into Best Buy and purchase a wireless network card that says it will work in Linux.
You don't need an in depth study to figure this out, and the only people who complain about how hard it is to measure Linux adoption rates are the Linux fan boys who want to imply how great Linux is doing and how it's gaining popularity.
Linux has made progress in a lot of areas, but it hasn't made much, if any, on the desktop in the last few years. Look at the chart at http://counter.li.org/ and it's pretty easy to see.
But hey - I apologize if you could understand my post. I forget that things like common sense are getting more and more rare on sites like this one each day. Because, yes, clearly, when I said both that I use Ubuntu and nobody uses Linux I meant either that I do not exist or that Ubuntu is not Linux. Myself, and everyone else here, would like to thank you for taking the time to point out the silliness of my irrational ramblings. You, good sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
I love Linux, I think it's great. I run Slackware and Ubuntu; and I'm going to purchase that cool new Linux-phone real soon. What I *hate* is the way that some Linux users flat-out lie to promote Linux as something it's not. Attempts to count Linux desktop users is pointless and the primary reason for that is....nobody uses Linux on the desktop. You don't need a fancy survey to tell you that. Walk into Best-Buy and find a wireless card that lists 'Linux' on the side of the box where it says 'Supported OSes'. Better yet, ask a sales rep where the Linux section is, or if this ________ device has native Linux drivers included. I'm sure I'll get plenty of flames for this - and they'll be from the very same people that tell newbies how easy it is to install Linux, and that hardware support is *practically* just as good as Windows, and that you can do *everything* you can do on Windows, and it's just as good.