Sorry! There _are_ actual real OSI protocols, based on the OSI model. The TCP/IP protocols follow their own 5-layer model which has nothing to do with the OSI model. For some perverse reason, people keep trying to map TCP/IP protocols to the OSI model, and it doesn't exactly work.
If you're using OSI protocols, then use the OSI model. Otherwise please bury it very deep, and never mention it again.
* An apostrophe does not mean, "look out, here comes an S!!!"
* It's protocol, not protocal.
* It's a lot, not alot.
Now, onto the content. Does ANYONE use any of the OSI protocols? Everyone tries to map tcp/ip onto the OSI model, but the actual OSI protocols died as they were being created, if I remember.
Also, most machines now allow you to change the apparent (and sometimes the actual) MAC address fairly easily. This is generally a Bad Thing, but makes it easy to spoof traffic authenticating by MAC address.
Nah. Misogyny is only a problem if (a) you think it's acceptable behaviour, and/or (b) act on it.
In other words, CmdrTaco can be as sick as he wants in his games. I'm hoping (and fairly confident) that he certainly doesn't hold real women in contempt or treat them like dirt. It's just a game!
OK, maybe an exaggeration. Programming in straight machine code will give you the fastest and tightest code...when you finish in 2007!
C is probably the best compromise, but design is crucial--go read "Mastering Algorithms with Perl" or something similar to remind you how important GOOD coding for the situation is, rather than concentrating on the language.
First of all, loss of money is easy. How much bandwidth is being used by spammers? Who pays for bandwidth? The RECIPIENT! Who pays for the publisher's clearinghouse crap? THE PUBLISHER'S CLEARINGHOUSE! There's the big difference.
Besides, in this case the spammers crashed the machine they were (illegally!) using as a relay. Theft of service, vandalism, and the like.
As far as separate accounts for spam vs. real mail, I don't want to go to the effort of avoiding spammers--I want to drive them into the dirt, where they belong.
"You seemed to say that simply because you were older, you had the above attributes."
Yikes! Definitely not. I would say, however, that because I'm older, I've had more time to develop those attributes if I have the ability and desire in the first place. Big if there, no doubt!
I'd agree that not hiring under 25 is extreme. I suspect that if you interivewed with the original poster, he'd be fairly quick to hire you if you're as you say. (which I can certainly believe)
But every shit-hot young programmer thinks he deserves to be senior systems programmer and get paid appropriately. Maybe one percent of them are good enough _overall_ for the position, and even they should have to prove it, by starting in a position appropriate to their professional experience.
Exactly what do you mean by "aligned themselves with the devil?" They're still free for individual and non-profit access, and quite affordable to for-profit companies. They still provide the same service. Why have they suddenly become evil?
OK, now you've got me totally confused. I don't see how my comments are particularly bigotted, insensitive, or bragging.
Here's the thing: No matter how mature and responsible you are, no one's going to really consider you as an adult until you're 17 or 18 if you're lucky. That's the way it goes. That's life. AFTER that point, you start to accumulate experience with surviving in the 'adult world,' for lack of a better word. Five, seven, maybe ten years of that environment and you'll be far more able to deal with the non-programming aspects of being a programmer, or non-tech aspects of being a tech in general.
Does that explain things better? I'm not calling you a stupid punk, but I'm also saying that I'd be very careful about sending you to a client as a first contact. I'm also willing to pay more to people I know have sufficient experience in the workforce that I can say, 'go do this' and know it'll get done properly for the particular situation.
Bottom line is this: Working as a programmer (or any other field) involves a lot more than programming. Business and people skills are more complex and subtle than we like to give them credit for when we're younger.
You're 23 now. I'd be interested to see what you think on the subject when you hit 31 or so. Just make sure you never lose your ideals--I haven't, and I'll still offer to quit if I'm told to do something stupid.
No, no, no! Please do NOT screw up the CDDB! They're providing a good service to individuals and any companies who want to pay for a license. Napster happened to be one of 'em. Don't make the CDDB useless for all of the other purposes just to get your revenge against Napster trying to survive.
I'm fairly late into the computing market. I got a degree and several years of experience in an unrelated science field before drifting into Unix. Now I find that I'm in incredible demand when I go for interviews. Why? Because I've got the maturity and social skills to back my technical skills, and some seriously broad-based troubleshooting skills. When people are looking for "experience," it generally means the experience of successfully dealing with the unexpected, unpredictable, and annoying; AND all under a deadline without ripping the head off of a stupid client.
There are better and younger programmers out there. There are damned few younger programmers who are worth more than entry-level wages, no matter how good their code.
Oh, don't be such a jackass. If a bank knows or has reason to suspect that one of their customers is committing fraud, they are required by law to inform the authorities. Used record (CD) stores are required to tell the police if they think that some of their merchandise is stolen. (which is why they don't ask _any_ questions when you bring stuff in--they don't want to have any evidence that 40-70% of their stock is stolen)
It's called responsibility. Responsibilty to the police, and to society.
This is an easy one. If AOL had started to take action, was investigating, etc., then that evidence would have come out in court. In fact, it probably would have come out in Russell's trial, as evidence.
The fact that AOL was under some suspicion almost guarantees that they _didn't_ investigate the complaints.
Yeah, I agree--I use it, and that's all that should matter. BUT, consider this: Usenet was the first, best, and possibly only real online community of any size. Internet culture matters to it because it was a culture and a community unto itself. That culture is dead. That sense of community started to die with AOL and Canter&Siegel. Usenet as it used to be is dead, and we'll never see a community like that again online. That's all.
Seriously, usenet is dead. That's not to say I don't read, use, and post to it regularly (I do!), but as a vibrant and current bit of internet culture, it just ain't there anymore. The death of dejanews was the final nail in the coffin, and at this point, I don't think there's ANYTHING google can do to revive it.
Well that's sort of my point, although throwing PalmOS in there makes a difference. If you can't justify Linux from a business standpoint, then it's not a better system. Uptime doesn't count if you can't talk to anyone else, and free is irrelevant if there are no apps.
My original point was that it sounds like Taco doesn't believe Linux to be a better system in the real world. Maybe fair, but uncommon on/. and if true, then what's the point of advocacy.
However like I said in THIS post, the PalmOS factor changes things. Linux may be miles better than WinCE but not as good as PalmOS, in which case there is a point to advocating change.
P.S. to the moderator: Flamebait? If I was baiting, you'd know it!
"As cool as that would be, I'm gonna seriously doubt that its gonna happen."
<p>So why do you doubt that it's gonna happen? Don't you think that Linux is a better choice?
<p>Here's the thing: HP is big enough that if putting Linux on a handheld will save them money or improve their product, they won't be so scared of MS to not do it. By far the biggest reason that they would stick with WinME is that it makes economic sense for them, on a large scale. If you doubt that it's 'gonna happen,' then it implies that you either don't understand this, or don't think that Linux is a better product.
I was saying the same thing from M15 to 0.7. 0.8 blew me away, though. Once it's running, it's fast, sleek, usable, and actually _releases_ memory that it grabbed on startup. (go figure that one!)
However, it behaves very differently on some friends' machines which by all rights, are nearly identical. I suspect that some of the remaining bugs are getting picked up on particular configurations and hardware, and it still sucks in those cases.
But quite honestly, moz0.8 is the first time I've been at all excited by the Mozilla project in ages. I actually see it possibly becoming an excellent browser now, instead of a rambling experiment with no end.
Heh. It's fun to be in the position of having more knowledge than most, and say, 'if I missed anything, feel free to correct me...'
No corrections, but a bit of emphasis. If you overclock, you're going to _significantly_ increase the time-to-failure of a chip, due to circuit trace migration. Run current through a trace on a chip, and the actual metal atoms start to travel away from the trace. This is part of the design limitations, and when you exceed the normal operating specs, you can really crank up the speed at which migration happens. (can't remember the details, but it sure ain't linear!)
That said, I suspect the MTBF for a modern is somewhere on the order of 20 years. If you shorten the life by 75%, you're still looking at a 5 year life, which as you said is about as long as a processor is likely to be useful anyways.
Very good summary article, although I take issue with one point:
"...O?Reilly had established a cult reputation as a crusader against the commercialism of cyberspace."
Maybe against the brainless and money-grubbing commercialism of cyberspace, but I don't think I've ever heard Tim say that the internet should go back to a pure and commerce-free medium. If he did, he should stop selling books online.
I think Tim is just against using the novelty internet as an excuse for stifling innovation and stealing. (including bad patents)
The industrial revolution was incredibly important to how we live our lives today. It was possibly the biggest single event (as much as it was a 'single event') to shape the world we live in.
BUT, how much time do we spend thinking about it? Or the black plague? Can you imagine what it would have been like during the plague, when a third of the population of Europe died? Incredible, and impossible to comprehend, but now it's just a note in the history books.
Anyways, my original point was that the complete collapse of society worldwide and all the horrors associated with it, would lead to the formation of a new society which studied us as a detached part of ancient history.
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry! There _are_ actual real OSI protocols, based on the OSI model. The TCP/IP protocols follow their own 5-layer model which has nothing to do with the OSI model. For some perverse reason, people keep trying to map TCP/IP protocols to the OSI model, and it doesn't exactly work.
If you're using OSI protocols, then use the OSI model. Otherwise please bury it very deep, and never mention it again.
Rant time.
* An apostrophe does not mean, "look out, here comes an S!!!"
* It's protocol, not protocal.
* It's a lot, not alot.
Now, onto the content. Does ANYONE use any of the OSI protocols? Everyone tries to map tcp/ip onto the OSI model, but the actual OSI protocols died as they were being created, if I remember.
Also, most machines now allow you to change the apparent (and sometimes the actual) MAC address fairly easily. This is generally a Bad Thing, but makes it easy to spoof traffic authenticating by MAC address.
Nah. Misogyny is only a problem if (a) you think it's acceptable behaviour, and/or (b) act on it.
In other words, CmdrTaco can be as sick as he wants in his games. I'm hoping (and fairly confident) that he certainly doesn't hold real women in contempt or treat them like dirt. It's just a game!
OK, maybe an exaggeration. Programming in straight machine code will give you the fastest and tightest code...when you finish in 2007!
C is probably the best compromise, but design is crucial--go read "Mastering Algorithms with Perl" or something similar to remind you how important GOOD coding for the situation is, rather than concentrating on the language.
First of all, loss of money is easy. How much bandwidth is being used by spammers? Who pays for bandwidth? The RECIPIENT! Who pays for the publisher's clearinghouse crap? THE PUBLISHER'S CLEARINGHOUSE! There's the big difference.
Besides, in this case the spammers crashed the machine they were (illegally!) using as a relay. Theft of service, vandalism, and the like.
As far as separate accounts for spam vs. real mail, I don't want to go to the effort of avoiding spammers--I want to drive them into the dirt, where they belong.
"You seemed to say that simply because you were older, you had the above attributes."
Yikes! Definitely not. I would say, however, that because I'm older, I've had more time to develop those attributes if I have the ability and desire in the first place. Big if there, no doubt!
I'd agree that not hiring under 25 is extreme. I suspect that if you interivewed with the original poster, he'd be fairly quick to hire you if you're as you say. (which I can certainly believe)
But every shit-hot young programmer thinks he deserves to be senior systems programmer and get paid appropriately. Maybe one percent of them are good enough _overall_ for the position, and even they should have to prove it, by starting in a position appropriate to their professional experience.
Exactly what do you mean by "aligned themselves with the devil?" They're still free for individual and non-profit access, and quite affordable to for-profit companies. They still provide the same service. Why have they suddenly become evil?
OK, now you've got me totally confused. I don't see how my comments are particularly bigotted, insensitive, or bragging.
Here's the thing: No matter how mature and responsible you are, no one's going to really consider you as an adult until you're 17 or 18 if you're lucky. That's the way it goes. That's life. AFTER that point, you start to accumulate experience with surviving in the 'adult world,' for lack of a better word. Five, seven, maybe ten years of that environment and you'll be far more able to deal with the non-programming aspects of being a programmer, or non-tech aspects of being a tech in general.
Does that explain things better? I'm not calling you a stupid punk, but I'm also saying that I'd be very careful about sending you to a client as a first contact. I'm also willing to pay more to people I know have sufficient experience in the workforce that I can say, 'go do this' and know it'll get done properly for the particular situation.
Bottom line is this: Working as a programmer (or any other field) involves a lot more than programming. Business and people skills are more complex and subtle than we like to give them credit for when we're younger.
You're 23 now. I'd be interested to see what you think on the subject when you hit 31 or so. Just make sure you never lose your ideals--I haven't, and I'll still offer to quit if I'm told to do something stupid.
No, no, no! Please do NOT screw up the CDDB! They're providing a good service to individuals and any companies who want to pay for a license. Napster happened to be one of 'em. Don't make the CDDB useless for all of the other purposes just to get your revenge against Napster trying to survive.
I love agreeing with flamebait. :-)
I'm fairly late into the computing market. I got a degree and several years of experience in an unrelated science field before drifting into Unix. Now I find that I'm in incredible demand when I go for interviews. Why? Because I've got the maturity and social skills to back my technical skills, and some seriously broad-based troubleshooting skills. When people are looking for "experience," it generally means the experience of successfully dealing with the unexpected, unpredictable, and annoying; AND all under a deadline without ripping the head off of a stupid client.
There are better and younger programmers out there. There are damned few younger programmers who are worth more than entry-level wages, no matter how good their code.
Not a problem. You can download Solaris source code from Sun.
Oh, don't be such a jackass. If a bank knows or has reason to suspect that one of their customers is committing fraud, they are required by law to inform the authorities. Used record (CD) stores are required to tell the police if they think that some of their merchandise is stolen. (which is why they don't ask _any_ questions when you bring stuff in--they don't want to have any evidence that 40-70% of their stock is stolen)
It's called responsibility. Responsibilty to the police, and to society.
This is an easy one. If AOL had started to take action, was investigating, etc., then that evidence would have come out in court. In fact, it probably would have come out in Russell's trial, as evidence.
The fact that AOL was under some suspicion almost guarantees that they _didn't_ investigate the complaints.
Yeah, I agree--I use it, and that's all that should matter. BUT, consider this: Usenet was the first, best, and possibly only real online community of any size. Internet culture matters to it because it was a culture and a community unto itself. That culture is dead. That sense of community started to die with AOL and Canter&Siegel. Usenet as it used to be is dead, and we'll never see a community like that again online. That's all.
Seriously, usenet is dead. That's not to say I don't read, use, and post to it regularly (I do!), but as a vibrant and current bit of internet culture, it just ain't there anymore. The death of dejanews was the final nail in the coffin, and at this point, I don't think there's ANYTHING google can do to revive it.
*moment of silence*
Thanks!
Well that's sort of my point, although throwing PalmOS in there makes a difference. If you can't justify Linux from a business standpoint, then it's not a better system. Uptime doesn't count if you can't talk to anyone else, and free is irrelevant if there are no apps.
/. and if true, then what's the point of advocacy.
My original point was that it sounds like Taco doesn't believe Linux to be a better system in the real world. Maybe fair, but uncommon on
However like I said in THIS post, the PalmOS factor changes things. Linux may be miles better than WinCE but not as good as PalmOS, in which case there is a point to advocating change.
P.S. to the moderator: Flamebait? If I was baiting, you'd know it!
Either FIX the fucking "Extrans," or get rid of the damned thing!
"As cool as that would be, I'm gonna seriously doubt that its gonna happen."
<p>So why do you doubt that it's gonna happen? Don't you think that Linux is a better choice?
<p>Here's the thing: HP is big enough that if putting Linux on a handheld will save them money or improve their product, they won't be so scared of MS to not do it. By far the biggest reason that they would stick with WinME is that it makes economic sense for them, on a large scale. If you doubt that it's 'gonna happen,' then it implies that you either don't understand this, or don't think that Linux is a better product.
Yep. That and Windows ME, as in "Bend me over the table and Windows me again."
I was saying the same thing from M15 to 0.7. 0.8 blew me away, though. Once it's running, it's fast, sleek, usable, and actually _releases_ memory that it grabbed on startup. (go figure that one!)
However, it behaves very differently on some friends' machines which by all rights, are nearly identical. I suspect that some of the remaining bugs are getting picked up on particular configurations and hardware, and it still sucks in those cases.
But quite honestly, moz0.8 is the first time I've been at all excited by the Mozilla project in ages. I actually see it possibly becoming an excellent browser now, instead of a rambling experiment with no end.
Heh. It's fun to be in the position of having more knowledge than most, and say, 'if I missed anything, feel free to correct me...'
No corrections, but a bit of emphasis. If you overclock, you're going to _significantly_ increase the time-to-failure of a chip, due to circuit trace migration. Run current through a trace on a chip, and the actual metal atoms start to travel away from the trace. This is part of the design limitations, and when you exceed the normal operating specs, you can really crank up the speed at which migration happens. (can't remember the details, but it sure ain't linear!)
That said, I suspect the MTBF for a modern is somewhere on the order of 20 years. If you shorten the life by 75%, you're still looking at a 5 year life, which as you said is about as long as a processor is likely to be useful anyways.
Very good summary article, although I take issue with one point:
"...O?Reilly had established a cult reputation as a crusader against the commercialism of cyberspace."
Maybe against the brainless and money-grubbing commercialism of cyberspace, but I don't think I've ever heard Tim say that the internet should go back to a pure and commerce-free medium. If he did, he should stop selling books online.
I think Tim is just against using the novelty internet as an excuse for stifling innovation and stealing. (including bad patents)
Just don't forget to wipe the disk clean before you start.
OK, I'll agree that that wasn't very clear.
The industrial revolution was incredibly important to how we live our lives today. It was possibly the biggest single event (as much as it was a 'single event') to shape the world we live in.
BUT, how much time do we spend thinking about it? Or the black plague? Can you imagine what it would have been like during the plague, when a third of the population of Europe died? Incredible, and impossible to comprehend, but now it's just a note in the history books.
Anyways, my original point was that the complete collapse of society worldwide and all the horrors associated with it, would lead to the formation of a new society which studied us as a detached part of ancient history.