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Update to the Mozilla Roadmap
LinuxNews.pl wrote in to note that the mozilla roadmap was recently updated to include major milestones in the not so distance future, including a target for a 1.0 release in Q2. I write these words in Mozilla. Now that there are 128bit encryption modules,
all I want is more stability and more speed. Good luck guys!
Ehmm., The entire purpose of the "embedded Mozilla" initiative is to reduce footprint...
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the big reply button at the top of the comments should probably be your first port of call ;-)
And they really are not very expensive.
before anyone jumps up & down, let me clarify my comment about the only browser that is x-platform - I lump netscape & mozilla as the same thing these days. I know its not accurate, but they smell & feel the same. cheers
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Konqueror has nice, fast rendering, support for Netscape plugins, https using OpenSSL, Javascript support with the ability to disable window.open, fine-grained cookie management, the ability to fake a User Agent header if necessary, and so on and so on. To each their own, but I personally can't see any reason to use Mozilla over Konqueror.
Just a few notes. IE crashes on me in Win98. It always has. It displays things differently in Mac and Windows. It doesn't run in Linux or any other OS at all. If Microsoft was working to provide a standards based WWW browser on every platform it could, well I would say great. But to suggest that the IE saga has been somehow faster and more efficient than Mozilla, while offering the same quality of product, well you are wrong.
.1'...
IE was barely useable until version 4. The next version (6) will remove builtin java support.
Furthermore the number of upgrades I have seen for IE during my time using Win98 is pretty regular. The fact that they are beta testing in a closed environment versus an open environment is not a benefit.
One question I have for you is "Do you use Mozilla?" and "Have you ever had a bug report to them?" I have done both, and my experience has been that in most situations the organization of the Mozilla developers is quite sophisticated in closing out significant bugs. Whether Microsoft is similiarly efficient is impossible to know, since you can't watch and track bug reports made about IE.
I do know that in all bugs I have made I have recieved direct responses from a developer, either confirming the bug, showing it is a duplicate of an earlier one, or asking for more info.
The OPEN SOURCE development model is NOT merely a lengthy beta test anymore then Windows is. The fact is that mozilla has, as a nightly build functioned extremely well for me. There are times when I have to back out of an upgrade but I DO attempt to do nightly build installations. This is so that I can help out, giving bug reports, and further.
Mozilla is targetted over a wide range of platforms. It is an ambituous project with goals that aren't entire equivalent to Microsoft's IE.
That what was once a rough and slow performing webbrowser has become a fast rendering relatively well behaved app is a great thing. The fact that the Mozilla folks don't say "We are done" when they have it mostly done isn't a negative. Microsoft has consistently beta tested on their paying costumer... Look towards DOS 4.0 as one of the early examples of 'wait until the
The whole point of open standards is that you shouldn't have to design pages for one particular browser. Assuming that Konqueror and Mozilla implement the standards correctly, then pages will look acceptable in either.
It is only Microsoft who want you to code your content to a specific browser - Internet Explorer.
Even though that might be true, it has little if anything to do with this discussion. So now all a good Open Source project has to do is beat the equivalent Microsoft product in release quality? *That's* certainly a lofty goal.
On a side note, I've tried out the last four Mozilla releases and I haven't really been happy with any of them. I'm certainly grateful for the effort and impressed with what the Mozilla team has done, but I'll take Konqueror's speed, responsiveness, and stability over Mozilla in a second and there'd have to be a lot of improvement between now and 1.0 for that to change...
Unfortunately, Galeon works only for English-speaking users. If your language happens to use character set other than Latin-1, you are out of luck. Galeon also doesn't have other nice features, e.g. cookie/image/form manager (or right-click in Mozilla and Galeon - see?)
Try again. The only thing still missing form that list is the form manager. Try Galeon 0.10.1 (works just peachy with Mozilla 0.8).
Something definitely weird is going on with Mozilla memory usage... I'm running it on Win2000 (always the latest nightly), with 392MB RAM. Weird thing is if I switch to another app for half hour or so, or copy some files back and forth and then switch back to Mozilla, it takes _forever_. I mean, it would be pretty wierd for Windows to swap out a process when there's over 200MB free at any given time, but I can hear the disk grinding away for almost a minute before the window gets redrawn! It's really horrible. But for now I'm assuming it's either a regression bug (it didn't used to be that bad a while back) or some debugging code.
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
HOWEVER - latest galeon (0.10.1?) needs newer gnome betas.
HOWEVER - newer gnome betas still not packaged for mandrake.
Therefore, everything is ximian's fault. Their packagers have been VERY slow compared to when helix code was first made.
Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Berto
What's happening is the same thing that happens to Java Swing apps. All the images (READ: skins) are swapped out to disk. As these skins are 90% of the memory usage, it takes just short of forever to bring them back out of swap. Unfortunately, there isn't too much that can be done about this as most modern OSes (save for Linux) use their swap preemptively so that memory will be available if some monster of a program suddenly hits memory.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
A feature that I just found out about on Mozilla that I really like is that if someone posts a URL and you select it with the mouse, and middle click, it opens that URL in the current window so you don't have to copy and paste it into the URL text entry widget.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
This .sig for rent
It seems the hero is misunderstood again - Marillion
Once in a while, I'll boot into Windows to watch my legally-purchased DVDs on my legally-purchased DVD-ROM drive (unless Xine works, in which case...anyway...). I've used Mozilla 0.8 on Win95 OSR2, and Windows NT 4.0 sp-something. Runs like a dream. On the three platforms I've had a chance to run Mozilla 0.8 on, I have had one crash since release.
One.
Considering that Moz isn't using many native graphical hooks on any platform to draw widgets, but is drawing its own instead, I'd say it runs pretty good. Hell, I've found it's as fast as IE on the Win32 platforms I've used it on.
Re-read that. Mozilla 0.8 is as fast as IE on Win32. In fact, it's been as fast since Mozilla 0.6. I now try to avoid IE whenever possible.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Really. I run Mozilla nightlies & milestones on Mandrake (Linux), Solaris 7 (Sparc), Mac OS 9, Mac OS X PB, and NT4, and I've never had it take out anything but itself (and those instances have been pretty rare, only when I get a particularly bad nightly build.)
I have to deal with a ton of platforms on a regular basis, and the fact that Mozilla runs more-or-less the same on all of them is a real cool thing. It's been my primary browser on just about every platform for the last 3 months or so.
HINT: In Windows, you can hold down CTRL and left click a link and it will (most of the time) load up the link in a new window. I LOVE this feature seeing as I don't have a third button.
BTW: Does anyone know of a Windows driver to emulate a third button?
Later...
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
The developer in charge of packaging Mozilla for Debian won't put 0.8 in unstable due to encryption issues, and doesn't want to put in into non-US due to perceived problems with the autobuild process. It looks like he may be stripping strong encryption from the Debian port.
There does appear to be an effort to change his mind and get a strong SSL version in there somewhere.
Can I ask what might be a stupid question. If you download one of the nightly builds (I try the win32 regularly) what options are they compiled with?
Thanks
no sig.
> A war of disinformation
Or, more likely, you created the so-called impostors and this little silly war, just to get a little more attention on you.
Who could loose time impersonating you from _several_ different accounts ? It is just ridiculous, even Bruce Pernes don't have that much impostors.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
wondering why people still don't simply use the right tool for the task at hand...
:-)
Because I run Linux
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Moderators, please check User Info before modding up.
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Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
This is a known bug in the Personal Security Manager. The workarounds are not to install as root (install as yourself in a test directory) or to make the Personal Security Manager directory world-writable (a major security problem, obviously). The PSM rewrite targeted for this spring should fix this problem.
It is interesting how Mozilla is really the only browser that we hear any news about. I really haven't heard much from Netscape and IE recently. Are there going to be other interesting improvements in the browser realm in the not too distant future? I don't know, maybe I just live in a box and don't pay too much attention to these things.
> I remember that demo that fitted on a floppy disk.. what happened?
That "demo" that fitted on a floppy is still there. It is called Gecko. It is simply the rendering engine inside Mozilla.
Rob
This month the project is 3 years old. If it can deliver a product within the next year that people are generally excited about, then that proves that open source is capable of writing a browser in four years. The proof that open source works will have to wait for another project. This project proves nothing that can be bragged about. By the way, open source does not have 4 more years to wait for someone to prove that it works. OK, now hit that reply button and show me how upset you can be by reacting to all those things I didn't actually just say.
Works for me, and no I'm not running win95/98 so the devices will not work with my box.
I'm running Mozilla 0.8 on Linux...
user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/4.76 (Windows; U; NT4.0; en-us)")
to your prefs in Mozilla instead?
I'm writing this from Mozilla in a 64MB machine (a 233MHz P2) and it works fine. I'm not running the java component though which seems to eat a lot of memory.
What is that about "no intrusion notices" and configuring Opera correctly? What exactly are you talking about?
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Er... except that IE has _worse_ CSS support. With the possible exception of Mac IE 5.5, which has very good CSS1 support.
I've been using mozilla as my primary browser for the past 4 months. The browsing speed is acceptable on my PII-400 linux box, but not exactly snappy. After reading the recent articles on KDE, I thought it might be time to check out the alternatives to straight mozilla.
Konquerer is quite nice, but I generally prefer to stick with the gmome/gtk apps. I was pleasantly surprised that Galeon has come a LONG way since I last looked at it. In some areas it has even surpassed mozilla's functionality:
- user interface to control pop ups & animations.
- nicer, more integrated bookmark management
- better support for external handlers, like ftp and page source viewers.
- crash recovery picks up browsing where you left off.
- something called tabbed mode that I haven't played around with yet.
- the starting points of integration with nautilus.
All this, and it looks better, runs faster, and uses less memory than straight Mozilla. A win all around.
Thank you free software.
-OT
Have a link perhaps so I can finally add my home button back (and no, I don't want to use the friggin personal tool bar for one button)...
I am too writing these words in Mozilla, and I must say that rather than speed (for me it runs decently on my dual Celery466), it _has_ to be more stable.
/.
It's ironic that this story should appear only a few minutes after mozilla0.8 crashed and burned, taking my entire box with it... I had to hard reboot, and after fsck finished, I saw this story on
Well, in any case, those "minor" mishaps don't stop me from using mozilla as my main browser. I just hope that with the later releases I won't have to watch out all the time for mem leaks and/or crashes.
Good question... Anyone know?
You must be using it only for slashdot then. For me it crashes all the time, without warning. Or else it'll hang after it grabs the pointer when I close mail, making the system much harder to use (flip over to another console, type killall mozilla-bin, but what if there aren't any others?)
All I know is Konqueror (from KDE 2.0) blows Mozilla out of the water when it comes to stability and speed, and if KMail did IMAP (maybe it does in 2.1?) i would neven need to touch Mozilla ever again.
All around Mozilla is full of bugs, especially the one where you can't install it as root then use it, and the one where it hangs if it doesn't like your
P.S. if you install Java twice it works.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
I contacted Wells Fargo to ask why NS6.0 wasn't supported yet. Turns out it stores passwords on the local disk in such a way that other folks can walk up after you and login to your account. They stated they are working with Netscape on the issue. Folks, this is a design bungle of high order. I hate IE's password caching (and auto-complete is a freakin' nightmare), why would this method be re-implemented by the Mozilla crew?
The most recent change to the roadmap was to push 0.9 out five more weeks and to call the next release after 0.8 "0.8.1" instead. This was done partly because many open bugs that require large changes to the code are nominated for being fixed by mozilla 0.9. The "if we're lucky" release date for 1.0 was also pushed back five weeks.
The shareholder is always right.
Most of the GUI is actually interpreted JavaScript.
I think you're misunderstanding what they are calling "embedded". It's not for embedded devices. Embedded Mozilla are for projects like Galeon/skipstone/nautilus/whatever that use mozilla as a component inside their application, "embedded" in it.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Erm, most of the stuff I look at in my browser doesn't seem to be on my disk. Its on this wierd thing called the world wide web. Think!
Also try this and this. No good browser should allow you reading from devices. Think of redirects.
or could it, perhaps, be a page in the Portugal domain? Just a guess.
I haven't really seen much development in the skins or chrome. This is one of the more interesting and *kewl* features as far as I'm concerned. I know it's tacky, but not only do I want a browser that functions really well, I also want one that looks damn cool.
So where are all the chromes at? And don't point me to themes.org or the Netscape contest for themes. Those are mainly bad and I've grown bored of them.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
No honor among theives, I suppose...
I assume this was done for AOL's 'benefit.'
John
John
It's not even finished yet you loser! Until 1.0 is release, shut the fuck up.
I have been running 0.8 for a month now. It usually traps on me after visiting less than a dozen web pages. It even crashed on me just now while reading slashdot. Crashes occur both in the mail client and in the browser. My less common crash is when it eats 100% cpu and then crashes after eating all memory (over 100 megs of VM). It bites me so bad that I am writing this message from IE 4.0 to make sure it gets sent. YUCK! (I am running NT 4.0 sp6).
There is a nasty bug in Mozilla's handling of V4.x plugins:
/usr/X11R4/lib/libXm.so.6 and /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (by full name and path, no less), and if the loads on these fail, it will silently fail to load the plug-in.
When Mozilla gets ready to load the plugin, it first tries to expressly load
On my systems, a) libXt doesn't depend on libXm (good thing, as I don't HAVE a libXm) and b) I don't have a libXt.so.6! So all my 4.x plugins wouldn't load.
However, by adding a LD_PRELOAD=libXt.so before the actual invocation of mozilla-bin in run-mozilla.sh, it restored my plugins.
This is a known bug, but they sure as hell don't go out of their way to make it WELL known. It took me months of digging to find it...
www.eFax.com are spammers
this announcement seems to push 0.9 back a while, so I assume it pushes 1.0 back as well. This is probably due to the masses of bugs that have been reported against 0.8.
In the long run, we get a better browser, but how long is the run?
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
Mozilla and Konqueror both claim to support all the cool standards.
However neither is at final release so a few incompatibilities are still allowed. What I want to know is do they exist? Will complex pages designed for one look the same in the other?
Mind you this would not be the same as the IE vs Navigator fiasco of browser wars past but it would still suck for those who can't be bothered to download the "patch of the week" or the latest nightly build.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
And what the hell, where is the "Post Anynomously" check box?
and to nutscrape. I'll stick with konqueror. It opens the fastest, I can make the buttons the smallest, and it has the nifty "up" button!.
There are so many disgusting pictures, we might as well have them all in one place!
So compile it without. Fairly easy to do. Takes 3 and half weeks but not hard at all to do so.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
If your PHBs are worried about having a "supported tool" then IE 5 for Unix is not it.
Look at the link you used, and check out the patches available for IE5/Solaris. There are at least a dozen known bugs which have been patched on Windows IE but not on either Unix version.
Bugtraq discussed this a while back, and the conclusion was that "IE for Unix" is like "Netscape for Win3.1" - not something to bet on.
One of the complaints I hear is that Mozilla has taken 3 years to develop into its current state & it's still not stable enough for my [insert favorite relative here: e.g., dad, mom, baby brother, cousin, etc.] to use daily.
The thing that frustrates me with this argument is that due to the openness of Mozilla everyone knows when development actually started on it. Then the uninformed complain that IE took less time to develop.
There seems to be two obvious things overlooked:
1) IE 5 was built upon the existing IE 4.x code. It wasn't virtually rebuilt completely from scratch as Mozilla has. The last number I heard is that there is less than 5% legacy 4.x code left in Mozilla.
2) We know when they actually started to build Mozilla. Who knows how long Microsoft kept IE under wraps programming & debugging it before they publicly announced it? For all we know, they could have started programming it back in 834BC on an abacus -- which might explain a few things.
The fact that Open Source projects are just that -- open for all to see ( & critique ) doesn't necessarily mean that they take longer to produce.
It would be nice if someone would fix top or whatever subsystem needs fixing to reflex actual memory usage. Unfortunately I have this gut feeling that even then Mozilla will be one big fatty...
Jesus hates you. :-)
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There is no K5 cabal.
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Somebody Set Us Up the Mozilla!
1. Point of grammar: it's "set up us" not "set us up"
2. Why are you comparing Mozilla to a bomb?
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've run 0.8 (linux) on a P-166 with 32MB of RAM. It was sluggish, but useable. I wouldn't recommend multiple windows, though.
Yeah, that is a nasty bug. Thanks for posting the fix! (I installed OpenMotif so the libXm thing isn't a problem, and libXt on my system is .6, so that's why I didn't notice anything amiss...)
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News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Hey, it's Mozilla. Even if you had a memory cache for HTTP, it all ends up being swapped to disk anyway when you run out of RAM, right? ;-)
On Windows 98se on my machine, 0.8 is faster than Netscape 4.7 or IE (except for startup time). On Linux, however, 0.8 is much slower than 4.7.
I noticed that the faq is down (blank). I have been using mozilla for over a year now (and at least 8-10mo as primary browser), relying on nightly builds for the latest-gratest.
...M16 probably. I noticed that it was VERY buggy. It now seems to me that the most stable builds of mozilla are the last nightly before a milestone. why? I thought the whole point of the nightly builds was to test out new features, not to wait for a milestone to churn them out... milestones are supposed to be the most stable, not the least!
/. community help me out here?
When 0.8 was announced, I decided to go with it, downloading my first milestone since
I wanted to look in the FAQ for an explanation of when/why milestones are marked for release and what the process is as a whole. Since it isn't in the FAQ, could the
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
I've been using Mozilla as my main browser for quite some time now, I've tried most if not all milestones, and am really happy with 0.8, it simply rocks. On my machine it's reasonably stable (1 crash per 10 hours of use or so) and quite fast (VERY fast machine over here).
What I'd like to see is some commercial support @ plugin developers. Nice to see that Flash works, and some others too, but Mozilla misses many plugins (RealPlayer plugin doesn't work [Linux version], we need QuickTime for Linux anyway). But all in all, it's the best browser I've ever used.
One more complaint, PUT SOME MORE FEATURES INTO THAT DARN NEWS CLIENT! [especially the newsgroup selector, I mean, how in hell can I remember all newsgroups I read, there are 80.000 on my newsserver!)
Are you sure it uses motif? I don't recall it needing it when I installed rp8 on a machine with no motif... But then I have OpenMotif installed (yeah, it's big, but it's free ;-) ) so I may not have noticed a problem if they changed it to using motif recently (the non-motif-having machine install was a while ago whereas my most recent install of rp on this machine was about a week ago).
--
News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
My only complaint isn't about Mozilla, it's about dumbasses that design their web site so that you can't view the content unless you're using a browser they "support". For instance, I went to one site that told me I had to upgrade to a browser that supported frames. This is moronic, they should have sent the content, and put the upgrade message in the "noframes" section.
I guess I'll have to run a proxy to tell the servers that I'm running NS 4.something. Blech!
In the opera browser you can control redirection, opening of referred windows, advertising, whether or not to dump cookies on exit or not, whether to accept them or not, etc. Many servers ping for their sites to redirect later pings based on cookie info. If you've got a firewall going it keeps a record of all the attempted transactions. I have no (technical) idea why, but when I dump cookies on exit I dont get pings from sites I visited on certain servers. When I don't dump them and accept referred logging in the preferences, the next time I open the browser I get continously "browsed"... I have no idea how that works, to be honest with you, but with Netscape or Mozilla the firewall seems over active. However Mozilla has one of the best selective cookie dumpers I've seen. Maybe you can explain all that to me sometimes. I can't see either what one has to do with another. I kept a log. Netscape/Mozilla= 10 pages of firewall log for one day; Opera=1 page: IE5.5= 4 pages.. same days, same times, one week apart.
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
A question for the /. masses:
I'm wondering if there's any hope for browsing the web mouseless under X?
I use Ion as a window manager, and live for the most part in Emacs, but I'm still at a loss when dealing with the web.
Navigator 4.mumble supports rudimentary keyboarding, but I can't select links in the body of a document. I built Mozilla out of an updated ports last night, and tabbing betwee links "sort of" works (their heuristic which chooses where to start is totally broken), but the browsing experience is so unpleasant that it's a move of last resort. Sadly, this is one more area where IE rules over the competition.
I've tried w3 mode, but it's not really good enough. Lynx is of course a possibility, but much of the web is visual and I don't want to give that up just because my hands hurt.
Any ideas?
TIA,
(jfb)
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
However, the *startup* speed is what people see first. They get a bad initial impression, because it takes 4x as long as NS 4.7x to load. And of course, people think IE starts almost instantly because Microsoft thoughtfully preloads most of it at system boot time.
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anyone able to get realplayer plugin working under mozilla? I know it's a motif based plugin.
just wondering.
-- "The evil stops here" -Petr
This memory cache bug is (imho) worth voting for. Other worthwhile bugs: mozilla should not need write-access to binary directory, url box doesn't update after a theme switch, and best of all, XBL is killing babies and german tourists.
As a side note, voting for a bug will add you to the cc list for that bug. So be ready.
All I want is for it not to suck up 120 megs of ram while it's running!!!
It doesn't. The top program provides an inaccurate picture of memory utilization, showing how much RAM each process has access to, not necessarily how much each process owns. For example, Mozilla's threads share memory, but top counts each one separately, inflating Mozilla's apparent memory footprint. If you see six 'mozilla' entries in top, count only the one that's using the most memory for a more accurate picture.
Also, much of the memory that XFree86 is reported to be using is mapped from the video card and used to store pixmaps. (Too bad X11 can't scale pixmaps.)
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
would be just as annoying. What makes you think you're special? Hmm, "Signal11,Signall11,Signa1 11,Signal_11,Signal311,signal ll,Signal 11,Signal11%20,Signa1 ll,Signal Eleven 11,Signa1 l1,Signal 12,Signal seven 11,Signal 1|,SignaI 11,Signal%2011%20..." I don't care if you are GOD_ALMIGHTY (17678), troll and get modded. Nice job contributing to the conversation for a change.
Planning to be moderated ± 1: Bad Pun.
However there is one thing that it's lacking, and that's a "Shop" button.
So make your own. Add a link to http://www.bn.com to your button bar and label it "Shop"
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
OlympicSponsor, I suggest you read my comment properly and then you will see that every single thing I said was entirely legitimate and reasonable. I challenge you to find anything trollish in my post.
Back under your bridge, troll.
You know exactly what to do-
Your kiss, your fingers on my thigh-
You know exactly what to do-
Your kiss, your fingers on my thigh-
I think of little else but you.
I'm suprised they didn't mention Fizzila, the Mozilla OS X client in the map, it's a little trickier than Windows or Classic Mac app writing.
I can just see the programmers saying "Yes, we can make this product twice as fast, it will just take us 18 months of work", then sitting back and playing Quake while Moore's law grinds on.
--
Slashdot monitor for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.
Nice troll.
Like all good trolls, it has a nice mix of true facts, plausible conclusions, and terrible logic.
- Anything that is mozilla based (galeon, etc) is a win for mozilla.
- you've forgotten cross platform issues.
- your cavalier dismissal of standards is naive.
- mozilla will only get better.
Duh, I'm sure CmdrTaco used the Slashcode story editting page to input the story and not Composer. Did you use your editor to input your comment and then ftp some HTML to slashdot? I didn't think so.
"could someone pleaseg ive a decent explanation of why the Mozilla GUI is so sluggish?"
I think it's because 1) because the Mozilla builds are compiled with debugging info, which makes them slower and heavier, and 2) because "premature optimization is the root of all evil, and the Mozilla developers are probably avoiding optimizing Mozilla until they work out most of the bugs, so that the optimization itself doesn't introduce subtle bugs.
Nope. He almost caught me, though. Me, I'd rather not overuse this principle... Keep it for special moments, like, say, a frontpage story!
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...for that road to Q2 might actually hit a dead end next month.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
RE: your sig... it was you who said that wasn't it? HA! And you thought your fooled people posting as an AC.
Also, what was the "Philosophy" behind using an XUL custom themeable GUI instead of native Win/Gtk/Mac widgets?
XML/CSS required that browsers be able to render a set of widgets for XML/CSS documents to use. So the choice was either writing such widgets that could be rendered by Gecko, or developing code to invoke and position the native widgets within the browser window for every platform. The logical answer was writing Gecko-renderable widgets.
So, why not use those same Gecko-renderable widgets that already have to be written for a single XP front end, saving time over developing different FEs using different sets of native widgets for each platform?
The skinning was just serendipity; if you have widgets and their layout specified in a XML-based format, it's very easy to edit and thus very easy to skin.
That is, an XP skinnable UI was easier and faster to implement than separate Win/Gtk/Mac native widget versions.
The page loaded fine, thanks. Using Mozilla 0.8. Nice try, though.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
The original idea behind XUL was to use the layout engine that displays webpages to also display the UI. Because the layout engine runs on multiple platforms, using XUL will developers to write a UI that works on multiple platforms. They could have started with a native UI, but it would have slowed the XUL development. Then again, maybe XUL is not such a good idea? Whichever it is, they have XUL now, and it is starting to become usable.
Basic
True
One question I have for you is "Do you use Mozilla?" and "Have you ever had a bug report to them?" I have done both, and my experience has been that in most situations the organization of the Mozilla developers is quite sophisticated in closing out significant bugs. Whether Microsoft is similiarly efficient is impossible to know, since you can't watch and track bug reports made about IE.
Do I use Mozilla? No, I don't. It's not good enough for me yet. I'm not going to use a product until I can download it, install it with out bother and have it run smoothly. The product that best suits my personal needs on my platform is currently IE. Whether that changes remains to be seen. I was a devoted Netscape user from 1994-2000, but once they brought out the new Netscape last spring, I switched to IE because it worked better.
Like I said in my original post, I'm not dissing open source. I like the development model, for SOME things. The one thing I DON'T like about it is its tendency to take a much longer time to release a product that is the same or better quality than what's already out there. And in that time, the product will lose market share and even though it may be a better product when it finally does get released, it's going to need more marketing muscle to get people to switch from what they already use to the new product.
How to solve this? I don't know, but having strong leadership helps and I don't believe the leadership in many products is strong enough. And from my perspective, it seems that this is true of the Mozilla team. They don't know when to say "no" and are trying to appease everyone who sends in bugs reports or feature requests.
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+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
That's great, but only if you're running Windows or MacOS. Even if M$ did port IE to a real OS, it would probably choke harshly, because it's so intimately twined about the Win32 API.
Ultimately, Mozilla is the only real hope for a complete open-source browsing environment (I just made up that buzzword, of course) that makes sense together. I actually have been known to use it for mail on windows, too, because it handles HTML and other inlines, but doesn't run vbscript fragments.
Mozilla is pretty good right now. It certainly seems to be better than Netscape in all regards (multiple POP accounts anyone?) On Windows, IE kicks its ass in every way, including CSS support, speed, stability, and standards compliance - kind of scary, when you think about the ramifications. But anywhere else, with the possible exception of MacOS which I do not use these days, Mozilla is the champ.
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ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
shouldn't you just point your disk cache to /tmp or /var/tmp/username?
And when you are in the options dialog you cannot minimize it. When it crashes you cant minimize it nor close the window. The task manager fails to kill it. You basically have to reboot, before you bsod- if lucky.
I have to work with W2K all day, and if I could change one thing it'd be to add a window manager.
There is quite a bit of work going on to speed up the mailnews component. Dave Hyatt came up with a new "outliner widget" that will be increasing scrolling and such to NC 4.x speeds.
In case you are interested, see the Mailnews Status page.
According to a recent newsgroup posting, the new branch should be landing in about 2.5 weeks for testing in the nightlies.
*sigh* no one got the joke :/
Ne Quid Nimis - All things in moderation
Currently, one of the most troubling bugs for me is that apparently memory cache isn't implemented for http!
It's not implemented in Mozilla. It's implemented in your file system's disk cache capability. I can't speak for Windows, but Linux uses all RAM that's not used for apps for disk caching.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm a supporter of the Mozilla project, I use it as my primary browser (on windows - on Linux it seems to be a bit of a dog). It rarely crashes and now renders (most smaller) pages very quickly.
I'm glad they are taking their time to build a standards compliant cross-platform browser that will hopefully be easier to upgrade to future standards than the competition.
But I'm REALLY bored of reading about it. I'm bored of constantly hearing trolls who obviously haven't even bothered to use it, let alone understand the technology, slagging it off. And I'm bored of people saying "all I need is a browser, not an email/composer/toaster" (hint, read the fucking install instructions).
Please, Mozilla developers, hurry - not so that you don't lose more market share - just so I don't have to read
from the dead-as-a-dodo dept.
A reader writes: "Mozilla 1.0 has now been delayed by more bugs found in milestone 9.9999"
DILBERT: But what about my poem?
Try Galeon. Or kmeleon. Each is a 'lite' browser based on the gecko rendering engine, i.e. the one in Mozilla. They might not be exactly what you have in mind (you may want all of Mozilla's browsing features, for example), but one of them might be what you want.
This updated roadmap has been on their site for quite a while. Rather stale news. But the main reason I post this message: Mozilla 0.8 rocks! I still have to run Win98, and at this point Mozilla is already more stable than the latest IE (5.1.whatever). Doesn't crash that often. Handles Java scripts much better. Faster, too. Yes, it still has some bugs. I've reported some. You too can help the Mozilla project by trying it and reporting the bugs. We'll be getting the top notch browser, and I'm willing to wait.
Actually, if he was using Mozilla, he did.
Mozilla's text entry widget is implemented using the Composer component.
Long-term plan is to write a special-purpose text entry widget that's a lot smaller and removes the depenency on Composer, but for now it works.
Some browsers such as e.g. lynx can 'shell out' to the editor of your choice for editing text fields. Replace FTP with HTTP, and you've got it.
DNA just wants to be free...
Is that an obtuse Polish joke?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
If you ask me, the developers should just have called the shots as they saw them, and worked to produce a browser that works fast and well. Instead they have a bloated, but oh so 'Standards Compliant', pice of software.
Problem is that Mozilla is not browser. Mozilla is engine for building applications using XUL (think .net).
On Linux, Galeon is a far better choice, and takes the best part of Mozilla, Gecko, for want of anything better.
Unfortunately, Galeon works only for English-speaking users. If your language happens to use character set other than Latin-1, you are out of luck. Galeon also doesn't have other nice features, e.g. cookie/image/form manager (or right-click in Mozilla and Galeon - see?)
On Windows it has to compete with IE, which will always be faster thanks to its deviation from the W3C into the world of sense.
I'm writing this in Mozilla 0.8 on Windows (I'm in work). Why in Mozilla? Because I like it better than IE. It loads itself slower, but renders pages faster. It just feels better (for me).
On the Mac it will have similar problems.
On the Mac, it is already faster than MSIE - especially for Slashdot in nested mode... (In case you don't know, MSIE Macintosh Edition has problem with nested tables - it parses really slllooooowwwwwww).
We're not scare-mongering/This is really happening - Radiohead
This sig intentionally left blank.
I was saying the same thing from M15 to 0.7. 0.8 blew me away, though. Once it's running, it's fast, sleek, usable, and actually _releases_ memory that it grabbed on startup. (go figure that one!)
However, it behaves very differently on some friends' machines which by all rights, are nearly identical. I suspect that some of the remaining bugs are getting picked up on particular configurations and hardware, and it still sucks in those cases.
But quite honestly, moz0.8 is the first time I've been at all excited by the Mozilla project in ages. I actually see it possibly becoming an excellent browser now, instead of a rambling experiment with no end.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
While I like the browser, and even the mail client, it does have some major hurdles to overcome. I'm still waiting for all of the javascript to be completed so I can access my online hockey pool, and I've found that a lot of web sites like espn.com don't render properly, probably due to IE-specific code. These might seem like somewhat minor annoyances, I know, but they are what's keeping NS 4.7x on my computer - and that's a major pain.
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
Galeon *feels* helluvalot faster. And, light on features does mean something - more codes lead to more bugs. Worse if nobody finds the code useful (e.g. XUL at this moment).
And to people who says "XUL will be a useful feature...and what if....do we have to reimplement it again?" - you must all be emacs fans. No thanks. I only want one OS on my computer at a time. By your philosophy, I guess you'll have to throw in a next-generation 3D terrain engine just for that extra "obsolecense-proof" security feel.
By the way, is there a way Galeon can be run without installing Mozilla at all? If there's a clear separation between Mozilla and Gecko then it'd be great.
There are a few major issues to deal with before Mozilla is ready for a final release (in no particular order). These issues have recently received considerable Netscape engineering resources.
A new "outliner-widget" has been created (Thanks to Mozilla diety Dave Hyatt) to take care of mailnews performance. However, implementing it (under the MailNews_Performance_20010208_BRANCH branch) has been a huge undertaking. According to a recent newsgroup posting, the branch should land in around 2.5 weeks (Perhaps March 21st ?). For more info, see the Mailnews status page.
Necko (Mozilla's networking/cache component) is being redesigned as well.
In addition to these projects, the XSLT team plans to land their Transformiix branch by the mozilla 0.9 release, and the porkjockeys team is looking for ways to reduce startup time.
The added development cycle (mozilla 0.8.1) is going to give Mozilla QA 5 more weeks of testing after these changes land. It is these changes that will put Mozilla in a position to fully compete with other browsers.
Personally, I think that this delay is great! Mozilla 1.0 is going to be much more mature because of it.
To speed up your browsing experience, I recommend that you install squid. It speeds up my NS4.7 nicely. (I turn off its internat cache).
[Science] is one of the very few things that raises human life a little above farce and gives it the grace of tragedy.
Mozilla 0.8 loaded that page fine for me (but what a butt-ugly web page!!) and yes, I did have JavaScript turned on. It also refused to read from /dev/zero and /dev/port.
Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations.
What was preventing me before, and what is still very painful, is the lack of romaing access. Oh how I miss it! :(
mh
Good 'ole Pine will do IMAP
Works fine with .8 on W2k too.
The other 2 don't load (duh!) but don't crash it either.
War is necrophilia.
Every memory usage report I have seen shows that Galeon eats roughly as much memory as Mozilla itself. It may be light on features, but in terms of footprint it is just as bloated.
LiveConnect is undoubtedly a hugely powerful feature which allows for great flexibility and programmability of web pages and applications without the need for page-specific downloads. You can get the benifits of the power of the Java language, networking and speed combined with the excellent layout and display capabilities of DHTML/script that provide a very rich user experience on the client side, without having to refresh pages or access dynamic server content.
LiveConnect has been available in one for or another in Netscape browsers from very early on and although not initially documented as being supported in Internet Explorer, it also provides a very high level of compliance and has done from very early on (3.02, i think).
There have been many bug reports made against the Mozilla project concerning the inability to call script from Java, so many in fact that you'd think they'd feel that it was important enough an issue to fix.
It's a shame, 'cos otherwise it's a pretty good effort.
Okay, it's a troll, and I'm compulsive. Let's get that out of the way.
Speaking as a commercial developer, and looking at the complexity of the Mozilla project's goal, the time taken thus far has not been too excessive. If you've tracked the thrashing in Bugzilla, you'll note that their QA is actually much more comprehensive than many private organizations, which means that we are eventually going to get a much stabler browser.
For all those complaining about speed, and bloat, remember that 0.9 was the first of the Optimizations milestones to be released. You may have noticed that the number of bugs from 0.7 (Actually one of the M* releases, which was retroactively named 0.7 for the new scheme.)to 0.8 was much smaller than 0.8 to 0.9, which is directly in step with the fact that they are now ripping out all the unnecessary scaffolding in the code. Regressions are definately to be expected.
Just watching the processes involved, ignoring the possibly excessive scope, the Mozilla project itself is a wonderful example of using simple tool to manage a group. How many of you pro's have looked at a problem report in Vantive, and seen that many well-tempered and politics-neutral comments directly related to the problem?
Weapons of Mass Analysis
Note: I have never used AOL; all their cds go in my recycling and hopefully get turned into something useful... however... If AOL would implement the Mozilla rendering engine across all it's products, it is possible we may still be able to have a web free from browser dependent coding! It's the only way I can see this tide turning from the current state: "Please download IE 5.0 to view our site".
*sigh* no one got the joke :/
Don't worry - I think a fair number did. While the original posting was quietly amusing, the responses here are a complete howler ;-)
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
All I want is for it not to suck up 120 megs of ram while it's running!!! That speed stability thing is good, though, too ;-)
Have a Happy.
Not to denegrate the efforts of the Mozilla coders. Their entire project has been a boon to open source development. But to me it's just the same old featuritis, bloatware that Netscape has been crapping out for years now. Konqueror is where my I'm at for web browsing. Still problems with it to be sure, but the whole desktop integration thing I love. Moz will never be able to do this. It's also snappy and renders nicely. OTOH, I'm not big on plugins and I still use pine for mail. Just need 128bit SSL HTTP and stability.
Mozilla is close, so very close. However there is one thing that it's lacking, and that's a "Shop" button. Frankly I don't see how it can be considered a serious browser unless it has a "Shop" button. They better get cracking on implimenting this vital functionality.
> wish them all the good-will in the world...but let's be realistic here. Q2? That's gotta be a typo.
Or, more likely, you don't know how to tell time, and don't know when Q2 starts and ends.
Ranessin
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Ah, thankyou! I never figured it was an artifcat of running it under ~/local/mozilla. I never bothered to look into it further, but here the answer is :)
The next step is getting it to work correctly on amultu-user system. Without a local plugin registry, it's tough to use the auto-installer.
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Matt
Are you stupid or something? If you don't want news. email etc., why did you bother installing them when the installer gave you the option not to?
I run the installer and actually choose to install only navigator. It is an option button and then I have to click next.
Here's my suggestion. We add another phase to the installer to implement "Purist" mode. This will change the descriptions on the option buttons to
aka Don't bother me with details mode
Seriously. Forget the tarballs and stick with the installer. You will be happier.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
Try .pl = Poland
The greatest thing about work is that I get paid to use the restroom!
mozilla is a despicably bad browser... slow, ugly, buggy
I have been using Mozilla for about 3 months as my main browser. It's pretty good, has some nice features and generally renders everything properly. The only minor exception to this is borders around tables, which it sometimes seems to chop off at the bottom.
My only other grumble is psm, which quite regularly goes off on one, consuming all my memory and cpu time. Most annoying. But I live with these little problems becauses its still a thousand times better than Netscape 4.x.
Hats off to everyone involved. Its getting better by the day.
How come the roadmap looks like a fractal?
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Je t'aime Stéphanie
Sorry, but trolls deliberately add noise to the signal/noise ratio. Things are bad enough on the net with GOOD info, the last thing I want to see is a troll being rewarded because he's posting a useful contribution every ONCE in a while.
Cut the crap and play nice, don't be surprised when people just don't like you because you've spewed garbage in the past.
Later
ErikZ
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
While everyone continues to use software that is in it's 19th beta stage, buggy and unfinished, I can use a very stable commercial product (say, IE for example) that performs well
Not if your computer doesn't have an x86 processor. In that case, you'd need an emulator plus a copy of Windows (USD $320). Even if you are running on an x86, you need a virtualizer ($300) plus Windows. Isn't $600 a bit steep for a web browser? Might as well just pay for Opera.
What's that rule in software development? Something like, adding more members to a project team makes the project later. Or to put it another way, too many cooks in the kitchen...
Spoil the broth. See also The Mythical Man-Month.
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The cache subsystem is being written to improve performance, stability and flexibility. Basically, the old cache sucked. Patience :-)
Gerv
I'm writing this from Mozilla (ironic, eh?) I use it for a web browser, ONLY. I could care less if it had news, email, irc, or an http composer. Get rid of all the extra shit, please!
--
Rereading my reply, I see that I could have worded it somewhat better!
:-)
I meant, of course, that I don't use IE (as you so helpfully suggested) because I don't run Windows
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I just have one tiny problem... I can visit secure sites only as root, on my machine! I dont know why this happens, but everytime I try to visit a secure site using my normal username, mozilla hangs. All my ns4 plugins work fine, except the realplayer launching. (I mention this because it might be related to the secure sites not working). I think its because mozilla is failing to launch psm (which is a seperate application) or /usr/bin/realplay. Has anyone else had this problem? I've been wrestling with it for months...
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python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
What's related is in my copy, and it looks much better than the NS6 version. Maybe you need to add it to the sidebar. Or maybe you need to check the sidebar. WR is in the sidebar now.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
I tried Mozilla 0.8 a few days ago (the last milestone I tried was 0.6 IIRC), and was pleasantly suprised by how much it has improved. Didn't crash once in several hours of use, even when I fed it Java. It even liked my 4.x series plugins[1] (namely Flash, I haven't tested realplayer or acrobat yet), which is a very cool point 'cuz that means there are whole masses of plugins that people use/rely on that won't have to be recoded all in a hurry for the new version.
So all in all: yay Mozilla! Thanks, coder dudes! :-)
[1] easy to do: cp /path/to/4.x/plugins/* /path/to/mozilla/plugins/ worked for me (one other filesystem level oddity was that to get java to work I had to symlink the libjavaplugin_oji.so from ~4 levels deep under (/path/to/mozilla)/plugins/ back to plugins; seems odd that the installer wouldn't do this).
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News for geeks in Austin: www.geekaustin.org
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
If anyone is interested, I've made a few changes to Mozilla that allow
1) The meta key to mean the same thing as the alt key (i.e., meta generates alt), like NS4, or just fix it (meta handling for GTK was broken for GTK). I put it on the bug, but I doubt it will be accepted soon.
2) I restored the native File Picker, i.e., make Mozilla use a nice GTK file selection dialog compared to the XP abdomination.
Slashdot lameness filter won't let me post patches, so email me if you're interested.
It's your lucky day. The browser you're looking for can be found (link to IE).
Some of us aren't as lucky. IE doesn't run on every computer being made today, especially more powerful workstations. (Support for Alpha and other non-Mac RISC machines was dropped back in the NT4 days.) See my previous comment #192 to see the real cost of running IE.
"You mentioned"Tiddly-day."
All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Although the karma system sorta messes things up, in theory, messages shouldn't be moderated down just based on who posted them. Even trolls have useful contributions sometimes.
Could a perl wizard tell us what exactly this linuxnews.pl do, as it looks a little cryptic to me ? Sure, it looks like perl, but...
Cheers
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Of course, that's not to say that I don't like Mozilla. In fact, I make a point of downloading the nightly builds every day :)
PS For those Mozilla enthusiasts in the audience, you may find the daily build comments interesting. There, the page's author lists the various bugs that were fixed in the day's build.
Alex Bischoff
---
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
While everyone continues to use software that is in it's 19th beta stage, buggy and unfinished, I can use a very stable commercial product (say, IE for example) that performs well, does the job correctly and hardly ever crashes. And we have to wait until Q2 (if they're lucky, so really Q1 of next year) for a 1.0 release of Mozilla.
The way I see it, open source projects are meant to be in infinite beta stages (or alpha, depending on the team members). They're never supposed to have a final release. :-) What's that rule in software development? Something like, adding more members to a project team makes the project later. Or to put it another way, too many cooks in the kitchen...
In the open source world, we continue to espouse the benefit of many eyes looking at the code as contributing to a better product. But if those many eyes end up delaying the final product to eternity, what's the real benefit?
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+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
How about a "ignore all future posts from this person" link at the end of each post? It would make the browsing experience so much more pleasant, and trolls like these two could be among the first to be never seen/heard from again.
What's the point of that? I assume that comp-u-geek site has stinger or some other disgusting image on it.
http://www.mozillatest.org%20%[..snip, otherwise lameness filter cuts in..]%20@comp-u-geek.net/
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
But the compilers are getting better and better, and as soon as gcc3.0 is out you can start making free sofware and use the full set of capabilities of C++. That offers so many new design aspects.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
Try using different chromes and see what you get.
Get them here
yadda
Where are you living? Such a huge piece of code can only be more stable and faster with a complete redesign and rewrite, taking all the mistakes into account that were made so far.
I have problems with software that is bloated and creeping without having reached version 1.0.
I don't say they are incompetent, I just say they are unable to make a cut.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
This thing will NEVER be usable in a corporate environment (i.e.- TRUELY replace 4.7x) until it has LDAP support built in! Sure, it'll be great for home use, but w/out LDAP searches in the mail client, it'll still have to run NS 4.7x!)
Trying to live an Open-protocol Life in a Closed-Protocol world (read Exchange)!
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Let me preface this by saying that I'm using Mozilla right now and have been for several months. I love the project and browser and mail client seem pretty nice.
BUT. Q2? Q2?? Since today is 3/2, that means they'd have to have this "1.0" release out in less than 90 days. No. Frigging. Way.
I run Mozilla on an admittedly low-end machine (P5-166). Netscape runs fine, but eventually hogs all my memory (or crashes, or whatever). But Mozilla is butt-slow at basic things like screen-refreshes and pulling up new windows. And the mail client--fuggedaboudit. For crying out loud, the IMAP DELETE command doesn't even work yet.
I wish them all the good-will in the world...but let's be realistic here. Q2? That's gotta be a typo.
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Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
--
I have three machines running Windows (don't ask, it's the result of a semi-failed business): a P-200, a P3-500 and a P3-750. All have 128MB or more. The P3-500 suddenly developed window slowness with one of the updates and it can now take up to 35 seconds to open a new Mozilla window. The P-200 has never had such slowness.
The major reason for this [bloat in Mozilla] is that they have stuck to the W3O standards for rendering web pages.
Quite the opposite. A considerable amount of time has been spent on dealing with invalid markup.
There is no markup to "just draw a line". The closest thing to what you speak is the horizontal rule (HR). It, like any other element is subject to the same box model with padding, borders, and margins. Have you looked at the source for IE's "draw a line" code?
If only they had ignored the W3C, ignored all the conceptual, fancy coding fashions, and just made a fast browser.
Internet Explorer already provides this fuctionality, why would mozilla.org want to make a clone of IE?
What, you mean you didn't find "Ass Blasters 3" to be a moving experience?
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ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Do you really think that, among the other lies and half-truths in your post, that the W3C has specifications for graphics primitives like drawing a line?
I assume you've never heard of SVG, the W3C's "language for describing two-dimensional graphics in XML."
Sprint PCS Free & Clear: More nonsensical than Zero Wing!All your hallucinogen are belong to us.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Not a flame or a troll... could someone please give a decent explanation of why the Mozilla GUI is so sluggish? (Particularly the menus) That seems to be the #1 complaint I always hear.
.8 at work on a Win/PII (500mhz) and at home on Linux/AMD (350mhz) and though the page rendering is acceptable, the GUI is irritatingly sluggish. There's also lots of wierd behavior with multiple browser window openings.
I use Moz
Is it because of the XUL having to render the thing from the custom themes? How does it work?
Also, what was the "Philosophy" behind using an XUL custom themeable GUI instead of native Win/Gtk/Mac widgets? Was is mainly for OS independant "internet appliances"? Or just a need to have "kewl skins" like WinAmp? Wouldn't it have been better at least for now to build it with Win/Gtk/Mac native widget versions and do the XUL/Theming stuff later on? Thanks.
I use galeon as my main browser and I'm using it to write this comment.. this machine has 128meg ram.. opera is the lastest linux version 5.0b6 with ads and qt *statically* built.
mozilla is latest pulled of cvs, compiled with -O2 and no debugging info.
all configured with 1meg of page cache, no disk cache. memory footprint is a snapshot after program bootup and going to the slashdot homepage nothing else.
%mem Vsz Rss
10.4 21112 13392 navigator 4.76
6.4 12768 8288 opera 6.0b6
15.7 26220 20216 galeon 0.10.1
15.9 26036 20376 mozilla
Like I said this is on my machine but basically opera is small and fast.. navigator is, well navigator.. the interesting thing here is that galeon does n't take sufficiently less memory space then mozilla.. There *HAS* to be some pruning that can be done here.. I remember that demo that fitted on a floppy disk.. what happened?
I'd use opera if it was n't for the fact that I prefer gtk.. anyhow I'm sure this will interest some of you..
I don't know the exact story (who knows?) behind the scene, but you seem to have a point here...
The milestones mentioned "embedded" mozilla. I really can't see the (cost sensitive) embedded types springing for 128mb of memory for web-pads and what have you; they're much more likely to go elsewhere for a more svelte browser..
if they really want to make the embedded market happy, they should have the developers use 32mb (or smaller) machines for a few months...
Anyway, I happen to like the flexibility of Mozilla, and prefer it over Galeon any day
And for some reason you seem to believe that IE doesn't apply stylesheets, or do any of the other stuff that complicates Mozillas rendering. Why is that? IE certainly tries to implement the same standards as Mozilla. It's just that it fails miserably in it.
And if they'd "just made a fast browser" they'd be burning in hell once the Next-Big-Thing(tm) comes along, and it takes ages to implement because they didn't have any solid abstractions etc. to implement it on top of.
Anyway, on my machine Mozilla is noticeably faster than Netscape 4.x, and the current build I'm running is more stable too. And for me IE is a non-issue - I refuse to resort to Windows.
The best thing about mozilla is that I can super easily take my bookmarks/cookies across all OS's that I use everyday - Linux/W9x/W2k, and share my email & address books on a server so that no matter what I'm doing, i have access to everything. No other browser apart from maybe opera will do this, and opera has a huge number of rendering problems (opera is easily the fastest though, hey?) Mozilla's biggest problems are speed, and bugs left to kill. Moz was supposed to be the demonstration of how open source will show the world how to write a fast browser.....its not working unfortunately. The coders answer that they still have optimisation to do, so we'll see in the end. I saw a comment somewhere that it was too late to optimize & bug fix, and this person presented themselves as a coder....all I can say about that is that they can't have coded anything of significance before. Most games are optimized by at least 50% in the last 4 months of development , so have a little faith!
Shift-alt A shortcut to select an entire thread of discussions in the mailer to delete it. This feature is in Netscape-mail 4.x, not in Mozilla-mail. And also It would be great that my Netscape-mail 4.x address-book was correctly imported.
Those directory names are randomly generated when Mozilla creates a profile. They are there to provide more security (no way to tell where the profiles are located without a directory listing). I don't believe they are going to be removed any time soon.
BTW, the .slt extension stands for "salt".