Well then, looks like the winner of the Lunar X Prize won't launch in the US, and probably won't start a business here either.
It looks like we will move to Canada. Between things like this and the other ITARds, there's just no reason to do it in the US. I hope the Canadian law isn't as bad as US law.
Note to the other teams though, you will need to follow the law (of all team member jurisdictions.) or you can not win the GLXP money, which is part of why we will not become a GLXP team. We are doing this on our own, in the open. www.openluna.org
Yes, we are just starting, and could use some help in the art/web department.
A good place to buy them cheap.
on
Mars In 3D
·
· Score: 1
Pretty much every Slashdotter who claims their service should be unlimited because the commercial says so should know better especially since so many work in the IT industry. They're using the commercials as their excuse for behavior they know crosses the line of acceptable use.
No, We just expect them to live up to their promise, no more, and certainly no less. There is a very good reason I don't promise "Unlimited service calls" or even "Unlimited pop3 email accounts" in my business. When I say unlimited, I mean it. And expect the same of those who promise it to me.
Just because I invite you to a party with unlimited food and drink doesn't mean you get to move in with me, eventually, you have to go home or I'm going to throw you out.
As you well should. Parties are for a limited time.
If you however take my money for a period based unlimited food/drink service, (like some hotels for example) I expect to be able to sit in that bar all day for that complete period. And to be served everything on the menu, and not be told, "Sorry, even though they are on the menu and listed as unlimited, if you order steak and Scotch then we only serve it from 6:48-6:52, and only a quarter ounce each, then all you get is bread and water other times. Didn't you read the posting hidden in the kitchen?"
Hell, My ISP (Charter Communications) has been quietly blocking Bit Torrent, and wouldn't admit to it when flat out asked, and would rather take the issue all the way to tier three support then admit to it. Their final answer? "There must be something wrong with your cable, you'll have to call service." the only way I found out from them directly, (I already knew after some careful packet sniffing across multiple homes.) was when my company got a business line, and we started using BT to distribute video content.
I get pissed when a company wastes a week of my too short life!
New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada. Hey, Don't forget Nunavut! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut) (From http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Nunavut#Language) "Along with Inuktitut, Inuinnaqtun, English, and French are also official languages."
And if you step outside the larger communities, It's almost exclusively Inuktitut, A very pretty language. All of the signs are in Inuktitut, English and French.
You should go there some time. (So you can really know your own country.) I have, in the spring. It was beautiful, and -35C.
I have the black Al faced one for longer PSs. It was extremely easy to set the water cooling up, and has kept my machine cool even with two extra blocks for the SLI cards and a chipset cooler. Yes it's not sealed, but then again, is that really a big deal? If it WAS sealed I couldn't have added my extra blocks, and this went together so simply, I doubt I would really have noticed the difference.
I just came from NASA Ames research center, (Talk about heavy supercomputing!) and they are heavily water-cooled. Right now they have coolers on each of the processor blocks, and radiators on the backs of the cabinets, but are quickly moving to directly chilling the water. They use quality hoses and fittings, no leakage. The efficiency is so much higher than air, and it makes the operating environment much nicer. (They have people in there regularly swapping out drives tapes, whatever.)
Of COURSE water cooling is what you want to use for any high-performance computing. It's purely a matter of efficiency. (And you can use the hot water elsewhere.)
Damn, I wanted to mod the parent up, but I HAD to respond to this.
You just do. You do because you have to. You do because you want Freedom that bad that no price is too high. When you would give everything for Freedom, you can have Freedom.
Against smart infantry, Tanks are easy. They taught us a dozen different way in the Marines. Missiles are tougher, but so what. You just inflict more personal painful damage to them. It is next to impossible for the Insurgents to loose a war they really want. (There's my excuse for the few that did.) Hell, Look how much damage the Iraqi's are inflicting on the finest fighting force on the Earth today. The only way to win that war will be to either kill everyone, or to hold on until enough generations will have gone by for everyone to have forgotten.
And if the US and Iraq were the same country? (ie. a civil war) The US would be loosing, because the political leaders would be dieing, and the supply lines are short enough that they can be "shared".
When the People Really Want It. They will do whatever they have to. They will suffer any cost to have Freedom. And not a second before, and that's why the US is loosing in Iraq.
And that's why the US is loosing to itself. The people forgot what Freedom is all about, and they'd rather have Brittany and Paris and 'Who wants to make a million/tell the truth/survivor whatever the fuck is polluting their minds today.'
When the People really want Freedom, They'll have it. No matter what the cost.
Until then, they'll have whatever they're allowed...
As someone who has been working on the problem for years, this was my first thought as well - Until I realized one fatal flaw.
No one way street info. This may seem trivial, but it is critical when you consider rout planning and Interstates, because, guess what, every on ramp, off ramp, and side are one way roads. There are also some cities, (Like Denver and Detroit.) and even neighborhoods that would make this dangerously - well bad.
Then there is the issue of specific landmarks, (Like the worlds best Thai restaurant, your dentist or your Midget porn vendor of choice.) These will not be located on the Census maps.
Sorry. I just couldn't come up with a good way to do it but to buy one of the good maps, and then build a system to allow for quick updates...
Two failures and one delay? And one of the failures wasn't that bad? For a brand new company and new rocket tech? Considering how many outright explosions and multiple failures NASA and all others did before they got it right, I'd say they are doing just fine. I bet NASA wishes they had that success rate! It's not like Musk has a whole governments space programs budget to throw at it. (Which is pitifully small BTW.) He is being careful with his money. That sounds wise, and certainly not something I'd be worried about.
Jeesh, It's not like it's Rocket Science to understand it...
That's the magic statement, And if you can't trust them with your ID, What makes them think you can trust them with (after Blockbuster gets done with it) an $80 copy of midget porn that they demand back with a post card.
But of course, renting "Midget Ladies of Lust" was just what they did to test the stolen ID on the way to the BMW dealership, where they really had fun...
An audio version of http://www.nanowrimo.org/? That's perfect. I hope, no pray that some of these go commercial, just to show those bastards in the big industry that we don't need them...
Hell I'm going to start looking through them to look to see if any of them are being sold. If they are decent, I'll buy them...
Now if only I had something more interesting to say. Well, It's a great thing and I think we should all support anything that is independent of the big labels...
Um, Actually, Johann Sebastian Bach http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach and Ludwig van Beethoven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beethoven were sponsored by wealthy patrons, and sold their music. They indeed DID make money, and in many cases a great deal of money. So, Profit was indeed a motivator.
And maybe by the time big pharma gets out of the business, we can get regulations changed to allow for simple natural cures that actually work! Instead we are being force fed (Because in the US anything else is illegal) poison that has more side effects than the original disease! Drugs that don't actually cure, but merely keep you alive, because they are patentable and because treatment makes more money than an honest cure...
And I'm not advocating the total removal of patents and copyrights, I believe creators should be paid for their creations...
As I was reading through the comments, I couldn't find any one thread to reply to, so instead I'll reply to the whole thing.
Why Asteroids instead of Luna? There is no real reason to. We should do all three at once. (Moon, Mars, Asteroids.) Think about it;
Getting to any of them, (and cheaply staying in LEO) will require some baseline technologies; suits, life support systems, food growth, recycling systems, power systems, etc. It's really all the same. The only place where it gets different is in fluid handling (Waste, food, etc.) So, when you develop a suit for the moon, it is also good for LEO or the asteroids. (Mars takes slightly different suits.) They all require cheap lift to orbit. (People can argue for an against heavy lift all they want, but any way you do it, you still need lift.) Much of the equipment to keep people alive for these sorts of missions are all the same! Moon base, Mars exploration, or the belt. The vast majority of this equipment is interchangeable.
And, Be clear on this, since the most expensive part of any such mission is not the fuel and the launch, but the development costs! So, the trick is to maximize the development costs. What's the best way to do that? Stop building one use hardware! If every thing's a prototype, then everything will of course be insanely expensive! Get the economies of scale working for you rather than against you. (I know, way to obvious... Therefor it can not happen in Govt. I'll get to that.)
Also, if you run all three programs simultaneously, you will also get some synergy. Use Lunar H3 to drive the long distance nuclear rockets, saving fuel, time, and a HUGE level of costs. Use Asteroid metals to build the rest with. If you find an ice asteroid, drop a couple on Mars to start the terraforming project, Break them up into smaller pieces and land some on Luna for water. Use Martian food for the whole pile. (It's cheaper to lift it out of a 1/3g gravity well than out of a 1g well, even with all of the other expenses.) All of the projects work together synergistically.
As a complete aside? This is a great place for private industry. Let the Govts fund some of the basic research, then contract with real private industry to actually build the stuff, and allow them to sell the equipment to anyone. (Have space suit will travel?) Look at how far some private industry has gone without Govt help. (Such as Scaled Composites or 4Frontiers Corp http://www.4frontierscorp.com/) Imagine how far they could go with even a little govt spending.
And lastly, As every one who has even looked a little, the NASA budget it trivial in the overall. I think the DOD is spending more per month in Iraq and Afghanistan than NASA gets all year, and for what the "Sub Prime" mortgage fiasco will cost this year alone, we (Private industry) could build a Martian settlement, including the development work! 4Frontiers is working on just that! There has always been problems on Earth, and waiting 'till their solved is insane, because there will always be problems on Earth. We need to get off this rock before it's too late. Am I the only one who noticed that no one could tell for sure that this last meteor wasn't going to hit Mars until a few weeks before it was predicted to (almost) hit? That doesn't give us a lot of time to prepare. Hell, We can't even get a shuttle (30 year old tech!) off that fast...
The time has come and gone, let's get this done now...
(And Yes, This is a big part of what I do for both a hobby and a living...)
Many years ago, Pope John Paul did say that he would be the last true Pope ever. This paints kind of a strange picture on what pope Benndict is doing. (That and he just - looks scary...)
Actually, it's "You're an idiot" but I agree, that is certainly one of the best, Right beside "Kiss my what?!" and "Coffee, Double strong, Double sweet."
Further reading shows that many states have very limited requirements, but most of the training required has absolutely NOTHING to do with any computer science/engineering of any sort. (Although there are many more conventional requirements.) The first most easy answer? If you can't easily jump through their hoops, go find a PI that will hire you part time. Work up some sort of an agreement that means you do his work for him (for a reduced rate), and you use his license for yours (For a small cut if you have to testify). Everyone wins, and you may even get some additional work out of the deal.
Some people may complain about the PI not wanting to put their license on the line, but there will be plenty that will, just to have the new service available to them...
What there really ought to be is a Computer Forensics license. In any case, having the training in chain of custody and proper evidence handling would be worth it...
Slashdot Mirror
No, Last time I used a Borland product was Turbo Pascal. How did it go?
I was. :(
Hangs head in shame...
Well then, looks like the winner of the Lunar X Prize won't launch in the US, and probably won't start a business here either.
It looks like we will move to Canada. Between things like this and the other ITARds, there's just no reason to do it in the US. I hope the Canadian law isn't as bad as US law.
Note to the other teams though, you will need to follow the law (of all team member jurisdictions.) or you can not win the GLXP money, which is part of why we will not become a GLXP team. We are doing this on our own, in the open. www.openluna.org
Yes, we are just starting, and could use some help in the art/web department.
If you go http://www.marssociety.nl/3dbrillen.php
and can read Dutch, (Or don't mind just looking at the pictures?) or don't mind the translators.
I have a pair of the wayfarer look alikes, and they are nice. (But inverting them is - not fun.)
And of course the nice side is you get to support the cause.
E/PO does = Education and Public Outreach. And the data will still be there when they get back, even if the probe isn't.
Yes it does.
I'm just trying some way to pull hitler in to finish it.
And "if Hitler is driving the truck, or Nazism is the cargo, then you get pulled off the road no matter what else is happening."
Or maybe "The ISP exects are even worse that Hitler for tellin ghte truth."?
Maybe? (Gawd, I'm gonna get trolled for that...)
Or even "In Soviet Russia, the ISPs/Bandwidth shape you!"
Forget it, I think I've done enough damage for now...
(Runs, ducking. "Hey, That hurt!")
Pretty much every Slashdotter who claims their service should be unlimited because the commercial says so should know better especially since so many work in the IT industry. They're using the commercials as their excuse for behavior they know crosses the line of acceptable use.
No, We just expect them to live up to their promise, no more, and certainly no less. There is a very good reason I don't promise "Unlimited service calls" or even "Unlimited pop3 email accounts" in my business. When I say unlimited, I mean it. And expect the same of those who promise it to me.
Just because I invite you to a party with unlimited food and drink doesn't mean you get to move in with me, eventually, you have to go home or I'm going to throw you out.
As you well should. Parties are for a limited time.
If you however take my money for a period based unlimited food/drink service, (like some hotels for example) I expect to be able to sit in that bar all day for that complete period. And to be served everything on the menu, and not be told, "Sorry, even though they are on the menu and listed as unlimited, if you order steak and Scotch then we only serve it from 6:48-6:52, and only a quarter ounce each, then all you get is bread and water other times. Didn't you read the posting hidden in the kitchen?"
Hell, My ISP (Charter Communications) has been quietly blocking Bit Torrent, and wouldn't admit to it when flat out asked, and would rather take the issue all the way to tier three support then admit to it. Their final answer? "There must be something wrong with your cable, you'll have to call service." the only way I found out from them directly, (I already knew after some careful packet sniffing across multiple homes.) was when my company got a business line, and we started using BT to distribute video content.
I get pissed when a company wastes a week of my too short life!
Mod Parent up! The only rights you have are the rights you /think/ you have!
(From http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Nunavut#Language) "Along with Inuktitut, Inuinnaqtun, English, and French are also official languages."
And if you step outside the larger communities, It's almost exclusively Inuktitut, A very pretty language. All of the signs are in Inuktitut, English and French.
You should go there some time. (So you can really know your own country.) I have, in the spring. It was beautiful, and -35C.
Hell, I've been using a "Consumer grade" easy to use water cooling system in my desktop for over a year in the form of the Titan Robela (http://www.titan-cd.com/eng/watercase/robela.htm or http://www.inland-products.com/singleproduct.asp?search=accessories&partnum=03011)
I have the black Al faced one for longer PSs. It was extremely easy to set the water cooling up, and has kept my machine cool even with two extra blocks for the SLI cards and a chipset cooler. Yes it's not sealed, but then again, is that really a big deal? If it WAS sealed I couldn't have added my extra blocks, and this went together so simply, I doubt I would really have noticed the difference.
This is almost old news by now...
Y'all are basically idiots.
I just came from NASA Ames research center, (Talk about heavy supercomputing!) and they are heavily water-cooled. Right now they have coolers on each of the processor blocks, and radiators on the backs of the cabinets, but are quickly moving to directly chilling the water.
They use quality hoses and fittings, no leakage.
The efficiency is so much higher than air, and it makes the operating environment much nicer. (They have people in there regularly swapping out drives tapes, whatever.)
Of COURSE water cooling is what you want to use for any high-performance computing. It's purely a matter of efficiency. (And you can use the hot water elsewhere.)
Off topic, /.
What's funny to me is that I just this morning read in http://www.luvrgeeks.com/about that you post on
Then here you are!
Small world I guess.
Damn, I wanted to mod the parent up, but I HAD to respond to this.
You just do. You do because you have to. You do because you want Freedom that bad that no price is too high. When you would give everything for Freedom, you can have Freedom.
Against smart infantry, Tanks are easy. They taught us a dozen different way in the Marines. Missiles are tougher, but so what. You just inflict more personal painful damage to them. It is next to impossible for the Insurgents to loose a war they really want. (There's my excuse for the few that did.) Hell, Look how much damage the Iraqi's are inflicting on the finest fighting force on the Earth today. The only way to win that war will be to either kill everyone, or to hold on until enough generations will have gone by for everyone to have forgotten.
And if the US and Iraq were the same country? (ie. a civil war) The US would be loosing, because the political leaders would be dieing, and the supply lines are short enough that they can be "shared".
When the People Really Want It. They will do whatever they have to. They will suffer any cost to have Freedom. And not a second before, and that's why the US is loosing in Iraq.
And that's why the US is loosing to itself. The people forgot what Freedom is all about, and they'd rather have Brittany and Paris and 'Who wants to make a million/tell the truth/survivor whatever the fuck is polluting their minds today.'
When the People really want Freedom, They'll have it. No matter what the cost.
Until then, they'll have whatever they're allowed...
As someone who has been working on the problem for years, this was my first thought as well - Until I realized one fatal flaw.
No one way street info. This may seem trivial, but it is critical when you consider rout planning and Interstates, because, guess what, every on ramp, off ramp, and side are one way roads. There are also some cities, (Like Denver and Detroit.) and even neighborhoods that would make this dangerously - well bad.
Then there is the issue of specific landmarks, (Like the worlds best Thai restaurant, your dentist or your Midget porn vendor of choice.) These will not be located on the Census maps.
Sorry. I just couldn't come up with a good way to do it but to buy one of the good maps, and then build a system to allow for quick updates...
I'll do that late this year I hope...
Two failures and one delay? And one of the failures wasn't that bad? For a brand new company and new rocket tech? Considering how many outright explosions and multiple failures NASA and all others did before they got it right, I'd say they are doing just fine. I bet NASA wishes they had that success rate!
It's not like Musk has a whole governments space programs budget to throw at it. (Which is pitifully small BTW.) He is being careful with his money. That sounds wise, and certainly not something I'd be worried about.
Jeesh, It's not like it's Rocket Science to understand it...
That's the magic statement, And if you can't trust them with your ID, What makes them think you can trust them with (after Blockbuster gets done with it) an $80 copy of midget porn that they demand back with a post card.
But of course, renting "Midget Ladies of Lust" was just what they did to test the stolen ID on the way to the BMW dealership, where they really had fun...
Hell I'm going to start looking through them to look to see if any of them are being sold. If they are decent, I'll buy them...
Now if only I had something more interesting to say. Well, It's a great thing and I think we should all support anything that is independent of the big labels...
And it should be slashdotted of the net forever, it's one of those damn domain squatters...
BUT other than that, I agree with you...
And maybe by the time big pharma gets out of the business, we can get regulations changed to allow for simple natural cures that actually work! Instead we are being force fed (Because in the US anything else is illegal) poison that has more side effects than the original disease! Drugs that don't actually cure, but merely keep you alive, because they are patentable and because treatment makes more money than an honest cure...
And I'm not advocating the total removal of patents and copyrights, I believe creators should be paid for their creations...
But I'd love to see big pharma go away...
Mostly because I have to live and work with them daily, and I am not known to be a people person...
Getting to any of them, (and cheaply staying in LEO) will require some baseline technologies; suits, life support systems, food growth, recycling systems, power systems, etc. It's really all the same. The only place where it gets different is in fluid handling (Waste, food, etc.) So, when you develop a suit for the moon, it is also good for LEO or the asteroids. (Mars takes slightly different suits.) They all require cheap lift to orbit. (People can argue for an against heavy lift all they want, but any way you do it, you still need lift.) Much of the equipment to keep people alive for these sorts of missions are all the same! Moon base, Mars exploration, or the belt. The vast majority of this equipment is interchangeable.
And, Be clear on this, since the most expensive part of any such mission is not the fuel and the launch, but the development costs! So, the trick is to maximize the development costs. What's the best way to do that? Stop building one use hardware! If every thing's a prototype, then everything will of course be insanely expensive! Get the economies of scale working for you rather than against you. (I know, way to obvious... Therefor it can not happen in Govt. I'll get to that.)
Also, if you run all three programs simultaneously, you will also get some synergy. Use Lunar H3 to drive the long distance nuclear rockets, saving fuel, time, and a HUGE level of costs. Use Asteroid metals to build the rest with. If you find an ice asteroid, drop a couple on Mars to start the terraforming project, Break them up into smaller pieces and land some on Luna for water. Use Martian food for the whole pile. (It's cheaper to lift it out of a 1/3g gravity well than out of a 1g well, even with all of the other expenses.) All of the projects work together synergistically.
As a complete aside? This is a great place for private industry. Let the Govts fund some of the basic research, then contract with real private industry to actually build the stuff, and allow them to sell the equipment to anyone. (Have space suit will travel?) Look at how far some private industry has gone without Govt help. (Such as Scaled Composites or 4Frontiers Corp http://www.4frontierscorp.com/) Imagine how far they could go with even a little govt spending.
And lastly, As every one who has even looked a little, the NASA budget it trivial in the overall. I think the DOD is spending more per month in Iraq and Afghanistan than NASA gets all year, and for what the "Sub Prime" mortgage fiasco will cost this year alone, we (Private industry) could build a Martian settlement, including the development work! 4Frontiers is working on just that! There has always been problems on Earth, and waiting 'till their solved is insane, because there will always be problems on Earth. We need to get off this rock before it's too late. Am I the only one who noticed that no one could tell for sure that this last meteor wasn't going to hit Mars until a few weeks before it was predicted to (almost) hit? That doesn't give us a lot of time to prepare. Hell, We can't even get a shuttle (30 year old tech!) off that fast...
The time has come and gone, let's get this done now... (And Yes, This is a big part of what I do for both a hobby and a living...)
Many years ago, Pope John Paul did say that he would be the last true Pope ever. This paints kind of a strange picture on what pope Benndict is doing. (That and he just - looks scary...)
Actually, it's "You're an idiot" but I agree, that is certainly one of the best, Right beside "Kiss my what?!" and "Coffee, Double strong, Double sweet."
Further reading shows that many states have very limited requirements, but most of the training required has absolutely NOTHING to do with any computer science/engineering of any sort. (Although there are many more conventional requirements.) The first most easy answer? If you can't easily jump through their hoops, go find a PI that will hire you part time. Work up some sort of an agreement that means you do his work for him (for a reduced rate), and you use his license for yours (For a small cut if you have to testify). Everyone wins, and you may even get some additional work out of the deal.
Some people may complain about the PI not wanting to put their license on the line, but there will be plenty that will, just to have the new service available to them...
What there really ought to be is a Computer Forensics license. In any case, having the training in chain of custody and proper evidence handling would be worth it...