"With the single DVD jukebox, the first 800GB is online at one time, for $450. A 750GB HD costs $350. But the next 800GB in DVD costs only $40 - each 4TB costs $200. And there's no limit to how many $50 TBs you can archive, with a sizeable enough closet. The downside is un/loading the jukebox, 200 at a time. But that's archive, "nearline" storage."
But what happens if a DVD gets corrupt? Or scratched? Or, lost?
"Plus, you get a DVD reader and writer. For dealing with the DVDs (and CDs) that still distribute lots of content as a transfer medium. And for those without distributed endpoints to where they can archive data, or insufficient network bandwidth to archive all their data across the WAN frequently enough, DVDs are good and cheap offsite archive repositories. Plus you can burn DVDs that will play in every consumer player, which can connect your data to lots of people without data processing HW. HDs are a cul de sac for data, trapped within the infosystem."
Ok. A DVD Reader and writer. Woohoo. For little bits of data, yeah, ok, DVDs are good. But if you are archiving data, say, lots of data, do they work? What about getting data off bad ones? I've tried getting data off a damaged DVD once. It wasn't pretty. At all.
"DVD archiving isn't really competition to online HD storage. It's complementary, in different use cases, different user environments. There's considerable overlap in their related extremes, but there's a lot of difference that makes leaves the DVD solution worthwhile for many scenarios."
For some, yeah. I use DVD to archive a lot of projects, but at some point, it seems to make sense to consolidate all the DVDs. I think maybe when we can burn 20 gigs a DVD or more, it would make more sense.
BTW, while I'm offering detailed factual analysis of HD vs DVD mass storage, don't throw in your "opinion" that "it's absolutely stupid...". Especially if you're going to offer a disagreement worth considering. Do you want to work together to figure out the real merits in a debate, or do you want to get into an obnoxious pissing contest that few other people will want to wade through? Few people worth teaching will learn anything from such unnecessary conflict. Including ourselves."
Your first "factual analysis" included "Cheap but adequate DVD-R media costs $200 for 1000 discs, about 4TB capacity. And a cheap DVD-R changer jukebox costs under $500, about 800GB per load." which is more expensive than a HD. Then you say it $450? Which is it? I think it's more like $450 (jukebox) + $40 (200 DVDs). Then "How about a pair of those archivers, which fire up every few years just to transfer the aging DVDs to fresh new ones? For another $1000, that's another 5 cycles of DVDs, 800GB per cycle. Another $1000 gets a pair of backup jukeboxes." which, doesn't make sense. If you are just going to "fire then up every few years" why not just use a HD? Or two HDs? Just seems a huge waste of time (burning all the DVDs), and effort (loading/unloading) to get what benefit? To say you have all that neat stuff? How many hours would it take to archive all that stuff? I'm thinking days......week? Two weeks with verification after burn?
I'd just stick to hard drives, and have intervals where you'd check out the data, and every 2 years or so, consolidate data on a newer bigger drive.
I think the little box NAS options, by such compies as Infrant (ReadyNAS NV, which I own), are great. They are small (like shoe box), quite, and run linux. And they are expandable. That is important. You can swap out drives, and expand your RAID. So, the 1 Terrabyte array I have now, when I decide I need more room, I can swap out the disks (one at a time, letting it rebuild), and when I'm done, I can have 2 Terrabytes, perhaps more (Infrant is supposedly going to offer over 2 Terrabyte filesystem next year).
Doesn't really matter what you do, but a NAS or a build your own NAS (PC with Linux) that is RAIDed is a great backup solution. Two would be ideal (one for use, and one for backing the for use one).
How often does that really happen? Really? Got Stats for it? Are DVD's capable of surviving a bolt of lightning? I think Fire would be more probable. Or Flood. But if that was happening, it would be rather easy to disconnect my ReadyNAS NV and take it with me in the car than a huge jukebox DVD thing.
If you really want to be safe, have two NAS devices. One as your main one, for putting stuff on, and the other to make a backup of the NAS device. Or have the NAS backup itself to another drive. There are a number of ways to do it.
Why not just get a NAS that has RAID? That would make more sense. When a disc dies, you can replace it, rebuild your array, and everything is fine. PLUS, you could expand your archive over time.
I think it's absolutely stupid to use a DVD jukebox. Really. Look into a NAS box with RAID.
That is how it is worded and what it sounds like. It sounds like the author is saying that Apple saw, or was inspired by, Vista before Vista came out. I suppose it would be Longhorn that inspired Apple's interface, or so it is implied by the author.
Oh really. Interesting how the "author" of the article switches between calling Vista Vista and Windows. Example: the paragraph that starts "Vista has a similar but improved firewall to Windows XP SP2," and then later on he says "Windows also has a new 'randomization' layer, which slightly changes the memory configuration of every Vista machine to..." Windows? XP? Vista? What? Vista is a machine now? Why not just write it correctly as in "Vista also has a new 'randomization' layer, which slightly changes the memory configuration of every machine to..."
Clearly there is some poor writing in this article. Stop defending it. It sounds like it was written by a sixth grader...maybe that is why you understand it....
No, the way it is worded it implies that Apple has copied Vista. IE: "Apple's Mac OS X offering Vista like graphics for several years." That is the way it is worded. Not Vista offering Mac OS X like graphics, which is clearly what it does, as Apple had a majority of the interface elements in OS X years before Vista.
There are several examples in the comments in the original article's site.
For advertising itself as a "Definitive Guide" is seems rather fluffy. I mean, look at this line:
"Today, however, will still perfectly functional, it is starting to look a little long in the tooth, with Apple's Mac OS X offering Vista like graphics for several years already."
Um, Mac OS X is copying Vista? What? Whoa. Wait. Lets read it slowly. Yep, "offering Vista like graphics for several years now." Wow. So, Apple saw these graphics years ago in Longhorn, and copied them? Really? Bad Apple. Bad.
Yeah. This is a Definitive Guide alright. Not. I've seen a lot better reviews on the net. Even by *gasp* CNET.
Ok. So, if you pick a car that you know runs on Diesel, and you insist on getting gas at an Arco that only sells unleaded, that is vendor lock in?
I think you'd have to be from another planet to assume that another type of MP3 player would work with items you buy off the iTunes store. Or an idiot. Or perhaps both.
Is doing research before you buy something a lost art? Are there really people out there that see something for $200, buy it, and then realize that it won't work with their stuff?
Well, Apple has let you burn Audio CDs of purchases off the iTunes store since the beginning. I don't know where you came up with the idea that you cannot burn a CD.
"The major problem with Ipod is DRM which doesn't allow me to do stuff I should legally have the right to do."
Such as? Lets see, you can burn your purchases to CD. You can have them on multiple computers and iPods. What do you, legally, have the right to do with the songs that you cannot do?
Personally, Sweet Cream Pies 1 was the best out of that bunch. Internal Cumbustion 8 was good, but I thought it lacked feeling. Dude Your Girlfriend is in a Porno 4, to me, seemed more like an episode out of Jessica Simpson's reality show with all the deleted scenes.;-)
Exactly. The whole problem is that we don't have the patience anymore to see things out. Having friends who are serving in Iraq, they write friends weekly about all the good things that happen over there. And some of the bad things (people injured, etc).
Nancy P. is going to be scary. I really think that she will be all about blame, and she will try (and fail) to bring international troops into Iraq. I expect she will demand the Defense Secs resign, and the President will say no, and then the battle between Congress and the President will begin....with the witch hunts and blame game.
How about Debunking that tool, Rob Enderle and his "article". Or articles. Hell, just debunk the fool. I seriously question how this guy makes a living with his totally inaccurate stories.
Being a user of both Windows and Macs, I'd say that I'd always get Apple's hardware. It might be a little more expensive than a build your own machine, but, it will last longer. The PowerMac 9500 I bought in 1996 I just recently retired. But the Windows machine I put together in 1997 got retired in 2000, then then next one was built, and retired in 2003, and the next one was built, and will be retired for a new iMac 20".
The iMac is wonderful machine. Elegant, quiet, fast. Ok, sure, you can't open it up and add in a card. But who does? I can add a firewire/usb2 audio interface, or hard drives.
I dunno. Looking though the last Dell catalog I got, I didn't see anything I'd buy. And the prices aren't all that much greater than Apple's stuff.
Yeah, and Amazon had it listed as an Apple product for a while as well. The original poster was right. The Zune store is not scheduled this year to sell videos. So, unless you want to spend time ripping DVDs, your not going to get videos on it as easily and effectively as an iPod.
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"With the single DVD jukebox, the first 800GB is online at one time, for $450. A 750GB HD costs $350. But the next 800GB in DVD costs only $40 - each 4TB costs $200. And there's no limit to how many $50 TBs you can archive, with a sizeable enough closet. The downside is un/loading the jukebox, 200 at a time. But that's archive, "nearline" storage."
But what happens if a DVD gets corrupt? Or scratched? Or, lost?
"Plus, you get a DVD reader and writer. For dealing with the DVDs (and CDs) that still distribute lots of content as a transfer medium. And for those without distributed endpoints to where they can archive data, or insufficient network bandwidth to archive all their data across the WAN frequently enough, DVDs are good and cheap offsite archive repositories. Plus you can burn DVDs that will play in every consumer player, which can connect your data to lots of people without data processing HW. HDs are a cul de sac for data, trapped within the infosystem."
Ok. A DVD Reader and writer. Woohoo. For little bits of data, yeah, ok, DVDs are good. But if you are archiving data, say, lots of data, do they work? What about getting data off bad ones? I've tried getting data off a damaged DVD once. It wasn't pretty. At all.
"DVD archiving isn't really competition to online HD storage. It's complementary, in different use cases, different user environments. There's considerable overlap in their related extremes, but there's a lot of difference that makes leaves the DVD solution worthwhile for many scenarios."
For some, yeah. I use DVD to archive a lot of projects, but at some point, it seems to make sense to consolidate all the DVDs. I think maybe when we can burn 20 gigs a DVD or more, it would make more sense.
BTW, while I'm offering detailed factual analysis of HD vs DVD mass storage, don't throw in your "opinion" that "it's absolutely stupid...". Especially if you're going to offer a disagreement worth considering. Do you want to work together to figure out the real merits in a debate, or do you want to get into an obnoxious pissing contest that few other people will want to wade through? Few people worth teaching will learn anything from such unnecessary conflict. Including ourselves."
Your first "factual analysis" included "Cheap but adequate DVD-R media costs $200 for 1000 discs, about 4TB capacity. And a cheap DVD-R changer jukebox costs under $500, about 800GB per load." which is more expensive than a HD. Then you say it $450? Which is it? I think it's more like $450 (jukebox) + $40 (200 DVDs). Then "How about a pair of those archivers, which fire up every few years just to transfer the aging DVDs to fresh new ones? For another $1000, that's another 5 cycles of DVDs, 800GB per cycle. Another $1000 gets a pair of backup jukeboxes." which, doesn't make sense. If you are just going to "fire then up every few years" why not just use a HD? Or two HDs? Just seems a huge waste of time (burning all the DVDs), and effort (loading/unloading) to get what benefit? To say you have all that neat stuff? How many hours would it take to archive all that stuff? I'm thinking days......week? Two weeks with verification after burn?
I'd just stick to hard drives, and have intervals where you'd check out the data, and every 2 years or so, consolidate data on a newer bigger drive.
I think the little box NAS options, by such compies as Infrant (ReadyNAS NV, which I own), are great. They are small (like shoe box), quite, and run linux. And they are expandable. That is important. You can swap out drives, and expand your RAID. So, the 1 Terrabyte array I have now, when I decide I need more room, I can swap out the disks (one at a time, letting it rebuild), and when I'm done, I can have 2 Terrabytes, perhaps more (Infrant is supposedly going to offer over 2 Terrabyte filesystem next year).
Doesn't really matter what you do, but a NAS or a build your own NAS (PC with Linux) that is RAIDed is a great backup solution. Two would be ideal (one for use, and one for backing the for use one).
How often does that really happen? Really? Got Stats for it? Are DVD's capable of surviving a bolt of lightning? I think Fire would be more probable. Or Flood. But if that was happening, it would be rather easy to disconnect my ReadyNAS NV and take it with me in the car than a huge jukebox DVD thing.
If you really want to be safe, have two NAS devices. One as your main one, for putting stuff on, and the other to make a backup of the NAS device. Or have the NAS backup itself to another drive. There are a number of ways to do it.
Yeah. Me too! Though a couple have laser rot on them. :-(
But, I really wish I still had the double sided player. It died. I still have a single one though.....
I have some disc in my studio, on the wall, and people always ask about them......
Why not just get a NAS that has RAID? That would make more sense. When a disc dies, you can replace it, rebuild your array, and everything is fine. PLUS, you could expand your archive over time.
I think it's absolutely stupid to use a DVD jukebox. Really. Look into a NAS box with RAID.
Hmmm, I've burned many, many DVDs, and I have had problems with about 2 per 100. I always verify after burning.
That is how it is worded and what it sounds like. It sounds like the author is saying that Apple saw, or was inspired by, Vista before Vista came out. I suppose it would be Longhorn that inspired Apple's interface, or so it is implied by the author.
Clearly there is some poor writing in this article. Stop defending it. It sounds like it was written by a sixth grader...maybe that is why you understand it....
There are several examples in the comments in the original article's site.
Um, Mac OS X is copying Vista? What? Whoa. Wait. Lets read it slowly. Yep, "offering Vista like graphics for several years now." Wow. So, Apple saw these graphics years ago in Longhorn, and copied them? Really? Bad Apple. Bad.
Yeah. This is a Definitive Guide alright. Not. I've seen a lot better reviews on the net. Even by *gasp* CNET.
Ok. So, if you pick a car that you know runs on Diesel, and you insist on getting gas at an Arco that only sells unleaded, that is vendor lock in?
I think you'd have to be from another planet to assume that another type of MP3 player would work with items you buy off the iTunes store. Or an idiot. Or perhaps both.
Is doing research before you buy something a lost art? Are there really people out there that see something for $200, buy it, and then realize that it won't work with their stuff?
Um. No, it is allowed. The new version of iTunes (7) allows this. Go do some research before you open your mouth.
Then WHY did you buy music off the iTunes store to put on a Zen? Why didn't you buy it off MSN, or Napster, or Real?
Stupid. Seriously. You are going to bitch about what, 30-40 songs you bought?
Yeah, and I'm going to complain cause I can't put Unleaded gas in the Diesel powered car I bought.
Seriously. Flawed logic there.
Well, Apple has let you burn Audio CDs of purchases off the iTunes store since the beginning. I don't know where you came up with the idea that you cannot burn a CD.
"The major problem with Ipod is DRM which doesn't allow me to do stuff I should legally have the right to do."
Such as? Lets see, you can burn your purchases to CD. You can have them on multiple computers and iPods. What do you, legally, have the right to do with the songs that you cannot do?
Personally, Sweet Cream Pies 1 was the best out of that bunch. Internal Cumbustion 8 was good, but I thought it lacked feeling. Dude Your Girlfriend is in a Porno 4, to me, seemed more like an episode out of Jessica Simpson's reality show with all the deleted scenes. ;-)
Agreed. I think Rummy hoped the Iraq people would have stood up and participated sooner than they have.
In all, Rummy did pretty good except for the end. He has lasted quite a while compared to other Defense Secs.....
Exactly. The whole problem is that we don't have the patience anymore to see things out. Having friends who are serving in Iraq, they write friends weekly about all the good things that happen over there. And some of the bad things (people injured, etc).
Nancy P. is going to be scary. I really think that she will be all about blame, and she will try (and fail) to bring international troops into Iraq. I expect she will demand the Defense Secs resign, and the President will say no, and then the battle between Congress and the President will begin....with the witch hunts and blame game.
Like we really need more of this.
So, then all those people at MSNBC are not point out lies like they say? I kept wonder when Olbermann would disappear. Damn. Now I'm disappointed.
How about Debunking that tool, Rob Enderle and his "article". Or articles. Hell, just debunk the fool. I seriously question how this guy makes a living with his totally inaccurate stories.
Gee, I wonder why. Could it be the legs? The lips? She's no 6, she's an 11 for sure.
Being a user of both Windows and Macs, I'd say that I'd always get Apple's hardware. It might be a little more expensive than a build your own machine, but, it will last longer. The PowerMac 9500 I bought in 1996 I just recently retired. But the Windows machine I put together in 1997 got retired in 2000, then then next one was built, and retired in 2003, and the next one was built, and will be retired for a new iMac 20".
The iMac is wonderful machine. Elegant, quiet, fast. Ok, sure, you can't open it up and add in a card. But who does? I can add a firewire/usb2 audio interface, or hard drives.
I dunno. Looking though the last Dell catalog I got, I didn't see anything I'd buy. And the prices aren't all that much greater than Apple's stuff.
Yeah, and Amazon had it listed as an Apple product for a while as well. The original poster was right. The Zune store is not scheduled this year to sell videos. So, unless you want to spend time ripping DVDs, your not going to get videos on it as easily and effectively as an iPod.
You have to be an idiot to put your keys in with your iPod.......
Damn it. Indeed he did. Well, throw out the idea then that he will produce good stuff. It will be a deluge of really B movie quality stuff.....