you are getting sleepy . . . . you will do as I say . . . you will turn on your computer . . . you will --oh, damn, you idiot, you're using windows, you will reboot . . .
Now, take out your cuecat . . . scan *all* your cd's [*chrotle*] . . . put it in the fishtank and scan your fish . . .
*ZZT*
\begin{plastic phony voice with excessive plastic surgery and stiff hair}
We interrupt this program to bring you a special report of idiots, believed to belong to a cult, who committed suicide tonight by putting electric devices in fishtanks. In related news, there is a special on exotic sushi at . . .
> I wonder when Microsoft is going to sue over X's use of the word "Windows."
I'm not managing to get all the cobwebs out of the way, but it seems to me that in the late 80's, ms made a big deal about "windows" itself *not* being a trademark, but I forget why.
The Apple II recognized windows on its screen--you poked upper, lower, left, and right boundaries into page 0 (was it addresses 12-15???) to redefine the printing window. Radio Shack also called a portion of their screen (a single character, iirc) used for the speach synthesizer a window.
There were otheres, too; mMicrosoft *couldn't* have made a claim of orininality in the use of "windows" . . .
>Isn't this just a return to the old days of copy protection via
>manual keyword lookup?
Argh. My copy of master of orion works that way, even *with* the cd in the drive (it was never meant for cd; the cd just has a.bat to start things). Once you're well into a game, it asks you to identify a ship type, and gives you a ppage range. It ends the game after three failures--and my wife threw out the manual with the newspaper.
Fortunately, you can give a three-fingered salute when it pops up the thrid one, and take up a few turns back . . .
hawk, who would be seriously annoyed andnever buy another of their games over this if it weren't for the fact that he only paid $2 for it at the dollar store . . .
My father-in-law no longer opens his paper to the sports section, but now starts with the obituaries. After confirming htat he's not there, he goes on with his day . . .
Just how many Corel obituaries are we going to get? I just can't keep up; I'd thought that it was corell waiting to be revived, and KDE/mozilla doing well (kozilla?:)
By tomorrow, perhaps it will be the kde/mozilla project reviving Alan Turning . . .
>or may be you should have been eagle, for this
>eagle-eyed view of yours. they got what they bargained for,
>absolutely. and why not import younger, lower paid workers in their
>place.
what in the world do you mean by "in their place"??? "his place" (or "their places") is a six year period, after which he leaves--his place expires. This is what he signed up to do; at the end of his six years, it simply isn't his place any more.
>kick out the "oldies" and get "greenhorns" to improve the
>bottom line.
"oldies"? This isn't about americans with jobs who have been there many years; it is about foreign workers who come for a designated term. If they're not better off coming here for that term than staying home, noone here is forcing them.
>that's what every real american business should do
>lower down the costs.
Lower down? is there another direction to lower something?:)
Yes, businesses should cut costs where costs are unnecessary. But this is not the same thing as immigration law allowing temporary workers . .
>who cares for the people, they are not americans
>- do they even qualify as people ?
Where in the world is this coming from??? Of course they're people. The retirees living on the profits of teh corporation are also people.
If your concern is that these people would be better off if we changed the rules mid-game, you're walking on *very* dangerous ground. The rule of law is critical to a social environment in which these kinds of jobs even exist. If we suddenly force higher wages during their six year term, corporations will no longer hire people in this category (not to mention the fifth amendment issues). If we suddenly decide that, contrary to the agreement, six years entitles someone to permanent residency, the voting population will be far more hesitant next time around on immigration. Either way, the future people wanting to come here for these jobs get hurt.
>one day you could be on the other side.
on the other side??? I'm not a corporation who hires people; I'm alawyer and economics professor. As a lawyer, I'm saying noone is getting less than tehy bargained for, and as an economicst, that changing the rules mid-game hurts *everyone* except the persons who suddenly get a windfall--the corporationss are hurt, future potential visa workers are hurt, consumers are hurt, and other people in the same trade are hurt.
>watch it as you are flying higher and higher forgetting the
>roots of it all (a joker: humans are the most important). you may get
>yourself shot down or actually shooting at yourself.
yep:) It took getting used to, but I find it wonderfully convenient. I can type things in another window while leaving what I'm interested in up front, and I can click widgets in other windows like you mention. However, I *don't* like the settings that cause windows to come to the front as the mouse crosses; that just drives me nuts . . .
It certainly shouldn't be the default on the mac, and certainly isn't appropriate for new users. However, it *is* something I use all the time
Also, my mouse doesn't move aruond much; I don't have to worry about where it is . . . About the only thing that regularly leads me to mousing around on a regular basis is making graphs with xcircuit and sorting through large quantities of mail (I use the command line for small quantities).
When the third drive died on my powerbook 180, I created a seven floppy boot-set. I had the thing maxed out at 14mb, so I could install system 7.1, word 4 (I'd been using 5, but backtracked), and excel 3, along with my usual utilities, and still have enough room left to work . . .
Of course, given that batteries were only good for 1:40, and that some genious diddn't include a capacitor to back up ram while changing . . .
In fairness, there have been three (3) innovations from microsoft:
1) Altair basic. Face it: there was nothing vaguely similar before this. Yes, there were basic dialects, but writing and marketing to the hobbiest was something new.
2) The usable footnote (1984). In Word 1.0, footnotes on microcomputers became usable for the first time. Prefviously, you had to do it just like a typewriter, and if you changed your text, you had to manually move the footnote. However, there were pagination errors that would sometimes leave a blank half-page or more so that the footnote and pointer would appear on teh same page. I was stunned to ifnd this bug still existed a year ago . . .
3) Bob. Yes, microsoft bob. Innovative, yes, but . . .
As for the windows interface, I have yet to see anything in it that wasn't available in the multifinder (macos 5), introduced in 1987, along with a couple of $20 shareware extensions . . .
These workers got exactly what they bargained for. Having worked here, their skills will be in greater demand when they return home--leading to higher salaries.
Yes, there are crummy employers out there. Maybe we should reform the system to make it easier to sweitch employers mid-visa. But I find the suggerstion that the workers have been wronge to be, at the least, odd.
historical correction: there was a *proposal* to use german, and it never would have flown. Even *if* it had had an actual chance of getting by Congress, it would have been ignored by the states--which at that point had all the power.
In short, there was *never* a real issue about language. Many things have been proposed, including Aaron Burr's proposal to paint the white house black. non-starters all . . .
The 5.25" unit is a wonderful breakthrough, as we no longer need to use 8" winchesters on these desktop microcomputers. However, the OS just isn't up to it.
For a mere $5,000, the revolutionary corvus 5mb drive stores an amazing five *mega*bytes (thats 5,120 K) on your desktop. Unfortunately, dos 3.3 is quite insistant that disks are 143k, so this appears to your Apple as 35 separate disks on the same controller. There are rumors that the upcoming ProDOS will be able to use a disk this size, but this is rank speculation. Other rumors suggest that a revision to the new IBM PC will allow it to use similar units.
With such technology already here, we can only wonder what 1983 will bring. For now, though, we can certainly use this price effective--only $1/kbyte--mass storage.
no, not that it was *at* spearpoint. (Come to think of it, didn't he give in *very* easily at Runnymeade (sp?) Along the lines of, "oh, that's all they want, I"ll sign it and then they'll go away" ?)
The fact that he *did* sign it, and that he did push the common law courts, and that he didn't spend his time in lost-cause crusades like his elder borther.
Kind-of analogous to the spear-point: Clinton's best move in 8 years was to push things past the brink nice and early and bring about a Congress from the other party, saving him from his own policies. [note: this applies to both parties: If Bush wins, his position in history will probably look better if he gets a democratic house]
Generally, campus police do *not* answer to the university, at least not in a police function. In some states, they're actually local deputy sherriff's, in others, they're a branch of the state police.
ANd then there's University of Chicago, a private school with an actual police force--it was part of teh deal that kept it from moving west and merging with Stanford. The local constabulary was famously corrupt at that point, and UC demanded the separate force (paid for by the city and/or county, iirc) as a condition.
I don't think that there's much historical dispute that there *was* an Earl Robin of Loxley who didn't get alon with the king. But as to what he di, that's another matter:)
However, the "evil taxes" he fought were one of the best things that happened for the people anywhere in Europe for a couple of hundred years in either direction. These taxes were tto fund the King's courgts founded by Richard and John's father (whose name I forget. Another Richard?), which were the basis for teh little guy having at least *some* chance. Previously, all matters were heard in baronial courts--so you sue your evil overlord, and he gets to be the judge as well. The courts funded by that tax developed the Common Law of England, which ewe use today in almost all the english speaking countries.
While I'm at it, Richard (the "good" king in the tale) was one of England's worst, but he ameliorated this by being out o fthe country for almost all of his reign, while "evil" Prince (later King) John was probably one of the better ones--he also signed the Magna Carta, albeit at spear point. And Maid Marion? a fictional character from a french poem a centruy later, who somehow left that poem for the greener pastures of a legend about a nobleman turned brigand who stole the people's chances at justice . ..:)
I knew I was in trouble with my oldest at somehting like 18 monthws (2 years? it was early for that much speech). She pronounced both beer and beard as beerd. After I took a drink of my oatmeal stout--one of the stiffer heads you'll ever meets; puts Guinness to shame--she pointed at the foam left behind and giggled, "beard on your beard."
Just swell. not even two (three?) and already cracking puns . . .
I am an attorney, but this is nto legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction.
> In my opinion, and I'm not an attorney,
But I am, and you're correct (though we have, err, radically different opinions on the GPL:)
If Sun is only distributing the source of the drivers, they're safe. If they're distributing drivers as binaries, but include the source to those but not to the tools, they're safe.
[note: this doesn't mean it's a good move on Sun's part; there's a basic biting the hand that feeds you problem here . ..]]
>IMO, nothing wrong has been done, unless Sun is distributing a binary
>copy of the drivers without the source included
And once put in these terms, the objection becomes taht the sun software
*can* be used by someone who is going to commit a violation . . . which,
iirc, has come up around here in a different context:)
I have two-year old identical twins, and *they* showed different personalities even in the first couple of minutes of life.
ANd it's certainly not difference in nurture that has sustained those, we need to look closely much of the time to figure out which is which (at times, I have to hold them at arm's length, as I can't tell in my arms.)
"gals" has largely fallen out of use--I can't come up with a half-dozen people other than myself that use it as all. It has been replaced in common used by "girl," leaving "girl" used in the same sense as both "boy" and "guy"--but I've *never" heard it used where "man" would have been used for an adult female where the corresponding male reference would have been "man," only where "guy" would have beenused.
Slashdot Mirror
SInce the process were also armed, there was also a small (but real) chance that they'd kill one another . . .
Yeah, I suppose so :) It was $1 for the software in jewelcases, and $2 for those with a box :)
I grabbed one of everything that looked even vaguely interesting . . .
\{monotone}
you are getting sleepy . . . . you will do as I say . . . you will turn on your computer . . . you will --oh, damn, you idiot, you're using windows, you will reboot . . .
Now, take out your cuecat . . . scan *all* your cd's [*chrotle*] . . . put it in the fishtank and scan your fish . . .
*ZZT*
\begin{plastic phony voice with excessive plastic surgery and stiff hair}
We interrupt this program to bring you a special report of idiots, believed to belong to a cult, who committed suicide tonight by putting electric devices in fishtanks. In related news, there is a special on exotic sushi at . . .
:)
In other words, the id not only helps them trakck you, but also tells them which magazine they sent it from . . .
hawk
> I wonder when Microsoft is going to sue over X's use of the word "Windows."
I'm not managing to get all the cobwebs out of the way, but it seems to me that in the late 80's, ms made a big deal about "windows" itself *not* being a trademark, but I forget why.
The Apple II recognized windows on its screen--you poked upper, lower, left, and right boundaries into page 0 (was it addresses 12-15???) to redefine the printing window. Radio Shack also called a portion of their screen (a single character, iirc) used for the speach synthesizer a window.
There were otheres, too; mMicrosoft *couldn't* have made a claim of orininality in the use of "windows" . . .
>Isn't this just a return to the old days of copy protection via
>manual keyword lookup?
Argh. My copy of master of orion works that way, even *with* the cd in the drive (it was never meant for cd; the cd just has a
Fortunately, you can give a three-fingered salute when it pops up the thrid one, and take up a few turns back . . .
hawk, who would be seriously annoyed andnever buy another of their games over this if it weren't for the fact that he only paid $2 for it at the dollar store . . .
My father-in-law no longer opens his paper to the sports section, but now starts with the obituaries. After confirming htat he's not there, he goes on with his day . . .
:)
Just how many Corel obituaries are we going to get? I just can't keep up; I'd thought that it was corell waiting to be revived, and KDE/mozilla doing well (kozilla?
By tomorrow, perhaps it will be the kde/mozilla project reviving Alan Turning . . .
>yeah, mister hawk.
Actually, it's doctor, not mister
>or may be you should have been eagle, for this
>eagle-eyed view of yours. they got what they bargained for,
>absolutely. and why not import younger, lower paid workers in their
>place.
what in the world do you mean by "in their place"??? "his place" (or "their places") is a six year period, after which he leaves--his place expires. This is what he signed up to do; at the end of his six years, it simply isn't his place any more.
>kick out the "oldies" and get "greenhorns" to improve the
>bottom line.
"oldies"? This isn't about americans with jobs who have been there many years; it is about foreign workers who come for a designated term. If they're not better off coming here for that term than staying home, noone here is forcing them.
>that's what every real american business should do
>lower down the costs.
Lower down? is there another direction to lower something?
Yes, businesses should cut costs where costs are unnecessary. But this is not the same thing as immigration law allowing temporary workers . .
>who cares for the people, they are not americans
>- do they even qualify as people ?
Where in the world is this coming from??? Of course they're people. The retirees living on the profits of teh corporation are also people.
If your concern is that these people would be better off if we changed the rules mid-game, you're walking on *very* dangerous ground. The rule of law is critical to a social environment in which these kinds of jobs even exist. If we suddenly force higher wages during their six year term, corporations will no longer hire people in this category (not to mention the fifth amendment issues). If we suddenly decide that, contrary to the agreement, six years entitles someone to permanent residency, the voting population will be far more hesitant next time around on immigration. Either way, the future people wanting to come here for these jobs get hurt.
>one day you could be on the other side.
on the other side??? I'm not a corporation who hires people; I'm alawyer and economics professor. As a lawyer, I'm saying noone is getting less than tehy bargained for, and as an economicst, that changing the rules mid-game hurts *everyone* except the persons who suddenly get a windfall--the corporationss are hurt, future potential visa workers are hurt, consumers are hurt, and other people in the same trade are hurt.
>watch it as you are flying higher and higher forgetting the
>roots of it all (a joker: humans are the most important). you may get
>yourself shot down or actually shooting at yourself.
???
>You like the focus to follow the mouse?
:) It took getting used to, but I find it wonderfully convenient. I can type things in another window while leaving what I'm interested in up front, and I can click widgets in other windows like you mention. However, I *don't* like the settings that cause windows to come to the front as the mouse crosses; that just drives me nuts . . .
yep
It certainly shouldn't be the default on the mac, and certainly isn't appropriate for new users. However, it *is* something I use all the time
Also, my mouse doesn't move aruond much; I don't have to worry about where it is . . . About the only thing that regularly leads me to mousing around on a regular basis is making graphs with xcircuit and sorting through large quantities of mail (I use the command line for small quantities).
hawk
> Who the hell is asking you to *switch*?
Reality says one OS on my desk. I need access to all my files, all the time, and when I'm running servers for my students, they need to stay up.
This means that I either run FreeBSD with X, or that I run OSX--running both isn't an option, meaning that either I stay, or get a mac and switch.
hawk
>What on earth for?
1) LyX
2) focus follows mouse
3) moving between windows from the keyboard
I wouldn't consider switchin without *all* of these.
"bargain" as in "deal," "contract," etc., not as in "less than otherwise available" :)
When the third drive died on my powerbook 180, I created a seven floppy boot-set. I had the thing maxed out at 14mb, so I could install system 7.1, word 4 (I'd been using 5, but backtracked), and excel 3, along with my usual utilities, and still have enough room left to work . . .
Of course, given that batteries were only good for 1:40, and that some genious diddn't include a capacitor to back up ram while changing . . .
hawk, who still has the pieces of that machine
In fairness, there have been three (3) innovations from microsoft:
1) Altair basic. Face it: there was nothing vaguely similar before this. Yes, there were basic dialects, but writing and marketing to the hobbiest was something new.
2) The usable footnote (1984). In Word 1.0, footnotes on microcomputers became usable for the first time. Prefviously, you had to do it just like a typewriter, and if you changed your text, you had to manually move the footnote. However, there were pagination errors that would sometimes leave a blank half-page or more so that the footnote and pointer would appear on teh same page. I was stunned to ifnd this bug still existed a year ago . . .
3) Bob. Yes, microsoft bob. Innovative, yes, but . . .
As for the windows interface, I have yet to see anything in it that wasn't available in the multifinder (macos 5), introduced in 1987, along with a couple of $20 shareware extensions . . .
Herr AC has violated Mr. Gates copyright by posting the letter here. Now Bill calls the RIAA, they supoena the slashdot ip records . . .
[duck]
These workers got exactly what they bargained for. Having worked here, their skills will be in greater demand when they return home--leading to higher salaries.
Yes, there are crummy employers out there. Maybe we should reform the system to make it easier to sweitch employers mid-visa. But I find the suggerstion that the workers have been wronge to be, at the least, odd.
hawk, economist at large
historical correction: there was a *proposal* to use german, and it never would have flown. Even *if* it had had an actual chance of getting by Congress, it would have been ignored by the states--which at that point had all the power.
In short, there was *never* a real issue about language. Many things have been proposed, including Aaron Burr's proposal to paint the white house black. non-starters all . . .
hawk
The 5.25" unit is a wonderful breakthrough, as we no longer need to use 8" winchesters on these desktop microcomputers. However, the OS just isn't up to it.
For a mere $5,000, the revolutionary corvus 5mb drive stores an amazing five *mega*bytes (thats 5,120 K) on your desktop. Unfortunately, dos 3.3 is quite insistant that disks are 143k, so this appears to your Apple as 35 separate disks on the same controller. There are rumors that the upcoming ProDOS will be able to use a disk this size, but this is rank speculation. Other rumors suggest that a revision to the new IBM PC will allow it to use similar units.
With such technology already here, we can only wonder what 1983 will bring. For now, though, we can certainly use this price effective--only $1/kbyte--mass storage.
:)
no, not that it was *at* spearpoint. (Come to think of it, didn't he give in *very* easily at Runnymeade (sp?) Along the lines of, "oh, that's all they want, I"ll sign it and then they'll go away" ?)
The fact that he *did* sign it, and that he did push the common law courts, and that he didn't spend his time in lost-cause crusades like his elder borther.
Kind-of analogous to the spear-point: Clinton's best move in 8 years was to push things past the brink nice and early and bring about a Congress from the other party, saving him from his own policies. [note: this applies to both parties: If Bush wins, his position in history will probably look better if he gets a democratic house]
hawk
Generally, campus police do *not* answer to the university, at least not in a police function. In some states, they're actually local deputy sherriff's, in others, they're a branch of the state police.
ANd then there's University of Chicago, a private school with an actual police force--it was part of teh deal that kept it from moving west and merging with Stanford. The local constabulary was famously corrupt at that point, and UC demanded the separate force (paid for by the city and/or county, iirc) as a condition.
I don't think that there's much historical dispute that there *was* an Earl Robin of Loxley who didn't get alon with the king. But as to what he di, that's another matter :)
.:)
However, the "evil taxes" he fought were one of the best things that happened for the people anywhere in Europe for a couple of hundred years in either direction. These taxes were tto fund the King's courgts founded by Richard and John's father (whose name I forget. Another Richard?), which were the basis for teh little guy having at least *some* chance. Previously, all matters were heard in baronial courts--so you sue your evil overlord, and he gets to be the judge as well. The courts funded by that tax developed the Common Law of England, which ewe use today in almost all the english speaking countries.
While I'm at it, Richard (the "good" king in the tale) was one of England's worst, but he ameliorated this by being out o fthe country for almost all of his reign, while "evil" Prince (later King) John was probably one of the better ones--he also signed the Magna Carta, albeit at spear point. And Maid Marion? a fictional character from a french poem a centruy later, who somehow left that poem for the greener pastures of a legend about a nobleman turned brigand who stole the people's chances at justice . .
hawk
I knew I was in trouble with my oldest at somehting like 18 monthws (2 years? it was early for that much speech). She pronounced both beer and beard as beerd. After I took a drink of my oatmeal stout--one of the stiffer heads you'll ever meets; puts Guinness to shame--she pointed at the foam left behind and giggled, "beard on your beard."
Just swell. not even two (three?) and already cracking puns . . .
I am an attorney, but this is nto legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction.
:)
.]]
> In my opinion, and I'm not an attorney,
But I am, and you're correct (though we have, err, radically different opinions on the GPL
If Sun is only distributing the source of the drivers, they're safe. If they're distributing drivers as binaries, but include the source to those but not to the tools, they're safe.
[note: this doesn't mean it's a good move on Sun's part; there's a basic biting the hand that feeds you problem here . .
>IMO, nothing wrong has been done, unless Sun is distributing a binary
:)
>copy of the drivers without the source included
And once put in these terms, the objection becomes taht the sun software
*can* be used by someone who is going to commit a violation . . . which,
iirc, has come up around here in a different context
hawk
I have two-year old identical twins, and *they* showed different personalities even in the first couple of minutes of life.
ANd it's certainly not difference in nurture that has sustained those, we need to look closely much of the time to figure out which is which (at times, I have to hold them at arm's length, as I can't tell in my arms.)
"gals" has largely fallen out of use--I can't come up with a half-dozen people other than myself that use it as all. It has been replaced in common used by "girl," leaving "girl" used in the same sense as both "boy" and "guy"--but I've *never" heard it used where "man" would have been used for an adult female where the corresponding male reference would have been "man," only where "guy" would have beenused.