Personally, I'm not going to get upset about the K-7's performance until there's actual production boards and chips out there for ppl to play with. VIA seem to make pretty good chipsets (he says on his K6-2/300 - I got one a while ago when 300 was fastest:> - on an VIA MVP3 chipset).. be good to see what they can do.
Indeed.. all in all a highly scary concept given Intel's latest bad track record on privacy issues.. 'read your mail sir? . certainly!'.. 'save your credit card details for later use?.. of course!'..
Still, in a free market there's no-one forcing us to change ISPs to Intel. No doubt some sap will do and then whine about it.
I agree with those points you made, C/Net did a good job of dispelling FUD with FACTS. (I was writing a post along those lines too, but netscape died and I lost it - I'm on an HP-UX machine before someone laffs @ Linux.. doesn't happen to me at home)
One thing I was wondering though was in the first question it mentions that one of the benefits of having Linux is being able to 'tweak the source code at your leisure'.. hmm.. that seems like not the sort of thing to mention on the first page - can you say GPL? - especially as in the previous paragraph they mention that 'Linux is a Unix-like, kernel-based, fully protected, multitasking operating system' and then have to explain that if people don't understand.. and they're talking about tweaking source code ?.. hmm..
The dialin problem with Linux opposed to Windows seems guff to me.. I've always had more problems dialing in and maintaining a reliable connection under Windows than Linux. gnomePPP or kppp do a very good job of 'shielding' the user from the nastiness of pppd scripts.
Question 7 says something about making Linux/X/ more like Windows.. but as a counter argument what about pointing out that it's very easy to make it NOT like Windows and something much more pretty. Go use Enlightenment and GNOME and look around e.themes.org and gtk.themes.org if you want evidence of such.
Good points made everywhere else, including that of web serving (Q9), something Linux does amazingly well. The windows information copying tip is a good one too, I've passed that one to newbies I've helped before. The support issue (Q10) altho a thorny one for many Linux users is well handled, they don't just laugh and say 'What support?'.
Well done C|Net.. you can teach ZDNet quite a lot !
I wonder, if COSM is what the v3 project was going to be then multiple modules will be available to run different tasks. With these different modules you could get a computer working on any project you choose, but if it's going to be like the SETI client thing it might require lots of data to be sent VERY regularly and make it almost prohibitive to the home user. (Esp. in England with non-free home dialup internet access) If think you'd have to be careful not to have too many projects requiring lots of data to be moved, that is one of the nice things about the RC5064 project, the data involved is small and basically negligable, unlike a 3MB / night download with SETI.
I have no probs with using Plug 'n' Pray ISA cards under 2.2.x.. my SBAWE64 works fine including midi.. a simple run of 'isapnpconfig' (or is it isapnptool.. can't remember atm) works wonders.
The world will be a better place anyway when ISA is dead and gone.
I wonder how long it will be until we start seeing a mass trend towards cooling systems being incorporated into cases? It will probably be server cases at first of course but anything that starts off with a hobbyist in a garage saying 'Hey !.. Look what a good thing this does!' is bound to increase awareness of it among the chip, m/b and case manufacturers.
A good comment on another page of www.hardocp.com talking about the 'SupaChilla' prototype saying
the SupaChillä gives you the option to beat the performance curve, you've got tomorrow's CPU power today
Maybe that's the way to go along with simply increasing the clock speed.. Either that or use more power efficient processors in the first place.. can you say StrongARM?
>With enough machines working in parallel, the ability to play perfect chess might become possible, and we'll have to find a new game to succeed chess.
Hmm.. Maybe we could just play against fellow humans instead and have the computers play a new game called 'calculate the Nth prime' or 'find patterns in noise a la SETI'.. or something that could be more suitable for lots of processors:)
Oh I agree:).. It'll be interesting to see how it develops and from what I've seen the whole thing will probably split into two areas, the single processor to 8 processor market and then another flavour for 8+ processor systems. With Linux apparently only supporting 4 processors well atm it might be a while yet. Still, progress marches ever onwards.
In an interview with Linus a while back on LinuxWorld he mentioned that there might be forthcoming versions of the kernel that support >8 processors.. if the current kernels don't then how different is the Beowulf project from the standard 'thread' of Linux?.. I'm sure an enlightened/.er will tell us:)
As for the power requirements, maybe some sort of thermocouple could be used to recycle back into electricity all that heat produced by the processors !.. Or even just don't bother with central heating any more.. the processors will do it for you !:D
A multiprocessor machine would be fun, no doubt.. Here's looking forward to a quad K7:)
If 2.3.xx goes the same way as 2.1.x it'll be like Linux 2.3.xxxxx.. with the amount of revisions that were brought out because it was a development version (odd minor version no.). Stable distributions (even minor version no.) are the ones really of any use if you don't like the idea that it might go belly-up during operation (not that I've ever had that btw).
Each to their own I guess. But as mentioned before in this thread, if you don't have anything of dire need for upgrade, don't worry about it.
ppp support isn't compiled into the kernel even though lsmod says the the slhc and ppp modules are loaded.
Er... Anyone else see it ?.. if it's compiled as a module it's not compiled IN to the kernel.. change your config to change the PPP support option to Yes (Y) and not Module (M) and all should be good.
Hmm.. lemme see.. Using the shell program 'splay' I see with ps that it's using only 0.1 % cpu.. that's not too bad on a 300Mhz AMD K6-2, not exactly a processor of gargantuan power. All that slow-down these days means is sloppy code, which shouldn't be supported... but then, noone seemed to pay attention to old winblows doing that..
Slashdot Mirror
Good point, if slightly tastelessly made ...
:> - on an VIA MVP3 chipset) .. be good to see what they can do.
Personally, I'm not going to get upset about the K-7's performance until there's actual production boards and chips out there for ppl to play with. VIA seem to make pretty good chipsets (he says on his K6-2/300 - I got one a while ago when 300 was fastest
Hmm.. was this the Windows version or Linux version ? .. not that I know of any differences between them ..
.. be good to get an opinions from both sides of the coin.
.. if it ever enters the shops / mail order stocks.
Care to write a more formal review of it from the 'end user' viewpoint?
I'd love to be able to go get the Linux version
Indeed.. all in all a highly scary concept given Intel's latest bad track record on privacy issues .. 'read your mail sir? . certainly!' .. 'save your credit card details for later use? .. of course!' ..
Still, in a free market there's no-one forcing us to change ISPs to Intel. No doubt some sap will do and then whine about it.
I agree with those points you made, C/Net did a good job of dispelling FUD with FACTS. (I was writing a post along those lines too, but netscape died and I lost it - I'm on an HP-UX machine before someone laffs @ Linux .. doesn't happen to me at home)
.. hmm.. that seems like not the sort of thing to mention on the first page - can you say GPL? - especially as in the previous paragraph they mention that 'Linux is a Unix-like, kernel-based, fully protected, multitasking operating system' and then have to explain that if people don't understand .. and they're talking about tweaking source code ? .. hmm..
.. but as a counter argument what about pointing out that it's very easy to make it NOT like Windows and something much more pretty. Go use Enlightenment and GNOME and look around e.themes.org and gtk.themes.org if you want evidence of such.
.. you can teach ZDNet quite a lot !
One thing I was wondering though was in the first question it mentions that one of the benefits of having Linux is being able to 'tweak the source code at your leisure'
The dialin problem with Linux opposed to Windows seems guff to me.. I've always had more problems dialing in and maintaining a reliable connection under Windows than Linux. gnomePPP or kppp do a very good job of 'shielding' the user from the nastiness of pppd scripts.
Question 7 says something about making Linux/X/ more like Windows
Good points made everywhere else, including that of web serving (Q9), something Linux does amazingly well. The windows information copying tip is a good one too, I've passed that one to newbies I've helped before. The support issue (Q10) altho a thorny one for many Linux users is well handled, they don't just laugh and say 'What support?'.
Well done C|Net
I wonder, if COSM is what the v3 project was going to be then multiple modules will be available to run different tasks. With these different modules you could get a computer working on any project you choose, but if it's going to be like the SETI client thing it might require lots of data to be sent VERY regularly and make it almost prohibitive to the home user. (Esp. in England with non-free home dialup internet access)
;)
If think you'd have to be careful not to have too many projects requiring lots of data to be moved, that is one of the nice things about the RC5064 project, the data involved is small and basically negligable, unlike a 3MB / night download with SETI.
Just my tuppence worth, yes I'm English
I have no probs with using Plug 'n' Pray ISA cards under 2.2.x .. my SBAWE64 works fine including midi .. a simple run of 'isapnpconfig' (or is it isapnptool .. can't remember atm) works wonders.
The world will be a better place anyway when ISA is dead and gone.
I wonder how long it will be until we start seeing a mass trend towards cooling systems being incorporated into cases? It will probably be server cases at first of course but anything that starts off with a hobbyist in a garage saying 'Hey ! .. Look what a good thing this does!' is bound to increase awareness of it among the chip, m/b and case manufacturers.
A good comment on another page of www.hardocp.com talking about the 'SupaChilla' prototype saying
the SupaChillä gives you the option to beat the performance curve, you've got tomorrow's CPU power today
Maybe that's the way to go along with simply increasing the clock speed.. Either that or use more power efficient processors in the first place.. can you say StrongARM?
>With enough machines working in parallel, the ability to play perfect chess might become possible, and we'll have to find a new game to succeed chess.
.. or something that could be more suitable for lots of processors :)
Hmm.. Maybe we could just play against fellow humans instead and have the computers play a new game called 'calculate the Nth prime' or 'find patterns in noise a la SETI'
Oh I agree :) .. It'll be interesting to see how it develops and from what I've seen the whole thing will probably split into two areas, the single processor to 8 processor market and then another flavour for 8+ processor systems. With Linux apparently only supporting 4 processors well atm it might be a while yet. Still, progress marches ever onwards.
In an interview with Linus a while back on LinuxWorld he mentioned that there might be forthcoming versions of the kernel that support >8 processors.. if the current kernels don't then how different is the Beowulf project from the standard 'thread' of Linux? .. I'm sure an enlightened /.er will tell us :)
.. Or even just don't bother with central heating any more .. the processors will do it for you ! :D
.. Here's looking forward to a quad K7 :)
As for the power requirements, maybe some sort of thermocouple could be used to recycle back into electricity all that heat produced by the processors !
A multiprocessor machine would be fun, no doubt
Hmm.. can you say 'patch file' ? :)
If 2.3.xx goes the same way as 2.1.x it'll be like Linux 2.3.xxxxx .. with the amount of revisions that were brought out because it was a development version (odd minor version no.). Stable distributions (even minor version no.) are the ones really of any use if you don't like the idea that it might go belly-up during operation (not that I've ever had that btw).
Each to their own I guess. But as mentioned before in this thread, if you don't have anything of dire need for upgrade, don't worry about it.
ppp support isn't compiled into the kernel even though lsmod says the the slhc and ppp modules are loaded.
.. if it's compiled as a module it's not compiled IN to the kernel .. change your config to change the PPP support option to Yes (Y) and not Module (M) and all should be good.
Er... Anyone else see it ?
Hmm.. lemme see .. Using the shell program 'splay' I see with ps that it's using only 0.1 % cpu .. that's not too bad on a 300Mhz AMD K6-2, not exactly a processor of gargantuan power.
All that slow-down these days means is sloppy code, which shouldn't be supported... but then, noone seemed to pay attention to old winblows doing that..
Sounds like someone passed it through pico and it put it's lil dollar signs in for long lines. Surely you can work it out tho, yes ? :)