The headless box question has come up several times on OOoForum.org and I've answered it there. (Macros and API section.) In short, you can either try launching OOo with a -headless option. Or use an X server that draws to a bitmap in memory. VNC server is such an X server. It has the additional property that you can connect to it using a remote VNC viewer to see what the pixels currently look like. This type of X server requires no particular physical display hardware.
The headless box. Run soffice -help to get a list of command line options. Or go
here
to see a list of command line options. On Windows running soffice -help brings up a window showing command line options.
OOo can be programmed from Basic, Java, and Python. I have done all three. On Windows, you can use any Windows Automatation language, such as Visual Basic, Microsoft Visual FoxPro, Delphi. I personally have used Visual FoxPro to script OOo. Someone on OOoForum has used Ruby on Windows to script OOo.
The API has a steep learning curve, but it is very powerful and capable. I have run a
java
program that can be run on one computer, and connect to an OOo running on another computer to create drawings of mazes. The two computers don't have to be running the same OS. Or you can run both the java program and OOo on the same computer.
If you download the SDK, there is a Java example called DocumentConverter.java. There is also a document converter Servlet in the SDK examples.
Finally, go hang out on OOoForum.org in the Macro's and API section. I frequent that and answer a lot of questioons and post code fragments and examples there.
If they've got probable cause, they can do just about anything. If you've murdered someone, I want the government to be able to find out how long it takes for you to shit if it will help them any.
We should just give the FBI all possible power. After all, they are above reproach. They would never abuse the system anymore.
How about "Get Rich by Publishing Albums, not Creating Them"?
There are other fun games you forgot about.
Today children, we're going to form a price fixing cartel. Buy custom made legislation. Usurp government law enforcment authority. Get infinite copyright extensions to ensure that evil pirates don't get to enjoy old 1925 B&W Micky Mouse cartoons for -- gasp! -- free!
Then, after recess we will play: let's make sure we can "trust" someone else's computer.
Can anyone spell Cartel? (Well not on slashdot.) Does anyone know how a cartel works? In order to play the game, we need either a cartel or a monopoly in order to engage in what is called price fixing. In order to extract what is called "monopoly rents". Okay, Jane, Fred, and Sam, you three will form a group over here with the goal of.....
I do not know of a PHP bridge to UNO. There is no reason, in theory, why one could not be developed.
On the other hand, from PHP you could execute Python scripts, Java programs, or do an XML-RPC type function call to a running Python or Java based service on the same or different machine.
For example, suppose your web program wanted to accept an Excel spreadsheet in order to process some data from it. You wanted to use OOo's excellent ability to decipher Excel into something you can deal with.
One approach is that you make an RPC or SOAP call to another daemon (in Java or Python) which then uses OOo to open the Excel doc and re-save it in some more accessible form. (Maybe just a plain OOo document, which is just zipped XML.) Multiple web service threads calling the Excel-to-OOo converter process would need to be queued up within the converter service, since you can only call OOo to convert one doc at a time.
Another general approach, a batch approach, is that the web page merely accepts the Excel submission and then returns a "Thank you for submitting your crap to us." message on the web page. The Excel file is just saved into some submission folder. A seperate process is awakened (I'm not specifying how, maybe by the PHP page?) and processes each Excel file in turn. The processing could consist of opening the Excel doc in OOo, and directly accessing the contents of the cells via. OOo's UNO api, and then updating some database records. If there are problems with the submitted spreadsheet, a response can be e-mailed back to the submitter.
Similarly you could build a web page that offers a service of turning Word Docs into PDF's, or other formats, based on OOo. Go to the OOoMacros.org site and see the Document Converter I wrote last weekend. (Just a macro driven wizard-like front end to using a small subset of OOo's import/export filters.)
I'll tell you who cares. If you were trying to learn to program OOo which has a non-trivial API, then you might care. My experience on OOoForum suggests that people care very much about having working example programs. You might notice that the folder the links led to were titled "Examples".
When I first started learning OOo's API, there was a scarcity of examples and documentation. It was very difficult to learn. I frequent OOoForum.org and spend a great deal of time answering questions, providing working code snippets to perform useful -- gasp -- business tasks. I figure the more people who learn to program OOo, the more examples there are, the more documentation and HOWTO's are written, the more successful OOo will become.
One of the recognized values in MS Office is the automation. The ability to build end-to-end automated business systems using the office components.
Obviously, all this technology doesn't exist for our personal amusement. It all developed around the needs of business and the military.
At least the military was not so short sighted that they would invest in the development of computers, and other basic research like DARPA, or the Internet. Much of business, as your post so clearly illustrates, are only focused on the immediate gratification of profits. Blind to the several intermediate steps it takes to get to a larger goal.
Of course someone who just uses free software to help themselves profit with no interest in contributing to a community, probably wouldn't care.
In all honesty... the difference between XML and CSV files really isnt that signifigant.
Um..., wrong.
Where do I even begin with the problems with CSV?
First, I suppose, no two vendors even agree what CSV is other than it has something to do with commas. Are values enclosed in quotes? Single or double? What about if a quote is in a value? No quotes? Okay, then what about if a comma appears in a value? Use an escape character? Which one? There are different conventions for escaping quotes. Suppose the value I want to enclose is 12" Drill (i.e. twelve inch drill), an inventory item.
"12"" Drill", "AX-1234"
Or maybe...
"12\" Drill", "AX-1234"
Next, CSV only supports "flat" data. A table. With XML, I can send you not only a header record, but detail as well. I can send you a bunch of Purchase Orders. Each PO has header fields like PO Number, Delivery Date, Vendor ID, but also has detail lines such as the order lines. Try that in CSV without having to come up with some kludge like a record type indicator and re-using fields.
Once you learn how to do it, it is definitely possible from, say, a Java program to connect to a running OOo (OpenOffice.org==OOo) make it open a document and re-save it in Word format. You can even make OOo do this without flashing anything on the screen.
There is a definite learning curve. You need to learn Uno.
IMHO, despite the learning, this would be way easier than trying to extract the parts of code you need from OOo and building a "converter" program. Maybe I say this because I have spent the time learning Uno and can now program OOo functionality from multiple languages, and how to integrate it into a web server like this seems obvious to me.
I have personally programmed OOo to do things from: OOo-Basic, Java, Python and MS Visual FoxPro. I know from postings from others that it is most definitely possible to use Delphi and VB.
Just as an example of what can be done, I built a Maze generator in java. You can run the maze generator on a different computer. Even a different OS. It connects to a running OOo, and then creates a multi page drawing of complex mazes. (You can get it at www.OOoMacros.org or at www.OOoExtras.org.)
Yeah, Mr. Customer. You shouldn't focus on the price, because ours is high.
You should focus on the fact that you're buying the Microsoft name.
That means Quality. If you buy our software, you will be getting the level of quality, robustness, reliability, scalability, security and technical support that you've come to expect from Microsoft.
It's up on gross speculation and market maker playing around with the valuation- it's nothing more than a bubble like Enron or WorldCom, and it's going to implode just like them soon enough.
Even at $19, SCOX is trading at a market cap of only $250 million. Even if we assume that the only thing of value is the company's possible billion dollar bonanza from IBM, this would hint that the market is pricing in only a 25% possibility of winning.
Um, if SCO wins, then they get tripple damages, or $3 Billion. This would hint the market is pricing an 8.33% possibility of winning.
The Java ones may not, but then, they are not the ones that would have buffer overflows. (Not that they couldn't suffer from other programming flaws, such as allowing command injection via. a field.) How many Java servers on Linux run as root? I don't even know of one.
I frequent OOoForum and am constantly answering questions about how to write macros. I post working examples, and code fragments. A fair amount of my work, including my Draw Power Tools, are on OOoMacros.org.
See my Draw Power Tools. Try it. You'll like it.:-) I've also written a number of "Stupid OpenOffice Tricks". For example, one is a working Calculator implemented as an OOo Drawing. It is a drawing of a calculator display and buttons, but it actually works. Another one is a drawing of a working digital clock display. Another one is Bouncing Balls.
Yes, but that is just a social engineering problem.
And I've written stuff that people want to open. This weekend, I'm building a batch document conversion program. It can convert a batch of documents from any supported OOo input type into any other supported OOo output type. It will have an AutoPilot like interface. People want, like and need tools like this.
The very definition of a trojan horse is something that you think you want, but it contains a secret inside that you did not know of. Since you don't know, you let it inside of the city gate. In the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping, the invading army comes pouring out and begins executing.
From what I see so far, based on my experience on OOoForum, I don't think that many people who would write an OOo macro virus are capable of writing one. There are a few who could. (I could.) But so far, I'm not worried about OOo macro viruses.
Since I release my macros as open source, of course, anyone can see what they do. And I put my name on them.
You mean, what products will be offered to allow malicious hackers to gain easy access to our GNU/Linux systems?
I regret to inform you that it is definitely possible to write macros, even in Basic, for OpenOffice.org or StarOffice that can compromise a system. And I don't just mean macro viruses. I was just about to describe how such a thing could be accomplished, but I think I will stop here.
As you can probably tell from a few of my other posts in this discussion, I am a big fan of OOo. I have become fascinated with the programmability of OOo. I have spent some months now writing macros, java programs, etc. for OOo and studying it's API.
Back in the late 80's (yes, 80's, not 90's) there was this story I read in the trade rags. (I'm going to change a few terms to make it easier to read, and then I'll disclose the real terms I substituted out.)
There was an interview with a secretary. She had gotten a new computer. She was thrilled with how much more productive she was with it over her old office equipment, typewriter, etc. She could write letters and memos. She could correct mistakes much faster and easier. She could put pictures into memos and letters. She could get the eraser tool and easily correct spelling or typos.
What was this fantastic new word processor she was usiing?
The GIMP.
Now we might laugh that this is not the best tool for use as a word processor.
But what are the parallels between this amusing story and replacing everyone's office tool with WordPad? It seems like you could give people OpenOffice.org for free, no license problems. Powerful software. Lots of resources available (see another post I made in this discussion). Third party books. Training, etc. Also a commercial counterpart, StarOffice, if you want commercial.
I just can't see how anyone could not think that OpenOffice.org is ideal for school settings, especially elementary, and especially if what you describe is actually true.
Finally, are you so sure that people didn't covertly install their own software after you removed all the useful tools?
(In actuality, the story was about a secretary using a new Mac, and instead of The GIMP, it was obviously MacPaint she was so happy with.)
OpenOffice.org
is well known, has third party books available, and third party training. If you want a commercial counterpart, there is StarOffice. Seems to me like the best of both worlds.
There is one major feature of OpenOffice.org and StarOffice that don't seem to get as much play as they should in a forum like Slashdot.
It is programmable in Basic, Java, Python. If you install the
scripting framework
then is is programmable in BeanShell (i.e. interactive Java), JavaScript, and others in the future.
The OOo document format is
well documented
. XML in a Zip file. The DTD is available. KDE has announced that KOffice will be standardizing on the OpenOffice.org document format. So in theory, a Windows user running SO or OOo could exchange documents with a Linux user running KOffice. (Not that both OOo and SO don't also run on Linux.)
Developer documentation is readily available, and also a large downloadable SDK. Third parties can develop new components that run within and seemlessly integrate into OOo or SO.
I have personally taken an interest in OOo and written
a Java program
(and
other tools
)
The java program draws Mazes on a running copy of OOo, but the java program can be run on a different computer, over the net. (Win -> Linux, Linux -> Win, etc.)
Slashdot Mirror
Someone on OOoForum had posted this link to some nice templates. I don't know if this set has made it over to OOoExtras.org yet.
The headless box question has come up several times on OOoForum.org and I've answered it there. (Macros and API section.) In short, you can either try launching OOo with a -headless option. Or use an X server that draws to a bitmap in memory. VNC server is such an X server. It has the additional property that you can connect to it using a remote VNC viewer to see what the pixels currently look like. This type of X server requires no particular physical display hardware.
There are two issues here.
The headless box. Run soffice -help to get a list of command line options. Or go here to see a list of command line options. On Windows running soffice -help brings up a window showing command line options.
OOo can be programmed from Basic, Java, and Python. I have done all three. On Windows, you can use any Windows Automatation language, such as Visual Basic, Microsoft Visual FoxPro, Delphi. I personally have used Visual FoxPro to script OOo. Someone on OOoForum has used Ruby on Windows to script OOo.
The API has a steep learning curve, but it is very powerful and capable. I have run a java program that can be run on one computer, and connect to an OOo running on another computer to create drawings of mazes. The two computers don't have to be running the same OS. Or you can run both the java program and OOo on the same computer.
If you download the SDK, there is a Java example called DocumentConverter.java. There is also a document converter Servlet in the SDK examples.
Here are a few places to start.
Deloper's Guide
Online API reference
OOo Developer
api.openoffice.org
udk.openoffice.org
Software Developer's Kit
Finally, go hang out on OOoForum.org in the Macro's and API section. I frequent that and answer a lot of questioons and post code fragments and examples there.
If they've got probable cause, they can do just about anything. If you've murdered someone, I want the government to be able to find out how long it takes for you to shit if it will help them any.
We should just give the FBI all possible power. After all, they are above reproach. They would never abuse the system anymore.
How about "Get Rich by Publishing Albums, not Creating Them"?
There are other fun games you forgot about.
Today children, we're going to form a price fixing cartel. Buy custom made legislation. Usurp government law enforcment authority. Get infinite copyright extensions to ensure that evil pirates don't get to enjoy old 1925 B&W Micky Mouse cartoons for -- gasp! -- free!
Then, after recess we will play: let's make sure we can "trust" someone else's computer.
Can anyone spell Cartel? (Well not on slashdot.) Does anyone know how a cartel works? In order to play the game, we need either a cartel or a monopoly in order to engage in what is called price fixing. In order to extract what is called "monopoly rents". Okay, Jane, Fred, and Sam, you three will form a group over here with the goal of.....
Etc., etc.
I do not know of a PHP bridge to UNO. There is no reason, in theory, why one could not be developed.
On the other hand, from PHP you could execute Python scripts, Java programs, or do an XML-RPC type function call to a running Python or Java based service on the same or different machine.
For example, suppose your web program wanted to accept an Excel spreadsheet in order to process some data from it. You wanted to use OOo's excellent ability to decipher Excel into something you can deal with.
One approach is that you make an RPC or SOAP call to another daemon (in Java or Python) which then uses OOo to open the Excel doc and re-save it in some more accessible form. (Maybe just a plain OOo document, which is just zipped XML.) Multiple web service threads calling the Excel-to-OOo converter process would need to be queued up within the converter service, since you can only call OOo to convert one doc at a time.
Another general approach, a batch approach, is that the web page merely accepts the Excel submission and then returns a "Thank you for submitting your crap to us." message on the web page. The Excel file is just saved into some submission folder. A seperate process is awakened (I'm not specifying how, maybe by the PHP page?) and processes each Excel file in turn. The processing could consist of opening the Excel doc in OOo, and directly accessing the contents of the cells via. OOo's UNO api, and then updating some database records. If there are problems with the submitted spreadsheet, a response can be e-mailed back to the submitter.
Similarly you could build a web page that offers a service of turning Word Docs into PDF's, or other formats, based on OOo. Go to the OOoMacros.org site and see the Document Converter I wrote last weekend. (Just a macro driven wizard-like front end to using a small subset of OOo's import/export filters.)
I'll tell you who cares. If you were trying to learn to program OOo which has a non-trivial API, then you might care. My experience on OOoForum suggests that people care very much about having working example programs. You might notice that the folder the links led to were titled "Examples".
When I first started learning OOo's API, there was a scarcity of examples and documentation. It was very difficult to learn. I frequent OOoForum.org and spend a great deal of time answering questions, providing working code snippets to perform useful -- gasp -- business tasks. I figure the more people who learn to program OOo, the more examples there are, the more documentation and HOWTO's are written, the more successful OOo will become.
One of the recognized values in MS Office is the automation. The ability to build end-to-end automated business systems using the office components.
Obviously, all this technology doesn't exist for our personal amusement. It all developed around the needs of business and the military.
At least the military was not so short sighted that they would invest in the development of computers, and other basic research like DARPA, or the Internet. Much of business, as your post so clearly illustrates, are only focused on the immediate gratification of profits. Blind to the several intermediate steps it takes to get to a larger goal.
Of course someone who just uses free software to help themselves profit with no interest in contributing to a community, probably wouldn't care.
In all honesty... the difference between XML and CSV files really isnt that signifigant.
Um..., wrong.
Where do I even begin with the problems with CSV?
First, I suppose, no two vendors even agree what CSV is other than it has something to do with commas. Are values enclosed in quotes? Single or double? What about if a quote is in a value? No quotes? Okay, then what about if a comma appears in a value? Use an escape character? Which one? There are different conventions for escaping quotes. Suppose the value I want to enclose is 12" Drill (i.e. twelve inch drill), an inventory item.
"12"" Drill", "AX-1234"
Or maybe...
"12\" Drill", "AX-1234"
Next, CSV only supports "flat" data. A table. With XML, I can send you not only a header record, but detail as well. I can send you a bunch of Purchase Orders. Each PO has header fields like PO Number, Delivery Date, Vendor ID, but also has detail lines such as the order lines. Try that in CSV without having to come up with some kludge like a record type indicator and re-using fields.
Got OpenOffice.org? Want to see something more amusing than boring business reports?
Well, I've programmed a working Digital Clock and also a Calculator as an OOo Drawing.
See here: Digital Clock and Calculator .
For something completely different see this.
Danny's Draw Power Tools .
Once you learn how to do it, it is definitely possible from, say, a Java program to connect to a running OOo (OpenOffice.org==OOo) make it open a document and re-save it in Word format. You can even make OOo do this without flashing anything on the screen.
There is a definite learning curve. You need to learn Uno.
IMHO, despite the learning, this would be way easier than trying to extract the parts of code you need from OOo and building a "converter" program. Maybe I say this because I have spent the time learning Uno and can now program OOo functionality from multiple languages, and how to integrate it into a web server like this seems obvious to me.
I have personally programmed OOo to do things from: OOo-Basic, Java, Python and MS Visual FoxPro. I know from postings from others that it is most definitely possible to use Delphi and VB.
Just as an example of what can be done, I built a Maze generator in java. You can run the maze generator on a different computer. Even a different OS. It connects to a running OOo, and then creates a multi page drawing of complex mazes. (You can get it at www.OOoMacros.org or at www.OOoExtras.org.)
Yeah, Mr. Customer. You shouldn't focus on the price, because ours is high.
You should focus on the fact that you're buying the Microsoft name.
That means Quality. If you buy our software, you will be getting the level of quality, robustness, reliability, scalability, security and technical support that you've come to expect from Microsoft.
Trademarks don't die.
...for thine is the Copyright and the Patent and the Trademark, forever and ever. Amen.
Soon you'll be able to say...
It's up on gross speculation and market maker playing around with the valuation- it's nothing more than a bubble like Enron or WorldCom, and it's going to implode just like them soon enough.
But will people end up going to jail?
Even at $19, SCOX is trading at a market cap of only $250 million. Even if we assume that the only thing of value is the company's possible billion dollar bonanza from IBM, this would hint that the market is pricing in only a 25% possibility of winning.
Um, if SCO wins, then they get tripple damages, or $3 Billion. This would hint the market is pricing an 8.33% possibility of winning.
The C servers so this.
The Java ones may not, but then, they are not the ones that would have buffer overflows. (Not that they couldn't suffer from other programming flaws, such as allowing command injection via. a field.) How many Java servers on Linux run as root? I don't even know of one.
I frequent OOoForum and am constantly answering questions about how to write macros. I post working examples, and code fragments. A fair amount of my work, including my Draw Power Tools, are on OOoMacros.org.
:-) I've also written a number of "Stupid OpenOffice Tricks". For example, one is a working Calculator implemented as an OOo Drawing. It is a drawing of a calculator display and buttons, but it actually works. Another one is a drawing of a working digital clock display. Another one is Bouncing Balls.
See my Draw Power Tools. Try it. You'll like it.
Yes, but that is just a social engineering problem.
And I've written stuff that people want to open. This weekend, I'm building a batch document conversion program. It can convert a batch of documents from any supported OOo input type into any other supported OOo output type. It will have an AutoPilot like interface. People want, like and need tools like this.
The very definition of a trojan horse is something that you think you want, but it contains a secret inside that you did not know of. Since you don't know, you let it inside of the city gate. In the middle of the night when everyone is sleeping, the invading army comes pouring out and begins executing.
From what I see so far, based on my experience on OOoForum, I don't think that many people who would write an OOo macro virus are capable of writing one. There are a few who could. (I could.) But so far, I'm not worried about OOo macro viruses.
Since I release my macros as open source, of course, anyone can see what they do. And I put my name on them.
You better hope and pray that your competitor is not locked in like you are.
Wouldn't it be better to hope and pray that you get out of the lock in, and that your competitor IS locked in?
You mean, what products will be offered to allow malicious hackers to gain easy access to our GNU/Linux systems?
I regret to inform you that it is definitely possible to write macros, even in Basic, for OpenOffice.org or StarOffice that can compromise a system. And I don't just mean macro viruses. I was just about to describe how such a thing could be accomplished, but I think I will stop here.
As you can probably tell from a few of my other posts in this discussion, I am a big fan of OOo. I have become fascinated with the programmability of OOo. I have spent some months now writing macros, java programs, etc. for OOo and studying it's API.
Macros? Please see this post I made earlier.
call me a moron
Did you mean for real?
Back in the late 80's (yes, 80's, not 90's) there was this story I read in the trade rags. (I'm going to change a few terms to make it easier to read, and then I'll disclose the real terms I substituted out.)
There was an interview with a secretary. She had gotten a new computer. She was thrilled with how much more productive she was with it over her old office equipment, typewriter, etc. She could write letters and memos. She could correct mistakes much faster and easier. She could put pictures into memos and letters. She could get the eraser tool and easily correct spelling or typos.
What was this fantastic new word processor she was usiing?
The GIMP.
Now we might laugh that this is not the best tool for use as a word processor.
But what are the parallels between this amusing story and replacing everyone's office tool with WordPad? It seems like you could give people OpenOffice.org for free, no license problems. Powerful software. Lots of resources available (see another post I made in this discussion). Third party books. Training, etc. Also a commercial counterpart, StarOffice, if you want commercial.
I just can't see how anyone could not think that OpenOffice.org is ideal for school settings, especially elementary, and especially if what you describe is actually true.
Finally, are you so sure that people didn't covertly install their own software after you removed all the useful tools?
(In actuality, the story was about a secretary using a new Mac, and instead of The GIMP, it was obviously MacPaint she was so happy with.)
vi has too many features. Go with ed.
This is a Microsoft platform. Get serious. Use Edline.
Is Ability open source? (OOo is, SO is not.)
OpenOffice.org is well known, has third party books available, and third party training. If you want a commercial counterpart, there is StarOffice. Seems to me like the best of both worlds.
There is one major feature of OpenOffice.org and StarOffice that don't seem to get as much play as they should in a forum like Slashdot. It is programmable in Basic, Java, Python. If you install the scripting framework then is is programmable in BeanShell (i.e. interactive Java), JavaScript, and others in the future.
The OOo document format is well documented . XML in a Zip file. The DTD is available. KDE has announced that KOffice will be standardizing on the OpenOffice.org document format. So in theory, a Windows user running SO or OOo could exchange documents with a Linux user running KOffice. (Not that both OOo and SO don't also run on Linux.)
Developer documentation is readily available, and also a large downloadable SDK. Third parties can develop new components that run within and seemlessly integrate into OOo or SO.
There are lots of resources for OOo.
Won
Too
Free
Fore
Phive
Sicks
Sevin
Ate
Nighn
Tin
Eleven
Twelve
Firteen
Foreteen
Fifteen
This is by no means an exhaustive list.
I have personally taken an interest in OOo and written a Java program (and other tools ) The java program draws Mazes on a running copy of OOo, but the java program can be run on a different computer, over the net. (Win -> Linux, Linux -> Win, etc.)
This might rock the casbah for casual home users, but the real money is in the enterprise.
Why is everyone so hung up on the enterprise? (And there are non-Microsoft alternatives for the PIM believe it or not!)
Outside the enterprise, there are vast numbers of non-enterprise machines that could use cheap or free office suites.
Schools? Small business (or not so small). Libraries, Internet cafes, or other public access computers.
And let's talk about Microsoft Works vs. OpenOffice.org. As someone once said: "...more than a match for poor Enterprise.". (i.e. NCC-1701-A)
I don't know, but just last week it was reported that Linux was the most breached OS in existence. Take that how you will.
I saw that report. But is it the most rooted or owned system in existance?