One big difference between TB and Smallpox was that the latter was a purely human disease, whilst TB is endemic in many species, but particularly in ungulates.
The 'elimination' of TB in 'developed' countries is in a large part due to testing in slaughterhouses, which at times resulted in the culling and burning of entire herds. This is of course economically infeasible in many countries (kill the cattle = starvation for people) and politically infeasible in India (where attempts to cull cattle would result in riots).
Once again I'm concerned by the way the US pushes its version of democracy on The Rest Of The World. If you can't even get counts with relatively small numbers of votes right, in what way can you be confident that the final result in any way represents the intentions of the majority of voters, rather that the majority of whoever pays for the results?
Simple stuff? In a language that is neither one thing nor another, I find this comment bizarre. We're talking about a language that pretends to be 'Object Oriented' but includes an Integer and an int, just so that when you look back at your code 6 months later you can try to remember exactly why you had to use ((Integer) anInt).asString instead of Integer(anInt).asString.
Then we look at the incredible amount of semantic fluff you need to get classes to talk to each other. Come on Folks, this is supposed to be OOP here, why should class A have a clue about the interfaces surfaced by class B? I always thought that OOP meant that the caller didn't have to know Jack Shit about the called class. Perhaps I'm spoilt by Smalltalk, but I completely fail to see how Java makes anything easier. Why do we have to declare that a method and/or class throws exceptions? And even worse, why do we have to declare what exceptions are thrown? Why not just expect that any code could throw any exception, and if we don't handle it eventually something will?
Don't get me wrong, I think that Gosling did a great ob of writing a language that provides all kinds of neat features (like dynamic hotspot compilers, and the pluggable SecurityManager thing) but I fail to see good reasons why it's students 1st language rather than Pascal (which was designed to teach programming as people's 1st formal language)
I was talking to a Java programmer the other week and he said "I always find Smalltalk too cryptic". I asked him "Is it the 3 rules of syntax or the 5 reserved words you find difficult?".
In Oz we also have a sensible way of counting the votes. The referenced article claims that IRV elections are hard and time consuming to count, requiring all votes to be transferred to a central counting house. That's just plain wrong. Here in Oz we have a country about the same size as the continental USA (less Alaska), yet it's very rare that we don't know who is forming Government within 3 hours of the last booths closing in WA.
This is without using any electronic voting machines (although I must admit we have a much lower population of voters than the US, this is offset by voting being compulsory. Usually there are less than 5% of registered voters neglecting to vote - I've heard of US elections where less than 30% of voters bother to vote.) Very close electorates sometimes take a few days to process absentee and postal votes, and there are usually 2 or 3 electorates with close results that a candidate demands a recount. Good Scrutineering reduces the need for a recount in most cases though. I can only recall 2 elections where it was uncertain who would form Government for longer than 3 days (and that's including Sunday after polling day, when there is no counting) in the last 25 years. In both cases the result was so close that the Government was formed with majorities of 1 to 3 seats.
Senate results do take longer, but that's due to using preferential quota system with transferable excess votes, and ballot papers with 60-100 candidates on them. The small number of people like me who vote below the line tend to take a while to count. The majority, who vote above the line (and so indicate they want to use their Party of choice's preferences don't take long to count at all.
This move has been motivated by the tragedy occurring in remote Indigenous Communities. where a combination of alcohol, drugs, pornography, STDs and sexual violence is threatening to complete the genocide begun 220 years ago. Six year old boys and girls are being gang raped by teens and adults and this is considered 'normal' because the parents are out of their brains on drugs, and because their are very few who have managed to maintain ties to original cultural moral values. In some communities over 90% of children are violently raped (or are raped whilst they're off their heads on drugs) before they are 10 years old. Some communities haves rates of sexually transmitted disease in excess of 76% in the sub-8 year old age groups.
Aboriginal cultures were so intolerant of inappropriate sexual behavior that male and female cousins would be taught different languages so they couldn't even ask each other to 'go for a walk behind the wirrigagery bush'. A teenage boy who even looked in the direction of a girl he was not betrothed to was liable to be speared (yes, there's a huge complicated set of laws revolving around property and fear of women's magic involved as well, but let's not confuse our cousins from America with the complexity and richness of pre-genocide Murri culture!).
The previous Government's solution was a huge police action involving the Army, which also dismantled the Permit System and created a new black market in intoxicants. The current Government wants to know if controlling Internet Porn will give the Earth's oldest culture a chance at a future 50 years from now. I'm willing to wait and see if it can make a difference. It cannot work in isolation unless disease and substance abuse are tackled at the same time though, and unless the few remaining effective Elders don't help to regulate the rebirth of Indigenous culture.
To begin with we had the standard 'moving target with secret agenda'.
Then we had a whole bunch of clueless vendors who were each trying to tie the country up into their own foreign-controlled solution ('the mechanism and algorithms for encryption are not detailed here for obvious reasons' Yeah right - like your particular crypto card ain't worth shit and you don't want anyone to know about the technical details of your patent-applied-for 31tor system. I kid you not gentle readers.)
Then we had all the 'Smart Card Smart Card Yeah Yeah Yeah!!' people who didn't understand that you still have to implement solutions, having a CPU card doesn't automagically make things happen just because you want them to be so.
The original concept for the card was a pretty good idea - replace 26 other cards with a single card to simplify the access to Government services. As planned it would not work as an ID card as there was to be no information printed on the card to identify you other than your name. This also made the card completely impractical. For example, tho card was going to simplify concession access to public transport. The catch was that the driver had no way of telling from the face of the card whether tho]e cardholder was eligible for concession fares. This meant that every bus, taxi, tram and ferry in Oz needed a WiFi enabled reader, and that every passenger using their card enter their PIN into a reader as they entered the bus (etc). This was clearly not going to save time, as most of the elderly that would use buses would do that slowly.
The finals hurdle we had was the previous Government trying to sneak RealID type facilities into the card. Fortunately several members crossed the floor, and those amendments never got up.
I got the impression that Prof Fels was not going to let the card get through unless he was happy with our work, and he very early in the process seemed to realise that we could easily come up with something very bad for Oz. I have the utmost respect for the man now that I've worked with him.
The trick is to (Step One) get the User to visit an Evil Website: "Naked Lesbian Twins with Machine Guns" should do it.
(Step Two) Tell the User that a new "Video Codec" must be installed on their Ubuntu|Redhat|Suse System, which requires SuperUser privilege.
(Step Three) popup a standard webbrowser password dialog, asking for the root password
(Step Four) Start to download the "Codec Installer" that plays funny games with gcc, expect and python to sudo and install the malware when run.
(Step Five) Tell user to run 'bash GirlsWithGunsCodecInstaller'
Your logic error was in assuming that if GNU/Linux had 33% of the desktop then all those extra users were as clued as you. An easy mistake to make, I've done it myself many times. And it's amazing how peoples judgment fails when they have the chance to see naked lesbian twins with guns.
Hmmm, using preview this time...
CSS support
Hmm, will an integrated Silverlight plugin do for much improved web site dynamics and visual effects over CSS? No, CSS is an established and published standard. If you want to see what CSS and SVG can do visit http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/ . Make sure you have a Safari 3 beta browser ready if you can.
DOM support in their javascript implementation
Hmm, will a.NET interface for a vastly improved integration with scripting languages do? No, because dotNet is a broken attempt to implement Java, which is a broken attempt to implement Smalltalk so it looks like C++. dotNet doesn't run on very many platforms and is way too heavy as well.
XHTML support
Hmm, will rather supporting HTML 5.0 with Microsoft Extensions do? No, because there is already a standard for XHTML. Why go further from the standard with "Microsoft Extensions" that don't work on very many platforms when there's a standard that does?
SVG rendering
Hmm, the Windows Presentation Foundation already supports vector graphics as part of Silverlight, so I don't understand this demand. See my comment on CSS to see what SVG can do. Check out the radial engine demo and the rotated window in particular. Silverlight supports VML as I recall, not SVG.
- - CSS support
- Hmm, will an integrated Silverlight plugin do for much improved web site dynamics and visual effects over CSS?
No, CSS is an established and published standard. If you want to see what CSS and SVG can do visit http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/ . Make sure you have a Safari 3 beta browser ready if you can.
- - DOM support in their javascript implementation
- Hmm, will a.NET interface for a vastly improved integration with scripting languages do?
No, because dotNet is a broken attempt to implement Java, which is a broken attempt to implement Smalltalk so it looks like C++. dotNet doesn't run on very many platforms and is way too heavy as well.
- - XHTML support
- Hmm, will rather supporting HTML 5.0 with Microsoft Extensions do?
No, because there is already a standard for XHTWL. Why go further from the standard with "Microsoft Extensions" that don't work on very many platforms when there's a standard that does?
- - SVG rendering
- Hmm, the Windows Presentation Foundation already supports vector graphics as part of Silverlight, so I don't understand this demand.
See my comment on CSS to see what SVG can do. Check out the radial engine demo and the rotated window in particular.
It's not that they're doing exactly nothing. They're running towards and running away from the other browsers, both at the same time. The net result depends on how much effort they devote to both of course.
A very functional installation of Squeak/Etoys fits in under 40MB on this box. This includes full source, and all the Smalltalk toolset. My Seaside installation (Squeak plus web framework + database layers, full sources and Comanche web server) comes in under 85MB. These are fully fledged dev environments and runtimes (in Smalltalk there is no real separation between runtime and development environments though - this is what makes it so easy to work with, even for little kids).
I'm not saying this to boast, I just can't see how MS can possibly compete in this space even if the XO gets 2GB of flash.
Hmmm.... but dotNet doesn't really compare to Squeak/Etoys. AFAIK there is no integrated GUI development environment, no 30 years worth of mature libraries, and "Write Once Run Anywhere" is only a dream, to say nothing for the ease of working in a real OOP environment with everything being dynamically bound and a real object, instead being of a bastard stepchild of Java.
Let's say there was the capacity to add another gig of flash, and XP could run on it. How much educational software would then fit in the machine? How much development tools would fit for the kids to develop apps (I'm thinking specifically of the capabilities Squeak/EToys gives the XO here)? How secure would the grid computing model be?
I think Microsoft are looking at XO as a low cost laptop instead of as a delivery platform for education and collaboration.
And they're being taught to develop reliable systems on a platform where rebooting is a regular maintenance task and a standard bug fix technique. What the students do reflects immediately upon their instructors, or so I believed when I taught in a University.
I have to disagree. I found Java a non-intuitive nightmare that dares to call itself OOP. Debugging in my experience was a shade less painful than extracting my own teeth with a set of rusty pliers. Maybe the newer Eclipse environment has changed all that, but to someone who learnt SmallTalk as their first OOP language Java is a kind of a mess. This is based on pre 2002 experience by the way - I've assiduously avoided Java since then.
I have to point out that garbage collected languages have been around since a least 1976 (ST76), with major systems being developed in them from 1980 (SmallTalk-80). The issues of debugging GC languages aren't new by any means.
The whole 'reboot to fix it' is a methodology that we're going to see more and more of, as students who have only ever been exposed to windows platforms become more and more pervasive.
Kinda scary when they start writing systems for medical applications, industrial controllers and power supply chain management, let alone nationwide air traffic monitoring or emergency services interactions management.
"Hang on, we have to reboot our systems every 6 hours in order to manage this natural disaster - You can be advised when the flood waters will peak in about 15 minutes - did you say the bridge is washing away, and your phone lines are about to fall down? Ring us back in 15 minutes after the systems finish rebooting"
Yes, the long half-life materials are low-energy emitters, but some of their decay products have halflives in fractions of a second, along with the associated high energy particles. Telling half the truth is a kind of a lie, and yes, I'm aware what I've just said isn't the whole story either.
Were not the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs built using products from American Nuclear Reactors? Ted Kennedy's car must be a weapon of mass destruction!
Yes, I know this will be modded down as a troll, or as flamebait. But think very carefully about the full implications of proliferating reactors. And for those who say "CANDU can't be used to make bombs" where do you think India gets its' plutonium from?
The following is NOT a flame or attack on the USA, so please don't think it is one.
Almost every time there's war games played between USA and Australia (such as the Kangaroo series), the Oz subs 'sink' the US carriers in the first two days (often within the first few hours!). Then the exercises continue. I think it shows 3 very important things:
1) The US Navy has such a huge reliance (ouch - bad pun) on it's carriers that it may actually have a real weakness and lack of agility there.
2) US Anti-submarine tech has been developed specifically to deal with the Soviet Threat. The 'New Enemies' don't have what is perceived to be a credible sub force and so there has been no political thrust to allocate funding to a more widely scoped anti-submarine force.
3) Small nations (like Australia, Iran and North Korea) and 'less developed' nations like China, Iran and North Korea can pose some level of effective resistance to US aggression by investing in older submarine tech combined with great training.
Slashdot Mirror
One big difference between TB and Smallpox was that the latter was a purely human disease, whilst TB is endemic in many species, but particularly in ungulates.
The 'elimination' of TB in 'developed' countries is in a large part due to testing in slaughterhouses, which at times resulted in the culling and burning of entire herds. This is of course economically infeasible in many countries (kill the cattle = starvation for people) and politically infeasible in India (where attempts to cull cattle would result in riots).
Doesn't having a child rapidly increase the rate at which AIDS develops for a HIV infected woman not on retro-viral drugs?
Once again I'm concerned by the way the US pushes its version of democracy on The Rest Of The World. If you can't even get counts with relatively small numbers of votes right, in what way can you be confident that the final result in any way represents the intentions of the majority of voters, rather that the majority of whoever pays for the results?
Such a study (and they have been done by Alan Kay, one of the great minds behind OLPC) would be irrelevant, because the XO is not a laptop.
Java is not an Object Oriented Language. It is an OOP-like language with some support for objects. Smalltalk is a nice Object Oriented Language.
Simple stuff? In a language that is neither one thing nor another, I find this comment bizarre. We're talking about a language that pretends to be 'Object Oriented' but includes an Integer and an int, just so that when you look back at your code 6 months later you can try to remember exactly why you had to use ((Integer) anInt).asString instead of Integer(anInt).asString.
Then we look at the incredible amount of semantic fluff you need to get classes to talk to each other. Come on Folks, this is supposed to be OOP here, why should class A have a clue about the interfaces surfaced by class B? I always thought that OOP meant that the caller didn't have to know Jack Shit about the called class. Perhaps I'm spoilt by Smalltalk, but I completely fail to see how Java makes anything easier. Why do we have to declare that a method and/or class throws exceptions? And even worse, why do we have to declare what exceptions are thrown? Why not just expect that any code could throw any exception, and if we don't handle it eventually something will?
Don't get me wrong, I think that Gosling did a great ob of writing a language that provides all kinds of neat features (like dynamic hotspot compilers, and the pluggable SecurityManager thing) but I fail to see good reasons why it's students 1st language rather than Pascal (which was designed to teach programming as people's 1st formal language)
I was talking to a Java programmer the other week and he said "I always find Smalltalk too cryptic". I asked him "Is it the 3 rules of syntax or the 5 reserved words you find difficult?".
In Oz we also have a sensible way of counting the votes. The referenced article claims that IRV elections are hard and time consuming to count, requiring all votes to be transferred to a central counting house. That's just plain wrong. Here in Oz we have a country about the same size as the continental USA (less Alaska), yet it's very rare that we don't know who is forming Government within 3 hours of the last booths closing in WA.
This is without using any electronic voting machines (although I must admit we have a much lower population of voters than the US, this is offset by voting being compulsory. Usually there are less than 5% of registered voters neglecting to vote - I've heard of US elections where less than 30% of voters bother to vote.) Very close electorates sometimes take a few days to process absentee and postal votes, and there are usually 2 or 3 electorates with close results that a candidate demands a recount. Good Scrutineering reduces the need for a recount in most cases though. I can only recall 2 elections where it was uncertain who would form Government for longer than 3 days (and that's including Sunday after polling day, when there is no counting) in the last 25 years. In both cases the result was so close that the Government was formed with majorities of 1 to 3 seats.
Senate results do take longer, but that's due to using preferential quota system with transferable excess votes, and ballot papers with 60-100 candidates on them. The small number of people like me who vote below the line tend to take a while to count. The majority, who vote above the line (and so indicate they want to use their Party of choice's preferences don't take long to count at all.
On those figures Linux has grown 117% whilst Mac has grown 73.4%. World Domination is finally in sight!
This move has been motivated by the tragedy occurring in remote Indigenous Communities. where a combination of alcohol, drugs, pornography, STDs and sexual violence is threatening to complete the genocide begun 220 years ago. Six year old boys and girls are being gang raped by teens and adults and this is considered 'normal' because the parents are out of their brains on drugs, and because their are very few who have managed to maintain ties to original cultural moral values. In some communities over 90% of children are violently raped (or are raped whilst they're off their heads on drugs) before they are 10 years old. Some communities haves rates of sexually transmitted disease in excess of 76% in the sub-8 year old age groups.
Aboriginal cultures were so intolerant of inappropriate sexual behavior that male and female cousins would be taught different languages so they couldn't even ask each other to 'go for a walk behind the wirrigagery bush'. A teenage boy who even looked in the direction of a girl he was not betrothed to was liable to be speared (yes, there's a huge complicated set of laws revolving around property and fear of women's magic involved as well, but let's not confuse our cousins from America with the complexity and richness of pre-genocide Murri culture!).
The previous Government's solution was a huge police action involving the Army, which also dismantled the Permit System and created a new black market in intoxicants. The current Government wants to know if controlling Internet Porn will give the Earth's oldest culture a chance at a future 50 years from now. I'm willing to wait and see if it can make a difference. It cannot work in isolation unless disease and substance abuse are tackled at the same time though, and unless the few remaining effective Elders don't help to regulate the rebirth of Indigenous culture.
DISCLAIMER: I am an Access Card Taskforce member
It's been an interesting ride.
To begin with we had the standard 'moving target with secret agenda'.
Then we had a whole bunch of clueless vendors who were each trying to tie the country up into their own foreign-controlled solution ('the mechanism and algorithms for encryption are not detailed here for obvious reasons' Yeah right - like your particular crypto card ain't worth shit and you don't want anyone to know about the technical details of your patent-applied-for 31tor system. I kid you not gentle readers.)
Then we had all the 'Smart Card Smart Card Yeah Yeah Yeah!!' people who didn't understand that you still have to implement solutions, having a CPU card doesn't automagically make things happen just because you want them to be so.
The original concept for the card was a pretty good idea - replace 26 other cards with a single card to simplify the access to Government services. As planned it would not work as an ID card as there was to be no information printed on the card to identify you other than your name. This also made the card completely impractical. For example, tho card was going to simplify concession access to public transport. The catch was that the driver had no way of telling from the face of the card whether tho]e cardholder was eligible for concession fares. This meant that every bus, taxi, tram and ferry in Oz needed a WiFi enabled reader, and that every passenger using their card enter their PIN into a reader as they entered the bus (etc). This was clearly not going to save time, as most of the elderly that would use buses would do that slowly.
The finals hurdle we had was the previous Government trying to sneak RealID type facilities into the card. Fortunately several members crossed the floor, and those amendments never got up.
I got the impression that Prof Fels was not going to let the card get through unless he was happy with our work, and he very early in the process seemed to realise that we could easily come up with something very bad for Oz. I have the utmost respect for the man now that I've worked with him.
I believe that you can get gaol time for encouraging people not to vote or to vote informally.
The trick is to (Step One) get the User to visit an Evil Website: "Naked Lesbian Twins with Machine Guns" should do it.
(Step Two) Tell the User that a new "Video Codec" must be installed on their Ubuntu|Redhat|Suse System, which requires SuperUser privilege.
(Step Three) popup a standard webbrowser password dialog, asking for the root password
(Step Four) Start to download the "Codec Installer" that plays funny games with gcc, expect and python to sudo and install the malware when run.
(Step Five) Tell user to run 'bash GirlsWithGunsCodecInstaller'
Your logic error was in assuming that if GNU/Linux had 33% of the desktop then all those extra users were as clued as you. An easy mistake to make, I've done it myself many times. And it's amazing how peoples judgment fails when they have the chance to see naked lesbian twins with guns.
- - CSS support - Hmm, will an integrated Silverlight plugin do for much improved web site dynamics and visual effects over CSS? No, CSS is an established and published standard. If you want to see what CSS and SVG can do visit http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/ . Make sure you have a Safari 3 beta browser ready if you can. - - DOM support in their javascript implementation - Hmm, will a .NET interface for a vastly improved integration with scripting languages do?
No, because dotNet is a broken attempt to implement Java, which is a broken attempt to implement Smalltalk so it looks like C++. dotNet doesn't run on very many platforms and is way too heavy as well.
- - XHTML support
- Hmm, will rather supporting HTML 5.0 with Microsoft Extensions do?
No, because there is already a standard for XHTWL. Why go further from the standard with "Microsoft Extensions" that don't work on very many platforms when there's a standard that does?
- - SVG rendering
- Hmm, the Windows Presentation Foundation already supports vector graphics as part of Silverlight, so I don't understand this demand.
See my comment on CSS to see what SVG can do. Check out the radial engine demo and the rotated window in particular.
It's not that they're doing exactly nothing. They're running towards and running away from the other browsers, both at the same time. The net result depends on how much effort they devote to both of course.
A very functional installation of Squeak/Etoys fits in under 40MB on this box. This includes full source, and all the Smalltalk toolset. My Seaside installation (Squeak plus web framework + database layers, full sources and Comanche web server) comes in under 85MB. These are fully fledged dev environments and runtimes (in Smalltalk there is no real separation between runtime and development environments though - this is what makes it so easy to work with, even for little kids). I'm not saying this to boast, I just can't see how MS can possibly compete in this space even if the XO gets 2GB of flash.
Hmmm.... but dotNet doesn't really compare to Squeak/Etoys. AFAIK there is no integrated GUI development environment, no 30 years worth of mature libraries, and "Write Once Run Anywhere" is only a dream, to say nothing for the ease of working in a real OOP environment with everything being dynamically bound and a real object, instead being of a bastard stepchild of Java.
Let's say there was the capacity to add another gig of flash, and XP could run on it. How much educational software would then fit in the machine? How much development tools would fit for the kids to develop apps (I'm thinking specifically of the capabilities Squeak/EToys gives the XO here)? How secure would the grid computing model be?
I think Microsoft are looking at XO as a low cost laptop instead of as a delivery platform for education and collaboration.
And they're being taught to develop reliable systems on a platform where rebooting is a regular maintenance task and a standard bug fix technique. What the students do reflects immediately upon their instructors, or so I believed when I taught in a University.
I have to disagree. I found Java a non-intuitive nightmare that dares to call itself OOP. Debugging in my experience was a shade less painful than extracting my own teeth with a set of rusty pliers. Maybe the newer Eclipse environment has changed all that, but to someone who learnt SmallTalk as their first OOP language Java is a kind of a mess. This is based on pre 2002 experience by the way - I've assiduously avoided Java since then.
I have to point out that garbage collected languages have been around since a least 1976 (ST76), with major systems being developed in them from 1980 (SmallTalk-80). The issues of debugging GC languages aren't new by any means.
The whole 'reboot to fix it' is a methodology that we're going to see more and more of, as students who have only ever been exposed to windows platforms become more and more pervasive.
Kinda scary when they start writing systems for medical applications, industrial controllers and power supply chain management, let alone nationwide air traffic monitoring or emergency services interactions management.
"Hang on, we have to reboot our systems every 6 hours in order to manage this natural disaster - You can be advised when the flood waters will peak in about 15 minutes - did you say the bridge is washing away, and your phone lines are about to fall down? Ring us back in 15 minutes after the systems finish rebooting"
Yes, the long half-life materials are low-energy emitters, but some of their decay products have halflives in fractions of a second, along with the associated high energy particles. Telling half the truth is a kind of a lie, and yes, I'm aware what I've just said isn't the whole story either.
Were not the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs built using products from American Nuclear Reactors? Ted Kennedy's car must be a weapon of mass destruction!
Yes, I know this will be modded down as a troll, or as flamebait. But think very carefully about the full implications of proliferating reactors. And for those who say "CANDU can't be used to make bombs" where do you think India gets its' plutonium from?
The following is NOT a flame or attack on the USA, so please don't think it is one.
Almost every time there's war games played between USA and Australia (such as the Kangaroo series), the Oz subs 'sink' the US carriers in the first two days (often within the first few hours!). Then the exercises continue. I think it shows 3 very important things:
1) The US Navy has such a huge reliance (ouch - bad pun) on it's carriers that it may actually have a real weakness and lack of agility there.
2) US Anti-submarine tech has been developed specifically to deal with the Soviet Threat. The 'New Enemies' don't have what is perceived to be a credible sub force and so there has been no political thrust to allocate funding to a more widely scoped anti-submarine force.
3) Small nations (like Australia, Iran and North Korea) and 'less developed' nations like China, Iran and North Korea can pose some level of effective resistance to US aggression by investing in older submarine tech combined with great training.