Even if the Mercury vehicle wouldn't have worked without one additional person doing some manual checking, which is highly implausible because of how the laws of physics work, John Glenn didn't land on the Moon or even try landing on the Moon.
I'm not certain what your argument is. I merely pointed out that you and the other guy are both correct, but not talking about the same thing.
Why are they spending extra on food now just because they have employees?
No. The probem is that every three months, they have to make more money. So after the labor costs are as close to zero, they will have to cut them elsewhere. And not only will they have to cut them elsewhere, the stakeholders will be expecting profit as big or bigger than the big bump they will get when getting rid of most of the labor.
Which of course will not be possible. We've been programmed since the early 80's to look at the employee as enemy number 1 to be rid of at any possibility. So when the war is finally won, the victors will be at a bit of a loss for new targets.
So basically you want the northeast and California deciding who's President and nobody else matters, right? Because that's what you get when you forget that this is the United STATES and elect a President your way.
The way it works now is a feature, not a bug.
All I think is needed is a majority. the candidate who gets the most votes wins. You obviously like your canddate to win regardless of the rest of the country. If you cannot get a majority of the votes, why should your candidate win?
I do fully understand that the party who received less votes in teh past several elections for president are orgasmic over the electoral college version that allows them to take power via minority. A great gig when you get it.
If you're going to automate a $15/hr job, then why wouldn't you automate a $6/hr job?
Because the return on investment is less than half as much.
If you ever decide to start a business, you should partner with someone that can do math.
I was going to comment about this in a separate subthread, but here goes. The concept that we are forcing the poor fast food company to automation by raising the minimum wage, is merely a handy excuse to pass on to the world. This is coming whether the Minimum wage is 7, 15, or 3 dollars an hour.
Getting rid of employees with their issues is a very important thing for business, especially at the bottom of the ladder. Exhibit one is that we are going forward with the automation even as the minimum wage stays the same.
Of course, the flipside is that it enables companies to offer customers the choice of 30% more expensive ingredients for the same cost, or having a human to serve it.
This should be at +5 funny or something. It doesn't work that way.
In fact, elimination of almost all labor will be a very bad thing once it happens. If say, McDonalds eliminates every job but the store manager, the stakeholders will have an involuntary orgasm. Then 3 months later, oh-oh, What do we get rid of now to increase profits? Last time I checked, Their customer base was old folks and people with kids. Neither group is all that concerned about the expensive ingredients. So I suspect that indeed, without the bogeyman of labor costs, the food will be the next thing to suffer.
If it has chicago[sic] in the name it probably isn't pizza.
Chicago "Pizza" ia a whole loaf of bread with tomato sauce and cheese in it. I remember when bragging rights were how thick the layer of bread was. Yuck.
We landed on the moon because we put a bunch of African American women sat in the back room somewhere doing calculations.
Actually, all the necessary calculations were already being done by stored-program digital computers, courtesy of the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory which built one of the first embedded computers with digital ICs. Unless your "bunch of African American women" were some stowaways in the Apollo spacecraft armed with calculators.
Is this a big whoosh? You are talking about the MIT designed Navigation computer, and OP is talking about Katherine Johnson, one of NACA and later NASA's "computers" - yes, they called the ladies computers. The respect for the woman was so high that John Glenn refused to fly unless she verified the numbers that NASA's first digital computer spit out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Point to history when this hasn't happened before.
We landed on the moon because we put a bunch of African American women sat in the back room somewhere doing calculations.
We made it through 90% of humanity needing to farm because we automated the boring unskilled part. (Even parts that were so unskilled we had mules and horses do them).
We'll be fine like we always have been.
I'm certainly hoping we'll be fine. The trick parts will be regarding the idle population. As the work eliminated expands up the skill ladder, we'll face some issues for a while. The problem is that for one reason or another, many of the folks working the unskilled labor are not going to be capable of moving up. Some folks just aren't that smart, some folks are voracious underachievers. Some folks have problemacious personalities. Are there answers to those issues? Probably.
But assuming that the present day attitude toward labor costs holds, there isn't a plan for people to move up, the plan is to eliminate jobs. Unless we decide to do make-work.
So we are possibly looking at a post labor America to start, and the world later.
The most difficult barrier is going to be the diminishment of the ages old concept of having to work to survive. This is rooted so deeply on most people that few can contemplate the idea. Anyhow, very interesting times we will be living in.
Many of the early commentators are missing the point.
Barcode is the direct allusion to Nazi Germany innovation of using permanent tattooed numbers to account their inmates. By the way, they have used IBM computers, leading novel technology, to keep track of inmates.
Yeah - so what? We have people today that claim that social security numbers are the biblical Mark of the Beast" http://themarkofthebeast.com/4...
I wonder if there is the smallest possibility of a difference between what the Nasties did, and IBM's collusion with them, and a temporary barcode that is helpful for finding people with dementia after they wander off? Sort of like the difference between getting a person back into safety and comfort, and gassing them removing their valuables, and tossing them in an oven. to roast.
Seriously, if this is all a part of some hideous plan, be it Satan getting ready to unleash hell upon the earth, or a new rise of Fascism, a glue on fingernail to get oldsters back home is pretty far down the list.
An adhesive bar code or QR-code on fingernails sound about as permanent as a Post It note on a cloth sleeve.
They aren't permanent, but they can sit on the fingernail for a fair time. Many people wear artificial fingernails that glue on and last a good while.
There's still the problem of dementia patients wandering away from their residence. This seems to happen fairly frequently and sometimes with tragic results. Some kind of tracking of such folks would also be nice. These are often used in the residential settings of such people, but don't work when the the patient walks away.
That's part of what this system does. And yes, there's always people wandering off around here.
Once all of the coal miners are back to work, and hte US has all the clean coal power that progressives have denied us, why would we care one little bit about a faulty pseudo technology like wind power?
We stand on the cusp of a new great age, and China and our homegrown commies can eat their turbines, because they can't compete with our coal.
What, you think I'm a Trump-ette? LOL!
Never said anything like that. But renewable energy is not a conservative thing. And being that you rail on every chance about the progressives, so I took a wild-ass guess that you toe the company line.
Apple is helping to finance the destruction of Western alternative energy equipment manufacturing by China.
Strat
Once all of the coal miners are back to work, and hte US has all the clean coal power that progressives have denied us, why would we care one little bit about a faulty pseudo technology like wind power?
We stand on the cusp of a new great age, and China and our homegrown commies can eat their turbines, because they can't compete with our coal.
All anybody said was the cost of the frigging LITHIUM was insignificant. Then you come in and ask for people to back that up with numbers, because after all, it can't actually cost zero.
No, the anybody said it was "essentially free". If the anybody said "insignificant", the discussion would have gone a little differently.
The reason I asked the as yet unanswerable question regarding amounts is because we don't know how much there might be needed. We don't know how it is to be contained - it is an alkaline metal after all. And alkaline metals and atomics has an interesting and not terribly positive history.
Which is all to say that while yes, the cost of using Lithium might be relatively insignificant, even if we aren't sure yet.
But statements like "essentially free" are irresponsible hubris. You might disagree. That's okay Hubris is not all that rare, especially in a field like fusion power, where the going has been slow indeed. But I personally have "essentially no" patience for it.
It also took 20% of the world's oil production offline for nearly a decade, which profits other oil companies, especially with the guaranteed market for military fuel. And there was a _hope_, ill-founded, that a wave of strong anti-Muslim-leadership politics would sweep the region.
Yeah, but that hope was not based in the History of the mideast and reality as it exists there. That was just another inconvenient bit of wishful thinking that was useful in settling that particular family feud. It's a place where one can go from esteemed ally to the "American Devil" overnight, depending on the convenience of the parties involved.
So we were surprised that after we sort of installed a democracy, they all went back to what they were doing before, which is enjoying the hell out of killing each other.
Did that answer your question, or do you require a more detailed explanation?
You answered my question, but you didn't give me the answer you thought you did. Do you know the exact amount of Lithium that is going to be used in the first commercial fusion power generating station? Have you worked with Lithium?
You need to understand that when using words like "essentially free", you are saying that it is a trivial matter. You won't understand that however. You are going to say that you were not talking about the handling and containment, just the purchase price, which you have predetermined to be "essentially free"... There is no part of generating power with these genies in a bottle that is trivial, and just between us chachalacas, pronouncing a vital component as essentially free before the first watt of commercial power has been generated is hubris on a grand level.
I wouldn't hire you as part of the process, I can tell you that. If you came in looking for a job in this matter, and told me that a critical part of the whole endeavor was essentially free, I'd determine you weren't suitable for the task. And I'd be right.
Do you mean thermal efficiency? I pegged it at somewhat less than 50%, like most power plants:
$ units
You have: 1g / (7 g/mol / avogadro ) * 17.5 MeV
You want: kWh
* 67003.703
Since a typical household electricity use is about 9000 kWh/year, at 35% efficiency, that would be several years worth.
If you mean transmutation efficiency, it doesn't matter. You keep recycling the lithium until it converts. As I pointed out, the overall cost of that process could be high, but the cost of the raw lithium is insignificant.
But not 0. My entire thrust was that people were saying Lithium is "essentially free". Tell me exactly how much Li is going to be used in the first commercial fusion power generation plant, and tell me that it is "essentially free". Looking forward to your precise figures.
This "essentially" attitude is why a lot of people don't trust nuc power. Remember, nuclear electricity generation is "too cheap to meter", as told to us by Lewis Strauss, no less an authority than the Chairman of the US AEC. Sorry muchacho, there is no particular part of the process that is insignificant, not the cost, not the composition, not the housing, not anything. Well maybe the flowers planted around the power plant. Then again, we might want to specify some hyper accumulators for phytoremidiation if there was an accident, so as to get a head start on the cleanup.
That old paradigm is called 'economy of scale' and it works very well in most industries.
And quite a strategic nightmare when applied to power generation in the modern age. Tell me, if say I was a country that you were fighting. Would you prefer that I had only a couple electric generating facilities, or thousands of them.
For me, I would hope any country I was fighting would have exactly one big economy of scale power generation plant. I would utilize 1 each daisycutter or cruise missile, and my enemy is now my bitch. This is a strategic observation not shared by many, but it is not incorrect.
Slashdot Mirror
What? You want more-eh?
FTFY
Even if the Mercury vehicle wouldn't have worked without one additional person doing some manual checking, which is highly implausible because of how the laws of physics work, John Glenn didn't land on the Moon or even try landing on the Moon.
I'm not certain what your argument is. I merely pointed out that you and the other guy are both correct, but not talking about the same thing.
Why are they spending extra on food now just because they have employees?
No. The probem is that every three months, they have to make more money. So after the labor costs are as close to zero, they will have to cut them elsewhere. And not only will they have to cut them elsewhere, the stakeholders will be expecting profit as big or bigger than the big bump they will get when getting rid of most of the labor.
Which of course will not be possible. We've been programmed since the early 80's to look at the employee as enemy number 1 to be rid of at any possibility. So when the war is finally won, the victors will be at a bit of a loss for new targets.
Have you worked with Lithium?
Yes.
Rule number one is not to be cavalier about an alkali metal.
And the cost of Lithium is not merely in the purchase price of the metal.
Regardless, I think we've taken this about as far as we can, so You can continue to believe that it is "Essentially free" as you like.
So basically you want the northeast and California deciding who's President and nobody else matters, right? Because that's what you get when you forget that this is the United STATES and elect a President your way.
The way it works now is a feature, not a bug.
All I think is needed is a majority. the candidate who gets the most votes wins. You obviously like your canddate to win regardless of the rest of the country. If you cannot get a majority of the votes, why should your candidate win?
I do fully understand that the party who received less votes in teh past several elections for president are orgasmic over the electoral college version that allows them to take power via minority. A great gig when you get it.
It's because you are inhernently undemocratic.
If you're going to automate a $15/hr job, then why wouldn't you automate a $6/hr job?
Because the return on investment is less than half as much.
If you ever decide to start a business, you should partner with someone that can do math.
I was going to comment about this in a separate subthread, but here goes. The concept that we are forcing the poor fast food company to automation by raising the minimum wage, is merely a handy excuse to pass on to the world. This is coming whether the Minimum wage is 7, 15, or 3 dollars an hour.
Getting rid of employees with their issues is a very important thing for business, especially at the bottom of the ladder. Exhibit one is that we are going forward with the automation even as the minimum wage stays the same.
Of course, the flipside is that it enables companies to offer customers the choice of 30% more expensive ingredients for the same cost, or having a human to serve it.
This should be at +5 funny or something. It doesn't work that way.
In fact, elimination of almost all labor will be a very bad thing once it happens. If say, McDonalds eliminates every job but the store manager, the stakeholders will have an involuntary orgasm. Then 3 months later, oh-oh, What do we get rid of now to increase profits? Last time I checked, Their customer base was old folks and people with kids. Neither group is all that concerned about the expensive ingredients. So I suspect that indeed, without the bogeyman of labor costs, the food will be the next thing to suffer.
If it has chicago[sic] in the name it probably isn't pizza.
Chicago "Pizza" ia a whole loaf of bread with tomato sauce and cheese in it. I remember when bragging rights were how thick the layer of bread was. Yuck.
You're being sexist there. All jobs are women's jobs.
Not "sperm donor".
Parthenogenesis will make that job obsolete soon.
We landed on the moon because we put a bunch of African American women sat in the back room somewhere doing calculations.
Actually, all the necessary calculations were already being done by stored-program digital computers, courtesy of the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory which built one of the first embedded computers with digital ICs. Unless your "bunch of African American women" were some stowaways in the Apollo spacecraft armed with calculators.
Is this a big whoosh? You are talking about the MIT designed Navigation computer, and OP is talking about Katherine Johnson, one of NACA and later NASA's "computers" - yes, they called the ladies computers. The respect for the woman was so high that John Glenn refused to fly unless she verified the numbers that NASA's first digital computer spit out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Point to history when this hasn't happened before.
We landed on the moon because we put a bunch of African American women sat in the back room somewhere doing calculations.
We made it through 90% of humanity needing to farm because we automated the boring unskilled part. (Even parts that were so unskilled we had mules and horses do them).
We'll be fine like we always have been.
I'm certainly hoping we'll be fine. The trick parts will be regarding the idle population. As the work eliminated expands up the skill ladder, we'll face some issues for a while. The problem is that for one reason or another, many of the folks working the unskilled labor are not going to be capable of moving up. Some folks just aren't that smart, some folks are voracious underachievers. Some folks have problemacious personalities. Are there answers to those issues? Probably.
But assuming that the present day attitude toward labor costs holds, there isn't a plan for people to move up, the plan is to eliminate jobs. Unless we decide to do make-work.
So we are possibly looking at a post labor America to start, and the world later.
The most difficult barrier is going to be the diminishment of the ages old concept of having to work to survive. This is rooted so deeply on most people that few can contemplate the idea. Anyhow, very interesting times we will be living in.
> I blame that incredibly annoying song by (I think) Dean Martin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore
And when it comes to pass, that an eel bites your ass - That's a moray.
Many of the early commentators are missing the point.
Barcode is the direct allusion to Nazi Germany innovation of using permanent tattooed numbers to account their inmates. By the way, they have used IBM computers, leading novel technology, to keep track of inmates.
Yeah - so what? We have people today that claim that social security numbers are the biblical Mark of the Beast" http://themarkofthebeast.com/4...
I wonder if there is the smallest possibility of a difference between what the Nasties did, and IBM's collusion with them, and a temporary barcode that is helpful for finding people with dementia after they wander off? Sort of like the difference between getting a person back into safety and comfort, and gassing them removing their valuables, and tossing them in an oven. to roast.
Seriously, if this is all a part of some hideous plan, be it Satan getting ready to unleash hell upon the earth, or a new rise of Fascism, a glue on fingernail to get oldsters back home is pretty far down the list.
Ya old Poester, you.
A tattoo on a wrist or other visible place would be pretty permanent but the data base connected to the tattoo must be kept up to date.
I hear IBM has experience with that.
Ohhhhh, Burn!
An adhesive bar code or QR-code on fingernails sound about as permanent as a Post It note on a cloth sleeve.
They aren't permanent, but they can sit on the fingernail for a fair time. Many people wear artificial fingernails that glue on and last a good while.
There's still the problem of dementia patients wandering away from their residence. This seems to happen fairly frequently and sometimes with tragic results. Some kind of tracking of such folks would also be nice. These are often used in the residential settings of such people, but don't work when the the patient walks away.
That's part of what this system does. And yes, there's always people wandering off around here.
"And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand...."
An obvious way to avoid this end-of-days prophecy would be to put these barcodes on the left hand.
Hasn't excluding everyone but dementia patients kinda blown that prophecy already?
Right, but Trump is the antichrist already so he better to get to work on those four horsemen.
Every president since Carter has been the antichrist. Oops wait, he was apparently the antichrist too.
Once all of the coal miners are back to work, and hte US has all the clean coal power that progressives have denied us, why would we care one little bit about a faulty pseudo technology like wind power?
We stand on the cusp of a new great age, and China and our homegrown commies can eat their turbines, because they can't compete with our coal.
What, you think I'm a Trump-ette? LOL!
Never said anything like that. But renewable energy is not a conservative thing. And being that you rail on every chance about the progressives, so I took a wild-ass guess that you toe the company line.
Why should they worry about being sued if they're not the employer and the drivers are just independent contractors?
Yup, if you skirt the regulations, don't be too surprised if you find out why there were regulations.
Because if a private contractor for Uber is also a private contractor for sex, well - the invisible handjob of the free market.
Apple is helping to finance the destruction of Western alternative energy equipment manufacturing by China.
Strat
Once all of the coal miners are back to work, and hte US has all the clean coal power that progressives have denied us, why would we care one little bit about a faulty pseudo technology like wind power?
We stand on the cusp of a new great age, and China and our homegrown commies can eat their turbines, because they can't compete with our coal.
All anybody said was the cost of the frigging LITHIUM was insignificant. Then you come in and ask for people to back that up with numbers, because after all, it can't actually cost zero.
No, the anybody said it was "essentially free". If the anybody said "insignificant", the discussion would have gone a little differently.
The reason I asked the as yet unanswerable question regarding amounts is because we don't know how much there might be needed. We don't know how it is to be contained - it is an alkaline metal after all. And alkaline metals and atomics has an interesting and not terribly positive history.
Which is all to say that while yes, the cost of using Lithium might be relatively insignificant, even if we aren't sure yet.
But statements like "essentially free" are irresponsible hubris. You might disagree. That's okay Hubris is not all that rare, especially in a field like fusion power, where the going has been slow indeed. But I personally have "essentially no" patience for it.
It also took 20% of the world's oil production offline for nearly a decade, which profits other oil companies, especially with the guaranteed market for military fuel. And there was a _hope_, ill-founded, that a wave of strong anti-Muslim-leadership politics would sweep the region.
Yeah, but that hope was not based in the History of the mideast and reality as it exists there. That was just another inconvenient bit of wishful thinking that was useful in settling that particular family feud. It's a place where one can go from esteemed ally to the "American Devil" overnight, depending on the convenience of the parties involved.
So we were surprised that after we sort of installed a democracy, they all went back to what they were doing before, which is enjoying the hell out of killing each other.
Did that answer your question, or do you require a more detailed explanation?
You answered my question, but you didn't give me the answer you thought you did. Do you know the exact amount of Lithium that is going to be used in the first commercial fusion power generating station? Have you worked with Lithium?
You need to understand that when using words like "essentially free", you are saying that it is a trivial matter. You won't understand that however. You are going to say that you were not talking about the handling and containment, just the purchase price, which you have predetermined to be "essentially free"... There is no part of generating power with these genies in a bottle that is trivial, and just between us chachalacas, pronouncing a vital component as essentially free before the first watt of commercial power has been generated is hubris on a grand level.
I wouldn't hire you as part of the process, I can tell you that. If you came in looking for a job in this matter, and told me that a critical part of the whole endeavor was essentially free, I'd determine you weren't suitable for the task. And I'd be right.
Do you mean thermal efficiency? I pegged it at somewhat less than 50%, like most power plants:
$ units You have: 1g / (7 g/mol / avogadro ) * 17.5 MeV You want: kWh * 67003.703
Since a typical household electricity use is about 9000 kWh/year, at 35% efficiency, that would be several years worth.
If you mean transmutation efficiency, it doesn't matter. You keep recycling the lithium until it converts. As I pointed out, the overall cost of that process could be high, but the cost of the raw lithium is insignificant.
But not 0. My entire thrust was that people were saying Lithium is "essentially free". Tell me exactly how much Li is going to be used in the first commercial fusion power generation plant, and tell me that it is "essentially free". Looking forward to your precise figures.
This "essentially" attitude is why a lot of people don't trust nuc power. Remember, nuclear electricity generation is "too cheap to meter", as told to us by Lewis Strauss, no less an authority than the Chairman of the US AEC. Sorry muchacho, there is no particular part of the process that is insignificant, not the cost, not the composition, not the housing, not anything. Well maybe the flowers planted around the power plant. Then again, we might want to specify some hyper accumulators for phytoremidiation if there was an accident, so as to get a head start on the cleanup.
That old paradigm is called 'economy of scale' and it works very well in most industries.
And quite a strategic nightmare when applied to power generation in the modern age. Tell me, if say I was a country that you were fighting. Would you prefer that I had only a couple electric generating facilities, or thousands of them.
For me, I would hope any country I was fighting would have exactly one big economy of scale power generation plant. I would utilize 1 each daisycutter or cruise missile, and my enemy is now my bitch. This is a strategic observation not shared by many, but it is not incorrect.