Well I guess this means it's going to be possible to get the "forgotten" info using a VPN with a server located outside of EU and other asshole countries (my own included) that require the enforcement of this bullshit "right".
The problem with "The Right to be Forgotten" is that short of walling off portions of the Internet, it won't work.
As well, it's a short hop skip and a jump to come up with all manner of rationales that certain information on the network is not to be allowed.
Seeing where the EU is heading, I would suggest that the EU use it's superior knowledge and moral imperative, and implement that wall. They can produce a 21st century internet version of the Volksempfänger and be blissful that any and all information can be blocked as the EU sees fit.
All it proves is that women licked the brushes. Knowing the way that men have mistreated women over the centuries, I would not be surprised if a talented artist who didn't like to lick his own brush was given a woman to do the unpleasant task for him.
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Are you getting some sort of weird sexual thrill imagining a bevy of beautiful naked women tied to posts, being forced to lick the male artist's brushes, and heaven knows what else?
Because that's exactly what the bullshit you just wrote reads like.
You must have flunked art class. Artists over the millenniums have all licked their own brushes, and there are a number of different points that can be placed on a brush. No way the artist doing the work would have someone else lick their brushes.
The practice is pretty much discouraged today, as many of the pigments are poisonous.
In fact, if you want a modern day horror story regarding brush licking, the plight of the radium girls is illustrative:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls . While this is sometimes used as a Casus belli against the patriarchy, it is an illustration of the reverse. We don't hear much about the plight of the men who produced the radium that poisoned these women - it is of no interest for some reason. Make no mistake, radiation is a true title 9 poison.
This has been a well known fact for centuries, the whole point of TFA and the significance of the discovery is actually presented in TFS which states: "The researchers said this challenged long-held beliefs that women had played little role in the European Middle Ages in producing literary and written texts which came largely from religious institutions,"
The interesting thing about this challenging of long held beliefs is that while on the surface, those who would claim women's oppression might be saying "see. See, SEE?! Muh oppression" - one of the fundamental drivers of modern feminism is that the Christian Church is one of the primary drivers of institutionalized patriarchal oppression of women.
Some further thought into this matter might lead one to think that it is a strange oppressive patriarchy that elevates women to prestigious positions based on merit. People here are busy arguing about literacy, kinda missing the point that talent is a valuable asset as well.
note - my point isn't that the angry desert gawd's followers don't have some severely screwed up ideas about women. It's just that this bit of historical knowledge sort of messes with the beliefs of modern feminism. Perhaps this knowledge should be suppressed?
That's some next level paranoia you have there. It's good, and i hope this paranoia extends to all platforms and not just Android.
You can be relatively sure since you can compare the AOSP version with that of your phone.
By the way - not certain who you were calling next level paranoid.
At the present time, smartphones can't really be made safe.
As for the paranoia, if you are okay with Facebook weaponizing your data, what you buy, what websites you visit, what you post, your political opinions, and selling it to groups who have agendas that might harm you or help you - I don't care. I don't care if you want to tell the three letter agencies your life history,
Perhaps you might be interested in just who is trying to access your computer devices, perhaps not.
Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
And the topic was about the Facebook app. Not sure how your script blocker and going to the web app has anything to do with the discussion.
Well, if you aren't sure how that is applicable, allow me to explain.
AC very distinctly posted "You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account."
That is wrong - that is not even wrong, it's the opposite of right.
Which is why I very distinctly posted: "Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application."
And since some folks do not understand or believe that, I offered, very distinctly, a way to prove that very fact. A fact it is.
Summary of all of this - the aarticle we are talking about is how Facebook is not removeable from smartphones - AC incorrectly posted that having no account is not sharing data. This is completely and demonstrably wrong, and I simply noted that you are sharing personal data with Facebook if you do not have an account with them.
Back to your statement:
Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
Viewpoints, friend, do not invalidate facts. I'll believe his "Viewpoint" as a fact when he offers a way to prove that his phone never offers any data to Facebook. It takes some serious effort to block data sharing with them, and not having an account does not block them, and disabled FB app does not either.
Me? I can prove it does if you go to many pages on the internet, unless you kill the tracking scripts. No Facebook App needed, and no Facebook account needed. FB is tracking you You can prove it too, my example uses a laptop/desktop example, but the fundamentals apply. About the best you can do for a phone is disable javascript.
Consider that some people might not know this yet.
I've known that Facebook and some others are pretty cancerous for years. That doesn't mean that I refuse to tell anyone about it because I happen to know about it. Y'all need to understand that there are more people out there than yourselves.
It has been like that since I know smartphone. How can this be new?!?!?!?
I don't recall anyone saying this is something that was implemented yesterday. It is a story about how a person was surprised to find out about the practice. So he's telling people about it. Many people who don't already know about the practice. It's news to them.
Do you think that you should be the final arbiter of what should or should not be reported?
Are you the first person that ever knew this - if not, there probably a lot of people before you who knew it, and they never should have told you - old news, you know, wasting the intelligent people's time.
It is also the reason I buy unlocked phones, my latest one, Nokia 6.1, is an Android One phone and no bloatware installed.
How is buying an unlocked phone even news any more? Practice what you preach. Meanwhile, I just file this under a chance to give some folks some knowledge. If they already know, they can scroll on by.
Exactly. I've been mentioning this very issue since 2015 at least. What the article failed to mention (or maybe my reading skills suck) is that on older phones which hadn't had Facebook embedded, the app will come bundled with a "security update" which installs it in such a way it can't be uninstalled. Now THAT is fucked up.
Bundled shit out-of-the-box? OK, yeah, contracts and whatnot. Forcefully bundling shit as part of a "security update"? That's LOW.
Yup, it is pretty low.
I think any solution - if possible, would actually involve a Linux based phone, and an environment that allows the user to have access to tools like wireshark. A repository program environment.
There are some Linux smartphone alternatives, but I'm not certain I'd call any of them ready for prime time. And as much as I'd like that, talk about a niche market. Phones and tablets are not aimed at the power user, but more like the intellectually challenged.
My feelings exactly. I have had a Galaxy S6 since it was first released (nearly 4 years ago) and have never been able to delete the Facebook app (or some other apps, for that matter). Not sure why this is somehow news now.
I see. The old" I have seen this, so it must never ever be reported ever again!" The geeks version of "Stay off my Lawn!"
Sorry Anonymous Coward, it's pretty obvious from the posts in this thread that a lot of people didn't know, and it is a good thing for them to know.
In the been there, done that category, this is not unusual on PCs either. A simple program uninstall usually leaves a hellava lot of debris behind. Uninstalling say, Microsoft Office seems just like removing the icons.
Try using a product like Revo, uninstall some program, and select deep scan for leftovers. (don't restart after the program's uninstaller finishes) then look at what the deep scan shows you. Some programs just leave registry items, some pretty much everything.
I do not know if there is a comparable product for phones. There should be.
And since you already know everything, this is not for you. It is for people who might not know yet.
It is funny that people act like you are either agreeing to share and sharing all your data with a company or nothing at all. So predictable. You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
Does Facebook have paid shills now?
Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application.
Don't believe me? Try this:
Have a fresh shiny new account with no memberships anywhere.
Install a script blocker. One that you can look up which scripts are being blocked
Go to some popular website
Now take that list and see just who is being blocked. You'll have to look them up. Google has the decency to identify themselves, Facebook hides multiple cryptically named trackers, often several to a page. Whois is your friend. Or not.
The problem would not disappear. We still need to remove the plastic already there. Both removal and prevention are necessary.
Sure. But my point is not that what is there doesn't have to be cleaned up.
But if we clean it up without any mitigation on the part of those who are actually causing the problem, and those are actually responsible for the problem, they have absolutely zero reason to stop doing what they should be responsible for. Just keep blaming it on the first world.
Gladly. Shithole nations are followers in every way. We brought them technology, products, processes, and money by the bucketload. The Vietnamese who are pouring mountains of plastic into the ocean didn't invent these, they were introduced to them by western nations.
As such pointing the finger to their waste without demonstrating a suitable alternative is disingenuous.
Fascinating rationale. Problem is, the alternative to just plopping the plastics into a river that ends up in the ocean has been around a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... . Especially that in some of these countries, labor is in ready supply, and one of the issues - that of sorting - can be largely taken care of.
They learnt to drink from plastic bottles from us, it's up to us to demonstrate that they can live without it too.
I doubt that living without plastic is practical. Recycling is practical.
Despite my flippant comment the USA still is the most powerful nation in the world. Do not underestimate the amount of influence it has on waste from these countries. And despite my comment I don't call out USA alone here. All western nations have a role to play, not the least those such as Australia who actively exported their plastic waste to they very countries which are accused of polluting the oceans with it.
We should once again become the leaders we have always claimed to be.
There seems to be an undercurrent that China buys this plastic, then dumps it. Strange business model, that. What they did do, was process plastic and paper. Did do, because they stopped https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
Now, between you and me and the voices in our heads, there is precious little that the US can do by itself. Or Europe. We can stop sending our recyclables to China, and do our own recycling, that's been taken care of by the Chinese. We can do other countries recycling, I suppose. That really seems like the sort of thing individual countries should do.
Probably the only thing that might work is the present United Nations effort. But it is kind of weird, having to act like it is the USA's problem, while making rah rah about the efforts in the countries that are responsible. http://web.unep.org/unepmap/un... . Note that particular link is pretty innocuous, but I receive notices, some acting like the USA banning plastic straws for waxed paper ones will cure the problem. Or that these brave intrepid countries are cleaning the oceans of the USA's criminal activities.
So I guess they have figured that they need to lowkey pump the very fashionable hatred of the USA and sneak some concept of non-piggishness to these countries through the back door to get things done. Global politics, amirite?
In the end, the concept of those doing the inventing - (do you blame Charles Goodyear, Alexander Parkes, or the person who discovered chicle?) as responsible for the utterly disgusting habits of other people is stretching logic to the snapping point of a synthetic rubber band.
In fact, this problem has at base the problem of too damn many people.
But there is a worse problem. Does one improve the health and fecundity of people who might have simply lived short lives in step with their mental outlook, or is one better to leave them alone and eliminate the problems that occur from over rapid population growth? In the weirdest twist of the blame the USA bogeyman, we are sort of responsible for extending the lifespan of people in these countries.
Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country
Oh? I thought you were the most powerful country in the world. How far you seem to have fallen.
You're gonna have to explain that. I can't fit it into the context of what we are talking about.
Explain how reducing the US's plastic oceanic pollution is going to eliminate plastic in the ocean. If the USA didn't exist, would it have to be invented so you had something to blame it on?
I understand that I'm an idiot, but in most cases, a problem can be fixed by treating the source of the problem. Me? My way of approaching the problem is to stop it at the source. We ain't the source.
" Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country, something we painfully learned a few years back"
Which country is that? Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Yugoslavia? Vietnam?
The painful lessons were learned by the people living in those countries, not the attackers
Read my post - including the part you quoted.
And while you strut around like a little cock-a-whoop as if you made a point - you are doing exactly the same thing. Which ironically means you support the US attacking the wrong countries. I don't, dear coward. In any circumstance.
fixing the post (HTML on mobile is an adventure: no "preview"):
Recycling plastic waste. We do it here in the USA.
All? (Some is recycled here in Brazil too... Some cities here do almost all: that's not enough, not even close...)
Perfect is surely the pernicious enemy of good. We have four recycling setups here where I am. One is the municipal, which takes glass, aluminum, most plastics, paper and cardboard. Large metallic items can be dropped off at our transfer station gratis. Oddball plastics that are recyclable are now being taken at the nature conservancy locations, and they also take large cardboard items - think the box a refrigerator comes in.
The last line is the local people who will buy copper and other metals from you. I have bags of wire that I just drop off for them.
Is it all of every recycleable item? That's probably not attainable. But one thing is for certain, precious little makes it into rivers that dump in the ocean. We don't do badly, The first world's contribution to the problem is in microspheres. But we'll take care of that as well.
So let us look at where evil America is in the list of criminals befouling our oceans with plastic. From eco watch: https://www.ecowatch.com/these... Hardly a conservative anti-ecological site. They even have vegan pink hair dye recipes.
China, indonesia, Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand.
90 percent. 90 freaking percent of the plastic pollution. The USA could disappear tomorrow, and it would hardly make a dent in the amount of plastic dumped in the ocean.
So no, the USA does not recycle 100 percent of all materials. I'm skeptical that anyone is. Oh, bullshit - no one is. But worrying over our lack of perfection, to blame it on us, while 90 percent is coming from elsewhere is simply irrational. And won't fix the problem either.
Almost all the plastic trash going into the sea is coming from a handful of rivers in Asia & Africa. So why not put this plastic trap at the river mouths of those high trash rivers, like the Ganges or Yangtze?
As you can see just by the posts in here, a lot of people simply want to blame the USA.
Weird, when the problem is completely visible and undeniable to people who are rational, and can look at pictures and video and see the sources.
Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country, something we painfully learned a few years back.
They won't do it themselves after flushing plastic into the pacific for 50 years, and now the ungratefulness when this Dutch guy and his non-profit can't clean up their mess properly. Wow. Just how quickly Americans think the world owes them something.
Fascinating, my dear coward. Perhaps you could enlighten us on how China and Africa dumping almost the entirety of oceanic plastic is the fault of teh evilz 'murricans?
I dunno, me hearty - do we want to actually fix this problem? If we do, we don't wait until the plastic assembles into a gyre in the middle of the ocean. We stop it at the source. And we know exactly where the sources are. And they aren't in the evilz 'murrica.
But it is easier to just have a blame target for everything I suppose, making you more of a prejudiced bigot than those you hate.
But I'm not certain we are looking after both. If the well known sources of this problem were to stop dumping plastics, the problem would largely disappear.
At that point the remaining problem would be the plastic microspheres. That is something the first world has to own.
Not the large scale dumping of plastics into the ocean from Africa and China.
I get the UN notices, and darned if they don't try to lay the blame for this at our feet.
Now if we're serious about this and don't want to play the cards against the modern world game, a source based solution might be:
Recycling plastic waste. We do it here in the USA.
If we want to pump money into it, help African nations that cause much of the problem build the plants to do this. China is a problem, but leadership has proven sensitive to shame. Right now since it is somehow not their fault, there is no reason for them to stop.
The problem nations can collect the plastic at the point where it enters the ocean at first. Hopefully they would start a recycling program that doesn't involve sewerizing their rivers, but that's more of an internal problem.
Because much of any damage that is done happens before the plastics settle into a mid ocean gyre, we really do have to see this ocean vacuum"solution" as a lame one based more on political considerations of who is easiest to blame.
The same reason that most profitable car companies are now relocating into Right To Work states. The unions latched onto GM like a vampire and drained it of it's life force.
Ahh, the old "parasites" argument. Whenever the armchair industrialists want to whine about uppity workers expecting decent pay and working conditions, this oldie always gets pulled out.
It's the old "When all of these damn people working are laid off, and if no one is working any more, the profit margins will be great."
Funny how these brilliant folks simply do not understand that in order to buy shit, people have to have money to buy that shit.
Slashdot Mirror
Well I guess this means it's going to be possible to get the "forgotten" info using a VPN with a server located outside of EU and other asshole countries (my own included) that require the enforcement of this bullshit "right".
The problem with "The Right to be Forgotten" is that short of walling off portions of the Internet, it won't work.
As well, it's a short hop skip and a jump to come up with all manner of rationales that certain information on the network is not to be allowed.
Seeing where the EU is heading, I would suggest that the EU use it's superior knowledge and moral imperative, and implement that wall. They can produce a 21st century internet version of the Volksempfänger and be blissful that any and all information can be blocked as the EU sees fit.
All it proves is that women licked the brushes. Knowing the way that men have mistreated women over the centuries, I would not be surprised if a talented artist who didn't like to lick his own brush was given a woman to do the unpleasant task for him.
This is the dumbest thing I've read all day. Are you getting some sort of weird sexual thrill imagining a bevy of beautiful naked women tied to posts, being forced to lick the male artist's brushes, and heaven knows what else?
Because that's exactly what the bullshit you just wrote reads like.
You must have flunked art class. Artists over the millenniums have all licked their own brushes, and there are a number of different points that can be placed on a brush. No way the artist doing the work would have someone else lick their brushes.
The practice is pretty much discouraged today, as many of the pigments are poisonous.
In fact, if you want a modern day horror story regarding brush licking, the plight of the radium girls is illustrative :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls . While this is sometimes used as a Casus belli against the patriarchy, it is an illustration of the reverse. We don't hear much about the plight of the men who produced the radium that poisoned these women - it is of no interest for some reason. Make no mistake, radiation is a true title 9 poison.
This has been a well known fact for centuries, the whole point of TFA and the significance of the discovery is actually presented in TFS which states: "The researchers said this challenged long-held beliefs that women had played little role in the European Middle Ages in producing literary and written texts which came largely from religious institutions,"
The interesting thing about this challenging of long held beliefs is that while on the surface, those who would claim women's oppression might be saying "see. See, SEE?! Muh oppression" - one of the fundamental drivers of modern feminism is that the Christian Church is one of the primary drivers of institutionalized patriarchal oppression of women.
Some further thought into this matter might lead one to think that it is a strange oppressive patriarchy that elevates women to prestigious positions based on merit. People here are busy arguing about literacy, kinda missing the point that talent is a valuable asset as well.
note - my point isn't that the angry desert gawd's followers don't have some severely screwed up ideas about women. It's just that this bit of historical knowledge sort of messes with the beliefs of modern feminism. Perhaps this knowledge should be suppressed?
Temporary Container Tabs + Cookie Autodelete + uBlock.
Enjoy.
That would be okay. Be sure to verify it.
That's some next level paranoia you have there. It's good, and i hope this paranoia extends to all platforms and not just Android.
You can be relatively sure since you can compare the AOSP version with that of your phone.
By the way - not certain who you were calling next level paranoid.
At the present time, smartphones can't really be made safe.
As for the paranoia, if you are okay with Facebook weaponizing your data, what you buy, what websites you visit, what you post, your political opinions, and selling it to groups who have agendas that might harm you or help you - I don't care. I don't care if you want to tell the three letter agencies your life history,
Perhaps you might be interested in just who is trying to access your computer devices, perhaps not.
Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
And the topic was about the Facebook app. Not sure how your script blocker and going to the web app has anything to do with the discussion.
Well, if you aren't sure how that is applicable, allow me to explain.
AC very distinctly posted "You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account."
That is wrong - that is not even wrong, it's the opposite of right.
Which is why I very distinctly posted: "Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application."
And since some folks do not understand or believe that, I offered, very distinctly, a way to prove that very fact. A fact it is.
Summary of all of this - the aarticle we are talking about is how Facebook is not removeable from smartphones - AC incorrectly posted that having no account is not sharing data. This is completely and demonstrably wrong, and I simply noted that you are sharing personal data with Facebook if you do not have an account with them.
Back to your statement:
Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
Viewpoints, friend, do not invalidate facts. I'll believe his "Viewpoint" as a fact when he offers a way to prove that his phone never offers any data to Facebook. It takes some serious effort to block data sharing with them, and not having an account does not block them, and disabled FB app does not either.
Me? I can prove it does if you go to many pages on the internet, unless you kill the tracking scripts. No Facebook App needed, and no Facebook account needed. FB is tracking you You can prove it too, my example uses a laptop/desktop example, but the fundamentals apply. About the best you can do for a phone is disable javascript.
Same, this is not news,
Consider that some people might not know this yet.
I've known that Facebook and some others are pretty cancerous for years. That doesn't mean that I refuse to tell anyone about it because I happen to know about it. Y'all need to understand that there are more people out there than yourselves.
It has been like that since I know smartphone. How can this be new?!?!?!?
I don't recall anyone saying this is something that was implemented yesterday. It is a story about how a person was surprised to find out about the practice. So he's telling people about it. Many people who don't already know about the practice. It's news to them.
Do you think that you should be the final arbiter of what should or should not be reported?
Are you the first person that ever knew this - if not, there probably a lot of people before you who knew it, and they never should have told you - old news, you know, wasting the intelligent people's time.
It is also the reason I buy unlocked phones, my latest one, Nokia 6.1, is an Android One phone and no bloatware installed.
How is buying an unlocked phone even news any more? Practice what you preach. Meanwhile, I just file this under a chance to give some folks some knowledge. If they already know, they can scroll on by.
Exactly. I've been mentioning this very issue since 2015 at least. What the article failed to mention (or maybe my reading skills suck) is that on older phones which hadn't had Facebook embedded, the app will come bundled with a "security update" which installs it in such a way it can't be uninstalled. Now THAT is fucked up. Bundled shit out-of-the-box? OK, yeah, contracts and whatnot. Forcefully bundling shit as part of a "security update"? That's LOW.
Yup, it is pretty low.
I think any solution - if possible, would actually involve a Linux based phone, and an environment that allows the user to have access to tools like wireshark. A repository program environment.
There are some Linux smartphone alternatives, but I'm not certain I'd call any of them ready for prime time. And as much as I'd like that, talk about a niche market. Phones and tablets are not aimed at the power user, but more like the intellectually challenged.
Unlucky you. I bought a Samsung note4. Came with various crap apps. I stopped & disabled them, and uninstalled their updates in order to save space.
How did you confirm that disabling them stopped them from sharing data?
My feelings exactly. I have had a Galaxy S6 since it was first released (nearly 4 years ago) and have never been able to delete the Facebook app (or some other apps, for that matter). Not sure why this is somehow news now.
I see. The old" I have seen this, so it must never ever be reported ever again!" The geeks version of "Stay off my Lawn!"
Sorry Anonymous Coward, it's pretty obvious from the posts in this thread that a lot of people didn't know, and it is a good thing for them to know.
In the been there, done that category, this is not unusual on PCs either. A simple program uninstall usually leaves a hellava lot of debris behind. Uninstalling say, Microsoft Office seems just like removing the icons.
Try using a product like Revo, uninstall some program, and select deep scan for leftovers. (don't restart after the program's uninstaller finishes) then look at what the deep scan shows you. Some programs just leave registry items, some pretty much everything.
I do not know if there is a comparable product for phones. There should be.
And since you already know everything, this is not for you. It is for people who might not know yet.
It is funny that people act like you are either agreeing to share and sharing all your data with a company or nothing at all. So predictable. You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
Does Facebook have paid shills now?
Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application.
Don't believe me? Try this:
Have a fresh shiny new account with no memberships anywhere.
Install a script blocker. One that you can look up which scripts are being blocked
Go to some popular website
Now take that list and see just who is being blocked. You'll have to look them up. Google has the decency to identify themselves, Facebook hides multiple cryptically named trackers, often several to a page. Whois is your friend. Or not.
Enjoy.
The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.
At least the phone has a headphone jack, so no problem........
I'll just show myself out...
Get planting milkweed folks. The butterflies have had a rough time this past year in Cali, and the best way to help them is feeding them.
The problem would not disappear. We still need to remove the plastic already there. Both removal and prevention are necessary.
Sure. But my point is not that what is there doesn't have to be cleaned up.
But if we clean it up without any mitigation on the part of those who are actually causing the problem, and those are actually responsible for the problem, they have absolutely zero reason to stop doing what they should be responsible for. Just keep blaming it on the first world.
You're gonna have to explain that.
Gladly. Shithole nations are followers in every way. We brought them technology, products, processes, and money by the bucketload. The Vietnamese who are pouring mountains of plastic into the ocean didn't invent these, they were introduced to them by western nations.
As such pointing the finger to their waste without demonstrating a suitable alternative is disingenuous.
Fascinating rationale. Problem is, the alternative to just plopping the plastics into a river that ends up in the ocean has been around a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... . Especially that in some of these countries, labor is in ready supply, and one of the issues - that of sorting - can be largely taken care of.
They learnt to drink from plastic bottles from us, it's up to us to demonstrate that they can live without it too.
I doubt that living without plastic is practical. Recycling is practical.
Despite my flippant comment the USA still is the most powerful nation in the world. Do not underestimate the amount of influence it has on waste from these countries. And despite my comment I don't call out USA alone here. All western nations have a role to play, not the least those such as Australia who actively exported their plastic waste to they very countries which are accused of polluting the oceans with it.
We should once again become the leaders we have always claimed to be.
There seems to be an undercurrent that China buys this plastic, then dumps it. Strange business model, that. What they did do, was process plastic and paper. Did do, because they stopped https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
Now, between you and me and the voices in our heads, there is precious little that the US can do by itself. Or Europe. We can stop sending our recyclables to China, and do our own recycling, that's been taken care of by the Chinese. We can do other countries recycling, I suppose. That really seems like the sort of thing individual countries should do.
Probably the only thing that might work is the present United Nations effort. But it is kind of weird, having to act like it is the USA's problem, while making rah rah about the efforts in the countries that are responsible. http://web.unep.org/unepmap/un... . Note that particular link is pretty innocuous, but I receive notices, some acting like the USA banning plastic straws for waxed paper ones will cure the problem. Or that these brave intrepid countries are cleaning the oceans of the USA's criminal activities.
So I guess they have figured that they need to lowkey pump the very fashionable hatred of the USA and sneak some concept of non-piggishness to these countries through the back door to get things done. Global politics, amirite?
In the end, the concept of those doing the inventing - (do you blame Charles Goodyear, Alexander Parkes, or the person who discovered chicle?) as responsible for the utterly disgusting habits of other people is stretching logic to the snapping point of a synthetic rubber band.
In fact, this problem has at base the problem of too damn many people.
But there is a worse problem. Does one improve the health and fecundity of people who might have simply lived short lives in step with their mental outlook, or is one better to leave them alone and eliminate the problems that occur from over rapid population growth? In the weirdest twist of the blame the USA bogeyman, we are sort of responsible for extending the lifespan of people in these countries.
Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country
Oh? I thought you were the most powerful country in the world. How far you seem to have fallen.
You're gonna have to explain that. I can't fit it into the context of what we are talking about.
Explain how reducing the US's plastic oceanic pollution is going to eliminate plastic in the ocean. If the USA didn't exist, would it have to be invented so you had something to blame it on?
I understand that I'm an idiot, but in most cases, a problem can be fixed by treating the source of the problem. Me? My way of approaching the problem is to stop it at the source. We ain't the source.
" Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country, something we painfully learned a few years back"
Which country is that? Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Yugoslavia? Vietnam? The painful lessons were learned by the people living in those countries, not the attackers
Read my post - including the part you quoted.
And while you strut around like a little cock-a-whoop as if you made a point - you are doing exactly the same thing. Which ironically means you support the US attacking the wrong countries. I don't, dear coward. In any circumstance.
We recycle.... by putting it on boats to China. China shut that down last year during the tariff fight.
If they don't want it any more, we'll find a different way to recycle it. But we won't chuck it into the rivers.
fixing the post (HTML on mobile is an adventure: no "preview"):
All? (Some is recycled here in Brazil too... Some cities here do almost all: that's not enough, not even close...)
Perfect is surely the pernicious enemy of good. We have four recycling setups here where I am. One is the municipal, which takes glass, aluminum, most plastics, paper and cardboard. Large metallic items can be dropped off at our transfer station gratis. Oddball plastics that are recyclable are now being taken at the nature conservancy locations, and they also take large cardboard items - think the box a refrigerator comes in.
The last line is the local people who will buy copper and other metals from you. I have bags of wire that I just drop off for them.
Is it all of every recycleable item? That's probably not attainable. But one thing is for certain, precious little makes it into rivers that dump in the ocean. We don't do badly, The first world's contribution to the problem is in microspheres. But we'll take care of that as well.
So let us look at where evil America is in the list of criminals befouling our oceans with plastic. From eco watch: https://www.ecowatch.com/these... Hardly a conservative anti-ecological site. They even have vegan pink hair dye recipes. China, indonesia, Phillipines, Vietnam, Thailand.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2018...
90 percent. 90 freaking percent of the plastic pollution. The USA could disappear tomorrow, and it would hardly make a dent in the amount of plastic dumped in the ocean.
So no, the USA does not recycle 100 percent of all materials. I'm skeptical that anyone is. Oh, bullshit - no one is. But worrying over our lack of perfection, to blame it on us, while 90 percent is coming from elsewhere is simply irrational. And won't fix the problem either.
Almost all the plastic trash going into the sea is coming from a handful of rivers in Asia & Africa. So why not put this plastic trap at the river mouths of those high trash rivers, like the Ganges or Yangtze?
As you can see just by the posts in here, a lot of people simply want to blame the USA.
Weird, when the problem is completely visible and undeniable to people who are rational, and can look at pictures and video and see the sources.
Rational people also understand that you don't fix problems by attacking the wrong country, something we painfully learned a few years back.
They won't do it themselves after flushing plastic into the pacific for 50 years, and now the ungratefulness when this Dutch guy and his non-profit can't clean up their mess properly. Wow. Just how quickly Americans think the world owes them something.
Fascinating, my dear coward. Perhaps you could enlighten us on how China and Africa dumping almost the entirety of oceanic plastic is the fault of teh evilz 'murricans?
I dunno, me hearty - do we want to actually fix this problem? If we do, we don't wait until the plastic assembles into a gyre in the middle of the ocean. We stop it at the source. And we know exactly where the sources are. And they aren't in the evilz 'murrica.
But it is easier to just have a blame target for everything I suppose, making you more of a prejudiced bigot than those you hate.
Let us know how that works out for ya, mkay?
both have to be looked after...
But I'm not certain we are looking after both. If the well known sources of this problem were to stop dumping plastics, the problem would largely disappear.
At that point the remaining problem would be the plastic microspheres. That is something the first world has to own.
Not the large scale dumping of plastics into the ocean from Africa and China.
I get the UN notices, and darned if they don't try to lay the blame for this at our feet.
Now if we're serious about this and don't want to play the cards against the modern world game, a source based solution might be:
Recycling plastic waste. We do it here in the USA.
If we want to pump money into it, help African nations that cause much of the problem build the plants to do this. China is a problem, but leadership has proven sensitive to shame. Right now since it is somehow not their fault, there is no reason for them to stop.
The problem nations can collect the plastic at the point where it enters the ocean at first. Hopefully they would start a recycling program that doesn't involve sewerizing their rivers, but that's more of an internal problem.
Because much of any damage that is done happens before the plastics settle into a mid ocean gyre, we really do have to see this ocean vacuum"solution" as a lame one based more on political considerations of who is easiest to blame.
But do you fit my asshole? That is the real question...
You'd never go back to sheep.
Screaming right-wing the second anyone doesn't agree with you?
Right - Asshole fits you much better.
The same reason that most profitable car companies are now relocating into Right To Work states. The unions latched onto GM like a vampire and drained it of it's life force.
Ahh, the old "parasites" argument. Whenever the armchair industrialists want to whine about uppity workers expecting decent pay and working conditions, this oldie always gets pulled out.
It's the old "When all of these damn people working are laid off, and if no one is working any more, the profit margins will be great."
Funny how these brilliant folks simply do not understand that in order to buy shit, people have to have money to buy that shit.