It DOES flash the drive. You DO need to run it in IDE mode (you need an IDE host OS / two SATA controllers, one in IDE and one hosting your OS).
There have been TWO firmware updates since launch, not FIVE, focusing on performance, TRIM, and some mac power situation.
It is clear that legit reviews doesn't know much about these drives if they see the firmware list and say there have been 5 updates over the last couple of months. There are in fact 4 versions listed in the guide, and only 2 of them are revisions since launch. 1 is pre-launch and 1 is the launch, big fix version.
1199 Was the shipping, big-fix version, then:
â Version 1275 (March, 2009) (Description: Improved raid 0 mode performance) â Performance is improved when drive is installed on RAID0 mode host â Maximum LBA number is modified according to the JEDEC standard â Modifications of internal data structure used by FW (stamp) â Improved write joining â Improved FPDMA transfer mode
â Version 1.10 (April 7, 2009) â Feature Add : TRIM support is added â Apple Mac Pro sleep/wake up support added â Updater improved â Bad block management function improved
I don't own a Vertex, so I don't know if flashing the firmware wipes the drive.
If so, that's ridiculous.
"OCZ is working on a firmware update utility that doesn't erase al your data, but it is in the early beta stages right now with no known release date."
Either way, since it has to be run in IDE mode, a lot of people wouldn't be able to run it without booting to another OS on another drive. (As an example, all my shit is RAIDed up, an dif I broke the RAID array to go into IDE mode, I wouldn't be able to get into my OS.)
Either way, new hardware always goes though growing pains, and it's obvious that the Vertex is as well. A few users are experiencing issues, and it may be a pain to flash the drive, but that's what always happens to early adopters.
I see all of this as positives for OCZ - they're listening to feedback and providing support and communication.
It's obvious you knew nothing, and just kept on internetting to find a scenario that would work.
You were confusing driver signing with this, you were confusing SFC with this.
By your own admission:
EXEs and such downloaded from the internet have their zone set as such, and will put up a warning.
ANYTHING you run that needs admin access in Vista or 7 will require UAC confirmation.
EXEs and such falsely named will have their names look visibly different form other items they're trying to masquerade as: ASS.TXT appears as "ASS", MORON.TXT.EXE appears as "MORON.TXT".
The only thing you can offer up is some moron getting a virus through sneakernet, or some dipshit downloading a zipped up virus.
Either way, you're not getting around the install check or the UAC without alerting the user.
What do you want - a popup for every bit of executable code? Do you want ALL EXECUTABLE CODE OUT THERE to be flagged as potentially dangerous?
If you really can't fathom burning a CD, you can either buy a disk at not much above cost, or even request a free one be sent to you in the post (although the latter option takes a few weeks to be delivered).
Meant buying a cheap hard drive, slapping it in, and using the Wubi installer or something to do a live "install" of Ubuntu/etc onto the second disk.
I didn't think it flowed well with the rest of your post, but I still assumed hard drive because you spelled "disk" with a "k", and asking average users to go out and buy a Linux distro is even more unfathomable. These are the people who need help from Gamestop employees about which version of Madden they want to buy for their brats.
Disk with a k = hard drive (sometimes floppy). Disc with a c = optical disc. Diskette = floppy.
OCZ is going to launch the Vertex EX series, which looks like it's just a Vertex with SLC chips instead of MLC (to compete with Intel's X25-E).
Bottom line is, Tom's Hardware used the old firmware for their review. Also, Tom's Hardware is a terrible site with a notorious reputation for selling out and being money hatted (though in this case, it's just a case of using the older firmware and not updating their review after anandtech broke the news).
Are you really the storage editor for pc perspective?
The new Vertex drives do NOT rely on the TRIM command, as the command isn't supported by any OS (I know of) yet, and drives don't support it either (though they may later through firmware updates).
It's odd that you mention the 80 MB/sec cap of the Intel drive, yet you ignore this:
Ryan said weâ(TM)d lose some sequential write performance. The drive would no longer be capable of 230MB/s writes, perhaps only down to 80 or 90MB/s now. I told him it didnâ(TM)t matter, that write latency needed to come down and if it were at the sacrifice of sequential throughput then itâ(TM)d be fine. He asked me if I was sure, I said yes. I still didnâ(TM)t think he could do it.
Hmmmm....
OCZ has solved it to the same degree Intel has. If you have further insight into the differences between the problems faced by OCZ and Intel, and their respective solutions, please, share it.
"Note that every single benchmark here was run with the drive in a âoeusedâ state. Again, I did so by performing a secure erase on the drive, filling it to capacity, then restoring my test bed image over the partition. I can definitely make the drives benchmark faster, but Iâ(TM)m trying to provide performance data that shows you how your drive will behave after youâ(TM)ve owned it for a while."
The Vertex beats the X25-M by 31.5% in sequential writes according to the anandtech article. Keep in mind this is after the guy fuckfilled the drive to get it to act like the worst case scenario.
Let's be clear here:
OCZ Vertex drives had a large latency on random writes. Anandtech guy said "this is retarded, dude", and OCZ fixed it (sacrificing sequential write speed).
Intel's M drives did not suffer from the same problem, though their max sequential write speed was pretty much the same (on paper) as that of the fixed Vertex drives.
ALL SSDs slow down as you use them. Intel recently did an update to improve their drives. As you mentioned, that 80 MB/sec sequential write that we see on paper is what you get, no matter what, with the Intel drives.
The Vertex drives, in their slowed state, hit around 90 MB/sec.
It's a clear cut case of manufacturers responding to criticism, and making adjustments that end up favoring consistent, real-world performance over numbers on a box.
As far as I know, this is the one of the only reviews (if not the only) at the time of publication thatâ(TM)s using the new Vertex firmware. Everything else is based on the old firmware which did not make it to production. Keep that in mind if youâ(TM)re looking to compare numbers or wondering why the drives behave differently across reviews. The old firmware never shipped thanks to OCZ's quick acting, so if you own one of these drives - you have a fixed version.
IMPORTANT NOTE: To continually improve and optimize the Vertex SSD for the latest platforms OCZ will constantly release new firmware updates. Detailed firmware information can be found on our support forums and a step-by-step flashing guide is available here
All VERTEX drives contain the good controller. Just upgrade the firmware when you get it if you're worried. Either way, the good controller with the "bad" firmware is still awesome.
The OTHER OCZ drives are using the older crappy controller all other consumer SSDs use. Only Intel and OCZ Vertex drives have decent controllers (as far as I know) right now.
If I didn't have several free, valid, no-activation licenses my parents, and possibly a friend's parents, would be running Ubuntu right now. My brother is on Vista (64) and XP (32) because he plays games and I had a Vista license I wasn't going to ever use. For what he uses, it's more than fine and I don't think he's ever booted into XP. If it wasn't for the games, he too would be on Ubuntu.
Yeah, the licenses are non-transferable so they're technically not legit licenses. Tough shit.
On the legit "you have to activate me" licenses I have, I always have to phone it in since I've done more than one installation and the online thing rejects me. You just say "1" when they ask how many computers you're using it on.
The activation thing is annoying, but it's relatively painless.
I'm out of free licenses for XP/Vista now. (I think I have a 32-bit Vista license, but I don't know where I put it.)
Yeah, the whole gendered nouns bullshit in more latiny languages (like Spanish/Italian) never made sense to me.
Yup, I know of German's neuter gender.
I can understand people being miffed at the fact that the male pronoun is considered the "default" and is used when something is arbitrary or not specified.
But the backlash against it is ridiculous and petty, and so is stuff like "womyn", "herstory", and complaints about the usage of "man" or "mankind" in reference to the species/society.
Related, I think it's interesting that, while we don't have gendered nouns, we often assign a "default" gender to animals (in the US at least). Cats (the domestic pet kind) are typically referred to as female, while dogs have a slight leaning toward male.
"I got a cat last week." "How old is she?"
"I got a dog last week." "What breed is he?"
Spiders are generally referred to as female, and smaller mammals are generally referred to as males. I want to say the spider bias is due to the size difference between males and females (and thus the size of / lack of webs), but people are dumb and ignorant, so I'd just as soon place it on Charlotte's Web. Raccoons / rodents will often get the "That damn raccoon got into our garbage can again last night! I'm gonna kill him!".
These are the same dumbasses who refuse to pay for an operating system and mock MS's spin about WGA.
MS is correct, but is of course exaggerating horribly. There are plenty of clean, pirate-friendly isos out there, all one has to do is read the comments section.
Why try to stop the piracy? They would be far better-served by selling the Home/Pro versions of the OS at $99 / $149 and allowing easy transport of licenses.
They only lose tons of money when trying to stop piracy.
I WOULD pay for it if it meant I could have a physical copy of the OS (on a PRESSED disc) and I didn't have to deal with activation and other such bullshit.
I would encourage others to "just buy it" if it meant I could easily wipe their Dell and install using their key/disc (seriously, supply customers with the OS installation media, not just an image of your machine on a hidden partition on the hard drive!).
The big money is always in the volume licensing, and OEMs.
The only logical thing I can think of is the OEMs bitching at MS to fight piracy and to keep the MSRP up while keeping their severely discounted rates low.
OEMs need margins wherever they can get them, after all.
Well yes, I meant kernel. (I could go on and on about how "operating systems" have become operating environments and need to be pared back to their core functionality and separated from user land).
The 3, 3.25, etc. limit is due to memory-mapped I/O, and the biggest sink today is graphics cards.
Yes, the US. They'll take your shit easily if they want to.
The Constitution does not apply. At best they'll give you monetary compensation (which is ALWAYS on the low end of the true value) and tell you to GTFO.
Slashdot Mirror
"Every penny counts in balancing the budget."
But passing out a few trillion here or there to crooks and morons is good for us. Trust me.
I'm an insensitive clod, you!
I'm a tuna sandwich, you contemptuous clod!
I read through the OCZ firmware update guide.
It DOES flash the drive.
You DO need to run it in IDE mode (you need an IDE host OS / two SATA controllers, one in IDE and one hosting your OS).
There have been TWO firmware updates since launch, not FIVE, focusing on performance, TRIM, and some mac power situation.
It is clear that legit reviews doesn't know much about these drives if they see the firmware list and say there have been 5 updates over the last couple of months. There are in fact 4 versions listed in the guide, and only 2 of them are revisions since launch. 1 is pre-launch and 1 is the launch, big fix version.
1199 Was the shipping, big-fix version, then:
â Version 1275 (March, 2009) (Description: Improved raid 0 mode performance)
â Performance is improved when drive is installed on RAID0 mode host
â Maximum LBA number is modified according to the JEDEC standard
â Modifications of internal data structure used by FW (stamp)
â Improved write joining
â Improved FPDMA transfer mode
â Version 1.10 (April 7, 2009)
â Feature Add : TRIM support is added
â Apple Mac Pro sleep/wake up support added
â Updater improved
â Bad block management function improved
I don't own a Vertex, so I don't know if flashing the firmware wipes the drive.
If so, that's ridiculous.
"OCZ is working on a firmware update utility that doesn't erase al your data, but it is in the early beta stages right now with no known release date."
Either way, since it has to be run in IDE mode, a lot of people wouldn't be able to run it without booting to another OS on another drive. (As an example, all my shit is RAIDed up, an dif I broke the RAID array to go into IDE mode, I wouldn't be able to get into my OS.)
Either way, new hardware always goes though growing pains, and it's obvious that the Vertex is as well. A few users are experiencing issues, and it may be a pain to flash the drive, but that's what always happens to early adopters.
I see all of this as positives for OCZ - they're listening to feedback and providing support and communication.
This is /. dude.
MS is shit.
MS is insecure.
Year of the Linux Desktop!
FUCK OFF, PUPPY, GOOGLE IS MY BEST FRIEND NOW.
Man, you just keep digging, don't you?
It's obvious you knew nothing, and just kept on internetting to find a scenario that would work.
You were confusing driver signing with this, you were confusing SFC with this.
By your own admission:
EXEs and such downloaded from the internet have their zone set as such, and will put up a warning.
ANYTHING you run that needs admin access in Vista or 7 will require UAC confirmation.
EXEs and such falsely named will have their names look visibly different form other items they're trying to masquerade as: ASS.TXT appears as "ASS", MORON.TXT.EXE appears as "MORON.TXT".
The only thing you can offer up is some moron getting a virus through sneakernet, or some dipshit downloading a zipped up virus.
Either way, you're not getting around the install check or the UAC without alerting the user.
What do you want - a popup for every bit of executable code? Do you want ALL EXECUTABLE CODE OUT THERE to be flagged as potentially dangerous?
Reach some more.
I thought this:
If you really can't fathom burning a CD, you can either buy a disk at not much above cost, or even request a free one be sent to you in the post (although the latter option takes a few weeks to be delivered).
Meant buying a cheap hard drive, slapping it in, and using the Wubi installer or something to do a live "install" of Ubuntu/etc onto the second disk.
I didn't think it flowed well with the rest of your post, but I still assumed hard drive because you spelled "disk" with a "k", and asking average users to go out and buy a Linux distro is even more unfathomable. These are the people who need help from Gamestop employees about which version of Madden they want to buy for their brats.
Disk with a k = hard drive (sometimes floppy).
Disc with a c = optical disc.
Diskette = floppy.
Factually incorrect.
Tom's Hardware did not review the Vertex with the new firmware. ONLY Anandtech did, and they published on March 18th, 2009.
There are THREE different controllers in use by OCZ.
Vertex: Indilink Barefoot
Apex: 2 Jmicron JMF602s
Summit: A Samsung controller
OCZ is going to launch the Vertex EX series, which looks like it's just a Vertex with SLC chips instead of MLC (to compete with Intel's X25-E).
Bottom line is, Tom's Hardware used the old firmware for their review. Also, Tom's Hardware is a terrible site with a notorious reputation for selling out and being money hatted (though in this case, it's just a case of using the older firmware and not updating their review after anandtech broke the news).
Are you really the storage editor for pc perspective?
The new Vertex drives do NOT rely on the TRIM command, as the command isn't supported by any OS (I know of) yet, and drives don't support it either (though they may later through firmware updates).
It's odd that you mention the 80 MB/sec cap of the Intel drive, yet you ignore this:
Ryan said weâ(TM)d lose some sequential write performance. The drive would no longer be capable of 230MB/s writes, perhaps only down to 80 or 90MB/s now. I told him it didnâ(TM)t matter, that write latency needed to come down and if it were at the sacrifice of sequential throughput then itâ(TM)d be fine. He asked me if I was sure, I said yes. I still didnâ(TM)t think he could do it.
Hmmmm....
OCZ has solved it to the same degree Intel has.
If you have further insight into the differences between the problems faced by OCZ and Intel, and their respective solutions, please, share it.
"Note that every single benchmark here was run with the drive in a âoeusedâ state. Again, I did so by performing a secure erase on the drive, filling it to capacity, then restoring my test bed image over the partition. I can definitely make the drives benchmark faster, but Iâ(TM)m trying to provide performance data that shows you how your drive will behave after youâ(TM)ve owned it for a while."
The Vertex beats the X25-M by 31.5% in sequential writes according to the anandtech article. Keep in mind this is after the guy fuckfilled the drive to get it to act like the worst case scenario.
Let's be clear here:
OCZ Vertex drives had a large latency on random writes. Anandtech guy said "this is retarded, dude", and OCZ fixed it (sacrificing sequential write speed).
Intel's M drives did not suffer from the same problem, though their max sequential write speed was pretty much the same (on paper) as that of the fixed Vertex drives.
ALL SSDs slow down as you use them.
Intel recently did an update to improve their drives. As you mentioned, that 80 MB/sec sequential write that we see on paper is what you get, no matter what, with the Intel drives.
The Vertex drives, in their slowed state, hit around 90 MB/sec.
It's a clear cut case of manufacturers responding to criticism, and making adjustments that end up favoring consistent, real-world performance over numbers on a box.
I know, it's scary.
Found it.
As far as I know, this is the one of the only reviews (if not the only) at the time of publication thatâ(TM)s using the new Vertex firmware. Everything else is based on the old firmware which did not make it to production. Keep that in mind if youâ(TM)re looking to compare numbers or wondering why the drives behave differently across reviews. The old firmware never shipped thanks to OCZ's quick acting, so if you own one of these drives - you have a fixed version.
IMPORTANT NOTE: To continually improve and optimize the Vertex SSD for the latest platforms OCZ will constantly release new firmware updates. Detailed firmware information can be found on our support forums and a step-by-step flashing guide is available here
All VERTEX drives contain the good controller.
Just upgrade the firmware when you get it if you're worried. Either way, the good controller with the "bad" firmware is still awesome.
The OTHER OCZ drives are using the older crappy controller all other consumer SSDs use. Only Intel and OCZ Vertex drives have decent controllers (as far as I know) right now.
If I didn't have several free, valid, no-activation licenses my parents, and possibly a friend's parents, would be running Ubuntu right now.
My brother is on Vista (64) and XP (32) because he plays games and I had a Vista license I wasn't going to ever use. For what he uses, it's more than fine and I don't think he's ever booted into XP. If it wasn't for the games, he too would be on Ubuntu.
Yeah, the licenses are non-transferable so they're technically not legit licenses. Tough shit.
On the legit "you have to activate me" licenses I have, I always have to phone it in since I've done more than one installation and the online thing rejects me. You just say "1" when they ask how many computers you're using it on.
The activation thing is annoying, but it's relatively painless.
I'm out of free licenses for XP/Vista now. (I think I have a 32-bit Vista license, but I don't know where I put it.)
OCZ Vertex drives have new controllers with good frimware.
Get your facts right.
This is old news, and both the Intel drives and the OCZ Vertex have updated firmwares/controllers that remedy (but do not completely solve) the issue.
When we get support for TRIM, it will be even less of an issue, even on cheapo drives with crappy controllers/firmware.
The issue won't be completely solved ever, because of how SSD arranges flash memory and how flash memory can't really be overwritten in a single pass.
See anandtech's write up if you want details.
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3531
At the very least, toning down the (pointless) arms race will save them tons of money.
Yeah, the whole gendered nouns bullshit in more latiny languages (like Spanish/Italian) never made sense to me.
Yup, I know of German's neuter gender.
I can understand people being miffed at the fact that the male pronoun is considered the "default" and is used when something is arbitrary or not specified.
But the backlash against it is ridiculous and petty, and so is stuff like "womyn", "herstory", and complaints about the usage of "man" or "mankind" in reference to the species/society.
Related, I think it's interesting that, while we don't have gendered nouns, we often assign a "default" gender to animals (in the US at least). Cats (the domestic pet kind) are typically referred to as female, while dogs have a slight leaning toward male.
"I got a cat last week."
"How old is she?"
"I got a dog last week."
"What breed is he?"
Spiders are generally referred to as female, and smaller mammals are generally referred to as males. I want to say the spider bias is due to the size difference between males and females (and thus the size of / lack of webs), but people are dumb and ignorant, so I'd just as soon place it on Charlotte's Web. Raccoons / rodents will often get the "That damn raccoon got into our garbage can again last night! I'm gonna kill him!".
These are the same dumbasses who refuse to pay for an operating system and mock MS's spin about WGA.
MS is correct, but is of course exaggerating horribly. There are plenty of clean, pirate-friendly isos out there, all one has to do is read the comments section.
Yup, a lot of vista isos on the net are pre-rooted.
Why try to stop the piracy?
They would be far better-served by selling the Home/Pro versions of the OS at $99 / $149 and allowing easy transport of licenses.
They only lose tons of money when trying to stop piracy.
I WOULD pay for it if it meant I could have a physical copy of the OS (on a PRESSED disc) and I didn't have to deal with activation and other such bullshit.
I would encourage others to "just buy it" if it meant I could easily wipe their Dell and install using their key/disc (seriously, supply customers with the OS installation media, not just an image of your machine on a hidden partition on the hard drive!).
The big money is always in the volume licensing, and OEMs.
The only logical thing I can think of is the OEMs bitching at MS to fight piracy and to keep the MSRP up while keeping their severely discounted rates low.
OEMs need margins wherever they can get them, after all.
Well yes, I meant kernel. (I could go on and on about how "operating systems" have become operating environments and need to be pared back to their core functionality and separated from user land).
The 3, 3.25, etc. limit is due to memory-mapped I/O, and the biggest sink today is graphics cards.
Yes, the US.
They'll take your shit easily if they want to.
The Constitution does not apply.
At best they'll give you monetary compensation (which is ALWAYS on the low end of the true value) and tell you to GTFO.
Q
Filter error: You can type more than that for your comment.
Are you thinking of "Indian Giving"?
(I LOVE the irony of that term!)
No, if Lala goes bankrupt, you can no longer stream free music from them.
The MP3s you bought from them are just MP3s.