I currently have a 256K downlink ADSL and 128K uplink. I pay the phone company over $100, and then the internet side over $100 - they are both the same company if you follow up through the books high enough. In the end, I am paying $250 a month for a 256K connection.
Hell, at work we are on a 128K *frame fucking relay*. (we are trying to get wireless, but the cruise ships block our signal)
To be fair, while everything you say has its points - the fact that they go to ivy league schools - regardless of how they got in - helps them later in life.
They can drink beer and skip all of their classes (although that is hard to do and still stay in school at an ivy league - which is incidentally just a sports league - it just happens to have a few good schools in it), yet they are still going through the social experience with the other people at the school.
so even if these are dipshits that lucked their way into the job - they still have access to their alumni friends once they have their job (or in order to get the job). This is networking. An essential skill in business.
GM has clients all over the world. It is feasible that some company sits through a boring sales presentation and hates some new propsal - but the fact that the VP of Roof Wax went to school with the head dude at the other company - well hot damn! We'll take two!
I'm not saying that is the best way for things to work - it sounds an awful lot liek the bluebloods of yesteryear, born into rights instead of earning them. But the process is how it works - there are ways of getting in on talent and brains, there are ways of sleeping your way in, and then there is birthrights to it.
My family was poor as hell - I went to one of the top schools in the country, and I'm about to start my own company (and am within a few months of leading another company to start up).
I understand how the process works - and I suppose I'm taking advantage of them.
Sorry, I missed the law that forced us to own property and mortgage it.
If you have debts, that is in now way the fault of me, the company you formerly worked for, or the government.
While it may suck huge ass to be in that situation, to expect anyone else to be at fault, or to bail you out is a bit... well, American.
I paid my own way through college because my family was too poor to do it - I envy those that have mom and dad to fall back to as a cushion (to be fair, I had financial aid as well - of the $35K a year, that took care of about $20K - so to say I paid for it isn't as grand as it sounds - I paid for anywhere from $10K-18K a year depending on the year of school). What I meant in terms of the shelter from the real world is that in school, it is frequently the case that you have room and board as part of the tuition, and you are in there for a few years. Many places you can get by without a car. I didn't take into account people that had mortgages.
A large part of the economic crisis right now is that people lived beyond their means. They had a great job that paid well, they went out and bought shit on credit and loans, thinking that they would pay them back with the money from the stock market and these great jobs.
There is a cost/reward basis for everything. It sounds harsh, and hell, bitch all you want - but it probably hurts all that much more to sort of know it was a little short sighted and/or risky.
And also, I only meant going back to school as an example - there are plenty of ways that you can start up a new career, teaching yourself new things. It might suck and you might not like it, but it doesn't necessarily mean going back to school... although I've heard that it is hard to get hired as an autodidactic doctor.
What planet do I live on? Brilliant - I applaud you. After double checking, I'm on Earth. But I suppose that was a rhetorical question, aimed to mock and belittle me - I hurt, deep down inside.
If you don't grasp how people spending money feeds back into the economy - or more importantly, how companies spending money feeds back into the economy - then you are missing probably one of the bigger points to economic theory. If a CEO is spending $60K on a car, someone sold him that car. Someone produced that car. Someone sold the parts to make that car, etc etc etc. It doesn't matter if the companies involved are in the states or not - the point is that it is a global economy right now, so therefore we are adding money to it. If the car company is seeing increased revenue, then they spend more - hiring more people, buying more crap - etc. That feeds around... jesus, do I have to follow the chain forever for you?
The people that whine about the plight of the American worker just reek of lacking in world perspective. Business doesn't live to oppress the worker - they have nothing to gain from oppressing people. They are looking to make money - you weren't oppressed when you got hired in the first place? No - because they were paying *you* and you are special. But if they start to pay someone else, then you bitch and moan? Right on sister.
And sorry, I missed the part about licking boots of people from other countries. I mean, I see you wrote it, but I'm not sure where that falls in with... well, anything. If you have a boot licking thing, that's your call, but I in all seriousness am not seeing what that has to do with globalization. Maybe the places I have worked just happened to be low on the boot licking demand.
And I'm defending this mainly because when I see people saying retarded things and obviously being American in the process, it makes my country look like it is full of retarded self-centered assholes. This is a discussion board full of people form all over the world, and they are seeing what I'm seeing - a bunch of Americans whining "I used to be coooooool... now they don't invite me to the coooool kid parties anymore" - wake up - America is hated right now. Maybe there is a reason for it.
As for who sponsored my H1B - I'm pretty sure that since I was born in the States, and lived there my whole life, I'm probably not even eligible for an H1B. That said, I currently live in Bermuda, so I have my own work permit to be here.
As for freaking out about H1Bs - hell, I have had my job taken by a "filthy dirty ferner" - they were Russian!!! I still can't take enough showers to get over that. Whatever. The Russian would work for less than I would, and the people in charge felt that the Russian would produce equal or better code. I didn't freak out over it, I went out and got another job. I then left that job and moved to Bermuda because I currently have better opportunities now.
As for bankruptcy, thank you - I will keep that in mind. I am currently just an IT bitch, about to spin off into and IT bitch company, and also starting up my own company - so I'm a little busy - but I like to think that instead of bitching about how I deserve this and that - I'm actually doing something about it and getting things done.
hmm, yes, New Jersey. I can think of a few 3rd world countries that have similar drinking water as New Jersey.
NJ is actually a very nice place and has many wealthy little pockets - that is perhaps what he is referring to. Not the sesspool that the turnpike goes through, and which most people associate with when they hear NJ. Well, that and Big Hair chicks.
are you saying that Indians just aren't cut out for programming?
I worked at a job where I had many coworkers that were Indian, and we outsourced a lot of our stuff to our Indian office. The code from those guys SUCKED.
I too figured, hell, them fellas must all be retarded.
But no, then I went and worked at a different company and worked with some of the brightest people I know - they were from India as well.
It turns out, just like the States - people can be total idiots, and people can be really bright.
If anyone is going to present a good arguement here - it should be that India has suffered a serious brain drain throughout the economic boom here in the states. Their best and brightest have come over here on the H1B, leaving behind the ones that would like to also become IT and cash in on that field. That argument makes a bit more sense than "they are different than me, therefore, they must be retarded"
You are apparently making up your own set of Economic rules and laws as you go. You should write a book, as should many others on Slashdot.
First off, it isn't racist, it is probably more xenophobic if anything.
Regardless of what you call it, the fact is you are thinking too narrow minded. The end result is that they are looking to have higher profit margins. Paying a worker from anywhere in the world N dollars allows them to make X profit. If they can then switch out to a higher or equal skill level, but pay N-W (I'm just using random ass variables here), then X increases.
The fact that X increases means that the people that are invested in X, also make more money. There are also the new workers, H1B or not, they too benefit from the increased money made.
As a result - more money is made, more is spent, fed back into the economy - and the original people that are pissed lost their jobs *don't matter* because there are other jobs out there.
Like I have said, they might have to learn new skills if they want to make equal or higher dollars - but in the end, bitching that someone else took their jobs is silly and overlooking the big picture.
If you just aren't getting it, then you can join the illustrious club of many other uneducated Americans that walk around angry that they lost their jobs to all the damn f'ern'ers and save themselves the trouble of wondering how they could have prevented it.
The library is your friend - read up on modern Economic theory and instead of bitching and moaning, maybe you can even learn enough to get that new job that I keep referring to.
if the company outsources its work to India - it isn't like they all of the sudden can no longer make the product. The end product still exists.
If you feel that by moving all programmers (which seems like a hefty and large population to you since you are part of it, and I imagine steelworkers feel that everyone they know is a steelworker, therefore we all are as well?), then the economy will get so bad that the XYZ product will no longer be purchased - that ignores the original discussion. Which is globalization. America buys crap, as does the rest of the world.
If we are spreading the wealth to other countries by employing people there, then they have more money to spend on crap. Hence they too can buy the products.
yeah, I guess on many levels that is it. one doesn't have to like it to still view it with a logical and rational perspective.
hell, the cleaning people at your office might all get fired and replaced with cheaper workers that have snuck over the border from Canada (fucking candians, taking all of our jobs) - the fellows on the way out might look at your lack of caring about their situation and consider you a part of the good ol' boy network as well.
The good old boy network could be a race thing, it could be a college (more likely business school) thing, or it could simply be nepotism.
in the end, the people higher up than you get to make the decisions, and if the only people higher than you are the stockholders, then you aren't going anywhere. whether their motives are selfish, racist, ignorant, or uninformed - they are there.
I personally have no issue with any of it. I have more of a problem if the people that they are replacing me with are dumber than me - because that is hard to do:)
Crest WhiteStrips are available in two forms. There is the kind that you can only get at the dentist, and then the kind you can get over the counter in many drugstores and groceries.
The OTC version is much more dilute, and costs nearly the same as the dentist version.
You are better off going to the dentist and getting those - which are $60 and work - then instead going to the store and buying them for $40 and having them not work.
You are comparing living to the States to living in a Socialist society.
There are freedoms here (lower taxes for one as you say) that you won't have there.
You in fact, have the freedom to leave here and join one of those countries. There is literally nothing on this end stopping you from doing that.
But to demand that you are given a job goes against the priniciples in place here. It did have a place in a thing called "Communism" and as I recall, that system failed.
The Global Economy allows America to grow its wealth to new levels - but the side effect of that is that it spreads that wealth. Being part of America as it expands on globalism means that you too feel the spread of the wealth.
All I'm saying is that if you feel that you are somehow entitled to a job just because you live in the states - that is wrong. You do have the right to seek a job, and you have the right to bitch all you want about not having one. And you have the right to move elsewhere and get a job there, under conditions that suit your needs more.
While I can't speak for Wal-Mart, I can applaud your anon attempt to slam my parents. *golf-clap*
The article states that the jobs are moving out of the country - hence why I referenced that.
The arguement is equally flawed if you are hostile to people coming in and taking jobs. The business world is driven by money - that is the whole point. They aren't out there to make sure that you get paid at a level that you are happy with. They don't even care if you have a job. What they care about is maximizing profit.
It is the same principle - either take lower wages yourself and shut up already, or move. You can go to a country where they pay more. You can learn a new skill.
The fact of the matter is that the US was started because of all immigrants - it seems a bit silly now that we are all here to say "ahh, that was nice - okay, someone shut that door now!"
One could argue that C++ is C++ no matter where in the world you are sitting. But to lead a company takes a skillset that is fairly abstract in the making.
From the point of view of the employees, they see a bunch of guys in suits wandering around, making what seem like bad decisions, and worse yet, lyaing people off for the good of the company value. They seem fairly worthless, and out of my own (limited) experience, it really does seem that a lot of them are just bloat - but that is more middle management IMO.
In terms of the top people, there is a cultrual background that is at play that will likely keep American/European people at the tops of American/European companies, and Asian people at the tops of theirs. I'm sure 80 people will respond with singular references to an anomoly - but for the most part, you can't outsource your leading braintrust and be successful, if due to nothing else but cultrural issues.
Whereas programming is a means to an end. The people at the top want something does XYZ, and whether it is an American, and Indian, or a smart robot on the moon, the end result is going to be something that does XYZ. Logic, Math, manpower, etc - all basic skills can be outsourced - but the executives at the top do more than that and are much harder to outsource.
That is a very unpopular opinion here on slashdot, so I suppose this will get modded way down. The fact that it might have truth to it... well, overlook it if you must.
It isn't as if the Declaration of Independence stated that every man, woman, and child had a right to a job at which they would like to work at.
Simple economics are at play here, and I find it amusing that people are all up in arms as if they are entitled to something just because of some skill they have, and even worse - just because they at one time had a job doing it.
The fact of the matter is that things come and go.
Either learn a new skill - biotech and nanotechnology come to mind - they will bubble here in the states and in Europe, then they will hit the point where it is cheaper to outsource parts of that away as well.
If you really feel that you must have your job as a programmer - then move to a country that values your skills. That is exactly what all of the H1B workers were doing - they had a skillset and there was a demand for that skill, so they moved to where the jobs were (at the highest pay rates).
Both of my parents are currently unemployed. I find it hard to be sympathetic with them or anyone else if their argument is "but I'm a and I went to school for that. waaaah. I used to get paid money to do that and now they are paying someone else less and getting the same skills. waaah" In my parents case, they are learning new skills. In the case of many people - in fact, the people that are are getting jobs - many are learning new skills.
This is one of the many reasons that University applications have skyrocketed over the past few years - it is hard to get into the top Law programs right now at Harvard and Yale - I have friends that got in back in 1999 when everyone was leaping out of school into the bubble to try to make a buck - she deferred and made some money. She is now trying to get back into the same school and is finding that her application is denied... there are more people applying.
Not to mention, while you are in school, you can defer your other student loans, and generally speaking, your cost of living is greatly reduced and life is easier than trying to scrape by on unemployment out in the "real world".
Hell, it isn't like I was an Econ major, but this is pretty basic stuff.
1984 was cool because everyone got thin and flat, big screen tvs in the apartments - for free! Sure, the downside was that you were monitored, but the units were shiny!
The Big Brother type stuff has always been a dualism for me - part of me thinks it cool to be able to track XYZ and watch the stats of it all, but then there is the part of me that doesn't really personally want to be watched so much.
Of all of the Big Brother type things, my favorite of all time was the AT&T Labs thing where there were units installed into the ceiling tiles that would monitor locations of id trasnmitters that were in id cards, worn by employees. It would allow someone to finger a user and see what room in a building he/she is in. Or a room could be fingered and then you could see a list of users that are in that room. That is cool as hell - you could set it up to have a GUI with the building blueprints, and you could setup stats. Show that Joe User spends 5 hours everyday at his desk, and 3 hours at the watercooler. Cool in the sense that I like it and I'm a stats junkie, but in reality, I'm not so sure I want someone to be able to track that I spend N minutes of the day in the toilet, and then the rest curled up in a ball under my desk, crying. Although I'm pretty certain the resolution on these things isn't good enough to determine the difference between sitting at my desk or sleeping under my desk. Also, it is an id badge that one wears - one could easily leave it anywhere and bypass the system. That is why we must all get them implanted immediately. Did I just say that? I am pretty sure this is it here, the Active Badge (the same people that brought us VNC, antoher incredibly cool tool).
That is a good point - perhaps having no experience at all pretty much makes anything seem possible.
These people have learned how to do their specific tasks and if anything changes, they just kind of freak out.
And yeah, it does certainly seem like it is an ape training facility sometimes. But they tell me it is a financial services company.
Lots of people that are scared to do things differently because it might crash everything. Although, to be fair, they aren't all that wrong in some cases.
Being a computer person myself for as long as I can remember, it is hard for me to imagine how they do or don't get things.
That said, I have an office full of people that barely grasp sitting at their desks and logging into the network. To then tell them that they can roam about and do the same thing would assuredly lose at least half of them and they would likely spend the rest of the day doing things that would never even occur to me - rebooting things, unplugging devices - I will never understand these people.
Beside the arguements on here that it wouldn't catch on - I think there is a larger issue at hand.
Laughter is a spontaneous thing - not everyone reacts the same way to different stimuli.
As a result, there is true laughter, and then there is a fake laugh. A fake laugh is far different than true laughter. This system, unless somehow setup with an endless supply of universally funny jokes, would solely rely on fake and forced laughter - which would likely get tiredsome to the users - not to mention be hard to reproduce (whereas I would bet that true real laughter from the same person is frequently very smilar).
It is the same basic priniciple with smiles and the human face. A true smile uses a wide range of the facial muscles and involves the eyes a lot. You can usually tell someone is smiling without even seeing their mouth - you only need to see the top half of their face to know. That is, if it is a genuine smile. Then there is the fake smile - what we do for photographs. It is entirely different and for the bulk of us, is solely done in the cheek and mouth muscles - therefore it comes across frequently as a pained expression or a sneer. Politicians and models are usually more successful if their fake smiles look more genuine than "normal" people.
I think they should have a recognition system based on our farts.
Offices are setup that way because of the limits of the computer.
With the ability to use any computer to do any of your work would change the way the office is used, and therefore why it is interested.
Granted, you could do this now just by logging in normally, but the non-computer types of a company aren't going to get it. They need something they can walk up to and just use - they won't bother with anything more.
To say that something won't ever work or catch on because of the current way you do something is nearsighted. Should we switch to those new motorized coaches? Hell no! The way we do it now is with horses, and those motorized coaches scare the horses!
From what I have seen, they are all fairly straightfoward. The stuff that is tough for me is not using any of the programs (they are designed to be easy... or they try), but the logistics behind it all.
Even more so, the legal and accounting side of it.
My current employer does some hedge fund management and then a lot of the accounting and paperwork for funds. It all looks incredibly dull:)
(I too am sorry for my English, and I was born and raised in the States)
thank you, yes, I recall the first time I saw that reference on Slashdot and I was very impressed with those built in tools that it has.
At the time I wasn't impressed with the rest of the package, but it is now at the point where I really am.
I am still a bit annoyed at the DOM differences between the two browsers (IE and moz), but that is getting to be less of an issue since I no longer do any real DHTML and am just trying to make the pages as lightweight as possible for the bulk of what I do now.
unfortunately (fortunately? depends how you look it at I guess) I actually don't use a large amount of banking software myself.
I am more on the side of what hedge funds and portfoliio managers use. I have experience with banking software in terms of what they do online transactions with, both for online banking, as well as in the background. But all of this stuff is frequently written in house, or custom written by a software house.
So I'm a bad one to ask for actual packages - especially for finance management.
Slashdot Mirror
LMAO! (OMGWTFBBQ)
I don't know which is worse - my typing, or my proofreading skills.
I'm obviously retarded.
I'd like to blame my small laptop keyboard... but I think the root of the matter is I'm a dipshit.
I currently have a 256K downlink ADSL and 128K uplink.
I pay the phone company over $100, and then the internet side over $100 - they are both the same company if you follow up through the books high enough.
In the end, I am paying $250 a month for a 256K connection.
Hell, at work we are on a 128K *frame fucking relay*. (we are trying to get wireless, but the cruise ships block our signal)
Oh what I would give for that... droool.
To be fair, while everything you say has its points - the fact that they go to ivy league schools - regardless of how they got in - helps them later in life.
They can drink beer and skip all of their classes (although that is hard to do and still stay in school at an ivy league - which is incidentally just a sports league - it just happens to have a few good schools in it), yet they are still going through the social experience with the other people at the school.
so even if these are dipshits that lucked their way into the job - they still have access to their alumni friends once they have their job (or in order to get the job).
This is networking. An essential skill in business.
GM has clients all over the world. It is feasible that some company sits through a boring sales presentation and hates some new propsal - but the fact that the VP of Roof Wax went to school with the head dude at the other company - well hot damn! We'll take two!
I'm not saying that is the best way for things to work - it sounds an awful lot liek the bluebloods of yesteryear, born into rights instead of earning them.
But the process is how it works - there are ways of getting in on talent and brains, there are ways of sleeping your way in, and then there is birthrights to it.
My family was poor as hell - I went to one of the top schools in the country, and I'm about to start my own company (and am within a few months of leading another company to start up).
I understand how the process works - and I suppose I'm taking advantage of them.
Sorry, I missed the law that forced us to own property and mortgage it.
If you have debts, that is in now way the fault of me, the company you formerly worked for, or the government.
While it may suck huge ass to be in that situation, to expect anyone else to be at fault, or to bail you out is a bit... well, American.
I paid my own way through college because my family was too poor to do it - I envy those that have mom and dad to fall back to as a cushion (to be fair, I had financial aid as well - of the $35K a year, that took care of about $20K - so to say I paid for it isn't as grand as it sounds - I paid for anywhere from $10K-18K a year depending on the year of school).
What I meant in terms of the shelter from the real world is that in school, it is frequently the case that you have room and board as part of the tuition, and you are in there for a few years. Many places you can get by without a car.
I didn't take into account people that had mortgages.
A large part of the economic crisis right now is that people lived beyond their means. They had a great job that paid well, they went out and bought shit on credit and loans, thinking that they would pay them back with the money from the stock market and these great jobs.
There is a cost/reward basis for everything. It sounds harsh, and hell, bitch all you want - but it probably hurts all that much more to sort of know it was a little short sighted and/or risky.
And also, I only meant going back to school as an example - there are plenty of ways that you can start up a new career, teaching yourself new things.
It might suck and you might not like it, but it doesn't necessarily mean going back to school... although I've heard that it is hard to get hired as an autodidactic doctor.
What planet do I live on? Brilliant - I applaud you. After double checking, I'm on Earth. But I suppose that was a rhetorical question, aimed to mock and belittle me - I hurt, deep down inside.
If you don't grasp how people spending money feeds back into the economy - or more importantly, how companies spending money feeds back into the economy - then you are missing probably one of the bigger points to economic theory.
If a CEO is spending $60K on a car, someone sold him that car. Someone produced that car. Someone sold the parts to make that car, etc etc etc.
It doesn't matter if the companies involved are in the states or not - the point is that it is a global economy right now, so therefore we are adding money to it. If the car company is seeing increased revenue, then they spend more - hiring more people, buying more crap - etc. That feeds around... jesus, do I have to follow the chain forever for you?
The people that whine about the plight of the American worker just reek of lacking in world perspective.
Business doesn't live to oppress the worker - they have nothing to gain from oppressing people. They are looking to make money - you weren't oppressed when you got hired in the first place? No - because they were paying *you* and you are special. But if they start to pay someone else, then you bitch and moan? Right on sister.
And sorry, I missed the part about licking boots of people from other countries. I mean, I see you wrote it, but I'm not sure where that falls in with... well, anything. If you have a boot licking thing, that's your call, but I in all seriousness am not seeing what that has to do with globalization. Maybe the places I have worked just happened to be low on the boot licking demand.
And I'm defending this mainly because when I see people saying retarded things and obviously being American in the process, it makes my country look like it is full of retarded self-centered assholes.
This is a discussion board full of people form all over the world, and they are seeing what I'm seeing - a bunch of Americans whining "I used to be coooooool... now they don't invite me to the coooool kid parties anymore" - wake up - America is hated right now.
Maybe there is a reason for it.
As for who sponsored my H1B - I'm pretty sure that since I was born in the States, and lived there my whole life, I'm probably not even eligible for an H1B.
That said, I currently live in Bermuda, so I have my own work permit to be here.
As for freaking out about H1Bs - hell, I have had my job taken by a "filthy dirty ferner" - they were Russian!!! I still can't take enough showers to get over that.
Whatever.
The Russian would work for less than I would, and the people in charge felt that the Russian would produce equal or better code.
I didn't freak out over it, I went out and got another job.
I then left that job and moved to Bermuda because I currently have better opportunities now.
As for bankruptcy, thank you - I will keep that in mind. I am currently just an IT bitch, about to spin off into and IT bitch company, and also starting up my own company - so I'm a little busy - but I like to think that instead of bitching about how I deserve this and that - I'm actually doing something about it and getting things done.
Hence, I speak from experience I suppose.
hmm, yes, New Jersey. I can think of a few 3rd world countries that have similar drinking water as New Jersey.
NJ is actually a very nice place and has many wealthy little pockets - that is perhaps what he is referring to.
Not the sesspool that the turnpike goes through, and which most people associate with when they hear NJ. Well, that and Big Hair chicks.
mmm, if only... droool
Sorry, I meant them fucking Candianers. I don't know what came over me.
are you saying that Indians just aren't cut out for programming?
I worked at a job where I had many coworkers that were Indian, and we outsourced a lot of our stuff to our Indian office.
The code from those guys SUCKED.
I too figured, hell, them fellas must all be retarded.
But no, then I went and worked at a different company and worked with some of the brightest people I know - they were from India as well.
It turns out, just like the States - people can be total idiots, and people can be really bright.
If anyone is going to present a good arguement here - it should be that India has suffered a serious brain drain throughout the economic boom here in the states. Their best and brightest have come over here on the H1B, leaving behind the ones that would like to also become IT and cash in on that field.
That argument makes a bit more sense than "they are different than me, therefore, they must be retarded"
You are apparently making up your own set of Economic rules and laws as you go. You should write a book, as should many others on Slashdot.
First off, it isn't racist, it is probably more xenophobic if anything.
Regardless of what you call it, the fact is you are thinking too narrow minded.
The end result is that they are looking to have higher profit margins.
Paying a worker from anywhere in the world N dollars allows them to make X profit.
If they can then switch out to a higher or equal skill level, but pay N-W (I'm just using random ass variables here), then X increases.
The fact that X increases means that the people that are invested in X, also make more money.
There are also the new workers, H1B or not, they too benefit from the increased money made.
As a result - more money is made, more is spent, fed back into the economy - and the original people that are pissed lost their jobs *don't matter* because there are other jobs out there.
Like I have said, they might have to learn new skills if they want to make equal or higher dollars - but in the end, bitching that someone else took their jobs is silly and overlooking the big picture.
If you just aren't getting it, then you can join the illustrious club of many other uneducated Americans that walk around angry that they lost their jobs to all the damn f'ern'ers and save themselves the trouble of wondering how they could have prevented it.
The library is your friend - read up on modern Economic theory and instead of bitching and moaning, maybe you can even learn enough to get that new job that I keep referring to.
if the company outsources its work to India - it isn't like they all of the sudden can no longer make the product.
The end product still exists.
If you feel that by moving all programmers (which seems like a hefty and large population to you since you are part of it, and I imagine steelworkers feel that everyone they know is a steelworker, therefore we all are as well?), then the economy will get so bad that the XYZ product will no longer be purchased - that ignores the original discussion.
Which is globalization. America buys crap, as does the rest of the world.
If we are spreading the wealth to other countries by employing people there, then they have more money to spend on crap.
Hence they too can buy the products.
yeah, I guess on many levels that is it.
:)
one doesn't have to like it to still view it with a logical and rational perspective.
hell, the cleaning people at your office might all get fired and replaced with cheaper workers that have snuck over the border from Canada (fucking candians, taking all of our jobs) - the fellows on the way out might look at your lack of caring about their situation and consider you a part of the good ol' boy network as well.
The good old boy network could be a race thing, it could be a college (more likely business school) thing, or it could simply be nepotism.
in the end, the people higher up than you get to make the decisions, and if the only people higher than you are the stockholders, then you aren't going anywhere.
whether their motives are selfish, racist, ignorant, or uninformed - they are there.
I personally have no issue with any of it. I have more of a problem if the people that they are replacing me with are dumber than me - because that is hard to do
Crest WhiteStrips are available in two forms. There is the kind that you can only get at the dentist, and then the kind you can get over the counter in many drugstores and groceries.
The OTC version is much more dilute, and costs nearly the same as the dentist version.
You are better off going to the dentist and getting those - which are $60 and work - then instead going to the store and buying them for $40 and having them not work.
You are comparing living to the States to living in a Socialist society.
There are freedoms here (lower taxes for one as you say) that you won't have there.
You in fact, have the freedom to leave here and join one of those countries. There is literally nothing on this end stopping you from doing that.
But to demand that you are given a job goes against the priniciples in place here. It did have a place in a thing called "Communism" and as I recall, that system failed.
The Global Economy allows America to grow its wealth to new levels - but the side effect of that is that it spreads that wealth.
Being part of America as it expands on globalism means that you too feel the spread of the wealth.
All I'm saying is that if you feel that you are somehow entitled to a job just because you live in the states - that is wrong. You do have the right to seek a job, and you have the right to bitch all you want about not having one.
And you have the right to move elsewhere and get a job there, under conditions that suit your needs more.
While I can't speak for Wal-Mart, I can applaud your anon attempt to slam my parents. *golf-clap*
The article states that the jobs are moving out of the country - hence why I referenced that.
The arguement is equally flawed if you are hostile to people coming in and taking jobs.
The business world is driven by money - that is the whole point.
They aren't out there to make sure that you get paid at a level that you are happy with.
They don't even care if you have a job.
What they care about is maximizing profit.
It is the same principle - either take lower wages yourself and shut up already, or move. You can go to a country where they pay more.
You can learn a new skill.
The fact of the matter is that the US was started because of all immigrants - it seems a bit silly now that we are all here to say "ahh, that was nice - okay, someone shut that door now!"
One could argue that C++ is C++ no matter where in the world you are sitting.
But to lead a company takes a skillset that is fairly abstract in the making.
From the point of view of the employees, they see a bunch of guys in suits wandering around, making what seem like bad decisions, and worse yet, lyaing people off for the good of the company value.
They seem fairly worthless, and out of my own (limited) experience, it really does seem that a lot of them are just bloat - but that is more middle management IMO.
In terms of the top people, there is a cultrual background that is at play that will likely keep American/European people at the tops of American/European companies, and Asian people at the tops of theirs.
I'm sure 80 people will respond with singular references to an anomoly - but for the most part, you can't outsource your leading braintrust and be successful, if due to nothing else but cultrural issues.
Whereas programming is a means to an end. The people at the top want something does XYZ, and whether it is an American, and Indian, or a smart robot on the moon, the end result is going to be something that does XYZ.
Logic, Math, manpower, etc - all basic skills can be outsourced - but the executives at the top do more than that and are much harder to outsource.
That is a very unpopular opinion here on slashdot, so I suppose this will get modded way down. The fact that it might have truth to it... well, overlook it if you must.
It isn't as if the Declaration of Independence stated that every man, woman, and child had a right to a job at which they would like to work at.
Simple economics are at play here, and I find it amusing that people are all up in arms as if they are entitled to something just because of some skill they have, and even worse - just because they at one time had a job doing it.
The fact of the matter is that things come and go.
Either learn a new skill - biotech and nanotechnology come to mind - they will bubble here in the states and in Europe, then they will hit the point where it is cheaper to outsource parts of that away as well.
If you really feel that you must have your job as a programmer - then move to a country that values your skills.
That is exactly what all of the H1B workers were doing - they had a skillset and there was a demand for that skill, so they moved to where the jobs were (at the highest pay rates).
Both of my parents are currently unemployed. I find it hard to be sympathetic with them or anyone else if their argument is "but I'm a and I went to school for that. waaaah. I used to get paid money to do that and now they are paying someone else less and getting the same skills. waaah"
In my parents case, they are learning new skills.
In the case of many people - in fact, the people that are are getting jobs - many are learning new skills.
This is one of the many reasons that University applications have skyrocketed over the past few years - it is hard to get into the top Law programs right now at Harvard and Yale - I have friends that got in back in 1999 when everyone was leaping out of school into the bubble to try to make a buck - she deferred and made some money. She is now trying to get back into the same school and is finding that her application is denied... there are more people applying.
Not to mention, while you are in school, you can defer your other student loans, and generally speaking, your cost of living is greatly reduced and life is easier than trying to scrape by on unemployment out in the "real world".
Hell, it isn't like I was an Econ major, but this is pretty basic stuff.
yeah, but seriously, how do you feel about it?
1984 was cool because everyone got thin and flat, big screen tvs in the apartments - for free!
Sure, the downside was that you were monitored, but the units were shiny!
The Big Brother type stuff has always been a dualism for me - part of me thinks it cool to be able to track XYZ and watch the stats of it all, but then there is the part of me that doesn't really personally want to be watched so much.
Of all of the Big Brother type things, my favorite of all time was the AT&T Labs thing where there were units installed into the ceiling tiles that would monitor locations of id trasnmitters that were in id cards, worn by employees.
It would allow someone to finger a user and see what room in a building he/she is in. Or a room could be fingered and then you could see a list of users that are in that room.
That is cool as hell - you could set it up to have a GUI with the building blueprints, and you could setup stats. Show that Joe User spends 5 hours everyday at his desk, and 3 hours at the watercooler.
Cool in the sense that I like it and I'm a stats junkie, but in reality, I'm not so sure I want someone to be able to track that I spend N minutes of the day in the toilet, and then the rest curled up in a ball under my desk, crying. Although I'm pretty certain the resolution on these things isn't good enough to determine the difference between sitting at my desk or sleeping under my desk.
Also, it is an id badge that one wears - one could easily leave it anywhere and bypass the system. That is why we must all get them implanted immediately. Did I just say that?
I am pretty sure this is it here, the Active Badge (the same people that brought us VNC, antoher incredibly cool tool).
That is a good point - perhaps having no experience at all pretty much makes anything seem possible.
These people have learned how to do their specific tasks and if anything changes, they just kind of freak out.
And yeah, it does certainly seem like it is an ape training facility sometimes.
But they tell me it is a financial services company.
Lots of people that are scared to do things differently because it might crash everything.
Although, to be fair, they aren't all that wrong in some cases.
Being a computer person myself for as long as I can remember, it is hard for me to imagine how they do or don't get things.
That said, I have an office full of people that barely grasp sitting at their desks and logging into the network.
To then tell them that they can roam about and do the same thing would assuredly lose at least half of them and they would likely spend the rest of the day doing things that would never even occur to me - rebooting things, unplugging devices - I will never understand these people.
Beside the arguements on here that it wouldn't catch on - I think there is a larger issue at hand.
Laughter is a spontaneous thing - not everyone reacts the same way to different stimuli.
As a result, there is true laughter, and then there is a fake laugh. A fake laugh is far different than true laughter.
This system, unless somehow setup with an endless supply of universally funny jokes, would solely rely on fake and forced laughter - which would likely get tiredsome to the users - not to mention be hard to reproduce (whereas I would bet that true real laughter from the same person is frequently very smilar).
It is the same basic priniciple with smiles and the human face. A true smile uses a wide range of the facial muscles and involves the eyes a lot. You can usually tell someone is smiling without even seeing their mouth - you only need to see the top half of their face to know. That is, if it is a genuine smile.
Then there is the fake smile - what we do for photographs. It is entirely different and for the bulk of us, is solely done in the cheek and mouth muscles - therefore it comes across frequently as a pained expression or a sneer.
Politicians and models are usually more successful if their fake smiles look more genuine than "normal" people.
I think they should have a recognition system based on our farts.
Offices are setup that way because of the limits of the computer.
With the ability to use any computer to do any of your work would change the way the office is used, and therefore why it is interested.
Granted, you could do this now just by logging in normally, but the non-computer types of a company aren't going to get it.
They need something they can walk up to and just use - they won't bother with anything more.
To say that something won't ever work or catch on because of the current way you do something is nearsighted.
Should we switch to those new motorized coaches? Hell no! The way we do it now is with horses, and those motorized coaches scare the horses!
From what I have seen, they are all fairly straightfoward.
:)
The stuff that is tough for me is not using any of the programs (they are designed to be easy... or they try), but the logistics behind it all.
Even more so, the legal and accounting side of it.
My current employer does some hedge fund management and then a lot of the accounting and paperwork for funds.
It all looks incredibly dull
(I too am sorry for my English, and I was born and raised in the States)
thank you, yes, I recall the first time I saw that reference on Slashdot and I was very impressed with those built in tools that it has.
At the time I wasn't impressed with the rest of the package, but it is now at the point where I really am.
I am still a bit annoyed at the DOM differences between the two browsers (IE and moz), but that is getting to be less of an issue since I no longer do any real DHTML and am just trying to make the pages as lightweight as possible for the bulk of what I do now.
unfortunately (fortunately? depends how you look it at I guess) I actually don't use a large amount of banking software myself.
I am more on the side of what hedge funds and portfoliio managers use. I have experience with banking software in terms of what they do online transactions with, both for online banking, as well as in the background.
But all of this stuff is frequently written in house, or custom written by a software house.
So I'm a bad one to ask for actual packages - especially for finance management.