> But it is true, DOS has been the #1 OS for about 15 years, but we only >have Windows as the primary OS for about 5 years. And the DOS >development isn't dead yet
Yep. Don't forget about DJGPP, which is a port of GCC to DOS...
>Duh! Fedex would love to be able to take a letter from you for $0.25 >and deliver it the next day. But they can't, because that would be >illegal. Read up on the history of the Post Office sometime, and how
You seriously think that given a choice Fedex would actually deliver packages/mail to most inner-cities addresses or those in rual areas for 25 cents?!? Wake up *TREKKIE* As much as you losers wish, the US Postal Office isn't going anywhere, because the alternatives to it like Fedex are far,far worse.
>If we want good user interfaces, we have to recognize that talent in >user interface design is separate from talent in programming -- then >find the best people in this area and get them to contribute to open >source projects.
Bah. The people you are talking about should instead be put up against a wall and shot dead for their crimes against humanity. They are after all responsible for things like MS Bob and other GUI bullshit that's been inflicted upon the world.
>Why is a GUI a bad thing? I totally disagree with you that the GUI and >the need to things the 'pretty' way is what makes Windows unstable.
Try to find somebody who actually understands what half the garbage in the Windows registry actually does. I doubt you could find such a person, most certainly not at Microsoft. This kind of thing leads to bad things happening to Windows,, which is half the reason you see people telling you to reinstall the whole mess if you've got system problems under Windows. 90% of these problems are most likely the result of not knowing what the results of changing the setting of something in a GUI-based interface will have on the system, and those cutesy GUI-help balloons don't for the most part don't really tell you what you need to know.
Let's take a look at a perfect example of this, the Windows 98 Defragger. What a *USELESS* piece of shit. Why on earth didn't Microsoft just adapt the DOS 6.22 command-line defrag program to work with the Windows 95/98 filesystems as well as the old DOS filesystem?
>I don't like the elitism that a lot of the Linux community >shows when faced with this problem. Give them what they want. Give us >what we want. Everyone's happy and the world benefits.
What's elitist about telling someone to read the damn instruction manual to something? It's because of people like you that we've got people who can't do something as simple as give the correct change at checkouts......
>On Win98 it is especially destructive because it >messes the hell outta IE. Ive had one customer who needed to reinstall >win98 because of it. Its bad enough that I have to uninstall their >damn proprietary network components to get our customers going, but to
Hahahaha. Finally, somebody's doing to Microsoft what Microsoft has done to everybody else ever since IE 4 came out and MickySoft made damn sure it was "intergrated" into the OS. You gotta love it, especially when one sees the Microsoft astroturfers whining over it. Great Job, AOL. I may not like you, but I sure admire your sense of irony.....
>And you waste an IRQ and PCI slot for each one of them. And you still >get two devices per channel, instead of 15. There's a big difference >between 2 and 15.
Not actually. Most of the IDE soundcards like mine had IDE drive controllers built into the card.
>We're not breeding more jerks -- it's part of human nature. >I remember back in 1988 with BBS's when it was pure geek culture the >same thing was going on then. Flame wars burnned like wildfires around >message boards over nothing -- no topical arguments, just pure "You >suck" issues.
You're right. Nothing has really changed. Wait. I take that back. What's changed is the vast majority of the techno-snobs that comprise the vast majority of tech reporters now have to deal with the riff-raff that makes up the 'net. Remember, during the '80s the vast majority of the tech-reporter types hung out on for-profit BBS's which carried networks like RIME, which were policed very tightly. You would've seen very few if any of the Slashdot types on those kinds of BBS's. So Katz and those like him could sit and speculate what a wonderful place the internet would be, because so far as they were conserned we didn't really exist. So Katz and his friends left their isolated suburan BBS systems and ran head first into the riff-raff they've always looked down their nose at already on the 'net. Imagine their shock and horror. You can a perfect example of this in their reporting of the lawsuits over DeCSS. Notice how most of the reports tend to associte the people involved with DeCSS as pirates? This is no accident.
>little to hang on to. You C programers are the ones holding back the >rest of sociaty, with your backwards 1980's technology. I hope you all >die a horrible and painfull death.
Yeah. Give me C over Visual Basic anytime dude.
Give me C or Give me death, but don't give me Visual Basic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>If you do not CONTINUOUSLY act to protect your trademark, it has the >potential of becoming generic. Just ask Xerox or Kimberly Clark >(makers of Kleenex). Linus was silent when Linux.{com|org|net} came >online. Also too, when valinux.com, linuxhq.com, linux-hw.com, >corellinux.com, etc. Did Linux act to protect his trademark? No. Looks >like it was abandoned to me. Linux cannot jump up many years later and
Hey loser how do you know that Linus *DIDN'T* give them permission to use the Linux name? It's widely know in the linux community that Linus owns the trademark/protection rights to the term Linux. Why don't you and yourfriends do yourselves a favor and stick to scaming the Windows crowd.......
>I've been watching it. It just doesn't move "as much" I've seen it >vary anywhere from 14 - 23. While this may make you believe noone >cares, believe this: Be users are a loyal userbase, almost as stubborn >as Amiga users:)
Don't kid yourself. Be users are/were mostly Amiga Users.....
>Unfortunately, the zealots have convinced the mainstream media that >operating systems are a generic product. Perhaps it's true; perhaps it >isn't. What that amounts to, however, is that a product that fits my >needs far better than Linux can (now or for the forseeable future) has >effectively been driven off the market by PR.
Total Bullshit. What happened was that an GUI-focused OS (BE) that *DIDN'T* meet the needs and desires of a hell of a lot more people got rejected. I always suspected that given a *REAL* choice, the GUI wouldn't have succeded on it's own merits. It had to be forced upon the masses (the Windows,Mac and to a lesser degree the Amiga and Atari ST GUI's). The real lesson here is that GUI/MultiMedia hype does not make an OS. The Amiga tried this route and lost and going by your attuide, BE users will end up making the same mistakes that the Amiga users did.
>I can't understand why people refuse to buy things over the internet.
Give *ONE* good reason to buy something over the Net.
Cheaper? Not really. Faster? Again, not really. Easier? Try buying something that's actually useful over the Net, and then compare it to buying it at a Wal-mart department store....
>computers on the planet run Windows, another healthy chunk are Macs, >lots of Linux users running one of a boatload of X packages... Boy I >wish everyone would come clean and admit that they'd rather just use >the command line. BTW, that's sarcasm...from your post it's pretty >obvious you wouldn't have figured that out on your own.
The difference is under Linux you can *CHOOSE* not to run a GUI,which is something you GUI freaks would love to take away. With Windows you have little choice but to use a GUI, and that choice is being taken away more and more with each new version of Windows.
Those studies are as much of a joke as benchmark testing has become.
>Please, stop pretending you don't know.... it is well known that the >Mozilla interface SUCKS in terms of responsiveness/redraw time. >The slow GUI is the main reason I don't use it. I really hope removeal >of the debug code will make it substantially faster, or else I'm >afraid this browser is going nowhere.
Who really cares what you think or do? In case you haven't realized it yet the browser world is splitting up and you Microsoft Astroturfers/IE freaks have to get over the fact that there is little or no interest/demand among linux users for a linux version (shudder) of IE. This must really burn you guys.
>I wish that Redhat, now that it has the money, would make some >investment in human-factor studies of desktop interfaces.
Why bother? Those studies don't mean a damn thing in the real world, and everybody but people like yourself it seems realize it.
That's why so many people have come to dislike the GUI and GUI adovcates with a passion, because the studies and claims they make don't tend to reflect the reality of the people who aren't included in the studies for one reason or another.
>I'd rather not download either of them. >A site whose only options are a 30K flash or a 100K animated GIF is >not a well-designed site.
Right on. I don't want to waste my time wading though this crap either. Reading the posts of people who actually defend the use of this nonsense [Flash] makes me wonder about the so-called thought process these people go through.....
>I'd like to see how long it would have taken you to write that post of >yours if you'd had to click each letter on some onscreen keyboard with >your beloved mouse.
Just go to an arcade and watch how long it takes people to enter the three letters of their initals on the game's hi-score board. That should give you an idea.....
>I think we'll need to be cautious about these new drugs. Why, just the >other day I saw a rerun of ``Bewitched'' where Dr. Bombay came up with >a cure for the common cold. The side effects when used on humans,
Be Afraid. Be very afraid. Remember the Star Trek:TOS epidsode "That Which Survives" in which an entire race managed to wipe themselves out by a disease accidently created as an side-effect of their planet-engineering technology?
Beware of Circuit City, epecially if you think you might want return something, especially electronics. They charge something like a 15% restocking fee even if you return the item within 24 hours. You open the box, you get hit with the fee. At least that the case in the Virgina stores according to my brother-in-law....
Besides wasn't Circuit City one of the main forces behind Divx?
>action scenes and the like -- but what about a plot? What aspect of >Spiderman can they focus on in 2hrs and produce a good movie? Tim >Burton did this excellently with the first Batman movie, using >Batman's long-time foe The Joker, but Spiderman really doesn't have an >equivalent equal -- all his enemies like Green Goblin, Dr Oct, and >Venom, are just foes, but not a constant one. I don't see how you can >pick one foe and still have a good Spiderman movie.
I see the same problem happening with the X-men movie. How much are you willing to bet that they're going to make Magneto out to be some kind of crazed terrorist bent on *WORLD DOMINATION* when he's nothing of the sort. Magneto's outlook on things were a lot like that of the younger Malcom X rather than being those of a pure villian. How the heck do you get something like that across in 2hrs?
Slashdot Mirror
> But it is true, DOS has been the #1 OS for about 15 years, but we only
>have Windows as the primary OS for about 5 years. And the DOS
>development isn't dead yet
Yep. Don't forget about DJGPP, which is a port of GCC to DOS...
>Duh! Fedex would love to be able to take a letter from you for $0.25
>and deliver it the next day. But they can't, because that would be
>illegal. Read up on the history of the Post Office sometime, and how
You seriously think that given a choice Fedex would actually deliver packages/mail to most inner-cities addresses or those in rual areas for 25 cents?!? Wake up *TREKKIE* As much as you losers wish, the US Postal Office isn't going anywhere, because the alternatives to it like Fedex are far,far worse.
>If we want good user interfaces, we have to recognize that talent in
>user interface design is separate from talent in programming -- then
>find the best people in this area and get them to contribute to open
>source projects.
Bah. The people you are talking about should instead be put up against a wall and shot dead for their crimes against humanity. They are after all responsible for things like MS Bob and other GUI bullshit that's been inflicted upon the world.
>Why is a GUI a bad thing? I totally disagree with you that the GUI and
>the need to things the 'pretty' way is what makes Windows unstable.
Try to find somebody who actually understands what half the garbage in the Windows registry actually does. I doubt you could find such a person, most certainly not at Microsoft. This kind of thing leads to bad things happening to Windows,, which is half the reason you see people telling you to reinstall the whole mess if you've got system problems under Windows. 90% of these problems are most likely the result of not knowing what the results of changing the setting of something in a GUI-based interface will have on the system, and those cutesy GUI-help balloons don't for the most part don't really tell you what you need to know.
Let's take a look at a perfect example of this, the Windows 98 Defragger. What a *USELESS* piece of shit. Why on earth didn't Microsoft just adapt the DOS 6.22 command-line defrag program to work with the Windows 95/98 filesystems as well as the old DOS filesystem?
>I don't like the elitism that a lot of the Linux community
>shows when faced with this problem. Give them what they want. Give us
>what we want. Everyone's happy and the world benefits.
What's elitist about telling someone to read the damn instruction manual to something? It's because of people like you that we've got people who can't do something as simple as give the correct change at checkouts......
>On Win98 it is especially destructive because it
>messes the hell outta IE. Ive had one customer who needed to reinstall
>win98 because of it. Its bad enough that I have to uninstall their
>damn proprietary network components to get our customers going, but to
Hahahaha. Finally, somebody's doing to Microsoft what Microsoft has done to everybody else ever since IE 4 came out and MickySoft made damn sure it was "intergrated" into the OS. You gotta love it, especially when one sees the Microsoft astroturfers whining over it. Great Job, AOL. I may not like you, but I sure admire your sense of irony.....
>And you waste an IRQ and PCI slot for each one of them. And you still
>get two devices per channel, instead of 15. There's a big difference
>between 2 and 15.
Not actually. Most of the IDE soundcards like mine had IDE drive controllers built into the card.
>We're not breeding more jerks -- it's part of human nature.
>I remember back in 1988 with BBS's when it was pure geek culture the
>same thing was going on then. Flame wars burnned like wildfires around
>message boards over nothing -- no topical arguments, just pure "You
>suck" issues.
You're right. Nothing has really changed. Wait. I take that back. What's changed is the vast majority of the techno-snobs that comprise the vast majority of tech reporters now have to deal with the riff-raff that makes up the 'net. Remember, during the '80s the vast majority of the tech-reporter types hung out on for-profit BBS's which carried networks like RIME, which were policed very tightly. You would've seen very few if any of the Slashdot types on those kinds of BBS's. So Katz and those like him could sit and speculate what a wonderful place the internet would be, because so far as they were conserned we didn't really exist. So Katz and his friends left their isolated suburan BBS systems and ran head first into the riff-raff they've always looked down their nose at already on the 'net. Imagine their shock and horror. You can a perfect example of this in their reporting of the lawsuits over DeCSS. Notice how most of the reports tend to associte the people involved with DeCSS as pirates? This is no
accident.
>little to hang on to. You C programers are the ones holding back the
>rest of sociaty, with your backwards 1980's technology. I hope you all
>die a horrible and painfull death.
Yeah. Give me C over Visual Basic anytime dude.
Give me C or Give me death, but don't give me Visual Basic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>If you do not CONTINUOUSLY act to protect your trademark, it has the
>potential of becoming generic. Just ask Xerox or Kimberly Clark
>(makers of Kleenex). Linus was silent when Linux.{com|org|net} came
>online. Also too, when valinux.com, linuxhq.com, linux-hw.com,
>corellinux.com, etc. Did Linux act to protect his trademark? No. Looks
>like it was abandoned to me. Linux cannot jump up many years later and
Hey loser how do you know that Linus *DIDN'T* give them permission to use the Linux name? It's widely know in the linux community that Linus owns the trademark/protection rights to the term Linux. Why don't you and yourfriends do yourselves a favor and stick to scaming the Windows crowd.......
>I've been watching it. It just doesn't move "as much" I've seen it
>vary anywhere from 14 - 23. While this may make you believe noone
>cares, believe this: Be users are a loyal userbase, almost as stubborn
>as Amiga users
Don't kid yourself. Be users are/were mostly Amiga Users.....
>Unfortunately, the zealots have convinced the mainstream media that
>operating systems are a generic product. Perhaps it's true; perhaps it
>isn't. What that amounts to, however, is that a product that fits my
>needs far better than Linux can (now or for the forseeable future) has
>effectively been driven off the market by PR.
Total Bullshit. What happened was that an GUI-focused OS (BE) that *DIDN'T* meet the needs and desires of a hell of a lot more people got rejected. I always suspected that given a *REAL* choice, the GUI wouldn't have succeded on it's own merits. It had to be forced upon the masses (the Windows,Mac and to a lesser degree the Amiga and Atari ST GUI's). The real lesson here is that GUI/MultiMedia hype does not make an OS. The Amiga tried this route and lost and going by your attuide, BE users will end up making the same mistakes that the Amiga users did.
>I can't understand why people refuse to buy things over the internet.
Give *ONE* good reason to buy something over the Net.
Cheaper? Not really.
Faster? Again, not really.
Easier? Try buying something that's actually useful over the Net, and then compare it to buying it at a Wal-mart department store....
>computers on the planet run Windows, another healthy chunk are Macs,
>lots of Linux users running one of a boatload of X packages... Boy I
>wish everyone would come clean and admit that they'd rather just use
>the command line. BTW, that's sarcasm...from your post it's pretty
>obvious you wouldn't have figured that out on your own.
The difference is under Linux you can *CHOOSE* not to run a GUI,which is something you GUI freaks would love to take away. With Windows you have little choice but to use a GUI, and that choice is being taken away more and more with each new version of Windows.
Those studies are as much of a joke as benchmark testing has become.
>Please, stop pretending you don't know.... it is well known that the
>Mozilla interface SUCKS in terms of responsiveness/redraw time.
>The slow GUI is the main reason I don't use it. I really hope removeal
>of the debug code will make it substantially faster, or else I'm
>afraid this browser is going nowhere.
Who really cares what you think or do? In case you haven't realized it yet the browser world is splitting up and you Microsoft Astroturfers/IE freaks have to get over the fact that there is little or no interest/demand among linux users for a linux version (shudder) of IE. This must really burn you guys.
>I wish that Redhat, now that it has the money, would make some
>investment in human-factor studies of desktop interfaces.
Why bother? Those studies don't mean a damn thing in the real world, and everybody but people like yourself it seems realize it.
That's why so many people have come to dislike the GUI and GUI adovcates with a passion, because the studies and claims they make don't tend to reflect the reality of the people who aren't included in the studies for one reason or another.
>I'd rather not download either of them.
>A site whose only options are a 30K flash or a 100K animated GIF is
>not a well-designed site.
Right on. I don't want to waste my time wading though this crap either. Reading the posts of people who actually defend the use of this nonsense [Flash] makes me wonder about the so-called thought process these people go through.....
>I'd like to see how long it would have taken you to write that post of
>yours if you'd had to click each letter on some onscreen keyboard with
>your beloved mouse.
Just go to an arcade and watch how long it takes people to enter the three letters of their initals on the game's hi-score board. That should give you an idea.....
>M$ may be evil, and they may make a slow, buggy, single-user OS, but
>they have a very good web browser.
You're right. Microsoft does have a very good web browser.
For the transmission of computer viruses and other such things.....
>I think we'll need to be cautious about these new drugs. Why, just the
>other day I saw a rerun of ``Bewitched'' where Dr. Bombay came up with
>a cure for the common cold. The side effects when used on humans,
Be Afraid. Be very afraid. Remember the Star Trek:TOS epidsode "That Which Survives" in which an entire race managed to wipe themselves out by a disease accidently created as an side-effect of their planet-engineering technology?
>I've been wanting one of these for years!!!
Beware of Circuit City, epecially if you think you might want return something, especially electronics. They charge something like a 15% restocking fee even if you return the item within 24 hours. You open the box, you get hit with the fee. At least that the case in the Virgina stores according to my brother-in-law....
Besides wasn't Circuit City one of the main forces behind Divx?
>Microsoft did *not* lose an appeal here; the Supreme Court simply
>refused to hear the case--as it does with 99% of the cases that it is
>offered.
Which amounts to losing the appeal.
>Microsoft did *not* lose an appeal here; the Supreme Court simply
>refused to hear the case--as it does with 99% of the cases that it is
>offered.
Which amounts to losing the appeal.
>action scenes and the like -- but what about a plot? What aspect of
>Spiderman can they focus on in 2hrs and produce a good movie? Tim
>Burton did this excellently with the first Batman movie, using
>Batman's long-time foe The Joker, but Spiderman really doesn't have an
>equivalent equal -- all his enemies like Green Goblin, Dr Oct, and
>Venom, are just foes, but not a constant one. I don't see how you can
>pick one foe and still have a good Spiderman movie.
I see the same problem happening with the X-men movie. How much are you willing to bet that they're going to make Magneto out to be some kind of crazed terrorist bent on *WORLD DOMINATION* when he's nothing of the sort. Magneto's outlook on things were a lot like that of the younger Malcom X rather than being those of a pure villian. How the heck do you get something like that across in 2hrs?
>Don't forget the Star Trek cartoons!
A lot of people would like to, including the people who worked on them.......