$11,000?!?!? Ha! Not for me. I'd rather pay somewhere around $20 (cost of shipping) and use a slightly-older machine (like a 700 megahertz Pentium with XP).
I don't really need the latest hardware to watch Heroes at nbc.com.
Most businesses set a high initial price for the early adopters with lots of money, and then gradually bring the price down for other more-frugal customers.
In the gaming world that typically means $50 for a just-released game, $30 for a year-old game, and $15-20 for an older game.
By this logic, it's okay to shackle a man to the ground, and make him write book-after-book, but you never pay that man. Instead you just makes copies of his book and send them across the internet. No immorality has been done.
>>>Artsy types are doing it backwards.. They do work up front, for nobody in particular, then demand money for it.
Most businesses operate that way. Levis. Microsoft. Farmers. They create products up-front (jeans, windows, corn), and collect payment later from the customer. This is the way the economy works.
You justify your argument that "128k is not fast enough" with an illegal act? And even if it was not illegal, I don't think game-playing justifies increasing bandwidth on an *educational* network and driving-up taxpayer costs. You can wait until Christmas break and play WoW at home. Or during the summer months. (There's that concept again - personal sacrifice.)
You can't be serious. 2-3 hours to download a song??? Look: You're in college; you must know at least some basic math. The typical song is 5 megabytes, but let's assume worst-case of 10 megabytes:
Hmmm. I guess 128 kbit/s is not such a horrible thing after all. It won't hurt your music student to wait 10 minutes to download a song - he or she can do it while they go visit the bathroom. Or snack on ice cream. Or flirt with the cute guy next door. (As for the video lecture, I've watched CW shows like Supernatural over 128k lines. Video works just fine at that speed.)
A taxpayer. You know - the guy whose wallet is funding state colleges. That gives me at least SOME say in the matter.
Furthermore I only have 750k piped into my house, because I can't afford any faster speed. Your room, which I am partially paying-for, should not be getting faster internet than I get. It's my money you're wasting on un-necessary movie downloads. If you want that movie, either wait a few hours for it to stream over - same as I do. Or if you're impatient, go BUY it with your own cash.
Another logical fallacy. The statement "Those who are not stealing don't need more than 128" does NOT imply that those using more than 128 are thieves.
Lots of people use more bandwidth; some fools have 6,000k cable connections just to read email! But in reality they don't need anywhere near that much. 99.9% of college students could survive just fine with a 128k speed limit. (And the other 0.1% could apply for exemptions based upon classroom requirements.)
He's spoiled. He's used to his home connection that can zip through huge files in just a few seconds. Heaven forbid he have to wait half an hour ("Oh woah is me"). It kinda reminds me of how my 5-year-old niece acts when I tell her to wait just five minutes. She acts like it's a tragedy.
However since it's the TAXPAYERS that are paying at least half the bill for state universities, I think they are entitled to demand limits. My wallet is not infinitely deep. If I have to limit myself to 750k DSL, then you college students should have to be limited too.
If you don't like it, get an apartment with $200 a month ultrahighspeed internet and commute to class.
>>>Remember -- we're talking about college students here. Nothing they're doing in college requires they have huge bandwidth coming into their dorm rooms. Students having to download/work with large amounts of data are very likely going to be doing so in some sort of research lab on campus. Yes, there are going to be exceptions to this (there always are), but just because one out of one thousand students could *actually* use that bandwidth to the internet, it doesn't mean they "all" suddenly need it. >>>
+1. Finally someone who understands. And I suspect the number of people who "need" more than 128 kbit/s are very small..... a couple computer science majors who are also T.A.'s and that's about it. Those people can be granted exemptions on a case-by-case basis.
The rest of the students can survive just fine with 128k. The slow speed will discourage illegal downloads, but still be fast enough to stream internet radio, access class websites, and even watch youtube videos (a huge waste of time but still an option).
Finding out the cute 20-year-old from your "randomstuff" folder is now a 30-something mom who weighs 200 pounds is a real downer. Especially if she's still posing. That sight can really deflate your fantasy.
2000 is not that long ago. Students have just become spoiled. A hear a LOT of professors complaining about how students feel "entitled to an A" just because they showed-up to class. There's been a change in attitude in just this short timespan.
If Stephen King spends 2 years of his life researching, developing, and writing a novel......and you come along & take that novel without payment......you've stolen Mr. King's labor. It's as simple as that. And the same applies when you steal other artists' labor without just-payment.
I do sleep in the same room as my computer, and no the fan noise doesn't bother me at all. Of course, I did set the fan to "variable" so it usually runs quite slow.
I'm not familiar with the latest MacOS, but on Windows you can download "pieces" that are divided into 10-20 megabyte chunks. You don't have to download everything all at once.
My POTS service is Netscape ISP. I've had it connected for ten days without loss of connection. It's great for business travel.
>>>Presumably that was before the widespread use of Facebook, MSN Messenger, Skype, iTunes, Google Documents, email, flash games, YouTube, video on demand services, online shopping, web forums, etc, etc. >>>
And why should the university be providing high-speed access (and the resulting increase in expense) to all these items? I cannot think of a reason. Plus all of those things work quite well on my 50k phoneline-connected laptop. They'd work just fine over a dedicated 128k line too.
The only legitimate thing you listed was gaming and classroom software. Gaming can be done over 128k and so too can any software you've created (which I doubt measures in gigabytes).
The reason I don't see 128 kbit/s as a "horrible" imposition on the students is because my own DSL connection is only 750 kbit/s. I had the option for more, but didn't want to spend $30 a month. ----- Anyway, moving from 750 to 128 doesn't seem like a major downgrade to me.
You don't do that stuff from your dormroom. At least, I didn't. I did major bandwidth-intensive projects in the professor's laboratory, which of course had no speed limit.
I don't know why I was marked troll. Theft of Labor IS a form of stealing, and it's just as wrong as theft of property.
Although I support the "try before you buy" concept, to weed out the good from the bad, I don't support anybody who has shelves filled with illegally-copied CDs or DVDs. If you enjoy the product enough to keep it on your bookshelf, then you should reimburse the artist for his labor. But a legal copy.
>>>What if someone wants to buy a video off of iTunes?
Having a 128 kbit/s line doesn't stop you from doing that. It just makes it take 2-3 hours instead of 1/2 an hour. I don't see the additional wait time as a big deal or problem.
>>>Are you saying they shouldn't be able to because they are in college?
Well... when I went to college I lost cable tv, with just the free locals piped into the rooms. So I had my parents tape different shows for me off Sci-Fi Channel. No big deal really. I figured I only had to deal with the "problem" for two years, and then I would move off-campus. I was willing to sacrifice in order to reach my goal.
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$11,000?!?!? Ha! Not for me. I'd rather pay somewhere around $20 (cost of shipping) and use a slightly-older machine (like a 700 megahertz Pentium with XP).
I don't really need the latest hardware to watch Heroes at nbc.com.
Next time, don't build your house in the 100-year floodplain of a river.
Most businesses set a high initial price for the early adopters with lots of money, and then gradually bring the price down for other more-frugal customers.
In the gaming world that typically means $50 for a just-released game, $30 for a year-old game, and $15-20 for an older game.
If the cost was truly "just bandwidth" then that means you still owe them 1 or 2 pennies. ;-)
By this logic, it's okay to shackle a man to the ground, and make him write book-after-book, but you never pay that man. Instead you just makes copies of his book and send them across the internet. No immorality has been done.
I disagree. It sounds like theft of labor to me.
P.S.
>>>Artsy types are doing it backwards.. They do work up front, for nobody in particular, then demand money for it.
Most businesses operate that way. Levis. Microsoft. Farmers. They create products up-front (jeans, windows, corn), and collect payment later from the customer. This is the way the economy works.
>>>Real workers come to an agreement on what work gets done, then the work gets done and they're paid for it.
Precisely. And you are violating that agreement when you steal Mr. King's book.
You justify your argument that "128k is not fast enough" with an illegal act? And even if it was not illegal, I don't think game-playing justifies increasing bandwidth on an *educational* network and driving-up taxpayer costs. You can wait until Christmas break and play WoW at home. Or during the summer months. (There's that concept again - personal sacrifice.)
You can't be serious. 2-3 hours to download a song??? Look: You're in college; you must know at least some basic math. The typical song is 5 megabytes, but let's assume worst-case of 10 megabytes:
10,000 kilobytes * 8 bits/byte == 80000 kilobits divided by 128 kbit/second == 600 seconds == ~10 minutes
Hmmm. I guess 128 kbit/s is not such a horrible thing after all. It won't hurt your music student to wait 10 minutes to download a song - he or she can do it while they go visit the bathroom. Or snack on ice cream. Or flirt with the cute guy next door. (As for the video lecture, I've watched CW shows like Supernatural over 128k lines. Video works just fine at that speed.)
>>>Who are you to decide?
A taxpayer. You know - the guy whose wallet is funding state colleges. That gives me at least SOME say in the matter.
Furthermore I only have 750k piped into my house, because I can't afford any faster speed. Your room, which I am partially paying-for, should not be getting faster internet than I get. It's my money you're wasting on un-necessary movie downloads. If you want that movie, either wait a few hours for it to stream over - same as I do. Or if you're impatient, go BUY it with your own cash.
Another logical fallacy. The statement "Those who are not stealing don't need more than 128" does NOT imply that those using more than 128 are thieves.
Lots of people use more bandwidth; some fools have 6,000k cable connections just to read email! But in reality they don't need anywhere near that much. 99.9% of college students could survive just fine with a 128k speed limit. (And the other 0.1% could apply for exemptions based upon classroom requirements.)
Ask for an exemption to the universal speed limit, based upon your need to access class projects.
He's spoiled. He's used to his home connection that can zip through huge files in just a few seconds. Heaven forbid he have to wait half an hour ("Oh woah is me"). It kinda reminds me of how my 5-year-old niece acts when I tell her to wait just five minutes. She acts like it's a tragedy.
However since it's the TAXPAYERS that are paying at least half the bill for state universities, I think they are entitled to demand limits. My wallet is not infinitely deep. If I have to limit myself to 750k DSL, then you college students should have to be limited too.
If you don't like it, get an apartment with $200 a month ultrahighspeed internet and commute to class.
>>>Remember -- we're talking about college students here. Nothing they're doing in college requires they have huge bandwidth coming into their dorm rooms. Students having to download/work with large amounts of data are very likely going to be doing so in some sort of research lab on campus. Yes, there are going to be exceptions to this (there always are), but just because one out of one thousand students could *actually* use that bandwidth to the internet, it doesn't mean they "all" suddenly need it.
>>>
+1. Finally someone who understands. And I suspect the number of people who "need" more than 128 kbit/s are very small..... a couple computer science majors who are also T.A.'s and that's about it. Those people can be granted exemptions on a case-by-case basis.
The rest of the students can survive just fine with 128k. The slow speed will discourage illegal downloads, but still be fast enough to stream internet radio, access class websites, and even watch youtube videos (a huge waste of time but still an option).
You don't want to know.
Trust me.
Finding out the cute 20-year-old from your "randomstuff" folder is now a 30-something mom who weighs 200 pounds is a real downer. Especially if she's still posing. That sight can really deflate your fantasy.
"Arrest him! On Facebook it says he's a Libertarian. We can't have these free-thinkers running around!"
2000 is not that long ago. Students have just become spoiled. A hear a LOT of professors complaining about how students feel "entitled to an A" just because they showed-up to class. There's been a change in attitude in just this short timespan.
If Stephen King spends 2 years of his life researching, developing, and writing a novel... ...and you come along & take that novel without payment... ...you've stolen Mr. King's labor. It's as simple as that. And the same applies when you steal other artists' labor without just-payment.
I do sleep in the same room as my computer, and no the fan noise doesn't bother me at all. Of course, I did set the fan to "variable" so it usually runs quite slow.
I'm not familiar with the latest MacOS, but on Windows you can download "pieces" that are divided into 10-20 megabyte chunks. You don't have to download everything all at once.
My POTS service is Netscape ISP. I've had it connected for ten days without loss of connection. It's great for business travel.
>>>Presumably that was before the widespread use of Facebook, MSN Messenger, Skype, iTunes, Google Documents, email, flash games, YouTube, video on demand services, online shopping, web forums, etc, etc.
>>>
And why should the university be providing high-speed access (and the resulting increase in expense) to all these items? I cannot think of a reason. Plus all of those things work quite well on my 50k phoneline-connected laptop. They'd work just fine over a dedicated 128k line too.
The only legitimate thing you listed was gaming and classroom software. Gaming can be done over 128k and so too can any software you've created (which I doubt measures in gigabytes).
P.S.
The reason I don't see 128 kbit/s as a "horrible" imposition on the students is because my own DSL connection is only 750 kbit/s. I had the option for more, but didn't want to spend $30 a month. ----- Anyway, moving from 750 to 128 doesn't seem like a major downgrade to me.
You don't do that stuff from your dormroom. At least, I didn't. I did major bandwidth-intensive projects in the professor's laboratory, which of course had no speed limit.
I don't know why I was marked troll. Theft of Labor IS a form of stealing, and it's just as wrong as theft of property.
Although I support the "try before you buy" concept, to weed out the good from the bad, I don't support anybody who has shelves filled with illegally-copied CDs or DVDs. If you enjoy the product enough to keep it on your bookshelf, then you should reimburse the artist for his labor. But a legal copy.
>>>What if someone wants to buy a video off of iTunes?
Having a 128 kbit/s line doesn't stop you from doing that. It just makes it take 2-3 hours instead of 1/2 an hour. I don't see the additional wait time as a big deal or problem.
>>>Are you saying they shouldn't be able to because they are in college?
Well... when I went to college I lost cable tv, with just the free locals piped into the rooms. So I had my parents tape different shows for me off Sci-Fi Channel. No big deal really. I figured I only had to deal with the "problem" for two years, and then I would move off-campus. I was willing to sacrifice in order to reach my goal.