you've gotta love it when an AC that knows less about hacking than you do posts an inflamatory reply to a joke.
and BTW - WTF is a scientist? could you be slightly more encompasing in your classification of a group of individuals. I suppose we are to infer by your statement that all bio-chem majors know FORTRAN as well.
All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles you fuckwit.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
ok. i didn't read the article because i have absolutely no desire to get an acct with the NYT. but from what everyone is replying....it seems that this is far from newsworthy.
1) If the speech is slanderous or libelous (etc.) then OF COURSE the speaker can be held accountable. Is that revolutionary?? of course not. Did anyone actually expect that slander was a protected right so long as you tried to make sure no one knew it was you that said it?!?!?!
Anonymous speakers are allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences, which is not a right given to us.
you're missing the point. if i say something, and someone discovers that it was i who said it, i'm not really speaking anonymously. Then again, if i speak with true anonymity - you'll never know I said it, and the law is moot. It's a catch 22.
but, of course my original point still stands. Slander and Libel are not covered under the first amendment anyway, so why was slashdot posting this "Oh my god, the government is taking away our rights" FUD?
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
personally i find the idea that anonymous speech is not protected under the first amendment to be ludicrous.
Of course anonymous speech should be held to the same standards as a publicly known speaker. Slander, Libel, and insighting violence, etc. are all exceptions as we know. - But to say that your speech is not protected simply because X person didn't know it was *YOU* that said it is absolutely absurd.
then, of course we get to the question - if someone can find out that you DID in fact make such statement, is it really anonymous speech anymore;-) And of course, truly anonymous speakers may obviously speak with impunity.
oh well, i guess now i can sue the penis bird AC's for causing me mental anguish (tm).
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
If the public can't police themselves, the government has to do it, I guess.
which actually brings up the whole gist of this argument. The government is an instrument of the public. Our government is inherently flawed based on that fact alone.
I'm not worried about censorware in the schools so much as i'm worried about the human behaviour that would even cause someone to think it necessary.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
lol - obviously not a history buff.
but hey. we thank you for buying into those coloring books your parents bought you featuring paul rever and thomas jefferson.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
it seems like this article is trying to insight a riot. I'm not going to bite.
I think the biggest thing is the difference between the open-source movement and the open-source revolution. I would have to say that RH has absolutely nothing to do with the creation of the open-source movement as it was well under way a VERY long time before RH was around. Indeed, the open-source movement even predates RMS's insane babblings about...well..whatever. It could be argued that the open-source movement started when computers did. (I have to take that stance).
Secondly....i don't think there is an open-source revolution. If you ask 100 people on the street if they even know what open-source is, 99 of them will stare at you blankly (this is assuming the other one is CmdrTaco;-)
Even when the concept of open-source becomes an everyday word in (most?) households....can we say X started the revolution?
Let me answer this with a question....who started the american revolution?
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
the webcast appears to be full-up on several of the links i've tried.
on the lighter side. you can't help but feel sorry for jack valenti on this one. I mean, this guy is gonna get smacked around like a red-headed step child. In all honesty, it's kind of sad when you see a little kid get the shehot beat out of him by a bigger, more muscular kid. (even if the little shit is trying to screw all the other kids by making them pay excessive amounts of money for movies, etc.)
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
are you ready for this. In the real world, you're HAVING SEX.
online? you're doing what we like to call "flogging the one eyed wonder weasel" - no online experience will ever replace the sexual experience. It's like comparing a recording to hearing a band live.
it would only sound the same to those who don't listen to music much;-)
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
i wholeheartedly agree with your post with one caveat.
Goldstein doesn't call those who break into computers "crackers." - he still calls them hackers...you might re-read the article to see why. On this point, i firmly agree with him. The underground would have us believe that all hackers are white-hat individuals who only do good, whilst crackers are all evil and sinister. I prefer to believe that hacker is an ethic of curiosity, whether you chose to use the knowledge you've gained in these pursuits are good or evil is moot. And so, i will call (some) people who break into sites hackers based on their level of curiosity and knowledge about computers, etc.
However, because they break into systems illegaly, i will call them criminals.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
aparently the crackers ^H^H^H^H^H^H hackers ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H er...criminals ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H folks who broke into slashdot are more devious than we thought.
they must have reset all the system dates!
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Goldstein is one hell of a spokesperson for the hacker ethic.
The only problem? None of the unenlightened seem to get what he's saying. You can tell by the tone of the questions being directed at him from this article that the writer and Goldstein have come to the table with two complete definitions of the word hacker. The questions are more of a "i know what a hacker is (read: media hacker) and i just want you to answer these questions since you're admitedly one" - two bad Goldstein is admiting to being something of which the author has no idea.
I really think people should pay closer attention to Goldstein's definition of "hacker" though, and his use of the term "cracker." - I agree sincerely with his belief that you can't just use "cracker" as a catchall for anyone who breaks into a system or anyone who "breaks the law" - whatever the hell that is. This makes things too black and white. It makes hackers look like saints and crackers look like uber-villains. Way too black and white for something as complex as the internet.
Oh well, once again, the uneducated will see hackers as villains since they have no concept of what it is to be one. It's like telling someone who's never done drugs before what they're like. (bad analogy;-)
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
ah, but for the boys on slashdot, someone is trying to break into their home at least every couple of minutes.
Personally, if someone was doing this to my house, and another individual came along, fixed the poor lock (or in this case, an open door) and left me a note stating the above...i would be grateful. This is not to say that i believe it's ok for people to attempt to break in to my, or anyone else's house. But do you honestly think we should villify the hackers in this instance?
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
there's also a link at the register that's pretty interesting.
it talks about how the airbord is supposed to bridge the digital divide for those who don't have computer access. ironic being that it costs more than one.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
i think something like this truly embodies the hacker ethic (yes, we're talking about the one you hear about in the news:(
Technically, you could sue these guys and have them thrown in prison (with certain international legal asumptions). Luckily, the boys at slashdot "get it." - This is truly the open source of cracking. Finding a problem and making fixing it. I feel like there should be a sign on the front porch of the internet that says "Please leave this place tidier than you found it"
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
yeah...the phone noise is a HUGE issue in my house right now. Some phones have become fairly unuseable (especially when my dog is eating right next to it;-)
i have to note, you're one of the lucky ones. just wait till your service breaks...then you'll discover why they're called Qworst.
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
While we're trashing DSL providers i thought i'd throw in my two cents. As some of you may or may not know, Colorado (where i live) was one of the only states to allow the Qwest/USWest merger to complete without any stipulations. We're paying for this in every aspect of the game.
If you can get it reliably, DSL is a very nice choice. I'm not sure that the peak bandwidth is as good as cable (from what i've seen) but it's a reliable bandwidth.
The lesson i've learned. Make SURE you can handle the DSL. In the past three weeks, because of the DSL, we have gone ~12 days without any form of phone service because of, first a blown transciever or some such at the CO, next a bad drop line, and then our super smart linemen decided that it would be better to disconnect the particular jack i was running my DSL on (go figure).
Note: this wasn't a situation of "maybe you can get DSL, we'll try it and see" - this was a sure thing, as far as USWest was concerned.
Be careful...your DSL *can* be more trouble than it's worth. Make sure you know what you're getting into (when it's on, it kicks ass).
FluX After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Slashdot Mirror
you've gotta love it when an AC that knows less about hacking than you do posts an inflamatory reply to a joke.
and BTW - WTF is a scientist? could you be slightly more encompasing in your classification of a group of individuals. I suppose we are to infer by your statement that all bio-chem majors know FORTRAN as well.
All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles you fuckwit.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
ok. i didn't read the article because i have absolutely no desire to get an acct with the NYT. but from what everyone is replying....it seems that this is far from newsworthy.
1) If the speech is slanderous or libelous (etc.) then OF COURSE the speaker can be held accountable. Is that revolutionary?? of course not. Did anyone actually expect that slander was a protected right so long as you tried to make sure no one knew it was you that said it?!?!?!
Anonymous speakers are allowed to do whatever they want with no consequences, which is not a right given to us.
you're missing the point. if i say something, and someone discovers that it was i who said it, i'm not really speaking anonymously. Then again, if i speak with true anonymity - you'll never know I said it, and the law is moot. It's a catch 22.
but, of course my original point still stands. Slander and Libel are not covered under the first amendment anyway, so why was slashdot posting this "Oh my god, the government is taking away our rights" FUD?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
personally i find the idea that anonymous speech is not protected under the first amendment to be ludicrous.
;-) And of course, truly anonymous speakers may obviously speak with impunity.
Of course anonymous speech should be held to the same standards as a publicly known speaker. Slander, Libel, and insighting violence, etc. are all exceptions as we know. - But to say that your speech is not protected simply because X person didn't know it was *YOU* that said it is absolutely absurd.
then, of course we get to the question - if someone can find out that you DID in fact make such statement, is it really anonymous speech anymore
oh well, i guess now i can sue the penis bird AC's for causing me mental anguish (tm).
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
If the public can't police themselves, the government has to do it, I guess.
which actually brings up the whole gist of this argument. The government is an instrument of the public. Our government is inherently flawed based on that fact alone.
I'm not worried about censorware in the schools so much as i'm worried about the human behaviour that would even cause someone to think it necessary.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
one item on the list of things you'll need is "[a] programmer that will program a PIC16C84 or 16F84 microprocessor."
Actually, you can find these on ebay. Right next to the "programmers looking for a job coding FORTRAN" section.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
lol - obviously not a history buff. but hey. we thank you for buying into those coloring books your parents bought you featuring paul rever and thomas jefferson.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
it seems like this article is trying to insight a riot. I'm not going to bite.
;-)
I think the biggest thing is the difference between the open-source movement and the open-source revolution. I would have to say that RH has absolutely nothing to do with the creation of the open-source movement as it was well under way a VERY long time before RH was around. Indeed, the open-source movement even predates RMS's insane babblings about...well..whatever. It could be argued that the open-source movement started when computers did. (I have to take that stance).
Secondly....i don't think there is an open-source revolution. If you ask 100 people on the street if they even know what open-source is, 99 of them will stare at you blankly (this is assuming the other one is CmdrTaco
Even when the concept of open-source becomes an everyday word in (most?) households....can we say X started the revolution?
Let me answer this with a question....who started the american revolution?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
I would like to claim prior art on this one so that when "Mission to Mir" comes out this fall, i can sue the fsck out of CBS and never have to work...
and that means more posts for you guys!
Bo-nes....we need more anti....bacterial soap!
Damnit jim, i'm a Doctor not a custodial engineer!!!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
the webcast appears to be full-up on several of the links i've tried.
on the lighter side. you can't help but feel sorry for jack valenti on this one. I mean, this guy is gonna get smacked around like a red-headed step child. In all honesty, it's kind of sad when you see a little kid get the shehot beat out of him by a bigger, more muscular kid. (even if the little shit is trying to screw all the other kids by making them pay excessive amounts of money for movies, etc.)
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
are you ready for this. In the real world, you're HAVING SEX.
;-)
online? you're doing what we like to call "flogging the one eyed wonder weasel" - no online experience will ever replace the sexual experience. It's like comparing a recording to hearing a band live.
it would only sound the same to those who don't listen to music much
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
i wholeheartedly agree with your post with one caveat.
Goldstein doesn't call those who break into computers "crackers." - he still calls them hackers...you might re-read the article to see why. On this point, i firmly agree with him. The underground would have us believe that all hackers are white-hat individuals who only do good, whilst crackers are all evil and sinister. I prefer to believe that hacker is an ethic of curiosity, whether you chose to use the knowledge you've gained in these pursuits are good or evil is moot. And so, i will call (some) people who break into sites hackers based on their level of curiosity and knowledge about computers, etc.
However, because they break into systems illegaly, i will call them criminals.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
society either villifies or glorifies that which it does not understand.
;-)
re-read your name bro - i villify you!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
umm...i take offense to that.
he should read 1984 because it's one of the best books ever written. (with the possible exceptions of Slaughterhouse 5 or Catcher in the Rye)
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
nuff said.
note to self: preview button.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
aparently the crackers ^H^H^H^H^H^H hackers ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H er...criminals ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H folks who broke into slashdot are more devious than we thought.
they must have reset all the system dates!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Goldstein is one hell of a spokesperson for the hacker ethic.
;-)
The only problem? None of the unenlightened seem to get what he's saying. You can tell by the tone of the questions being directed at him from this article that the writer and Goldstein have come to the table with two complete definitions of the word hacker. The questions are more of a "i know what a hacker is (read: media hacker) and i just want you to answer these questions since you're admitedly one" - two bad Goldstein is admiting to being something of which the author has no idea.
I really think people should pay closer attention to Goldstein's definition of "hacker" though, and his use of the term "cracker." - I agree sincerely with his belief that you can't just use "cracker" as a catchall for anyone who breaks into a system or anyone who "breaks the law" - whatever the hell that is. This makes things too black and white. It makes hackers look like saints and crackers look like uber-villains. Way too black and white for something as complex as the internet.
Oh well, once again, the uneducated will see hackers as villains since they have no concept of what it is to be one. It's like telling someone who's never done drugs before what they're like. (bad analogy
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
you know - it's too bad only about .5% of the slashdot reading public knows where he pulled that alias from.
"you mean that's not his real name???"
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
ah, but for the boys on slashdot, someone is trying to break into their home at least every couple of minutes.
Personally, if someone was doing this to my house, and another individual came along, fixed the poor lock (or in this case, an open door) and left me a note stating the above...i would be grateful. This is not to say that i believe it's ok for people to attempt to break in to my, or anyone else's house. But do you honestly think we should villify the hackers in this instance?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
heheh - cool. now you have prior art.
don't worry, i've videotaped my monitor reading your post and mailed it to myself. you're safe.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
i was going to reply to his post, but i think you've summed up exactly where i'm coming from.
thx.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
there's also a link at the register that's pretty interesting.
it talks about how the airbord is supposed to bridge the digital divide for those who don't have computer access. ironic being that it costs more than one.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
i think something like this truly embodies the hacker ethic (yes, we're talking about the one you hear about in the news :(
Technically, you could sue these guys and have them thrown in prison (with certain international legal asumptions). Luckily, the boys at slashdot "get it." - This is truly the open source of cracking. Finding a problem and making fixing it. I feel like there should be a sign on the front porch of the internet that says "Please leave this place tidier than you found it"
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
yeah...the phone noise is a HUGE issue in my house right now. Some phones have become fairly unuseable (especially when my dog is eating right next to it ;-)
i have to note, you're one of the lucky ones. just wait till your service breaks...then you'll discover why they're called Qworst.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
While we're trashing DSL providers i thought i'd throw in my two cents. As some of you may or may not know, Colorado (where i live) was one of the only states to allow the Qwest/USWest merger to complete without any stipulations. We're paying for this in every aspect of the game.
If you can get it reliably, DSL is a very nice choice. I'm not sure that the peak bandwidth is as good as cable (from what i've seen) but it's a reliable bandwidth.
The lesson i've learned. Make SURE you can handle the DSL. In the past three weeks, because of the DSL, we have gone ~12 days without any form of phone service because of, first a blown transciever or some such at the CO, next a bad drop line, and then our super smart linemen decided that it would be better to disconnect the particular jack i was running my DSL on (go figure).
Note: this wasn't a situation of "maybe you can get DSL, we'll try it and see" - this was a sure thing, as far as USWest was concerned.
Be careful...your DSL *can* be more trouble than it's worth. Make sure you know what you're getting into (when it's on, it kicks ass).
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
HaR hAr mIstar sMArty man. yuO think you ar so vary k-Rad foR yuSinG thaT link.
i'LL hAck yuo with the pOwAR of The Lniux mistaR fuNy man. IQC si for luusaRs liek ThRASH.
-Jeff K
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network