Your problem is that you are detailing the pros of dynamic linking and the cons of static linking, but not detailing the cons of dynamic linking or the pros of static linking.
Dynamic linking has put 3 different versions of VC's runtime on this computer in front of me, and thats starting from 18 days ago with a fresh installation of Win7/64.
Also, you seem to think that its the OS's job to maintain C libraries? REALLY??! You know that C is just a programming language, right? That there are various competing compilers, right? Each with its own libraries, right?
Yeah its fine that it loads the whole dynamic library when I am dynamic linking, it is not fine that it imports every module in the library when I am static linking.
Dynamic linking has its own pitfalls (library must be there in a common location, or all is for naught)
because any real application is going to need libc.
Real programs do not need the entire libc imported, either.
It used to be easy to import minimal sets of dependencies, and in fact it used to be default behavior. Libraries were designed in a modular fashion so that a program that only needed the module that contained getc() didnt also pull in the module with atoi(). These days, pulling in any module from a library likely brings in every module, and its a sad sad thing that compilers, linkers, and libraries have strayed so so far from the minimalist-by-default days.
The modern ways are bloat. Defaulting to maximal rather than minimal. I don't care that the target system has 16 gigs of ram, and its programmers who shrug it off because they have so much ram (such as you) that are the problem.
Apple aren't under any obligation to make seamless "plug in and go" syncing for third party players, and it is not anticompetitive of them to not offer this.
It is anti-competitive for Microsoft not be be interoperable with others, but when another company enjoys a monopoly its OK for them to not be. Gotcha.
Lowering the tone again. Hypocrite asshole who makes grand claims that are obvious lies. Apple has a monopoly in online music sales, as much of a monopoly as Microsoft has in operating systems: their are alternatives, but they have low market penetration.
Bullshit. 70% of the market all by itself. The next largest competitor, Amazon, only has about 10% of the market.
Lets check out your next bullshit.
My point about The Missing Sync is that it does *exactly* what Palm needed to do when they wanted syncing with iTunes, and it does it in a totally non-USB-ID-spoofing way.
Thanks for declaring for Palm exactly what they needed to do for them.
It is not integrated into iTunes, which you are refusing to admit. You keep saying that it "syncs with itunes" and other things as a response to the criticism. Its bullshit downplaying and apologizing, disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst.
The difference is a radical one. iPod owners only need iTunes. Everyone else needs iTunes too, but also needs a separate synching application as well, software easily broken by apples next alteration to how they store their music library.
That program doesnt do anything that mitigates the compaints.
The iTunes Store enjoys 70% market dominance and is in fact the worlds largest music retailer (even beats all offline retailers.) The iTunes Client is tied to this service, and is in fact the only legal portal to the monopoly iTunes Store.
The iTunes Client has integrated synching only with iPods. Hence, Apple is using its dominance in one market (music retail) to maintain its dominance in another (portable players.)
Remember the Euro bitch over Windows Media Player? No? Microsoft did way less than what Apple is doing, but got fined, and were forced to distribute Windows Media Player separately in Europe.
You sir, are a willfully blind hypocrite grasping at unrelated things (other non-integrated synching software) as if they mitigate the problem. They don't, asshole.
I am reminded of a skit by the stand-up economist, Yoram Bauman.
"If rational people think at the margin, then people arent rational. Nobody goes to the store and thinks I'm going to buy an orange. I'm going to buy another orange. I'm going to buy another orange. I'm going to buy another orange.... "
The fact is that the iTunes Client is the only interface to the iTunes Store, and iPod's and other Apple devices enjoy the special status of being the only ones with integrated syncing via that iTunes Client.
If Microsoft got a big hit in the MP3 player market first, with its own big hit store, with its own DRM and non-interoperability with competitors, people would be still be bitching about it a decade after Microsoft got fined for anti-trust.
If Microsoft then produced a big-hit client for their competitors operating systems that ninja-installed several other unrelated products when it updated, one of which was so unstable that it caused kernel crashing and even when functioning properly eats up CPU and spams the local network with traffic, you would never ever hear the end of that.
But its Apple, so people welcome these things with a big fat "Bonjour!"
Waiting in the city is exactly what I talked about already. Perhaps you should read the thread before replying, because that post is +4 interesting so unless you only read at +5 you dont even have to do anything other than view the thread to see it.
Waiting in the city offers exactly 1 turn of counter-attack, and stacking up in the city means my catapults get collateral damage on your stack just as yours does on mine.. which is why collateral damage is not a deterrent to stacks. You need a stack big enough to kill my stack in 1 turn, which means having at least as many units stacked up yourself (units throughout most of the game only get 1 attack per turn, so can at most kill 1 unit each.. a hard limit of 1:1 K/D ratio.)
Of course, if you never start the computation at all then you never get results.
The terminating condition is knowing when Moore's law will fail.... far enough in advance to know when it is optimal to begin computation.
Sure..
AFAIK, nobody has yet done any 4+ year computations on silicon, or 2+ year computations for that matter. The record holder for Pi is I believe 2.7 trillion digits and took 131 days, and this wasnt even a super computer.
If the doubling time of computational power is N hours (a bastardization of Moore's law, approximately 17500 hours.. or two years), then it never makes sense to start a calculation that will take more than 2N hours.
For easy visualization of this concept, lets suppose you have a program that will take 6 years to complete if run on todays fastest hardware, and you begin it March 14th, 2010.. It is thus scheduled to complete computation on March 14th, 2016.
But you have an adversary who wants to beat you to the punch and announce the programs output before you do. He can wait until March 14th, 2012, exactly two years later than your start date, and at that time buy the fastest hardware of that time period. On March 14th, 2014 his program will overtake yours, and it will finish on March 14th, 2015.
He beat you by 1 year even though he started 2 years later than you did. As you see, it is a futile waste to perform such very long calculations as long as moore's law holds.
A similar concept was introduced to me in a space-ship through experiment. Humanity builds its first set of inter-galactic space ships which can achieve 50% the speed of light, and these ships set off to explore the universe. Surprisingly those first explorers all arive at stars populated by human beings, humans who themselves set off exploring AFTER they did, because inter-galactic drives improved to 98% the speed of light after only a few more years of development.
Microsoft wrote nearly all the Basic's of the time. Even the Altair (well before Commodore) ended up using Microsoft's Basic after it became apparent that the Basic that Altair's had originally was unsufficient to deal with the modifications people were making to the hardware. This is Microsoft's first Basicproduct, in 1977.
By 1979, if you wanted Basic on your new machine design, you called up Microsoft. Altair, Commodore, Apple, Atari, IBM.. they all went to Microsoft to get their ROM basics. It may not have had Microsofts logo on it, but it was still written by Microsoft.
No 64-bit Firefox builds. No 64-bit Opera builds either.
There is the 64-bit build of Internet Explorer, but honestly.. all the 64-bit OS's I know of support 32-bit binaries, and what reason is there for a browser to have access to more than 2/4 gigs of memory? Is it because some of them leak memory so badly?
I recall a story where the One World Government(tm) existed in a floating city that had no propulsion of its own. It just drifted around aimlessly, by design. Not sure if this was an Asimov, Clarke, or some authors work. Its been way too long.
You send cats at stack, they die, but stack is weakened. You then send horsemen and axemen on your counter-attack and the best they can do is kill 1 attacker for each counter-sttacker, leaving the counter-attackers themselves weakened. Remaining attacker stack finishes off the now weakened horsemen and axemen that are sitting out in the open. Thats 1:1.
So lets translate what youve just said.. You claim that 1:1 K/D ratio solves the stack of doom problem. Gotcha.
I see. You think presidents set the budget and spend money. Got it. For you, its just Bush vs Obama and has nothing to do with congress spending money like there is no tomorrow.
Oh wait.. the congressional budget office literally predicts that for this government there is no tomorrow, with unfunded liabilities in the hundreds of trillions.
Thanks for being an Us vs Them tool tho.. thats great.. that will win people over when the revolution comes.
No, society doesn't. It may need to protect me from your stupidity, or protect you from my stupidity, but it does not need to protect me from my stupidity, or you from yours.
No, but economic growth as measured by GDP nets higher tax receipts. The point is that for any given deficit, the faster GDP grows, the smaller it becomes in real terms.
So your claim is that GDP is a good proxy for tax revenue, therefore GDP is a good indicator of how bad the federal debt is.
While my claim is that we should use the actual figures of actual tax revenue, instead of a proxy of them.
Why would you insist on using a proxy for tax revenue when actual tax revenue data is available?
Slashdot Mirror
Why doesnt that matter?
You seem to be focused on memory footprint, and not total footprint.
Do you ship only the memory footprint the end user will need when running your program, or do you actually have to ship the whole executable?
yeah.. rhetorical question..
Seriously.. this whole "doesnt matter" attitude is the root of the bloat problem.
Your problem is that you are detailing the pros of dynamic linking and the cons of static linking, but not detailing the cons of dynamic linking or the pros of static linking.
Dynamic linking has put 3 different versions of VC's runtime on this computer in front of me, and thats starting from 18 days ago with a fresh installation of Win7/64.
Also, you seem to think that its the OS's job to maintain C libraries? REALLY??! You know that C is just a programming language, right? That there are various competing compilers, right? Each with its own libraries, right?
Yeah its fine that it loads the whole dynamic library when I am dynamic linking, it is not fine that it imports every module in the library when I am static linking.
Dynamic linking has its own pitfalls (library must be there in a common location, or all is for naught)
The sync APIs are right there, all laid out in OS X.
You are being willfully ignorant again, intentionally subsetting to smaller domains in order to ignore the problem.
iTunes on windows is the largest market. Where is the itunes sync API on windows?
because any real application is going to need libc.
Real programs do not need the entire libc imported, either.
It used to be easy to import minimal sets of dependencies, and in fact it used to be default behavior. Libraries were designed in a modular fashion so that a program that only needed the module that contained getc() didnt also pull in the module with atoi(). These days, pulling in any module from a library likely brings in every module, and its a sad sad thing that compilers, linkers, and libraries have strayed so so far from the minimalist-by-default days.
The modern ways are bloat. Defaulting to maximal rather than minimal. I don't care that the target system has 16 gigs of ram, and its programmers who shrug it off because they have so much ram (such as you) that are the problem.
Apple aren't under any obligation to make seamless "plug in and go" syncing for third party players, and it is not anticompetitive of them to not offer this.
It is anti-competitive for Microsoft not be be interoperable with others, but when another company enjoys a monopoly its OK for them to not be. Gotcha.
Lowering the tone again. Hypocrite asshole who makes grand claims that are obvious lies. Apple has a monopoly in online music sales, as much of a monopoly as Microsoft has in operating systems: their are alternatives, but they have low market penetration.
Apple does not have a monopoly on online music
Bullshit. 70% of the market all by itself. The next largest competitor, Amazon, only has about 10% of the market.
Lets check out your next bullshit.
My point about The Missing Sync is that it does *exactly* what Palm needed to do when they wanted syncing with iTunes, and it does it in a totally non-USB-ID-spoofing way.
Thanks for declaring for Palm exactly what they needed to do for them.
It is not integrated into iTunes, which you are refusing to admit. You keep saying that it "syncs with itunes" and other things as a response to the criticism. Its bullshit downplaying and apologizing, disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst.
The difference is a radical one. iPod owners only need iTunes. Everyone else needs iTunes too, but also needs a separate synching application as well, software easily broken by apples next alteration to how they store their music library.
So there were times when you upgraded Linux and software broke?
Thats his point. When Microsoft breaks things to fix something else, people are in in arms.
Then how does this program work then?
That program doesnt do anything that mitigates the compaints.
The iTunes Store enjoys 70% market dominance and is in fact the worlds largest music retailer (even beats all offline retailers.) The iTunes Client is tied to this service, and is in fact the only legal portal to the monopoly iTunes Store.
The iTunes Client has integrated synching only with iPods. Hence, Apple is using its dominance in one market (music retail) to maintain its dominance in another (portable players.)
Remember the Euro bitch over Windows Media Player? No? Microsoft did way less than what Apple is doing, but got fined, and were forced to distribute Windows Media Player separately in Europe.
You sir, are a willfully blind hypocrite grasping at unrelated things (other non-integrated synching software) as if they mitigate the problem. They don't, asshole.
Thats their choice. They also keep choosing to bloat up the browser.
They should bloat up the browser with gstreamer support, but they wont, because that would finally be bloat that makes sense for the end user.
I am reminded of a skit by the stand-up economist, Yoram Bauman.
"If rational people think at the margin, then people arent rational. Nobody goes to the store and thinks I'm going to buy an orange. I'm going to buy another orange. I'm going to buy another orange. I'm going to buy another orange.... "
Its a good thing that I cant rename my payload dropping trojan archive with the same name as one of those well respected crackers, or release groups.
Oh right, because the USB guys are objective.
The fact is that the iTunes Client is the only interface to the iTunes Store, and iPod's and other Apple devices enjoy the special status of being the only ones with integrated syncing via that iTunes Client.
If Microsoft got a big hit in the MP3 player market first, with its own big hit store, with its own DRM and non-interoperability with competitors, people would be still be bitching about it a decade after Microsoft got fined for anti-trust.
If Microsoft then produced a big-hit client for their competitors operating systems that ninja-installed several other unrelated products when it updated, one of which was so unstable that it caused kernel crashing and even when functioning properly eats up CPU and spams the local network with traffic, you would never ever hear the end of that.
But its Apple, so people welcome these things with a big fat "Bonjour!"
You cannot run 64-bit apps on 32-bit windows.
Really.
A single citation of this being performed is all thats required.....
What are the roads for, then?
Waiting in the city is exactly what I talked about already. Perhaps you should read the thread before replying, because that post is +4 interesting so unless you only read at +5 you dont even have to do anything other than view the thread to see it.
Waiting in the city offers exactly 1 turn of counter-attack, and stacking up in the city means my catapults get collateral damage on your stack just as yours does on mine.. which is why collateral damage is not a deterrent to stacks. You need a stack big enough to kill my stack in 1 turn, which means having at least as many units stacked up yourself (units throughout most of the game only get 1 attack per turn, so can at most kill 1 unit each.. a hard limit of 1:1 K/D ratio.)
I know that you are wrong. Google the citation yourself.
Of course, if you never start the computation at all then you never get results. The terminating condition is knowing when Moore's law will fail.... far enough in advance to know when it is optimal to begin computation.
Sure..
AFAIK, nobody has yet done any 4+ year computations on silicon, or 2+ year computations for that matter. The record holder for Pi is I believe 2.7 trillion digits and took 131 days, and this wasnt even a super computer.
Yes and No.
.. It is thus scheduled to complete computation on March 14th, 2016.
If the doubling time of computational power is N hours (a bastardization of Moore's law, approximately 17500 hours.. or two years), then it never makes sense to start a calculation that will take more than 2N hours.
For easy visualization of this concept, lets suppose you have a program that will take 6 years to complete if run on todays fastest hardware, and you begin it March 14th, 2010
But you have an adversary who wants to beat you to the punch and announce the programs output before you do. He can wait until March 14th, 2012, exactly two years later than your start date, and at that time buy the fastest hardware of that time period. On March 14th, 2014 his program will overtake yours, and it will finish on March 14th, 2015.
He beat you by 1 year even though he started 2 years later than you did. As you see, it is a futile waste to perform such very long calculations as long as moore's law holds.
A similar concept was introduced to me in a space-ship through experiment. Humanity builds its first set of inter-galactic space ships which can achieve 50% the speed of light, and these ships set off to explore the universe. Surprisingly those first explorers all arive at stars populated by human beings, humans who themselves set off exploring AFTER they did, because inter-galactic drives improved to 98% the speed of light after only a few more years of development.
Someone is wrong on the internet! ITS YOU!
Microsoft wrote nearly all the Basic's of the time. Even the Altair (well before Commodore) ended up using Microsoft's Basic after it became apparent that the Basic that Altair's had originally was unsufficient to deal with the modifications people were making to the hardware. This is Microsoft's first Basicproduct, in 1977.
By 1979, if you wanted Basic on your new machine design, you called up Microsoft. Altair, Commodore, Apple, Atari, IBM.. they all went to Microsoft to get their ROM basics. It may not have had Microsofts logo on it, but it was still written by Microsoft.
No 64-bit Firefox builds. No 64-bit Opera builds either.
There is the 64-bit build of Internet Explorer, but honestly.. all the 64-bit OS's I know of support 32-bit binaries, and what reason is there for a browser to have access to more than 2/4 gigs of memory? Is it because some of them leak memory so badly?
I recall a story where the One World Government(tm) existed in a floating city that had no propulsion of its own. It just drifted around aimlessly, by design. Not sure if this was an Asimov, Clarke, or some authors work. Its been way too long.
Sigh...
You send cats at stack, they die, but stack is weakened. You then send horsemen and axemen on your counter-attack and the best they can do is kill 1 attacker for each counter-sttacker, leaving the counter-attackers themselves weakened. Remaining attacker stack finishes off the now weakened horsemen and axemen that are sitting out in the open. Thats 1:1.
So lets translate what youve just said.. You claim that 1:1 K/D ratio solves the stack of doom problem. Gotcha.
I see. You think presidents set the budget and spend money. Got it. For you, its just Bush vs Obama and has nothing to do with congress spending money like there is no tomorrow.
Oh wait.. the congressional budget office literally predicts that for this government there is no tomorrow, with unfunded liabilities in the hundreds of trillions.
Thanks for being an Us vs Them tool tho.. thats great.. that will win people over when the revolution comes.
No, society doesn't. It may need to protect me from your stupidity, or protect you from my stupidity, but it does not need to protect me from my stupidity, or you from yours.
No, but economic growth as measured by GDP nets higher tax receipts. The point is that for any given deficit, the faster GDP grows, the smaller it becomes in real terms.
So your claim is that GDP is a good proxy for tax revenue, therefore GDP is a good indicator of how bad the federal debt is.
While my claim is that we should use the actual figures of actual tax revenue, instead of a proxy of them.
Why would you insist on using a proxy for tax revenue when actual tax revenue data is available?
If things aren't getting worse, than why isn't this graph flat? Thats a fucking hockey stick right there.