Then Apple and Samsung knock on your door and ask to make 50 million chips and will PAY YOU MORE.
Amazing how you are bewildered by economics. A better product of course demands a higher price. Your bewilderment is evident in that you think only TSMC can demand a higher price, when in reality anyone paying TSMC that higher price can also demand a higher price on the other end.
Well If I happen to own a massive industry that sells batteries that go bad and have to be replaced every 5 years.....and someone comes up with a battery that doesn't need to be replaced it would most definitely make me a lot of money to buy the patent for a few million dollars and sit on it until it ran out and keep selling the batteries that have to be replaced.
Do you have a citation of a single instance where a company purchased a patent, sat on it, and then when the patent finally expired the market exploded for that thing?
You guys are sounding like those patent conspiracy wanks that dont even know that patents are public information (ie, "the oil industry purchased a patent for insanely efficient engine and has locked it away forever" nut fools)
And because AMD is fabless, they might be able to score some time at TSMC's 10nm fab when it opens this year (2016.) Intel will not be able to (unless both TSMC and Intel disregard unofficial industry rules, something Intel would want but TSMC would view as suicide.)
Intel has admitted that it wont have 10nm up and running until next year (2017). and has denied speculation that it wont be until late next year at the earliest. They managed to turn their 2 year lead into at best 6 months behind, and they cant even keep their current fabs running 24/7 these days (leading to 11% layoffs) because GloFlo and TSMC are killing them on everything but desktop cpu's.
Intel is suddenly not in a good position. They better pull a rabbit out of their research divisions ass.
Slashdot users dont know that. They used to, once upon a time...
Slashdot now thinks that Intel is a cpu design company that also happens to make semiconductors, rather than a semiconductor company that also happens to design cpu's.
Intels process was about 2 years ahead of everybody, but they couldn't keep it up.. the tick tock is over with and they are now laying off because they see the writing on the wall, which is that their process lead ends this year with almost no hope of getting it back and maybe they will even fall behind now.
GloFlo and Toshiba have reached parity, and TSMC will be the new leader when their Fab 15 starts running off 10nm chips before Intel can.
Professional driver notes that he can drive his favorite supercar faster than a ford station-wagon can go. You are suggesting he go school the ford engineers so that their station-wagons become super-wagons.
but, in the second year, you've retooled on a new process
Fabs in the process of being retooled dont manufacture anything, do not need lots of employees, and it takes years to finish retooling. The layoffs in this sort of case happen when retooling begins, not when manufacturing finally continues.
You're speaking as if the foundries provide Intel a unique competitive market position.
No, I am speaking as if the foundries are what Intel does. Intel is a manufacturer.
The vast majority of Intels employees manufacture and vast majority of its manufacturing is not cpu's. Now here we are, in a discussion about significant layoffs, and you keep on harping on that one factoid that is actually only meaningful for a small percentage of a small percentage of their labor force.
Those vertically-integrated foundries can be a capital nightmare.
Laughable bullshit. You are hand-waving.
As for the forest, you pointed out in your previous message how many more chips get put into a computer vs a mobile device.
No I didn't. You are showing how awfully ignorant you are by not understanding the point of the facts given to you.
Cell phone:
1 CPU - Might be an ARM design, might not be ARM design. 100% certain that someone other than ARM manufactured it.
1 GPU - Can't be ARM. 100% certain that someone other than ARM designed and manufactured it. Might be Intel.
4 Flash chips - Can't be ARM. 100% certain that someone other than ARM designed and manufactured it. Might be Intel.
Thats not even getting into the chipsets, the ram, and so on.
Stop thinking that your irrelevant factoid matters. Its dwarfed by reality.
Now that its been explained to clearly to you, if you keep it up it makes you an intentionally dishonest fuck.
The companies that compete with Intel are Global Foundries, TSMC, Toshiba, Micron, Samsung, Texas Instruments, etc..
Intel is a manufacturer. ARM is not.
The manufacture of flash chips alone dwarfs any impact that ARM could possibly have.
Inside my desktop:
1 CPU
1 GPU
16 flash chips
Inside a smart phone:
1 CPU
1 GPU
1 ASIC
4 or more flash chips.
Picking up the pattern here?..and we havent even gotten to RAM chips yet.
If Intel is laying off so many, its because some of their fabs arent running 24/7. Intel has 16 fabs and maybe 3 of those (the most advanced) actually make CPU's. The rest bang out flash, ram, etc. Eventually the current "advanced" fabs wont be so advanced and will be making flash, ram, etc..
Intel can also manufacturer ARM designs (and has so in the past) so that cannot be it. The fact that they are not producing ARM designs while simultaneously they are laying off workers.. that doesnt tell a 'beaten by ARM' story like you imagine. It instead tells a 'beaten by the other foundries' story.
Its not about chip designs. Its about production capacity vs demand.
If a manufacturer is doing significant layoffs, its because their production capacity far exceeds the demand for it. You are waving your hands about a chip design you think isnt very good, that you don't see it in many products, but that is not a worthwhile measure at all as to whether or not they should continue making that design.
Apparently you are so naive that you imagine that Intel just runs off millions of chips without them already being sold. I'm sure Intel makes little to nothing that isnt already sold before they make it.
I know we want to blame somebody. Anybody. Who is responsible?
Third order responsibility goes to the sales people, that apparently can't land enough contracts to keep all their fabs running 24/7.
Second order responsibility goes to the director of sales, who either hasnt replaced the bad eggs or hasn't provided enough staff to land contracts fast enough.
First order responsibility goes to the executives, who havent replaced the director that has failed to maintain contractual demand for the companies existing capacity.
There. That wasn't so hard. Its only hard when you complicate it unnecessarily with pretensive irrelevant hand waving bullshit.
Point being that a cell phone with with a data plan costs like $600 per year
My phone costs me $84/year. You clearly do not know what a minor expense actually is.
$600 is easily rent for a month for a poor person, at least everywhere but high-demand areas that refuse to allow enough housing to be built to handle that demand.
The reason those numbers dont add up to 100% is because some peoples bad decisions are subsidized from my taxes. There they are with $600/year phones while me with my $84/year phone pays taxes to cover their irresponsibility.
You can get a decent Android for $40 and a prepaid plan for as low as $20.
..or you can get a flip phone for $10 or less, and then pay about $7/month.
Bad decisions accumulate. If you are poor, you shouldnt be spending so much more than necessary, not at the initial purchase and certainly not on a monthly basis.
If I instead had to pay for comcast, and a home phone I'd be paying more and have to be at my house to gain any benefit from them.
It is only in bad decision world that you have to pay for such things. In good decision world, you realize that things are optional, especially things you cannot really afford.
I don't understand how or why someone who is living below the poverty line would even have a smartphone and pay for a dataplan, it really sounds like poor prioritization skills to me.
It would be nice if there was anything worth watching on Prime. EVERY movie I have searched for is not available in Prime Video and I am not talking about the latest movies either. Then to top it off, free 2 day shipping does not mean 2 day shipping. It means they will ship it when they are good and ready to do it.
Also don't forget that most tv series on prime are: First season is free streaming, then you pay per episode for the rest of the seasons.
Slashdot Mirror
Then Apple and Samsung knock on your door and ask to make 50 million chips and will PAY YOU MORE.
Amazing how you are bewildered by economics. A better product of course demands a higher price. Your bewilderment is evident in that you think only TSMC can demand a higher price, when in reality anyone paying TSMC that higher price can also demand a higher price on the other end.
You guys are such uneducated simpletons.
Well If I happen to own a massive industry that sells batteries that go bad and have to be replaced every 5 years.....and someone comes up with a battery that doesn't need to be replaced it would most definitely make me a lot of money to buy the patent for a few million dollars and sit on it until it ran out and keep selling the batteries that have to be replaced.
Do you have a citation of a single instance where a company purchased a patent, sat on it, and then when the patent finally expired the market exploded for that thing?
You guys are sounding like those patent conspiracy wanks that dont even know that patents are public information (ie, "the oil industry purchased a patent for insanely efficient engine and has locked it away forever" nut fools)
Intel did drop the ball on mobile and should have been out on the market early on that one. But, somehow, they let it get away from them.
They forgot who they were competing with. ARM and AMD arent their competition. TSMC, GloFlo, Toshiba, etc are their competition.
All of these companies will have equal (2) or better (1) fabs this year.
(2) GloFlo and Toshiba are already running off 14nm chips.
(1) TSMC opens up a 10nm fab this year.
And because AMD is fabless, they might be able to score some time at TSMC's 10nm fab when it opens this year (2016.) Intel will not be able to (unless both TSMC and Intel disregard unofficial industry rules, something Intel would want but TSMC would view as suicide.)
Intel has admitted that it wont have 10nm up and running until next year (2017). and has denied speculation that it wont be until late next year at the earliest. They managed to turn their 2 year lead into at best 6 months behind, and they cant even keep their current fabs running 24/7 these days (leading to 11% layoffs) because GloFlo and TSMC are killing them on everything but desktop cpu's.
Intel is suddenly not in a good position. They better pull a rabbit out of their research divisions ass.
Slashdot users dont know that. They used to, once upon a time...
Slashdot now thinks that Intel is a cpu design company that also happens to make semiconductors, rather than a semiconductor company that also happens to design cpu's.
Intels process was about 2 years ahead of everybody, but they couldn't keep it up.. the tick tock is over with and they are now laying off because they see the writing on the wall, which is that their process lead ends this year with almost no hope of getting it back and maybe they will even fall behind now.
GloFlo and Toshiba have reached parity, and TSMC will be the new leader when their Fab 15 starts running off 10nm chips before Intel can.
Are you sure that Intels market segmentation isnt the result of poor yields?
If something is broken on a lot of chips when they are made, you gotta figure out how to sell them anyways.
Most people with PCs own C2Ds that aren't going to be replaced until the PSU dies, and maybe not even then.
Thats when I make my move and pick up their "broken" computer at their tagsale.
"They" do not think it. You think it. Stop projecting.
Personally, I hope they use her Civil War woodcut portrait [wikimedia.org], which shows her holding a rifle.
The progressives that want her on the bill also do not want a gun on the bill.
Actually... did I say gun? Clearly that is an assault weapon.
..maybe because he isnt using GCC or LLVM
Lets put your "suggestion" into a car analogy:
Professional driver notes that he can drive his favorite supercar faster than a ford station-wagon can go. You are suggesting he go school the ford engineers so that their station-wagons become super-wagons.
My current work is compiling firmware for an embedded 8051 core
Some people here would quite dishonestly have you believe that Intel spends the majority of its time manufacturing x86 chips.
but, in the second year, you've retooled on a new process
Fabs in the process of being retooled dont manufacture anything, do not need lots of employees, and it takes years to finish retooling. The layoffs in this sort of case happen when retooling begins, not when manufacturing finally continues.
You're speaking as if the foundries provide Intel a unique competitive market position.
No, I am speaking as if the foundries are what Intel does. Intel is a manufacturer.
The vast majority of Intels employees manufacture and vast majority of its manufacturing is not cpu's. Now here we are, in a discussion about significant layoffs, and you keep on harping on that one factoid that is actually only meaningful for a small percentage of a small percentage of their labor force.
Those vertically-integrated foundries can be a capital nightmare.
Laughable bullshit. You are hand-waving.
As for the forest, you pointed out in your previous message how many more chips get put into a computer vs a mobile device.
No I didn't. You are showing how awfully ignorant you are by not understanding the point of the facts given to you.
Cell phone:
1 CPU - Might be an ARM design, might not be ARM design. 100% certain that someone other than ARM manufactured it.
1 GPU - Can't be ARM. 100% certain that someone other than ARM designed and manufactured it. Might be Intel.
4 Flash chips - Can't be ARM. 100% certain that someone other than ARM designed and manufactured it. Might be Intel.
Thats not even getting into the chipsets, the ram, and so on.
Stop thinking that your irrelevant factoid matters. Its dwarfed by reality.
Now that its been explained to clearly to you, if you keep it up it makes you an intentionally dishonest fuck.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
The forest is the 16 foundries that Intel has, while its you that seems to be missing the forest and focusing on the few fabs that makes x86 chips.
Yes, ARM has a nice low power CPU design. Yes Intel also designs CPU''s. These fact are irrelevant. You are missing the forest.
The companies that compete with Intel are Global Foundries, TSMC, Toshiba, Micron, Samsung, Texas Instruments, etc..
..and we havent even gotten to RAM chips yet.
Intel is a manufacturer. ARM is not.
The manufacture of flash chips alone dwarfs any impact that ARM could possibly have.
Inside my desktop:
1 CPU
1 GPU
16 flash chips
Inside a smart phone:
1 CPU
1 GPU
1 ASIC
4 or more flash chips.
Picking up the pattern here?
If Intel is laying off so many, its because some of their fabs arent running 24/7. Intel has 16 fabs and maybe 3 of those (the most advanced) actually make CPU's. The rest bang out flash, ram, etc. Eventually the current "advanced" fabs wont be so advanced and will be making flash, ram, etc..
Intel can also manufacturer ARM designs (and has so in the past) so that cannot be it. The fact that they are not producing ARM designs while simultaneously they are laying off workers.. that doesnt tell a 'beaten by ARM' story like you imagine. It instead tells a 'beaten by the other foundries' story.
sigh
Its not about chip designs. Its about production capacity vs demand.
If a manufacturer is doing significant layoffs, its because their production capacity far exceeds the demand for it. You are waving your hands about a chip design you think isnt very good, that you don't see it in many products, but that is not a worthwhile measure at all as to whether or not they should continue making that design.
Apparently you are so naive that you imagine that Intel just runs off millions of chips without them already being sold. I'm sure Intel makes little to nothing that isnt already sold before they make it.
I know we want to blame somebody. Anybody. Who is responsible?
Third order responsibility goes to the sales people, that apparently can't land enough contracts to keep all their fabs running 24/7.
Second order responsibility goes to the director of sales, who either hasnt replaced the bad eggs or hasn't provided enough staff to land contracts fast enough.
First order responsibility goes to the executives, who havent replaced the director that has failed to maintain contractual demand for the companies existing capacity.
There. That wasn't so hard. Its only hard when you complicate it unnecessarily with pretensive irrelevant hand waving bullshit.
Point being that a cell phone with with a data plan costs like $600 per year
My phone costs me $84/year. You clearly do not know what a minor expense actually is.
$600 is easily rent for a month for a poor person, at least everywhere but high-demand areas that refuse to allow enough housing to be built to handle that demand.
The reason those numbers dont add up to 100% is because some peoples bad decisions are subsidized from my taxes. There they are with $600/year phones while me with my $84/year phone pays taxes to cover their irresponsibility.
You can get a decent Android for $40 and a prepaid plan for as low as $20.
Bad decisions accumulate. If you are poor, you shouldnt be spending so much more than necessary, not at the initial purchase and certainly not on a monthly basis.
If I instead had to pay for comcast, and a home phone I'd be paying more and have to be at my house to gain any benefit from them.
It is only in bad decision world that you have to pay for such things. In good decision world, you realize that things are optional, especially things you cannot really afford.
I don't understand how or why someone who is living below the poverty line would even have a smartphone and pay for a dataplan, it really sounds like poor prioritization skills to me.
This is exactly why a lot of poor remain poor.
It took God 7 days to create the universe because he was operating on C.P. time.
I'll get my grandmother on that.
It would be nice if there was anything worth watching on Prime. EVERY movie I have searched for is not available in Prime Video and I am not talking about the latest movies either. Then to top it off, free 2 day shipping does not mean 2 day shipping. It means they will ship it when they are good and ready to do it.
Also don't forget that most tv series on prime are: First season is free streaming, then you pay per episode for the rest of the seasons.
Fuck you prime.
Warning: This ladder is not a flotation device.
I even have evidence to the contrary:
Terrorists arent using drones to take down airplanes in populated areas.