And in addition and seperate to any possible licensing fees for just the WMA format, I imagine there would be even more - money (lic fees, other) and work- involved in getting the iPod to play the WMAs people care about... that is, various DRM'd ones that are the songs folks have purchased in some iTMS-like service that sells WMAs rather than AACs.
After all, if it's a boring, non-DRM'd WMA, why not just convert it to AAC or MP3?
And wouldn't it be nice if my ass played OGGs files too? Then I wouldn't even need an iPod or any other player!
Wouldn't it be nice if it had a codec for NewtonScript bytecode? I mean, think about it; if you can have the spec for AAC, OGG and WMA, it is just a small step to get to decoding bytecode, and NewtonScript bytecode is even simpler than Java's. So...
I think Apple is going to come out with a new PDA very soon. It'll be called the iOggtonpod. It'll OWN!
Duh. Apple is supposed to be the one company that has an interest different than the rest of them- it is supposed to exist only to give its fans what they want, rather than to bring profit to its shareholders.
So, since we know this as a fact, something more dubious must be afoot! Like, Micro$hafT is being EVIL! AND preventing from Apple from making it an OPEN STANDARD! MUST BE!
And to a lot of other folks, the Zaurus C7x0 is not as useful as a laptop or more traditional palmtop because it doesn't have a touch-typeable keyboard. It has a pretty nice thumboard, yes; but if you are going to be doing a lot of typing, you really need a pocketop or something.
But yeah, I'd rather have the Zaurus than nothing, though.:) But this flipstart thing isn't the first of its kind; you have been able to get similar devices for quite a while, some even with a huge hard drive, as long as you were willing to go out and buy the same PCMCIA drive that is in this thing.
Think about it man- in the final version, the keyboard won't be that small. The kb projector will project a keyboard that is approximately 2.5 by 1 meters; you will have the option of either punching or stomping on a key, depending on your own setup. With this configuration, the whole tactile feedback problem solves itself.
I'm glad to see that Ruby has support for something like this now, even though it may be in its early stages. I've not any benchmarks. I've used the FFI for some things, but never for anything really performance intensive- I've used it to get information from Windows or Mac OS, for me largely to control the environment, using Squeak as a desktop, and getting a list of the apps/windows to switch to, etc.
It seems Swiki.net seems to be floundering some lately. It's a place that hosts the wiki. I should find somewhere else to put it.:/ Thanks for the heads up on the Toshiba Dynapad thinkg. I think I've seen a reference to it, though I can't recall the specifics.
Dynapad runs anywhere that Squeak Smalltalk does. As far as PDAs, that means Windows CE (incl PocketPC) and Linux-based PDAs, as well as a number of desktop and server platforms, including Windows 9x/NT/2k/XP, Linux (via framebuffer, DirectFB, SDL, and X11), various Unixes via X11, Mac OS classic and X. Feel free to email me (reic0024 at d.umn.edu) if you've any other questions.
Stupid moderators, that should be marked "Funny" not "Interesting." I know it can be hard to see through toungue in cheek references to silly punditism, but c'mon. I just told you, so go ahead and fix it.:)
I agree, regexps are a good thing. But as you say, there are libraries; and unlike in more monolithic languages like Ruby, Python and Perl there really isn't a difference between regexs being "builtin" or "just a library" in Smalltalk. It is a straight forward task for even a pretty new Smalltalk programmer to extend or modify syntax. Or, at the very least, the adding of a "~=" operator in Smalltalk is trivial- operators are regular methods. I could change the way that plus (+) worked if I wanted.
Again, another one for the power of Smalltalk over more inflexible languages.
Hrmm, I don't know what Smalltalk you're thinking of, but I can't think of one that doesn't allow C extensions. Squeak Smalltalk does. And unlike Perl, Python and Ruby, Squeak Smalltalk (and other Smalltalks; also many Lisp systems) has an FFI as well as the ability to write C plug-ins.
What is an FFI? Think of it as a C plug-in but without all the work. In Squeak, the FFI works on pretty much every platform Squeak does- Mac OS 9/X, Unix, Linux, Windows, RISC OS, and others. It allows you to specify the function name, the arguments and types it takes. And then you can call the function. Takes one line of code to declare it. Less work than SWIG, even.
Syntax looks something like this:
displayDemoWindow: display <apicall 'libgtk.so' DisplayDemoWindow ( int display) >
So, anything else? I hope it isn't all you've got...
OK, I'll bite- how is Ruby "pragmatic Smalltalk?" What is so much more "pragmatic" about the syntax or usage of Ruby? I'm dying to hear your thoughts.
Don't get me wrong, Ruby is a nice language... But it really doesn't have anything on Smalltalk. And with Smalltalk being almost 20 years older than Ruby, I'd hope they would do more to it than adding regexps and giving it a slightly more Algolish syntax.
Ruby likes to pretend it's some kind of Smalltalk successor. It isn't. Ruby is a Perl successor that borrowed a few tidbits from Smalltalk.
A good observation. Ruby is definately not a Smalltalk successor, although it is a nicer language (on paper->in my head) than Python or Perl is, at least to me. But it has nothing to compell me from switching to it from Smalltalk. And when I want to do a task that Ruby would be a tiny bit better, I just use Perl anyway. More fun, somehow- at least to me.:)
Ruby may claim to be (Perl + Smalltalk) / 2, but the syntax really isn't all that much like Smalltalk. The influence is certainly there, there is no doubt about that... But Ruby syntax is not Smalltalk syntax.
So, I take it that you really don't know Smalltalk?
Sure, defining local variables is similar. But there are plenty of other differences. That whole dot-operator is one among many.
I'm a Smalltalk coder who also knows Ruby. I continue to choose Smalltalk over Ruby for a number of reasons, including the environment/IDE of any Smalltalk (GNU Smalltalk excepted) is better than anything I've found for Ruby so far.
But then again, to each his own. I'm not dissing Ruby, so don't fllp.
Is there anything new with this? I thought this was something known for quite a while.
Another nasty factor contributing to the runaway positive feedback loop is the warming of bogs. The strip of bogs around the northern part of the world holds 25% of all of the world's carbon- it's one helluva sink. As the climate warms up, the bogs start warming up, which will start releasing a lot of methane and CO2. A professor here at my school (John Pastor) has been doing work measuring this. Spooky stuff.
Details, details, details. Add a servent dwarf and you're back in business. Only one hand. Hell, with an adequate intelligence, this dwarf could make it so you didn't need to use *any* hands! It just gets better and better...
But I don't know if those languages are what he was looking for. He didn't just say he wanted an all objects language- of those there are plenty. He mentioned one like C++ or Java, so I am guessing he just wants a Java or C++ clone that ls all objects, retaining syntax and other things.
Out of the languages you list, perhaps Dylan is the closest. Cish syntax, but lisp inside. mmm gewd!
And people still use Smalltalk, too. I wouldn't say that Smalltalk is ancient now, in any way other than age. It is over 30 years old. So sure, it is a lot older than Java, but younger than other languages still in wide use. And as far as the technology behind Smalltalk is concerned, it is still breaking ground, evolving. It is still ahead of its time, doing things in ways that everyone else won't be until another 10, 20 years.
And it isn't useless. The only mostly useless language I have known is PILOT. Smalltalk may not be used everywhere C++ or Java is, but in most of the places those langauges are used it would be a better choice.
So, in other words, it'd be like the Zaurus- but even slower! Even with a "Quartz + Aqua lite" and a "trimmed down version of Darwin" it'd still be a beast.
What would be better in most respects- and more likely from Apple's perspective- would be something based on PalmOS 6. Being something closer to a "real OS" finally, it should serve as an adequate platform for InkWell. Lots of whacky Apple customizations and extensions, taking it even past the kind of stuff Sony has done.
It really is a damn shame about InkWell. Almost no one uses it- but that's little surprise. You have to have a tablet. I don't even think I can get at the API without having a tablet plugged in.:/
I concurr. PocketPCs are actually very powerful- more useful for running Unix ports than the Zaurus ever was for me.:) A real multitasking OS.
Although, I'll never buy a 240x320 device, not these days. PPC makers should really get with the times- the Toshiba e800 being the one exception. But at least 320x480- come on guys!
And yes, that "smart minimize" (ha!) button is one of the worst things I've seen in *any* UI. But, it's easily fixable in a transparent way. I used to use Magic Button on a PPC 2k2 device- makes that close button actually close the app. The app doesn't change anything else about the way your system looks or works, it only does two things- makes sure that every app has a close button (some don't, you have to use the menu to exit, or worse, another tool!) and that when you tap the X it quits the app entirely.
I'm not saying that Missing Sync isn't nice- from what I've read, it's a really nice package. I just recently got a Clie NX70V- my first PalmOS device, and a damn nice one at that- but don't think I'll spring for Mark/Space. I've just stuck to downloading PRC+PDBs to the Memory Stick and coping it from there if I need it internally, and the occasional sync at work on the Windows machine there.
But the iTunes syncing looks sweet, I must admit. That'd be handy to have. But then again, not much different from just dragging the album I want to listen to onto the MS using the MSImport app- shows the Clie's memory stick as a drive on Windows.
There's been no indication from Apple or Mark/Space that they might be bought out. Don't get me wrong- it's a nice wish, one which I can heartily join in on. But I certainly wouldn't count on it, nor would I hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
Yeah, it is kind of a weird res. Wide VGA (WVGA) I think it's called. The device is the Sigmarion III, a device currently only for sale in Japan. I got mine through conics.net, but like the Zaurus models, you can get it through a number of importers. A real english ROM is on the way, although I've not had a problem- the english apps I run work fine on the device. It's a great device. I use it for web browsing, development (not just *writing* code- the whole process all on the siggy), email via ssh, RDP+X11+VNC, etc etc.
There are a couple of other devices that have the same screen that I know of- the NEXiO S160 is the other. Drool-worthy, that machine is... But expensive as hell! $1250 for the NEXiO S160 - sans keyboard, a CPU that's half as fast vs $500 for the Sigmarion III.
Indeed, Newton HWR jokes really don't apply to anything past the Newton OS 1.x. In Newton OS 2.0- which is what the MP120/2.0, MP130, MP2x00 and eMate run- the HWR is *very* good. Even on a slower CPU, like the eMate and MP130 use, both of which are in the neighborhood of ARM9s at 25 MHz. The only Newton OS 2.x devices I had used were MP2x00s, but I came into an eMate I intended to sell on eBay which I had to play with for a while first. I was surprised how well the HWR did even on the slow CPU- almost as fast and just as accurate as my 162 MHz MP2100.
Slashdot Mirror
And in addition and seperate to any possible licensing fees for just the WMA format, I imagine there would be even more - money (lic fees, other) and work- involved in getting the iPod to play the WMAs people care about... that is, various DRM'd ones that are the songs folks have purchased in some iTMS-like service that sells WMAs rather than AACs.
After all, if it's a boring, non-DRM'd WMA, why not just convert it to AAC or MP3?
Yeah, totally.
And wouldn't it be nice if my ass played OGGs files too? Then I wouldn't even need an iPod or any other player!
Wouldn't it be nice if it had a codec for NewtonScript bytecode? I mean, think about it; if you can have the spec for AAC, OGG and WMA, it is just a small step to get to decoding bytecode, and NewtonScript bytecode is even simpler than Java's. So...
I think Apple is going to come out with a new PDA very soon. It'll be called the iOggtonpod. It'll OWN!
Duh. Apple is supposed to be the one company that has an interest different than the rest of them- it is supposed to exist only to give its fans what they want, rather than to bring profit to its shareholders.
So, since we know this as a fact, something more dubious must be afoot! Like, Micro$hafT is being EVIL! AND preventing from Apple from making it an OPEN STANDARD! MUST BE!
And to a lot of other folks, the Zaurus C7x0 is not as useful as a laptop or more traditional palmtop because it doesn't have a touch-typeable keyboard. It has a pretty nice thumboard, yes; but if you are going to be doing a lot of typing, you really need a pocketop or something.
:) But this flipstart thing isn't the first of its kind; you have been able to get similar devices for quite a while, some even with a huge hard drive, as long as you were willing to go out and buy the same PCMCIA drive that is in this thing.
But yeah, I'd rather have the Zaurus than nothing, though.
But as they point out, this is just a prototype.
Think about it man- in the final version, the keyboard won't be that small. The kb projector will project a keyboard that is approximately 2.5 by 1 meters; you will have the option of either punching or stomping on a key, depending on your own setup. With this configuration, the whole tactile feedback problem solves itself.
Hey kid
Do you want to join the PEN 15 club?
You do?
Ok, them come here. To be a member, I just have to write the name of the club on your hand. Yeah, that's it. PEN 15.
huh.
Haven't asked anyone to join that club for a couple years.
(I can't be the only one who heard that shit in elemtary school!)
I'm glad to see that Ruby has support for something like this now, even though it may be in its early stages. I've not any benchmarks. I've used the FFI for some things, but never for anything really performance intensive- I've used it to get information from Windows or Mac OS, for me largely to control the environment, using Squeak as a desktop, and getting a list of the apps/windows to switch to, etc.
Ahoy-
:/ Thanks for the heads up on the Toshiba Dynapad thinkg. I think I've seen a reference to it, though I can't recall the specifics.
It seems Swiki.net seems to be floundering some lately. It's a place that hosts the wiki. I should find somewhere else to put it.
Dynapad runs anywhere that Squeak Smalltalk does. As far as PDAs, that means Windows CE (incl PocketPC) and Linux-based PDAs, as well as a number of desktop and server platforms, including Windows 9x/NT/2k/XP, Linux (via framebuffer, DirectFB, SDL, and X11), various Unixes via X11, Mac OS classic and X. Feel free to email me (reic0024 at d.umn.edu) if you've any other questions.
Stupid moderators, that should be marked "Funny" not "Interesting." I know it can be hard to see through toungue in cheek references to silly punditism, but c'mon. I just told you, so go ahead and fix it. :)
I agree, regexps are a good thing. But as you say, there are libraries; and unlike in more monolithic languages like Ruby, Python and Perl there really isn't a difference between regexs being "builtin" or "just a library" in Smalltalk. It is a straight forward task for even a pretty new Smalltalk programmer to extend or modify syntax. Or, at the very least, the adding of a "~=" operator in Smalltalk is trivial- operators are regular methods. I could change the way that plus (+) worked if I wanted.
Again, another one for the power of Smalltalk over more inflexible languages.
Hrmm, I don't know what Smalltalk you're thinking of, but I can't think of one that doesn't allow C extensions. Squeak Smalltalk does. And unlike Perl, Python and Ruby, Squeak Smalltalk (and other Smalltalks; also many Lisp systems) has an FFI as well as the ability to write C plug-ins.
What is an FFI? Think of it as a C plug-in but without all the work. In Squeak, the FFI works on pretty much every platform Squeak does- Mac OS 9/X, Unix, Linux, Windows, RISC OS, and others. It allows you to specify the function name, the arguments and types it takes. And then you can call the function. Takes one line of code to declare it. Less work than SWIG, even.
Syntax looks something like this:
displayDemoWindow: display
<apicall 'libgtk.so' DisplayDemoWindow ( int display) >
So, anything else? I hope it isn't all you've got...
OK, I'll bite- how is Ruby "pragmatic Smalltalk?" What is so much more "pragmatic" about the syntax or usage of Ruby? I'm dying to hear your thoughts.
Don't get me wrong, Ruby is a nice language... But it really doesn't have anything on Smalltalk. And with Smalltalk being almost 20 years older than Ruby, I'd hope they would do more to it than adding regexps and giving it a slightly more Algolish syntax.
Ruby likes to pretend it's some kind of Smalltalk successor. It isn't. Ruby is a Perl successor that borrowed a few tidbits from Smalltalk.
:)
A good observation. Ruby is definately not a Smalltalk successor, although it is a nicer language (on paper->in my head) than Python or Perl is, at least to me. But it has nothing to compell me from switching to it from Smalltalk. And when I want to do a task that Ruby would be a tiny bit better, I just use Perl anyway. More fun, somehow- at least to me.
Ruby may claim to be (Perl + Smalltalk) / 2, but the syntax really isn't all that much like Smalltalk. The influence is certainly there, there is no doubt about that... But Ruby syntax is not Smalltalk syntax.
So, I take it that you really don't know Smalltalk?
Sure, defining local variables is similar. But there are plenty of other differences. That whole dot-operator is one among many.
I'm a Smalltalk coder who also knows Ruby. I continue to choose Smalltalk over Ruby for a number of reasons, including the environment/IDE of any Smalltalk (GNU Smalltalk excepted) is better than anything I've found for Ruby so far.
But then again, to each his own. I'm not dissing Ruby, so don't fllp.
Is there anything new with this? I thought this was something known for quite a while.
Another nasty factor contributing to the runaway positive feedback loop is the warming of bogs. The strip of bogs around the northern part of the world holds 25% of all of the world's carbon- it's one helluva sink. As the climate warms up, the bogs start warming up, which will start releasing a lot of methane and CO2. A professor here at my school (John Pastor) has been doing work measuring this. Spooky stuff.
Details, details, details. Add a servent dwarf and you're back in business. Only one hand. Hell, with an adequate intelligence, this dwarf could make it so you didn't need to use *any* hands! It just gets better and better...
But I don't know if those languages are what he was looking for. He didn't just say he wanted an all objects language- of those there are plenty. He mentioned one like C++ or Java, so I am guessing he just wants a Java or C++ clone that ls all objects, retaining syntax and other things.
Out of the languages you list, perhaps Dylan is the closest. Cish syntax, but lisp inside. mmm gewd!
And people still use Smalltalk, too. I wouldn't say that Smalltalk is ancient now, in any way other than age. It is over 30 years old. So sure, it is a lot older than Java, but younger than other languages still in wide use. And as far as the technology behind Smalltalk is concerned, it is still breaking ground, evolving. It is still ahead of its time, doing things in ways that everyone else won't be until another 10, 20 years.
And it isn't useless. The only mostly useless language I have known is PILOT. Smalltalk may not be used everywhere C++ or Java is, but in most of the places those langauges are used it would be a better choice.
So, in other words, it'd be like the Zaurus- but even slower! Even with a "Quartz + Aqua lite" and a "trimmed down version of Darwin" it'd still be a beast.
:/
What would be better in most respects- and more likely from Apple's perspective- would be something based on PalmOS 6. Being something closer to a "real OS" finally, it should serve as an adequate platform for InkWell. Lots of whacky Apple customizations and extensions, taking it even past the kind of stuff Sony has done.
It really is a damn shame about InkWell. Almost no one uses it- but that's little surprise. You have to have a tablet. I don't even think I can get at the API without having a tablet plugged in.
I concurr. PocketPCs are actually very powerful- more useful for running Unix ports than the Zaurus ever was for me. :) A real multitasking OS.
Although, I'll never buy a 240x320 device, not these days. PPC makers should really get with the times- the Toshiba e800 being the one exception. But at least 320x480- come on guys!
And yes, that "smart minimize" (ha!) button is one of the worst things I've seen in *any* UI. But, it's easily fixable in a transparent way. I used to use Magic Button on a PPC 2k2 device- makes that close button actually close the app. The app doesn't change anything else about the way your system looks or works, it only does two things- makes sure that every app has a close button (some don't, you have to use the menu to exit, or worse, another tool!) and that when you tap the X it quits the app entirely.
I'm not saying that Missing Sync isn't nice- from what I've read, it's a really nice package. I just recently got a Clie NX70V- my first PalmOS device, and a damn nice one at that- but don't think I'll spring for Mark/Space. I've just stuck to downloading PRC+PDBs to the Memory Stick and coping it from there if I need it internally, and the occasional sync at work on the Windows machine there.
But the iTunes syncing looks sweet, I must admit. That'd be handy to have. But then again, not much different from just dragging the album I want to listen to onto the MS using the MSImport app- shows the Clie's memory stick as a drive on Windows.
Umm...
Just as much as Windows users must be used to it. There is the every 18 month $250 OS update.
As a Mac user, I don't use almost any commercial software. I'm certainly not "used to" paying for updates I don't want or need. Get over it, man.
There's been no indication from Apple or Mark/Space that they might be bought out. Don't get me wrong- it's a nice wish, one which I can heartily join in on. But I certainly wouldn't count on it, nor would I hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
Yeah, it is kind of a weird res. Wide VGA (WVGA) I think it's called. The device is the Sigmarion III, a device currently only for sale in Japan. I got mine through conics.net, but like the Zaurus models, you can get it through a number of importers. A real english ROM is on the way, although I've not had a problem- the english apps I run work fine on the device. It's a great device. I use it for web browsing, development (not just *writing* code- the whole process all on the siggy), email via ssh, RDP+X11+VNC, etc etc.
There are a couple of other devices that have the same screen that I know of- the NEXiO S160 is the other. Drool-worthy, that machine is... But expensive as hell! $1250 for the NEXiO S160 - sans keyboard, a CPU that's half as fast vs $500 for the Sigmarion III.
Nope, I already sold it.
Indeed, Newton HWR jokes really don't apply to anything past the Newton OS 1.x. In Newton OS 2.0- which is what the MP120/2.0, MP130, MP2x00 and eMate run- the HWR is *very* good. Even on a slower CPU, like the eMate and MP130 use, both of which are in the neighborhood of ARM9s at 25 MHz. The only Newton OS 2.x devices I had used were MP2x00s, but I came into an eMate I intended to sell on eBay which I had to play with for a while first. I was surprised how well the HWR did even on the slow CPU- almost as fast and just as accurate as my 162 MHz MP2100.