I've often thought about this, wondering to myself. Would I be willing to take a one-way trip to Mars, especially with the knowledge that radiation would probably kill me within some amount of years?
I usually decide yes, but only when I'm old, or if my wife died, etc. Something like that. Otherwise, not sure if it's worth the risk for me, though I'm a scientist. But for someone whose science is areology or geology, I could see how they'd be willing to take one for science...
Hrmm. Not really that offtopic. The topic was backlight on iBook computers. Someone said their iBook has no backlight, or that it isn't on and has never worked. It seems a pretty valid and on-topic question to me.
I hadn't heard they were going to make a 7, 8, and 9 either. I've always heard very faint rumorrumblings about it, but never anything remotely concrete.
I think it'd be fun, though it depends on who makes it and what story they're telling. Might be neat to hear the Yuzhaan Vong story in those episodes...
I think one of the problems is that a lot of folks who haven't done any embedded systems programming think that 16 MB is a small amount of RAM. Sure, it is a small amount of RAM on a desktop running Linux or Windows, but on a high-volume embedded system it's a ton. An "embedded" Linux system like the Sharp Zaurus SL-C760 may seem light because it's using 18 MB after the kernel and Qtopia are started up, but in the world of embedded (and PDAs), that is a huge footprint.
I was reading that page, and can't help but wonder- what the hell does "go crazy" mean in context of one of those OSes? When the user fucks up, and the system doesn't work as they wanted it to because they did something wrong? They use the phrase "go crazy" a handful of times.
Real-time, embedded OSes are a world apart from MacOS, Windows, Unix and Linux. You don't use those OSes for most RT applications, but that is good. You should use the right tool for the job.
But even if you took Linux, Mac OS, or Windows 9x/NT and had solid hardware and solid drivers, deleted the services, subsystems, and other components you didn't need (remember that 4 MB Windows 95 install?), you would still end up with an OS that was no where near real-time and still very crashy compared to a real-time system. It'd be more solid than it was before, but still not perfect.
What else would you expect to be listed at LinuxDevices.com?
Most of the "embedded" Linux devices are the bigger, more powerful things like you mention- PDAs, routers, kiosks, etc. Linux couldn't run on a lot of the hardware in a lot of other "embedded" operations without running ELKS or uClinux. For instance- Linux plus the Qtopia GUI on my Zaurus C760 takes up a whopping 18 MB on boot- absolutely gigantic compared to the 2-4 MB of WinCE or something even less on PalmOS.
I too would be interested in finding out about in-use embedded Linux setups, working in 0.5-4 MB of RAM.
Then why not just get one of those dedicated LCD Solitaire machine? Or a used- but small- GameBoy Color?
Illustrates a point I've tried to make over and over again, but always lost on folks that seem to think they are the only ones in the world- different strokes for different folks. Just to play the "occasional" game of Solitaire, paying $200-500 for a fancy PDA when I could buy an original GameBoy for $10 (or a GBC for a little more) and Solitaire and others, or $15 on an card-game-only electronic handheld game.
Why shouldn't a $500 organizer/PDA have multitasking?
I used to BBS a ton. Still did, though a lot less, well into 1999, visiting a few places until 2000 or 2001 very rarely, until the last Citadel 86 BBS I called went down. I never was much into the art scene, but did enjoy downloading the occasional pack to see what cool stuff people did in ANSI...
A good guess. I had disconnect on exit disabled, because I was doing/planning on doing a lot network-requiring stuff.
I ran into some other weirdness with wifi on the Tungsten C, though. After having it for less than a day, and having not installed even *one* hack or app, wifi stopped working. Rather, opening up web browser (or hotsync) or going to config/activate the wifi network would request a wifi login, and lock the machine up. I would have to reboot. This of course made wifi impossible to use, and the machine in general a pain, because a wifi connection was attempted whenever I may have accidentally opened up some apps or prefs, which then locked the machine up. ugh. Doing a hard reset and starting over again from scratch fixed it, though I was always very worried it would come back again. Didn't keep it long enough to find out.
It's all in how you develop it. I seen a number of PocketPC apps that are tiny, similarily tiny as a PalmOS app. But it's not going to be if you statically link a bunch of MFC controls. If you want small, you can write in C against a stripped down API on WinCE just like you can on PalmOS.
Execute-in-place is a cool thing, something that Linux and WinCE really can't do with the way they operate. But not all that important when even PalmOS devices come with 32, 64 and 128 MB of RAM...
I never said that any of the devices I have used were perfect. For me, I'd rather have something functional than something simply small. What good does something small do me if it doesn't solve the problems I throw at it? Not much. I'd rather carry around something larger that can do what I need than something less function, although smaller.
The "known workarounds" you speak of are just to switch to a non-PalmOS machine or wait until PalmOS 6. Fine.
The Palm Pilot never cost $100, unless you're talking refurb; nor did a Newton cost $1000. That isn't to say the Newtons didn't cost a lot, but they were more of a laptop replacement than an expensive dayrunner.
I know a lot can be done with little hardwares. The older Newtons managed to do what current PalmOS models do on pretty small hardware- 20 MHz ARM 610 and 2.5 MB of RAM. Not that much faster than a 16 MHz DragonBall.
I'm glad you like your Palm Pro. No one said you had to get something more powerful or better- if it solves your problems, stick with it. Some of us want and use more. I don't want to have to carry around a laptop, so I'm very glad that enough of us want powerful PDAs, machines that do most of what a laptop would.
I don't remember such a setting. If I left the Web Browser app to grab a URL from Memo, and went back, I'd have to reconnect. No matter if I was out of the Browser for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.
You may rather have your iPod in your pocket, but most folks don't want to carry around a backpack full of devices. My PDA is already in my pocket- if I have a large storage card and a capable CPU, why shouldn't I listen to MP3s?
I do a lot more multitasking than just the MP3 player and IM client. On PalmOS, those were what I ran into more often, but on WindowsCE, NewtonOS or Linux, three real OSes that run on PDAs, I do a lot more multitasking.
No, I don't *need* that. But I don't need a PDA, either. Nor do I need a computer. Nor does your computer need multitasking. Why not just use DOS?
Yes, PalmOS 5.2.x allows a very limited form of multitasking. As far as I know, it is limited to MP3 or other audio players. On these versions of PalmOS, there are two threads allowed- foreground and background. I don't know of any apps other than a couple audio players that use this capability, though I imagine a couple other apps use it.
Sony added similar very limited multitasking to their versions of PalmOS, somewhere in the 4 series. I think they use the POS 5 API now, though.
For it to be used to allow networking apps not to suck, PalmsSource or the licensee would have to rewrite the networking system to use it.
PalmOS is a bitch to code for. People while about Windows, because it isn't some POSIX clone, but they've not done coding for PalmOS. More important, they've not tried to port an app from a real OS like Unix, Windows CE, or Linux to PalmOS. PalmOS is a passable OS when you're dealing with 16 MHz m68k, but on much past that it's a sad excuse for an OS.
I'd be more worried about the current state of instant messaging on PalmOS vis-a-vis the lack of multi-tasking. PalmOS 6 will have some multitasking abilities, but those of us with any current model PalmOS device will be SOL, unless they're willing to buy a new device. I've recieved word for a few Palm employees that there is about a zilch chance of Palm releasing a POS 6 upgrade for *any* of their current models, even the Tungsten T3 or C, the two most powerful models.
I had out a Tungsten C for a (relatively short) while. Why even bother with built-in wifi when it's so crippled by the OS? If I opened up an IRC or IM app, I would be disconnected the second I wanted to do a calculation in EasyCalc or grab out a phone number in Addressbook. Then I'd have to go through the whole routine of reconnecting. Yay! Each time I would leave the Web Browser to get a URL out of a Memo or an email, I would lose the page loaded and have to re-negotiate the wifi-connection, reload the page (or multiple tabs if running NetFront), basically starting over again.
I took the Tungsten C back after a couple weeks. I have a Palm m130 on loan which I like more. It is a lot less powerful and has a smaller and crappier screen compared to the TC, but at least so much isn't going to such blatant waste. Perhaps it is better to use the Palm for what it does decently, and then use my Windows CE device (Sigmarion III- 800x480 screen, touch-typable screen) for the real work of doing development, browsing the web, irc, email via ssh, etc etc.
Anyone who says that PDAs don't need multitasking have never used their PDA for anything but the simplest of tasks. The device for which the term PDA was invented- the original Apple Newton- had multitasking before the first Palm Pilot was concieved, and has been capable of doing more than almost any PalmOS model. Perhaps Palm should have thought of a new acronym to call their device, a PDA lite? Expensive Electronic Organizer?
No, there isn't a port of GAIM to PalmOS. But there are a bunch of other IM clients for PalmOS. This story is pretty stupid, like a lot of so-called tech news story posted at various sites, born of ignorance and perpetuated by folks too lazy to do any research, and analyzed by folks who know nothing about the topic.
Actually, I run Maxima on my PDA. Not used giac, but Maxima works very well. I use it on a WinCE.NET 4.1 handheld PC/palmtop. I have also used it on WinCE 3.0 devices- PocketPC 2000 and 2002 as well as a Jornada 720 running Handheld PC 2000. It is awesome to have a totally powerful mathematics system at my finger tips. A lot nicer to have a keyboard as with my WinCE.NET 4.1 device (mmmm Sigmarion 3- a laptop that fits in my pocket!), a Jornada 720 or any other WinCE device with a builtin keyboard- compared to a PocketPC device.
Hell, even XMaxima on Windows CE, just like running it on a Linux or Windows desktop, though it fits a little better on the PDA. Complete with GNUplot support! Very powerful tool.
I believe you can get Octave to do symbolic too, though not by default. I recall reading something about either a free sym package, or someone copying the sym package from a Matlab installation and using it in Matlab.
Uh, I don't know where you come from, but 2 + 2 actually equals 4. From the "War is peace!" I'm guessing you meant to say 2 + 2 = 5, both of which are from 1984.
Yeah. I've not known of a place that won't allow a return for the same item on an opened DVD or CD, though it is very common to not accept a return for a full-on refund or even store credit. But anywhere will allow you to bring it back for a new one.
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I've often thought about this, wondering to myself. Would I be willing to take a one-way trip to Mars, especially with the knowledge that radiation would probably kill me within some amount of years?
I usually decide yes, but only when I'm old, or if my wife died, etc. Something like that. Otherwise, not sure if it's worth the risk for me, though I'm a scientist. But for someone whose science is areology or geology, I could see how they'd be willing to take one for science...
Hrmm. Not really that offtopic. The topic was backlight on iBook computers. Someone said their iBook has no backlight, or that it isn't on and has never worked. It seems a pretty valid and on-topic question to me.
Uhh... they already made Episode 6. Did you mean 7, 8, 9?
I hadn't heard they were going to make a 7, 8, and 9 either. I've always heard very faint rumorrumblings about it, but never anything remotely concrete.
I think it'd be fun, though it depends on who makes it and what story they're telling. Might be neat to hear the Yuzhaan Vong story in those episodes...
What do you mean it doesn't have a backlight? Has it never worked? Do you not use the machine's built-in display, using external VGA or something?
I think one of the problems is that a lot of folks who haven't done any embedded systems programming think that 16 MB is a small amount of RAM. Sure, it is a small amount of RAM on a desktop running Linux or Windows, but on a high-volume embedded system it's a ton. An "embedded" Linux system like the Sharp Zaurus SL-C760 may seem light because it's using 18 MB after the kernel and Qtopia are started up, but in the world of embedded (and PDAs), that is a huge footprint.
I was reading that page, and can't help but wonder- what the hell does "go crazy" mean in context of one of those OSes? When the user fucks up, and the system doesn't work as they wanted it to because they did something wrong? They use the phrase "go crazy" a handful of times.
Real-time, embedded OSes are a world apart from MacOS, Windows, Unix and Linux. You don't use those OSes for most RT applications, but that is good. You should use the right tool for the job.
But even if you took Linux, Mac OS, or Windows 9x/NT and had solid hardware and solid drivers, deleted the services, subsystems, and other components you didn't need (remember that 4 MB Windows 95 install?), you would still end up with an OS that was no where near real-time and still very crashy compared to a real-time system. It'd be more solid than it was before, but still not perfect.
What else would you expect to be listed at LinuxDevices.com?
Most of the "embedded" Linux devices are the bigger, more powerful things like you mention- PDAs, routers, kiosks, etc. Linux couldn't run on a lot of the hardware in a lot of other "embedded" operations without running ELKS or uClinux. For instance- Linux plus the Qtopia GUI on my Zaurus C760 takes up a whopping 18 MB on boot- absolutely gigantic compared to the 2-4 MB of WinCE or something even less on PalmOS.
I too would be interested in finding out about in-use embedded Linux setups, working in 0.5-4 MB of RAM.
Then why not just get one of those dedicated LCD Solitaire machine? Or a used- but small- GameBoy Color?
Illustrates a point I've tried to make over and over again, but always lost on folks that seem to think they are the only ones in the world- different strokes for different folks. Just to play the "occasional" game of Solitaire, paying $200-500 for a fancy PDA when I could buy an original GameBoy for $10 (or a GBC for a little more) and Solitaire and others, or $15 on an card-game-only electronic handheld game.
Why shouldn't a $500 organizer/PDA have multitasking?
I used to BBS a ton. Still did, though a lot less, well into 1999, visiting a few places until 2000 or 2001 very rarely, until the last Citadel 86 BBS I called went down. I never was much into the art scene, but did enjoy downloading the occasional pack to see what cool stuff people did in ANSI...
Apple's? Pfft. Who doesn't do that? Every hard drive I've bought in the last 10 years has done that...
A good guess. I had disconnect on exit disabled, because I was doing/planning on doing a lot network-requiring stuff.
I ran into some other weirdness with wifi on the Tungsten C, though. After having it for less than a day, and having not installed even *one* hack or app, wifi stopped working. Rather, opening up web browser (or hotsync) or going to config/activate the wifi network would request a wifi login, and lock the machine up. I would have to reboot. This of course made wifi impossible to use, and the machine in general a pain, because a wifi connection was attempted whenever I may have accidentally opened up some apps or prefs, which then locked the machine up. ugh. Doing a hard reset and starting over again from scratch fixed it, though I was always very worried it would come back again. Didn't keep it long enough to find out.
It's all in how you develop it. I seen a number of PocketPC apps that are tiny, similarily tiny as a PalmOS app. But it's not going to be if you statically link a bunch of MFC controls. If you want small, you can write in C against a stripped down API on WinCE just like you can on PalmOS.
Execute-in-place is a cool thing, something that Linux and WinCE really can't do with the way they operate. But not all that important when even PalmOS devices come with 32, 64 and 128 MB of RAM...
Do you need something electronic for something as simple as keeping track of addresses?
I never said that any of the devices I have used were perfect. For me, I'd rather have something functional than something simply small. What good does something small do me if it doesn't solve the problems I throw at it? Not much. I'd rather carry around something larger that can do what I need than something less function, although smaller.
The "known workarounds" you speak of are just to switch to a non-PalmOS machine or wait until PalmOS 6. Fine.
The Palm Pilot never cost $100, unless you're talking refurb; nor did a Newton cost $1000. That isn't to say the Newtons didn't cost a lot, but they were more of a laptop replacement than an expensive dayrunner.
I know a lot can be done with little hardwares. The older Newtons managed to do what current PalmOS models do on pretty small hardware- 20 MHz ARM 610 and 2.5 MB of RAM. Not that much faster than a 16 MHz DragonBall.
I'm glad you like your Palm Pro. No one said you had to get something more powerful or better- if it solves your problems, stick with it. Some of us want and use more. I don't want to have to carry around a laptop, so I'm very glad that enough of us want powerful PDAs, machines that do most of what a laptop would.
I don't remember such a setting. If I left the Web Browser app to grab a URL from Memo, and went back, I'd have to reconnect. No matter if I was out of the Browser for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.
You may rather have your iPod in your pocket, but most folks don't want to carry around a backpack full of devices. My PDA is already in my pocket- if I have a large storage card and a capable CPU, why shouldn't I listen to MP3s?
I do a lot more multitasking than just the MP3 player and IM client. On PalmOS, those were what I ran into more often, but on WindowsCE, NewtonOS or Linux, three real OSes that run on PDAs, I do a lot more multitasking.
No, I don't *need* that. But I don't need a PDA, either. Nor do I need a computer. Nor does your computer need multitasking. Why not just use DOS?
Yes, PalmOS 5.2.x allows a very limited form of multitasking. As far as I know, it is limited to MP3 or other audio players. On these versions of PalmOS, there are two threads allowed- foreground and background. I don't know of any apps other than a couple audio players that use this capability, though I imagine a couple other apps use it.
Sony added similar very limited multitasking to their versions of PalmOS, somewhere in the 4 series. I think they use the POS 5 API now, though.
For it to be used to allow networking apps not to suck, PalmsSource or the licensee would have to rewrite the networking system to use it.
PalmOS is a bitch to code for. People while about Windows, because it isn't some POSIX clone, but they've not done coding for PalmOS. More important, they've not tried to port an app from a real OS like Unix, Windows CE, or Linux to PalmOS. PalmOS is a passable OS when you're dealing with 16 MHz m68k, but on much past that it's a sad excuse for an OS.
I'd be more worried about the current state of instant messaging on PalmOS vis-a-vis the lack of multi-tasking. PalmOS 6 will have some multitasking abilities, but those of us with any current model PalmOS device will be SOL, unless they're willing to buy a new device. I've recieved word for a few Palm employees that there is about a zilch chance of Palm releasing a POS 6 upgrade for *any* of their current models, even the Tungsten T3 or C, the two most powerful models.
I had out a Tungsten C for a (relatively short) while. Why even bother with built-in wifi when it's so crippled by the OS? If I opened up an IRC or IM app, I would be disconnected the second I wanted to do a calculation in EasyCalc or grab out a phone number in Addressbook. Then I'd have to go through the whole routine of reconnecting. Yay! Each time I would leave the Web Browser to get a URL out of a Memo or an email, I would lose the page loaded and have to re-negotiate the wifi-connection, reload the page (or multiple tabs if running NetFront), basically starting over again.
I took the Tungsten C back after a couple weeks. I have a Palm m130 on loan which I like more. It is a lot less powerful and has a smaller and crappier screen compared to the TC, but at least so much isn't going to such blatant waste. Perhaps it is better to use the Palm for what it does decently, and then use my Windows CE device (Sigmarion III- 800x480 screen, touch-typable screen) for the real work of doing development, browsing the web, irc, email via ssh, etc etc.
Anyone who says that PDAs don't need multitasking have never used their PDA for anything but the simplest of tasks. The device for which the term PDA was invented- the original Apple Newton- had multitasking before the first Palm Pilot was concieved, and has been capable of doing more than almost any PalmOS model. Perhaps Palm should have thought of a new acronym to call their device, a PDA lite? Expensive Electronic Organizer?
No, there isn't a port of GAIM to PalmOS. But there are a bunch of other IM clients for PalmOS. This story is pretty stupid, like a lot of so-called tech news story posted at various sites, born of ignorance and perpetuated by folks too lazy to do any research, and analyzed by folks who know nothing about the topic.
Or, they could just use the really shitty cloth head puppet thing as in the last movie attempt at this film. *shudder>
Actually, I run Maxima on my PDA. Not used giac, but Maxima works very well. I use it on a WinCE.NET 4.1 handheld PC/palmtop. I have also used it on WinCE 3.0 devices- PocketPC 2000 and 2002 as well as a Jornada 720 running Handheld PC 2000. It is awesome to have a totally powerful mathematics system at my finger tips. A lot nicer to have a keyboard as with my WinCE.NET 4.1 device (mmmm Sigmarion 3- a laptop that fits in my pocket!), a Jornada 720 or any other WinCE device with a builtin keyboard- compared to a PocketPC device.
Hell, even XMaxima on Windows CE, just like running it on a Linux or Windows desktop, though it fits a little better on the PDA. Complete with GNUplot support! Very powerful tool.
Maxima is symbolic.
I believe you can get Octave to do symbolic too, though not by default. I recall reading something about either a free sym package, or someone copying the sym package from a Matlab installation and using it in Matlab.
Got a judge to OK it? Not really needed anymore, with the PATRIOT and PATRIOT II acts.
They snuck the second PATRIOT act when they caught Hussein. Sneaky, that. Who needs a judge for phone taps, financial records, etc? Maybe in Canada!
Uh, I don't know where you come from, but 2 + 2 actually equals 4. From the "War is peace!" I'm guessing you meant to say 2 + 2 = 5, both of which are from 1984.
Yeah. I've not known of a place that won't allow a return for the same item on an opened DVD or CD, though it is very common to not accept a return for a full-on refund or even store credit. But anywhere will allow you to bring it back for a new one.