The money in a fiat currency system ultimately comes from production. What happens when you take a whole lot of humans out of the production loop? The money is still there. UBI suggests that everybody should get some, instead of just the people who built the robots.
Since I can't edit, I'll add it here: that UBI is problematically inflationary has not been established. Accepting it on a theoretical basis only works for a naive approach to the topic. There are several confounding factors; the greatly increased overall productivity of society through automation, the fact that most people want to use part of their life to make other peoples' lives better, the fact that people whose basic needs are met can spend whatever extra cash they do get on frivolities. All of these contribute to an understanding of UBI as recycling income, rather than creating it.
As somebody who has both worked at McDonald's and had real jobs and been on disability, I can tell you that while I'd really love to be able to keep a real job in the long term, I will absolutely take a meager living for nothing over making slightly more to work some entry-level unskilled horseshit. No human being should have to do that kind of thing just to buy food.
You would be part of the "people" getting something for nothing. You, and all the thousands of others like you, who all say the same shit. All you people who hate UBI would be getting UBI. It very easily does much more good for you than it does the people who actually need it to stay alive. People like you, who enjoy doing things, would have an ample safety net to try to make your own businesses, pursue higher education, or just take the vacation you know damn well you've earned ten times over that your employer constantly dicks you out of. You could have that, but you don't want it, because some people who don't have jobs would use it to buy a pot to piss in. Please try to convince me this isn't total jerk bullshit.
Yeah, I'm on top of shit. I haven't actually received a letter alleging overpayment yet, so step one of this dumbass process hasn't even fired off. I'm just, you know, a bit peeved that my attempts to report my earnings have all apparently fallen behind somebody's desk.
How the hell is the idea as old as society itself when we didn't even have printed circuit boards until the turn of the last century?
People who believe that we will always need people to work really need to get a fuller understanding of the history of labor. Will there always be some people who need to do something? Probably. However, the proportion of people doing the hardest work will shrink, drastically. That's how things have always worked, and it's the root of your argument. We need almost nobody to be a farmer, so we invented a million new jobs.
The thing about general automation is that we're coming close to a point where thinking is the job. If we can automate that, and we're already starting to, then automating jobs where you don't need to think, which is most of them, will be a breeze. The only obstacle to it this very moment is how expensive a good robot is. If their cost drops below what workers demand, that job is dead to human hands.
Humanity will always serve a purpose. How could we not? We impose purpose upon existence itself, that's what we do. When what is considered "work" that human beings are needed for is so different from what it is now that it is no longer demeaning, unhealthy, or necessary to keep a roof over your head, this argument will be pointless.
UBI is an increasingly reasonable option because we live in an increasingly automated world. By 2030 at the latest, around 90% of people will be completely useless compared to a robot. We can either let them starve and make some of the robots into "riot control" units, or we can feed them and let them smoke weed, play videogames, take up woodcarving, fuck, learn geometry, or whatever other kind of shit they like.
No, the homeless people definitely need to get moving. I just need to figure out who the actual architect of this huge scam was and send them that way instead.
You need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I'm not complaining about getting the money. I'm complaining about the structure of the program disincentivizing me doing the amount of work that I can. I want to work. Until very recently, I've been afraid to, because if I were unable to keep the job for whatever reason, it would cause catastrophic hardship for me for at least several months afterward. A few months ago, I ran into troubles that left me with no choice in the matter, and as a direct result I am facing imminent catastrophic hardship due to bureaucratic error.
Can you get this through your skull? I want to be useful. I want to be closer to self-sufficiency, and to pay back into the system which has graciously allowed me to live in frightening poverty for the past decade, because I genuinely do see how good that is compared to not eating or sleeping inside. The problem is that the way the program works is completely idiotic, seemingly designed to keep people with problems exactly where they are. I haven't been avoiding work because it's hard, I've been avoiding it because it's not worth the risk. That risk is now manifesting itself before me, even worse than I predicted. This system is shit.
Oh what the fuck. That's exactly the "deal" I get from being on disability. Spoiler alert: until just a few months ago, I never even tried to work for more than decade because that system is such garbage. And now that I am working, the SSA isn't accepting my attempts to report that income, so I'm scared I'm going to have my whole ass stolen from me.
If it was actually a basic income you would be getting it, too. The point of UBI is to bring equality of opportunity. $20k a year is a meager living, but it's good enough that you can take some risks with it and actually try to do the entrepreneurial dream we're all told about.
What you did is not a basic income. It's a garden-variety welfare program, with all the stupid overhead that comes with it, that you called a basic income. This way you can point to this bad joke and use it to discredit anyone actually advocating a basic income. You are deceitful garbage and I hope one day a mob of homeless push you into the sea.
I was involved with Gamergate back when it was actually a thing; people who complain of it doing anything for the past two years are essentially jumping at shadows. There are far more than enough of "us" than would ever need to falsify anything to be heard. "We" also don't really do anything about it these days except get mad on Twitter. The shitty old games journalism sites we hate are all hanging by a thread at this point, so mission accomplished.
The PC obsessed devs who still complain about GG have always also complained about the industry; apparently even though there are alot of women working on games to be able to complain about it, there is still significant cause for complaint. Maybe they're actually not full of shit about their work environment. In fact, they should probably look closer at that than their putative customer base. People who are concerned with these sorts of issues tend overwhelmingly to love a good backstab more than anything else. It wouldn't be unprecedented for one of them to try to resolve some nasty office politics by putting on this boogeyman's mask.
Now we can permanently get rid of Chinese trading bots, who shit up every game with an economy by offering illicit real money transactions in it, by putting a bunch of games about Tianenman Square on Steam.
Slashdot Mirror
I knew that was the point
it was also my point
really confused about how people got confused about this
Properly managed fiat currency is based on production. When you can produce more with less people, then what?
The money in a fiat currency system ultimately comes from production. What happens when you take a whole lot of humans out of the production loop? The money is still there. UBI suggests that everybody should get some, instead of just the people who built the robots.
Since I can't edit, I'll add it here: that UBI is problematically inflationary has not been established. Accepting it on a theoretical basis only works for a naive approach to the topic. There are several confounding factors; the greatly increased overall productivity of society through automation, the fact that most people want to use part of their life to make other peoples' lives better, the fact that people whose basic needs are met can spend whatever extra cash they do get on frivolities. All of these contribute to an understanding of UBI as recycling income, rather than creating it.
As somebody who has both worked at McDonald's and had real jobs and been on disability, I can tell you that while I'd really love to be able to keep a real job in the long term, I will absolutely take a meager living for nothing over making slightly more to work some entry-level unskilled horseshit. No human being should have to do that kind of thing just to buy food.
You would be part of the "people" getting something for nothing. You, and all the thousands of others like you, who all say the same shit. All you people who hate UBI would be getting UBI. It very easily does much more good for you than it does the people who actually need it to stay alive. People like you, who enjoy doing things, would have an ample safety net to try to make your own businesses, pursue higher education, or just take the vacation you know damn well you've earned ten times over that your employer constantly dicks you out of. You could have that, but you don't want it, because some people who don't have jobs would use it to buy a pot to piss in. Please try to convince me this isn't total jerk bullshit.
Yeah, I'm on top of shit. I haven't actually received a letter alleging overpayment yet, so step one of this dumbass process hasn't even fired off. I'm just, you know, a bit peeved that my attempts to report my earnings have all apparently fallen behind somebody's desk.
If it's UBI, there is no reason to get off it ever because it's UNIVERSAL.
How the hell is the idea as old as society itself when we didn't even have printed circuit boards until the turn of the last century?
People who believe that we will always need people to work really need to get a fuller understanding of the history of labor. Will there always be some people who need to do something? Probably. However, the proportion of people doing the hardest work will shrink, drastically. That's how things have always worked, and it's the root of your argument. We need almost nobody to be a farmer, so we invented a million new jobs.
The thing about general automation is that we're coming close to a point where thinking is the job. If we can automate that, and we're already starting to, then automating jobs where you don't need to think, which is most of them, will be a breeze. The only obstacle to it this very moment is how expensive a good robot is. If their cost drops below what workers demand, that job is dead to human hands.
Humanity will always serve a purpose. How could we not? We impose purpose upon existence itself, that's what we do. When what is considered "work" that human beings are needed for is so different from what it is now that it is no longer demeaning, unhealthy, or necessary to keep a roof over your head, this argument will be pointless.
UBI is an increasingly reasonable option because we live in an increasingly automated world. By 2030 at the latest, around 90% of people will be completely useless compared to a robot. We can either let them starve and make some of the robots into "riot control" units, or we can feed them and let them smoke weed, play videogames, take up woodcarving, fuck, learn geometry, or whatever other kind of shit they like.
No, the homeless people definitely need to get moving. I just need to figure out who the actual architect of this huge scam was and send them that way instead.
You don't need to convince me, I'm a UBI advocate. What I've been pissed off about is that this bullshit in Ontario isn't UBI.
That isn't how UBI is supposed to work. This "pilot program" fucked it up on purpose by making it needs-based.
You need to work on your reading comprehension, dude. I'm not complaining about getting the money. I'm complaining about the structure of the program disincentivizing me doing the amount of work that I can. I want to work. Until very recently, I've been afraid to, because if I were unable to keep the job for whatever reason, it would cause catastrophic hardship for me for at least several months afterward. A few months ago, I ran into troubles that left me with no choice in the matter, and as a direct result I am facing imminent catastrophic hardship due to bureaucratic error.
Can you get this through your skull? I want to be useful. I want to be closer to self-sufficiency, and to pay back into the system which has graciously allowed me to live in frightening poverty for the past decade, because I genuinely do see how good that is compared to not eating or sleeping inside. The problem is that the way the program works is completely idiotic, seemingly designed to keep people with problems exactly where they are. I haven't been avoiding work because it's hard, I've been avoiding it because it's not worth the risk. That risk is now manifesting itself before me, even worse than I predicted. This system is shit.
Hey, I got voted down by a partisan hack! Nice.
Oh what the fuck. That's exactly the "deal" I get from being on disability. Spoiler alert: until just a few months ago, I never even tried to work for more than decade because that system is such garbage. And now that I am working, the SSA isn't accepting my attempts to report that income, so I'm scared I'm going to have my whole ass stolen from me.
If it was actually a basic income you would be getting it, too. The point of UBI is to bring equality of opportunity. $20k a year is a meager living, but it's good enough that you can take some risks with it and actually try to do the entrepreneurial dream we're all told about.
What you did is not a basic income. It's a garden-variety welfare program, with all the stupid overhead that comes with it, that you called a basic income. This way you can point to this bad joke and use it to discredit anyone actually advocating a basic income. You are deceitful garbage and I hope one day a mob of homeless push you into the sea.
You may as well ask me why I dumped my last girlfriend.
And that's good. Because it's a fucking map. Some things shouldn't be drum circles.
I am assailed by yet more humorless chuds. This isn't fucking offtopic. You would only think that if you have no idea what "mojibake" means. Piss off.
Could the humorless chud that voted me down please explain yourself?
n/t
I was involved with Gamergate back when it was actually a thing; people who complain of it doing anything for the past two years are essentially jumping at shadows. There are far more than enough of "us" than would ever need to falsify anything to be heard. "We" also don't really do anything about it these days except get mad on Twitter. The shitty old games journalism sites we hate are all hanging by a thread at this point, so mission accomplished.
The PC obsessed devs who still complain about GG have always also complained about the industry; apparently even though there are alot of women working on games to be able to complain about it, there is still significant cause for complaint. Maybe they're actually not full of shit about their work environment. In fact, they should probably look closer at that than their putative customer base. People who are concerned with these sorts of issues tend overwhelmingly to love a good backstab more than anything else. It wouldn't be unprecedented for one of them to try to resolve some nasty office politics by putting on this boogeyman's mask.
Now we can permanently get rid of Chinese trading bots, who shit up every game with an economy by offering illicit real money transactions in it, by putting a bunch of games about Tianenman Square on Steam.