Occupy Wall Street Movement wants Americans to make $20/hour (whether they work or not), so providing tech support for a $35 device at over $20/hour would be a neat trick.
AFAIC if he paid $300.18 in income taxes he got majorly screwed. After all, 50% of population isn't paying federal income taxes, how unlucky is the guy to get into the wrong half of the population?
they're trying to fix something that really doesn't need fixing
- orly?
How do you know WHAT they are trying to fix exactly? Just because the text of the bill says something or other about bullying, doesn't mean that's the INTENTION of the bill.
After all, everything that gov't does can only be understood if you consider the behavior modification of individuals and the usefulness of that bill in court to judge unrelated cases.
No, I presume they are trying to fix something that in their heads is a problem - your freedom of speech.
The SS and Medicare obligations that are in bonds, about 30% of all mortgages in USA that were 'guaranteed' by FHA, Freddie/Fannie and that were bought out as derivatives (most of this is garbage, once they mark it to market, it's probably not worth more than 25% of what they want for it). This is on Treasury books. I am not even talking about things that nobody knows about, which can't be talked about, which require a complete Fed review.
But just the social obligations and the mortgages are over 100 Trillion by themselves.
Except it's you, who are full of shit. Before industry figured out how to transport large amounts of food refrigerated and built refrigerated ships and train cars, before it figured out how to use the pasteurization process and dehydration and canning and vacuum packing nothing could be DONE about safety more than they knew - sugars, salts, spices. Without industrial involvement the people would be dying today left right and center regardless of all of your favorite gov't regulations, which can do jack shit without private industry inventing and using everything that it did. So you can apply all of your colorful epithets right back at yourself, since I don't even give a shit.
The point is that US, as a collective, owes hundreds of trillions in various debts that need to be written off/restructured somehow.
Iceland did the right thing, let the bond holders take a haircut, restructured debt, it's getting better now. Greece and Europe are doing the wrong thing, will likely 'bail' entire countries out, put them into IMF slavery, will destroy their standard of living, it'll be horrible for the Greeks (and eventually the Portuguese and likely some other people.) But it also will be bad for Germans and Swiss - who'll have to pay for this with lower purchasing power and higher taxes.
Over 2 years ago I was in a train from Belgium to Germany, talked to a couple of guys, they were 'government workers'. Asked them: when is Germany getting out of Euro and back to DM? They said: no way, it's better to pay than to fight.
That was what government workers said. Today half of German population believes Germany needs to get out of Euro and back into DM.
There is no other currency today that is worth being a 'reserve' and there is no such thing as 'reserve' currency anyway. Whoever 'owns' it, will abuse that power and destroy it, like USA is doing.
It must be gold. Nobody can abuse it this way.
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The point is that USA needs a major restructuring - huge chunk of gov't must be cut, I'd cut 90% across the board, and would shut down all departments and would repeal all business regulations, shut down IRS, CIA, FBI, etc., repeal income taxes, stop all wars and bring all troops home. Stop all subsidies to everybody, companies, people, whatever. Revoke all 'franchise' statuses, no more gov't monopolies.
This is the only way to fix the incoming problem. It will not be done. People can't handle the truth that they are in a mouse trap they got into by themselves and that the cheese is a lie.
Food became safe as efficiencies in production and storage kicked in, due to economy of scale, not for any gov't related reasons. Gov't can surely collect its license fees, but it can't make the food any safer, on the other hand refrigeration and packaging with vacuum etc. can.
You know, they sold worthless Internet company stocks in 90s for a long time as well, they sold mortgages and inflated housing bubbles for a long time as well.
They've been printing lots of fiat since 1913, but especially since the fifties. It takes a while for a problem to rump up. The fall is not going to take a long time, it's going to be dramatic and quick. It takes nothing at all to cross the edge - here USD is still worth 1% of its 1913 value. Here it crosses that boundary of the last percent and nobody wants it anymore.
It's not going to happen right now. Right now, once the DOW 10,000 rubicon is passed, Bernanke will come out with something. Maybe 3-5 Trillion QE3? If not, then he'll have to do TARP2 soon after (TWIST put the previously failed/bailed out banks in the red).
I don't know if it's this year (likely not) or next year (more likely) or the year after (very likely) that USD will become trash, but unless they actually stop and reverse course, it will become trash. Do you think if they follow the same thought process as you (that it's being going on for a long time, can't hurt now), that it won't happen within the next 1-2 years? Hmm. I think it will.
You are standing there, there is another person with a gun to your head. Your choices are these: you give him everything he wants (and he wants your money and your virginity) or you die.
While people will say: those are 'marginal' taxes, well you know what, with the inflation being what it is, many of the people who actually are in any position to create jobs are paying most of their income taxes in their marginal rate. 35% federal, x% state (depends where you are, can be 0 for Texas, can be 7% for some other places, Illinois, Connecticut come to mind). SS and Medicare, one is 12% on first hundred K, but the other is 3% on the ENTIRE earning. Why should somebody even pay SS or Medicare if they can just afford the fucking treatment and pension out of pocket? Of-course it's because it's a giant ponzi scheme that had to have more heroin shot into it and benefits cut.
If you pay yourself dividends, (like Buffet), then your income tax is your corporate tax (whatever he pays, but it's 35%), and then 15% dividend on top of that, so that's 44.5%.
Germany only wants 40% total even for top hedge fund managers. Norway wants maybe 42-43%. As to USA there are also all these other taxes that don't even exit in many other places, like property taxes. There are still hidden excise and import and sales and fuel and municipal taxes, there are all sorts of user fees on different gov't levels, licenses, etc.
USA is heavily taxed, much more than most countries. In Canada corporate taxes are around 20%, so there are many people with their own 'corporations' for obvious reasons. USA - land of the free, where people ran to, to escape the terrible 'high' tax of King Roger. A 3% tax. Ha. The serfs had to pay 25% of their income to their masters. HA.
When you have conversations with Americans today, you'd think the best things in life are taxes. Well, that's because 50% of them don't actually pay income taxes. There are all other types of taxes as well, but income taxes? 50% don't pay them.
Anyway, the point is that people shouldn't HAVE to pay ANY income taxes. They should FIGHT for their RIGHT NOT to pay that.
Or do they want to remain slaves of the system? Well, the top richest people in USA are using the middle, who pay most of the taxes to be used as scape goats, so the bottom, who benefit from the taxes that the middle pays, will direct their anger at those people. Class warfare 101.
There is no private entity that is powerful enough to stand there with a gun to everybody's head except for government, to extort money and enforce its will. Nobody CHOOSES to have that.
What Americans need is a jobs - productive jobs to reduce that trade deficit and to start paying off some of that debt and to rebuild savings and to re-invest.
Agree 100%.
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This will not happen. Look at the market - it's falling. Look a the Fed - it's printing. Look at the government - it's spending. Until the Fed stops printing and government stops spending there will be no jobs in USA, that's because any gov't spending mis-allocates resources that otherwise would go into private investment savings and spending, which is where it needs to be. Also all the money that gov't receives is the money that allows gov't to operate and to prevent businesses from wanting to hire and to do anything in the country.
You can't force an employer to pay for your union striking without government standing there with a gun.
My point is that a private union is fine, as long as there is no government protections for that, because that's just gov't getting in between private party dealings.
I am obviously as anti-union as it gets. I cheered WalMart closing a couple of stores in Canada, when unions organized there. Good for them. I'd do the same thing if I was in that position. But my point is that private people should be able to organize into whatever they want. But if I employ them and they try to force me into something just because they organized into a private union, I shouldn't be forced by gov't to keep them working for me. I'd fire them all in a heartbeat and get other people.
The 19th century. The time they invented the sewing machine, made a useful steam engine, refrigeration and using large refrigerators to move food around in train cars, the rail road was used everywhere (which was destroyed by public road projects, prolonging the depression). The car, the airplane, the electrical light bulb, the phonograph, the telegraph, the telephone, the bicycle, the radio, metal ships, indoor plumbing, electrical motors, food, which became safe due to improved efficiencies of the market, having people work for limited days in a week and hours in a day (see Henry Ford), while getting paid enough for a man to support a family, with a stay at home wife, some kids, all private health care and insurance and education. The cheap clothing, cheap food, cheap energy. Yes, it must have been awful, the transition from agricultural economy to industrial, even with all the faults, but increase of the efficiencies due to capital, which paid for the tools.
The time that made it possible for children to stay home, not due to any regulations, but because one man became efficient enough (due to all of the capital), to provide for a family with a bunch of kids. Yes, there were problems, obviously many problems. No, you can't have a transition without many problems. Yes, it was a much more important time in history in terms of wealth creation than anything past it so far.
I agree. History is much more than last 10-20 years. So for example when people compare US of today to US of the past in terms of economics, they like to look at the time, that was unusual in terms of the global conditions (like post war times, when other productive nations were destroyed).
A much better time to compare to is time when USA had real growth in economy past the Civil war and before destruction of free market (1913 - Federal reserve and income taxes, which became the instrument of government growth and destruction). 0% income taxes. Prices going down. Real innovation, inventions, real growth of economic wealth due to real growth of production, shift from being a debtor to being largest creditor nation, producer of cheap, high quality consumer goods.
I guess Germans and Japanese really are a master races then, doing better than Americans even with more government. Because, after all, you asserting that they would do even better with less government is all that's needed prove it.
- I am going to abstain from 'master-race' comments.
Yes, but you see, that's the genius of strong government: government is worse than private industry at everything, so it logically follows that it's worse than Wall Street at destroying economy too.
- USA has the strongest government regulations and highest taxes of them all. USA's only export is fiat currency, which is why it is in the predicament that it is at this point (well, some weapons, some entertainment and certain food products, but mostly USD and debt.)
USA is not 'suffering' from from too much private business, it has very little productive business left that is private, it's easy to see with the 53Billion USD/month trade deficit.
The outsourcing is a good thing in this case, it saves the ability of certain businesses to produce without paying the artificially high costs imposed by US gov't regulations and taxation and subsidies to monopolies. It's good that they can run away from that failing system, some of their products are going to be used across the world, regardless of US failing economy.
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Occupy Wall Street Movement wants Americans to make $20/hour (whether they work or not), so providing tech support for a $35 device at over $20/hour would be a neat trick.
AFAIC if he paid $300.18 in income taxes he got majorly screwed. After all, 50% of population isn't paying federal income taxes, how unlucky is the guy to get into the wrong half of the population?
yes, and the collective right to bear arms only means that you can legally own upper or hinder arms of a bear.
they're trying to fix something that really doesn't need fixing
- orly?
How do you know WHAT they are trying to fix exactly? Just because the text of the bill says something or other about bullying, doesn't mean that's the INTENTION of the bill.
After all, everything that gov't does can only be understood if you consider the behavior modification of individuals and the usefulness of that bill in court to judge unrelated cases.
No, I presume they are trying to fix something that in their heads is a problem - your freedom of speech.
well, I am sure he'll be unpleasantly surprised to find out some people think he is a coat.
I always say: 19 century and before 1913. The important thing is after 1800 and before 1913.
I wanted to say 'licked' but the better, non-greedy part of me left it out to somebody else.
By the way - you won't have to chew the thing, it's pre-chewed.
Hundreds of trillions.
The SS and Medicare obligations that are in bonds, about 30% of all mortgages in USA that were 'guaranteed' by FHA, Freddie/Fannie and that were bought out as derivatives (most of this is garbage, once they mark it to market, it's probably not worth more than 25% of what they want for it). This is on Treasury books. I am not even talking about things that nobody knows about, which can't be talked about, which require a complete Fed review.
But just the social obligations and the mortgages are over 100 Trillion by themselves.
Except it's you, who are full of shit. Before industry figured out how to transport large amounts of food refrigerated and built refrigerated ships and train cars, before it figured out how to use the pasteurization process and dehydration and canning and vacuum packing nothing could be DONE about safety more than they knew - sugars, salts, spices. Without industrial involvement the people would be dying today left right and center regardless of all of your favorite gov't regulations, which can do jack shit without private industry inventing and using everything that it did. So you can apply all of your colorful epithets right back at yourself, since I don't even give a shit.
As I said, I didn't stay and other people left as well. There is no reason to stay for that kind of 'market'.
Nope. All that's needed is upholding criminal and contract law.
Micromanaging business shouldn't be one of government's authorizations, it's impossible in every way, including cost and corruption.
The point is that US, as a collective, owes hundreds of trillions in various debts that need to be written off/restructured somehow.
Iceland did the right thing, let the bond holders take a haircut, restructured debt, it's getting better now. Greece and Europe are doing the wrong thing, will likely 'bail' entire countries out, put them into IMF slavery, will destroy their standard of living, it'll be horrible for the Greeks (and eventually the Portuguese and likely some other people.) But it also will be bad for Germans and Swiss - who'll have to pay for this with lower purchasing power and higher taxes.
Over 2 years ago I was in a train from Belgium to Germany, talked to a couple of guys, they were 'government workers'. Asked them: when is Germany getting out of Euro and back to DM? They said: no way, it's better to pay than to fight.
That was what government workers said. Today half of German population believes Germany needs to get out of Euro and back into DM.
There is no other currency today that is worth being a 'reserve' and there is no such thing as 'reserve' currency anyway. Whoever 'owns' it, will abuse that power and destroy it, like USA is doing.
It must be gold. Nobody can abuse it this way.
-
The point is that USA needs a major restructuring - huge chunk of gov't must be cut, I'd cut 90% across the board, and would shut down all departments and would repeal all business regulations, shut down IRS, CIA, FBI, etc., repeal income taxes, stop all wars and bring all troops home. Stop all subsidies to everybody, companies, people, whatever. Revoke all 'franchise' statuses, no more gov't monopolies.
This is the only way to fix the incoming problem.
It will not be done. People can't handle the truth that they are in a mouse trap they got into by themselves and that the cheese is a lie.
Food became safe as efficiencies in production and storage kicked in, due to economy of scale, not for any gov't related reasons. Gov't can surely collect its license fees, but it can't make the food any safer, on the other hand refrigeration and packaging with vacuum etc. can.
That's not market participation. That's a take-over. To me personally it matters only tangentially, as I am dealing in a much freer society than USA.
What USA people now have on their hands is a dictatorship if that's the way they allowed their gov't to 'participate'.
Bubbles, it's all about inflating bubbles.
You know, they sold worthless Internet company stocks in 90s for a long time as well, they sold mortgages and inflated housing bubbles for a long time as well.
They've been printing lots of fiat since 1913, but especially since the fifties. It takes a while for a problem to rump up. The fall is not going to take a long time, it's going to be dramatic and quick. It takes nothing at all to cross the edge - here USD is still worth 1% of its 1913 value. Here it crosses that boundary of the last percent and nobody wants it anymore.
It's not going to happen right now. Right now, once the DOW 10,000 rubicon is passed, Bernanke will come out with something. Maybe 3-5 Trillion QE3? If not, then he'll have to do TARP2 soon after (TWIST put the previously failed/bailed out banks in the red).
I don't know if it's this year (likely not) or next year (more likely) or the year after (very likely) that USD will become trash, but unless they actually stop and reverse course, it will become trash. Do you think if they follow the same thought process as you (that it's being going on for a long time, can't hurt now), that it won't happen within the next 1-2 years? Hmm. I think it will.
WTF?
Here, let me give you an example.
You are standing there, there is another person with a gun to your head. Your choices are these: you give him everything he wants (and he wants your money and your virginity) or you die.
Government 'market' at work.
Who gives a shit where something was invented precisely, if it was made CHEAP and USEFUL and MARKETABLE and it was SOLD by a US company?
Whoever you are - you don't have a fucking idea about what production actually means.
US has HIGHER taxes than Norway and Germany.
While people will say: those are 'marginal' taxes, well you know what, with the inflation being what it is, many of the people who actually are in any position to create jobs are paying most of their income taxes in their marginal rate. 35% federal, x% state (depends where you are, can be 0 for Texas, can be 7% for some other places, Illinois, Connecticut come to mind). SS and Medicare, one is 12% on first hundred K, but the other is 3% on the ENTIRE earning. Why should somebody even pay SS or Medicare if they can just afford the fucking treatment and pension out of pocket? Of-course it's because it's a giant ponzi scheme that had to have more heroin shot into it and benefits cut.
If you pay yourself dividends, (like Buffet), then your income tax is your corporate tax (whatever he pays, but it's 35%), and then 15% dividend on top of that, so that's 44.5%.
Germany only wants 40% total even for top hedge fund managers. Norway wants maybe 42-43%. As to USA there are also all these other taxes that don't even exit in many other places, like property taxes. There are still hidden excise and import and sales and fuel and municipal taxes, there are all sorts of user fees on different gov't levels, licenses, etc.
USA is heavily taxed, much more than most countries. In Canada corporate taxes are around 20%, so there are many people with their own 'corporations' for obvious reasons. USA - land of the free, where people ran to, to escape the terrible 'high' tax of King Roger. A 3% tax. Ha. The serfs had to pay 25% of their income to their masters. HA.
When you have conversations with Americans today, you'd think the best things in life are taxes. Well, that's because 50% of them don't actually pay income taxes. There are all other types of taxes as well, but income taxes? 50% don't pay them.
Anyway, the point is that people shouldn't HAVE to pay ANY income taxes. They should FIGHT for their RIGHT NOT to pay that.
Or do they want to remain slaves of the system? Well, the top richest people in USA are using the middle, who pay most of the taxes to be used as scape goats, so the bottom, who benefit from the taxes that the middle pays, will direct their anger at those people. Class warfare 101.
You are missing the point.
There is no private entity that is powerful enough to stand there with a gun to everybody's head except for government, to extort money and enforce its will. Nobody CHOOSES to have that.
I am in a violent AGREEMENT with your point.
Completely agree.
No disagreement.
What Americans need is a jobs - productive jobs to reduce that trade deficit and to start paying off some of that debt and to rebuild savings and to re-invest.
Agree 100%.
---
This will not happen. Look at the market - it's falling. Look a the Fed - it's printing. Look at the government - it's spending. Until the Fed stops printing and government stops spending there will be no jobs in USA, that's because any gov't spending mis-allocates resources that otherwise would go into private investment savings and spending, which is where it needs to be. Also all the money that gov't receives is the money that allows gov't to operate and to prevent businesses from wanting to hire and to do anything in the country.
You can't force an employer to pay for your union striking without government standing there with a gun.
My point is that a private union is fine, as long as there is no government protections for that, because that's just gov't getting in between private party dealings.
I am obviously as anti-union as it gets. I cheered WalMart closing a couple of stores in Canada, when unions organized there. Good for them. I'd do the same thing if I was in that position. But my point is that private people should be able to organize into whatever they want. But if I employ them and they try to force me into something just because they organized into a private union, I shouldn't be forced by gov't to keep them working for me. I'd fire them all in a heartbeat and get other people.
New definition of iMac - for a high price of 50 bucks you can have all you can eat one iMac Sandwich. Personally designed and tasted by Steve Jobs.
The 19th century. The time they invented the sewing machine, made a useful steam engine, refrigeration and using large refrigerators to move food around in train cars, the rail road was used everywhere (which was destroyed by public road projects, prolonging the depression). The car, the airplane, the electrical light bulb, the phonograph, the telegraph, the telephone, the bicycle, the radio, metal ships, indoor plumbing, electrical motors, food, which became safe due to improved efficiencies of the market, having people work for limited days in a week and hours in a day (see Henry Ford), while getting paid enough for a man to support a family, with a stay at home wife, some kids, all private health care and insurance and education. The cheap clothing, cheap food, cheap energy. Yes, it must have been awful, the transition from agricultural economy to industrial, even with all the faults, but increase of the efficiencies due to capital, which paid for the tools.
The time that made it possible for children to stay home, not due to any regulations, but because one man became efficient enough (due to all of the capital), to provide for a family with a bunch of kids. Yes, there were problems, obviously many problems. No, you can't have a transition without many problems. Yes, it was a much more important time in history in terms of wealth creation than anything past it so far.
I agree. History is much more than last 10-20 years. So for example when people compare US of today to US of the past in terms of economics, they like to look at the time, that was unusual in terms of the global conditions (like post war times, when other productive nations were destroyed).
A much better time to compare to is time when USA had real growth in economy past the Civil war and before destruction of free market (1913 - Federal reserve and income taxes, which became the instrument of government growth and destruction). 0% income taxes. Prices going down. Real innovation, inventions, real growth of economic wealth due to real growth of production, shift from being a debtor to being largest creditor nation, producer of cheap, high quality consumer goods.
I guess Germans and Japanese really are a master races then, doing better than Americans even with more government. Because, after all, you asserting that they would do even better with less government is all that's needed prove it.
- I am going to abstain from 'master-race' comments.
Yes, but you see, that's the genius of strong government: government is worse than private industry at everything, so it logically follows that it's worse than Wall Street at destroying economy too.
- USA has the strongest government regulations and highest taxes of them all. USA's only export is fiat currency, which is why it is in the predicament that it is at this point (well, some weapons, some entertainment and certain food products, but mostly USD and debt.)
USA is not 'suffering' from from too much private business, it has very little productive business left that is private, it's easy to see with the 53Billion USD/month trade deficit.
The outsourcing is a good thing in this case, it saves the ability of certain businesses to produce without paying the artificially high costs imposed by US gov't regulations and taxation and subsidies to monopolies. It's good that they can run away from that failing system, some of their products are going to be used across the world, regardless of US failing economy.
I am discouraged by your thoughtless comments.