As a libertarian my position never changed, I always root for the individual (and a company is property of an individual, so the same logic applies) to win against the violence of the collective. Governments are the ultimate and most violent (wars) representation of the collective. Government is the ultimate weapon of the mob against an individual and his freedoms. Realizing that the real virtue is in the Individual freedom and the non aggression principle is how you fix the issue of tribalism destroying rationality.
The entire premise of 'anti-trust' coming from a government, ANY government is laughable in every possible way. The only real monopolies that can abuse power are created by governments and it is government power that is abused by them, as for Google and other companies that compete among each other and may become dominant (for some time) in a market - this is due to the choice of the clients, who collectively vote for that company to be in a more dominant position at that time.
Absolutely 100% correct. Also I would like to add that if this strategy is somehow supposed to 'help women' it is also going to backfire, just like all such nonsensical regulations rather than market based ideas do. There are plenty of women who will get hurt through the indirect action of their husbands/significant others not being able to get a better paying job.
Even if men were payed more because they were better negotiators (which is not the reason for the higher pay that *some* men command over women as you have already mentioned) it doesn't mean that lowering their pay (which is all that this proposed 'solution' is) will not hurt women! Many of those men have women in their lives and when a man's potential earnings are capped by such artificial barriers those women (and the entire families) will also feel the sting.
You are absolutely correct, don't pay attention to lawsuit trolls like rahvin112 with his nonsensical socialist comment, where he proves that he wants to force everybody to cater to his specific needs whether they want to deal with him or not.
Seems like FB account is something that all businesses jumped onto. I read stats that show that 63% is the average participation on FB (for developed nations I suppose), that 56% people recommend products on FB, 64.2% skim recommendations, 38% conduct product research within 4 weeks of finding a product on FB, 27% are more likely to make a purchase because of FB recommendation.
Now look at it from business point of view, they know they have to be on this media to have those numbers apply to them.
Personally I don't have FB account, but a business seems to need one.
Then it follows from your comment that 99% of English speakers are spoon fed social justice theory that prevents them from understanding the most basic things.
Should a Jewish photographer be forced to take pictures at a Nazi party? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other photographers that will do it for you.
Should a black baker be forced to bake a KKK cake for the Klan meeting? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other bakers that will do it for you.
Should an atheist doctor be forced to perform brit milah (circumcision) on religious grounds? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other doctors that will do it for you.
Basically to find a single case of a business that will discriminate against whatever practice or religion or race one has to go very much out of their way.
I am sure that to make a story out of this (like a story of a cake maker that would not make cakes for some gay wedding or a story of a photographer that will not work at a gay wedding) one has to call up dozens if not hundreds of businesses out of Yellow Pages specifically looking to create a story out of nothing.
The zealot is you, the person who believes that if there is one business out there that will not serve you based on whatever prejudice that the business holds, it must be made illegal for that business to exist even though the rules of the market and competition ensure that you have dozens, hundreds, thousands of options.
You are wrong because you don't understand what a right is. You think you have a right to dictate to other people and to take their rights away to get your entitlements, you see rights as something that must be taken away from somebody else and given to you.
Rights are protections against government abuse, you can't have a moral society where some people use violence of the State to steal rights of others and give themselves entitlements they believe they have a 'right' to.
Your belief is a belief of somebody who wants to enslave others to himself and that is definitely immoral.
So the Civil Rights movement was not related to any "rights"?
- civil rights movement did one (1) of 2 things that was correct, it insisted that government must treat everybody equally and it must.
It did one more thing, which was absolutely illegal, unconstitutional and most importantly immoral, it destroyed rights of individuals to private property and association when it caused businesses to be regulated that way.
So a person has no rights. A "right" is only a restriction on the government, and not tied to a person.
- that's not what I said. A right is everything that you can do without government abusing you. USA founders said exactly that, some where more insistent than others that the Constitution is the exact literal enumeration of powers allocated to the government, the powers that allow government to step over the rights of an individual under specific conditions. Government is violence by definition, that is all it is and for the governed to accept the government they have to see good reason for it and the way the USA Founders saw it, government had to have very specific powers given to it to deal with cases where people would be denied their rights.
A person in jail is a person, whose right to freedom is denied by government oppression, that oppression has to be enumerated as one of the powers allocated to the government. Government has to prove that it can oppress the right of that individual to freedom.
A person murdered by another person or a person hurt somehow by a company (which is really just another person or a group of people) is an individual situation, where criminal code may apply in order to establish guilt or innocence and to hand out oppression of rights again to those, who basically broke the criminal code rules.
So you can see that rights are related to individual or business and government, while criminal code is related to dealing between individuals or companies.
Government officials can break the law as well of-course, then it also has to be punished according to the criminal code, but government as a system cannot be punished by any criminal code, there is nobody personally to punish, so because government is a system it has to adhere to rules defined in the Constitution, rules as to how the government can oppress/abuse individuals, who have all the rights until the government can use its authority to deny that right.
The right means exactly that: government cannot oppress you and abuse you (and murdering you is a form of oppression and abuse), there is no concept of a 'right' between 2 individuals or businesses and there cannot be, because out of 2 individuals or businesses none of them have any legal authority to dictate to another and/or to use any form of violence. We have to have rights when we are dealing with a government, because government has legal authority to use violence (unfortunately), so to counterbalance that legal authority to violence we have to have rules that prevent governments from just using that violence however they like.
As to violence between 2 individuals or companies, that has nothing to do with rights, that has to do with criminal law as it is understood within that locality. You could have a completely private criminal justice system and still deal with violence that way. People did give up their right to deal with criminal code to governments in most cases, but because the governments are (supposed to be) bound by the rules that are established as individual rights, governments also cannot just pretend to deal with criminal cases without abiding by those rules.
These are completely different issues, a right is about an individual or a company (which I also see as an individual) dealing with the violent government authority and criminal code is about individual and private matters, where individuals are interested in preventing crime committed by other individuals.
Actually the entire idea of these special entitlements that destroy individual rights TO DISCRIMINATE is a power grab by the insane government that is out of control.
Individual people discriminate every day. As a potential employee you can choose to work for a one legged Brazilian tranny and there is nothing any of the other potential employers can do to stop this obvious bigotry and discrimination by you against their businesses, NOR should there be anything they could do to force you to work for them. That's EXACTLY the same thing.
PRECISELY the same thing, since you working for a company is exactly like a company doing work for other people. When you buy a product you are buying work done by a company for you. A company is people standing behind it (corporations are in fact people, not as in 'Google is a living person', it is not. It is as in Google is owned by people, that's the people corporations are). A person that owns/runs a company has his or her right to discriminate and the Constitution of the USA is there to protect that right.
A right is a protection against government oppression and abuse, nothing else.
A government telling somebody that just because they are employing somebody they now lost a right is abuse and oppression and a power grab and unconstitutional and illegal and immoral.
Should people discriminate against each other based on sex, gender, age, race, colour? We know that some will and some do. If a business does so, it will face consequences whatever they are in the market. As to a belief that just because a business exists somewhere you automatically get an entitlement to their service - that is hubris and destruction of the people running that business as individuals and it cannot stand.
In case of thie flight, it would have helped if the captain had a code that would have opened the door regardless of it being locked from the inside. But then the copilot might have just killed him first, before diving the plane to the ground.
We are all pretty good at fighting yesterday's battles. This happened in Europe, but in the USA there was time people could fly with only a ticket and not any ID, they could bring their guns with them too. Now you cannot have a gun, the cockpits are locked with farely strong doors because everybody is scared of terrorists, they didn't even have an axe on board, just a crowbar. Apparently the captain tried breaking the door with a crowbar, I wonder if he tried breaking the wall beside the door. Flying is completely fucked up, TSA harasses you and then you don't know if a psychotic pilot will kill you anyway.
How about TRYING FREEDOM for a change? Bring your ticket, allow people to take their guns with them and keep axes on board while removing insane cockpit doors?
Sure, everything can still go wrong, at least you are not just a sardin in a can, hoping not to be eaten this time around.
This is more government bullshit, you cannot dictate or decree culture, if you are doing that then what you are doing is you are actually destroying what the real culture is to impose your own version of it and I cannot imagine that can work in real life and be an actual substitute for actual culture.
You cannot force people to like things you like, you cannot force people to enjoy things you enjoy. You can make people HATE things you hate in some cases by pretending that thing being a threat, that's how dictators operate (including elected dictators).
This is a bullshit money grabbing measure, nothing else.
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah, America, FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah, Terrorists your game is through cause now you have to answer too, America, FUCK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls, America, FUCK YEAH! What you going to do when we come for you now, itâ(TM)s the dream that we all share; itâ(TM)s the hope for tomorrow
FUCK YEAH!
McDonalds, FUCK YEAH! Wal-Mart, FUCK YEAH! The Gap, FUCK YEAH! Baseball, FUCK YEAH! NFL, FUCK YEAH! Rock and roll, FUCK YEAH! The Internet, FUCK YEAH! Slavery, FUCK YEAH!
It's interesting how freedom of association can be applied very selectively. Sure, union members are associating with each other supposedly freely, but if a shop is a closed union shop you can't get a job there without being 'freely associated' and if a union is established the employer in many cases cannot avoid having to 'associate with it' (well, employer can shut down the shop and move on, which sometimes happens and for a good reason).
Not only are you a thief, angry when somebody you want to steal from doesnt let you take everything you have your sights on, you are also ignorant. Free market means one singular thing: free from violent oppression of the State (and thus the mob, thieves just like you), nothing else. Cartels? No problem with anything like that at all. Now, government cartels, who have legislative and enforcement power - that is the only actual problem. Government using its violence to pander to thieves (like you) and selling that oppression during elections, that is the problem. Good news in all of this - the bubble in currency and debt inflated by governments spilled over into a bubble of government itself. When this one implodes, it will take everything with it, most importantly the governments themselves. Thieves (like you) all of a sudden will have to do your own bidding with your own hands and since you are used to all the stealing to be done for you by governments, you will have to relearn even that skill. And it is easier for individuals to deal with individual thieves and robbers than with a system devised to wteal and rob institutionally.
Oh, what absolute pleasure it would be to see a real fight between those, regarding themselves as 'liberal' (in the USA understanding of the word) and 'conservative' (in the same USA context). I am talking about a real fight, civil war type of scenario, where you have no choice but to take a side and go at it with everything you've got. That's the way of the future it looks like, let's make it fun.
Wrong, it's the governments (of the world actually) that do not value unalienable rights. That is the only reason USA used to be known as unique, it had those rights built into the Constitution and then eventually as those rights allowed the markets to create the wealthiest economy in the world in 19th century, the collectivists saw that as an opportunity to steal and pushed for destruction of what made USA unique - protecting those rights.
Markets value what individuals value on voluntary basis and individuals on voluntary basis making individual choices do value their own freedom to possess and operate private property. That's the most important right that governments of the world violate every minute of every day.
AFAIC it is absolutely Google's business and nobody else's how they provide results to the search queries sent to their servers. Governments involving themselves into that process is destruction of the unalienable rights, destruction of private property rights, just like all business regulations, all income and wealth related taxes, pretty much everything governments do every moment of every day.
Slashdot Mirror
As a libertarian my position never changed, I always root for the individual (and a company is property of an individual, so the same logic applies) to win against the violence of the collective. Governments are the ultimate and most violent (wars) representation of the collective. Government is the ultimate weapon of the mob against an individual and his freedoms. Realizing that the real virtue is in the Individual freedom and the non aggression principle is how you fix the issue of tribalism destroying rationality.
Those who cannot do - sue.
The entire premise of 'anti-trust' coming from a government, ANY government is laughable in every possible way. The only real monopolies that can abuse power are created by governments and it is government power that is abused by them, as for Google and other companies that compete among each other and may become dominant (for some time) in a market - this is due to the choice of the clients, who collectively vote for that company to be in a more dominant position at that time.
That's no moon. It's a space station!
I run a feminist forum
- so then what is the point if the entire forum is a troll?
You are choosing temporary convenience over individual freedom, at the end you will have no convenience and no freedom.
Absolutely 100% correct.
Also I would like to add that if this strategy is somehow supposed to 'help women' it is also going to backfire, just like all such nonsensical regulations rather than market based ideas do. There are plenty of women who will get hurt through the indirect action of their husbands/significant others not being able to get a better paying job.
Even if men were payed more because they were better negotiators (which is not the reason for the higher pay that *some* men command over women as you have already mentioned) it doesn't mean that lowering their pay (which is all that this proposed 'solution' is) will not hurt women! Many of those men have women in their lives and when a man's potential earnings are capped by such artificial barriers those women (and the entire families) will also feel the sting.
You are absolutely correct, don't pay attention to lawsuit trolls like rahvin112 with his nonsensical socialist comment, where he proves that he wants to force everybody to cater to his specific needs whether they want to deal with him or not.
You are correct.
The last 2 and a half comments from you were pure garbage, so I don't see a point talking on these terms. Cheers.
Seems like FB account is something that all businesses jumped onto. I read stats that show that 63% is the average participation on FB (for developed nations I suppose), that 56% people recommend products on FB, 64.2% skim recommendations, 38% conduct product research within 4 weeks of finding a product on FB, 27% are more likely to make a purchase because of FB recommendation.
Now look at it from business point of view, they know they have to be on this media to have those numbers apply to them.
Personally I don't have FB account, but a business seems to need one.
Then it follows from your comment that 99% of English speakers are spoon fed social justice theory that prevents them from understanding the most basic things.
Should a Jewish photographer be forced to take pictures at a Nazi party? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other photographers that will do it for you.
Should a black baker be forced to bake a KKK cake for the Klan meeting? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other bakers that will do it for you.
Should an atheist doctor be forced to perform brit milah (circumcision) on religious grounds? Especially when in fact there are thousands of other doctors that will do it for you.
Basically to find a single case of a business that will discriminate against whatever practice or religion or race one has to go very much out of their way.
I am sure that to make a story out of this (like a story of a cake maker that would not make cakes for some gay wedding or a story of a photographer that will not work at a gay wedding) one has to call up dozens if not hundreds of businesses out of Yellow Pages specifically looking to create a story out of nothing.
The zealot is you, the person who believes that if there is one business out there that will not serve you based on whatever prejudice that the business holds, it must be made illegal for that business to exist even though the rules of the market and competition ensure that you have dozens, hundreds, thousands of options.
You are wrong because you don't understand what a right is. You think you have a right to dictate to other people and to take their rights away to get your entitlements, you see rights as something that must be taken away from somebody else and given to you.
Rights are protections against government abuse, you can't have a moral society where some people use violence of the State to steal rights of others and give themselves entitlements they believe they have a 'right' to.
Your belief is a belief of somebody who wants to enslave others to himself and that is definitely immoral.
So the Civil Rights movement was not related to any "rights"?
- civil rights movement did one (1) of 2 things that was correct, it insisted that government must treat everybody equally and it must.
It did one more thing, which was absolutely illegal, unconstitutional and most importantly immoral, it destroyed rights of individuals to private property and association when it caused businesses to be regulated that way.
So a person has no rights. A "right" is only a restriction on the government, and not tied to a person.
- that's not what I said. A right is everything that you can do without government abusing you. USA founders said exactly that, some where more insistent than others that the Constitution is the exact literal enumeration of powers allocated to the government, the powers that allow government to step over the rights of an individual under specific conditions. Government is violence by definition, that is all it is and for the governed to accept the government they have to see good reason for it and the way the USA Founders saw it, government had to have very specific powers given to it to deal with cases where people would be denied their rights.
A person in jail is a person, whose right to freedom is denied by government oppression, that oppression has to be enumerated as one of the powers allocated to the government. Government has to prove that it can oppress the right of that individual to freedom.
A person murdered by another person or a person hurt somehow by a company (which is really just another person or a group of people) is an individual situation, where criminal code may apply in order to establish guilt or innocence and to hand out oppression of rights again to those, who basically broke the criminal code rules.
So you can see that rights are related to individual or business and government, while criminal code is related to dealing between individuals or companies.
Government officials can break the law as well of-course, then it also has to be punished according to the criminal code, but government as a system cannot be punished by any criminal code, there is nobody personally to punish, so because government is a system it has to adhere to rules defined in the Constitution, rules as to how the government can oppress/abuse individuals, who have all the rights until the government can use its authority to deny that right.
The right means exactly that: government cannot oppress you and abuse you (and murdering you is a form of oppression and abuse), there is no concept of a 'right' between 2 individuals or businesses and there cannot be, because out of 2 individuals or businesses none of them have any legal authority to dictate to another and/or to use any form of violence. We have to have rights when we are dealing with a government, because government has legal authority to use violence (unfortunately), so to counterbalance that legal authority to violence we have to have rules that prevent governments from just using that violence however they like.
As to violence between 2 individuals or companies, that has nothing to do with rights, that has to do with criminal law as it is understood within that locality. You could have a completely private criminal justice system and still deal with violence that way. People did give up their right to deal with criminal code to governments in most cases, but because the governments are (supposed to be) bound by the rules that are established as individual rights, governments also cannot just pretend to deal with criminal cases without abiding by those rules.
These are completely different issues, a right is about an individual or a company (which I also see as an individual) dealing with the violent government authority and criminal code is about individual and private matters, where individuals are interested in preventing crime committed by other individuals.
Actually the entire idea of these special entitlements that destroy individual rights TO DISCRIMINATE is a power grab by the insane government that is out of control.
Individual people discriminate every day. As a potential employee you can choose to work for a one legged Brazilian tranny and there is nothing any of the other potential employers can do to stop this obvious bigotry and discrimination by you against their businesses, NOR should there be anything they could do to force you to work for them. That's EXACTLY the same thing.
PRECISELY the same thing, since you working for a company is exactly like a company doing work for other people. When you buy a product you are buying work done by a company for you. A company is people standing behind it (corporations are in fact people, not as in 'Google is a living person', it is not. It is as in Google is owned by people, that's the people corporations are). A person that owns/runs a company has his or her right to discriminate and the Constitution of the USA is there to protect that right.
A right is a protection against government oppression and abuse, nothing else.
A government telling somebody that just because they are employing somebody they now lost a right is abuse and oppression and a power grab and unconstitutional and illegal and immoral.
Should people discriminate against each other based on sex, gender, age, race, colour? We know that some will and some do. If a business does so, it will face consequences whatever they are in the market. As to a belief that just because a business exists somewhere you automatically get an entitlement to their service - that is hubris and destruction of the people running that business as individuals and it cannot stand.
Of-course you are absolutely 100% correct, which was my first comment on this topic before the one you replied to. But my first comment appears to be extremely unpopular here.
In case of thie flight, it would have helped if the captain had a code that would have opened the door regardless of it being locked from the inside. But then the copilot might have just killed him first, before diving the plane to the ground.
We are all pretty good at fighting yesterday's battles. This happened in Europe, but in the USA there was time people could fly with only a ticket and not any ID, they could bring their guns with them too. Now you cannot have a gun, the cockpits are locked with farely strong doors because everybody is scared of terrorists, they didn't even have an axe on board, just a crowbar. Apparently the captain tried breaking the door with a crowbar, I wonder if he tried breaking the wall beside the door. Flying is completely fucked up, TSA harasses you and then you don't know if a psychotic pilot will kill you anyway.
How about TRYING FREEDOM for a change? Bring your ticket, allow people to take their guns with them and keep axes on board while removing insane cockpit doors?
Sure, everything can still go wrong, at least you are not just a sardin in a can, hoping not to be eaten this time around.
This is more government bullshit, you cannot dictate or decree culture, if you are doing that then what you are doing is you are actually destroying what the real culture is to impose your own version of it and I cannot imagine that can work in real life and be an actual substitute for actual culture.
You cannot force people to like things you like, you cannot force people to enjoy things you enjoy. You can make people HATE things you hate in some cases by pretending that thing being a threat, that's how dictators operate (including elected dictators).
This is a bullshit money grabbing measure, nothing else.
America...
America...
America, FUCK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah,
America, FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorists your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, FUCK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, FUCK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
itâ(TM)s the dream that we all share; itâ(TM)s the hope for tomorrow
FUCK YEAH!
McDonalds, FUCK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, FUCK YEAH!
The Gap, FUCK YEAH!
Baseball, FUCK YEAH!
NFL, FUCK YEAH!
Rock and roll, FUCK YEAH!
The Internet, FUCK YEAH!
Slavery, FUCK YEAH!
FUCK YEAH!
Starbucks, FUCK YEAH!
Disney world, FUCK YEAH!
Porno, FUCK YEAH!
Valium, FUCK YEAH!
Reeboks, FUCK YEAH!
Fake Tits, FUCK YEAH!
Sushi, FUCK YEAH!
Taco Bell, FUCK YEAH!
Rodeos, FUCK YEAH!
Bed Bath And Beyond (fuck yeah?, fuck yeah)
Liberty, FUCK YEAH! ....fuck yeah)
White Slips, FUCK YEAH!
The Alamo, FUCK YEAH!
Band-aids, FUCK YEAH!
Las Vegas, FUCK YEAH!
Christmas, FUCK YEAH!
Immigrants, FUCK YEAH!
Popeye, FUCK YEAH!
Democrats, FUCK YEAH!
Republicans (.....fuck yeah,
Sportsmanship, (....)
Books, (......)
it doesn't matter who is at fault, you hit a pedestrian, he or she is likely to die, so try not to hit them, however it's not all that cut and dry in Ontario either, people sometimes get killed on the road and drivers are not always charged with anything.
It's interesting how freedom of association can be applied very selectively. Sure, union members are associating with each other supposedly freely, but if a shop is a closed union shop you can't get a job there without being 'freely associated' and if a union is established the employer in many cases cannot avoid having to 'associate with it' (well, employer can shut down the shop and move on, which sometimes happens and for a good reason).
Not only are you a thief, angry when somebody you want to steal from doesnt let you take everything you have your sights on, you are also ignorant. Free market means one singular thing: free from violent oppression of the State (and thus the mob, thieves just like you), nothing else. Cartels? No problem with anything like that at all. Now, government cartels, who have legislative and enforcement power - that is the only actual problem. Government using its violence to pander to thieves (like you) and selling that oppression during elections, that is the problem. Good news in all of this - the bubble in currency and debt inflated by governments spilled over into a bubble of government itself. When this one implodes, it will take everything with it, most importantly the governments themselves. Thieves (like you) all of a sudden will have to do your own bidding with your own hands and since you are used to all the stealing to be done for you by governments, you will have to relearn even that skill. And it is easier for individuals to deal with individual thieves and robbers than with a system devised to wteal and rob institutionally.
Oh, what absolute pleasure it would be to see a real fight between those, regarding themselves as 'liberal' (in the USA understanding of the word) and 'conservative' (in the same USA context). I am talking about a real fight, civil war type of scenario, where you have no choice but to take a side and go at it with everything you've got. That's the way of the future it looks like, let's make it fun.
Wrong, it's the governments (of the world actually) that do not value unalienable rights. That is the only reason USA used to be known as unique, it had those rights built into the Constitution and then eventually as those rights allowed the markets to create the wealthiest economy in the world in 19th century, the collectivists saw that as an opportunity to steal and pushed for destruction of what made USA unique - protecting those rights.
Markets value what individuals value on voluntary basis and individuals on voluntary basis making individual choices do value their own freedom to possess and operate private property. That's the most important right that governments of the world violate every minute of every day.
AFAIC it is absolutely Google's business and nobody else's how they provide results to the search queries sent to their servers. Governments involving themselves into that process is destruction of the unalienable rights, destruction of private property rights, just like all business regulations, all income and wealth related taxes, pretty much everything governments do every moment of every day.