How about getting the RPM source packages and making the binary RPM packages yourself, if you really like compiling X (of all things!) yourself? I used to do that do compile inf the "offensive" cookies that Redhat insisted on chopping off fortune-mod. You have to read up a little on RPM package building, but this is no rocket science... --
Unfortunately, some popular commercial software depends on Wind/U, namely ColdFusion for Solaris. Wind/U is the singlemost reason that CF sucks so much under Solaris.
Of course, CF sucks a lot on its own merits, but that's a whole different story --
And the truth is, dear shill, that a federal judge found that Microsoft is "evil", or more accurately, guilty of unfair trade practices.
How about using some of your own advice and recognizing, for a change, that your beloved company sometimes acts in a reprehensible manner? But that would be too much to ask, Zico admitting that Microsoft can err. Sorry, no can do that. --
This makes absolutely no sense, I can publish a scientific magazine that uses the word 'fuck' in every other sentence (never mind context:-) and there's no judge or law enforcement authority that will shut me up on grounds of obscenity.
No matter how much the religious right may have impregnated on people's minds, "free speech" doesn't protect speech against a government one doesn't like particularly, it protects all speech, even the proverbial "fire in crowded theater" cliché (the difference being the legal consequences of said speech).
Unless we have a large disagreement as to what lewd means (incidentally, it meant "lay, laical" originally) you are way off base here, my friend. --
What we all are waiting for though, are laws that protect the majority of ortography abiding posters from the privileged minority of spelling-challenged ones.
On an even more pedantic note, I know of no country in the West where women are a "minority", no matter how much the gender gap at your CS classes might tell you otherwise. And to put the icing on the cake, I believe "lewd" speech is as much protected as prayer is. --
That's why people are exposing this as the scam that it is (much like the EULA in shrink wrap software), bonehead.
If you took the trouble of rubbing together those two neurons of ya, instead of using them for scavenging the web for a new racist web site to put on on your.sig, you woulda noticed that. But I suppose that is too much to ask for. --
Re:Here we go..... [über-offtopic]
on
TigerCloning
·
· Score: 1
Or, in a more hackerly mode of expression:
Islamism is a fork of Christianism, which is a fork of Judaism. Or you can think of sub-classing, if you're of the OO persuasion.
I propose the term "middle-eastern monotheist" or "zoroastrian-derived" (since, I believe, they all derive from the old Zoroastrian faith, which is still alive, BTW). None of those ring as niftly as "judeo-christian", but that is probably because of media exposure. Plain old "monotheism" is perfectly fine also. --
Re:Is this the right thing to do?
on
TigerCloning
·
· Score: 1
I humbly propose the name of 'Dan Hayes' to be nominated as troll mastah supreme! That was brilliant! Second Law of Thermodynamics, indeed... --
Re:Here we go..... [über-offtopic]
on
TigerCloning
·
· Score: 1
Although it's already late in the discussion, I just have to pick my nits here:
In terms of God's role (and with that capital 'g' I refer to the Judeo-Christian god...
What's with this Judeo-Christian god thing anyway, that people spew every so often so as to sound smart? You may have noticed that the islamic god is essentially the same, holy liturgy and all, right? So why people keep on insisting on this notion of Judeo-Christian God, Judeo-Christian values, Judeo-Christian this and that, to the exclusion of Muslims, as if all those three monotheist religions didn't stem from the same roots? Don't you think that whole thing plays a role in the general public perception of all Muslims as rabid fundamentalist fanatics bent on destroying the West? Don't you think it sort of reinforces that prejudice? Just think about it.
Disclaimer: IANAM nor do I play one on TV. --
Re:I'm getting tired of this...
on
Men of Zeal
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· Score: 1
I wasn't going to respond to your post, because this thread is already stale, and it would look line we went into chat mode (hey, did I just create a new jargon term?) on/.
However, you brought some reallyinteresting points, some of which I actually agree with and some which I just have to have my say about, to wit:
How is it a benefit to the service company if the software is free?
What you seem to have missed is the keyword custom version in my reasoning. The software exists, customer doesn't have to pay a dime for it, but if it wants a version tailored to its needs it has a host of options, all of which involves paying developers. If those changes are released to the public or not, is not of a concern for the paying customer, since software is cost to it. It shouldn't matter to the developer as well, because most of the work is probably only interesting to that particular client, and the portion of it that isn't, can help him (and his competitors, true) out in some other assignment, so it can be commited to the standard version. All benefit, and nooone looses.
Mind you, I've been working in the IT industry for eight and a half years now, and, even though I've never been paid to write free software, I've only been paid to write off-the-shelf commodity software for a short spell of six months (the worst job I've ever had BTW). All the rest of my job experience was writing software for companies that sold it to customers (financial institutions, mostly) who not only had access to the source code, but often times demanded it on contract. Now tell me, what would any of the parties lose if that was released as free software?
What you seem to overlook is that I contribute to several open source projects. I love coding. I also need to eat and have shelter too, though.
I didn't mean my remarks as a personal jab at you, I'm sorry if that's how it came up to you. But I guess I demonstrated that there are perfectly fine ways of doing free software development and get paid for it. Or, at your option you can get another job (more or less profitable than programming) and write free software for love in your free time. Either way, you're still feeding yourself and free software is still getting written. Net result: more (and potentially, better) free software.
Also, a lot of open source code isn't even written by professional developers, but instead by sysadmins and webmasters.
Now here my friend, this is something I totally agree with, and it saddens me that it is so, but I don't see it as such a big problem for two reasons:
Even sysadmin written software (the canonical example IMHO being Perl) can be useful, its crapiness and bogosity notwithstanding;
This is changing, as more and more free software projects (GNOME, KDE, XEmacs spring to mind) have a fair amount of organization and good old-fashioned software engineering sprinkled in their recipes. Maybe I'm a natural born optimist, but that's how I see it;
RMS has stated many times that it is "immoral" to produce (or even use) non-"free" software. Many
other open source zealots have stated that all software should be free. Many also have the belief that
copyright is wrong, and the people should be able to distribute software as they please.
Maybe I'm a zealot, but I agree with that. All software should be free. I would never say, though, that all software must be free. Huge semantic difference, right?
Finally, my last point was that software sold as a commodity is a relatively new phenomenon, and there's no guarantee that it's here to stay and will always be a source of immense profit. People will get paid for programming (or tutoring AI robots) in the foreseeable future, though.
PS: looking back on this post (blessed be the preview button) it seems I abused the <b> tag. Here it goes, anyway... --
Re:I'm getting tired of this...
on
Men of Zeal
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· Score: 1
I think it's a little bit late in the discussion to address your points, but since noone seemed to have taken notice and/or cared to reply to what IMHO are pretty much reasonable, but otherwise easy to answer, questions, here I go. Free software developers can make money (the proverbial and emotional feed their families) in a number of ways:
Computer manufacturers can pay developers to enhance, embelish and improve the functionality of the machines they sell. Granted, that adds to the cost, but most manufacturers do it in a small scale. Doing it in the large scale with cooperative effort doesn't seem such a big deal;
Services companies can develop generic free software tools that are customizable for client sites for a fee. The client of course, has the option of hiring and independent consultant or pay a full-time employee to do that. Either way, problem solved, free market working, developers and customers satisfied;
Online business can develop a host of free software tools that are used to draw viewers to their sites. Not only that, but the "Internet" (or more specifically the commercial online ventures) provide opportunity for plenty of development that fits the previouys item I listed;
Lastly, but none the leastly, developers of free software can get a law degree and work as lawyers by day (a very promising career, I'm told) and write free software on weekends or rainy days. But that's the option you didn't want to hear baout, right ?
What you seem to overlook is the fact that even if there were no financial incentive to developing free software, people would do it (for love of the art, boredom or whatever). It would eventually improve (as it did), drawing the attention of more and more people (as it did), at some point rivalling and overcoming the quality of comercially available mainstream software (as it will, I trust). There's no way to avoid that, except by erecting artificial barriers that prevented people from freely writing software. And then, we'd have a collision with our beloved free speech rights, wouldn't we?
Let's try and think different now, shall we? The main point of your argument is that the development of software, being as expensive as it is, is not viable if that software is freely available, because it undermines the possibilities of its commercial success. But noboody can guarantee that development of software for sale as a commodity will remain a very profitable business. For most of the history of the computer industry (50s-80s) it wasn't. Only in the last 20 years it spawned a multi-billion dollar industry, but there's not indication that this will remain so in the long run. Even Microsoft has its compass pointed at alternative models. Think about it.
Ob your last query, I think it is really a meaningless question: nobody is demanding your work for no compensation. I'd rather view it as requesting your help for a joint effort, the final product being the shared compensation. It's not like you're working alone, riight? --
That is a rather poor example. Is it just a matter of preference whether you believe that God exists or not? Ultimately, there either is, or isn't a God. There cannot both exist a God and not exist a God. And if you're wrong...
You're either misinformed or pretty lacking in imaginations here. I have a couple of Indian friends who'll gladly tell you they not only believe in one God, but actually in a whole pantheon of Them! And if more is indeed better, I guess we non-Hindus are pretty much doomed...
And of course, even within the context of the three main monotheist religions there's a couple questions that set them apart concerning the wishes of the Deity... --
Please, don't take me wrong, I've read this a number of times, mostly from Scandinavian people, but also from people of other nationalities as well, and it puzzles me immensely: are you in Norway or from Norway? I trust the semantic connotations are not too subtle for your comprehension (Scandinavians speaking English a lot better than most Europeans), so I ask of you are they intentional or unthought of? Don you really consider yourself more part of a global grand scheme and just happening to live in Norway? Do you think that notion is widespread around your country? Elsewhere?
I for one, have never seen a good ol' yankee doodle worth his salt claiming he just lives in the US. --
Yeah, that's the monster... In my experience, it is far worse that 101, though I suppose not many people use it to go from anywhere in the BA to San Jose --
The way I see it, this could just be a "proactive" step prior to a breakup. Future "apps" baby bill is already in the works to get a viable MS Office for Linux, which can be a good thing for them (never dismiss the PR factor) and for some Linux users (not this one, though!).
OTOH, I know vey little about Mainsoft, but if their product is anything like Wind/U, they'll get the same stability and robustness of ColdFusion on Solaris (brrr!). Which, come to think of it, can be an improvement in the case of MS Word. --
English has many characteristics that are useful in programming. English spans the spectrum from the technical precision of German
to the emotional expressiveness of the romance languages.
I have just one thing to say (and please, don't take it personally): you are very naïve about linguistics and the above sentencs only show some common misconceptions that are more realted to prejudice and ignorance than to knowledge of other languages/cultures,
All languages are capable of expressing the whole spectrum of human emotions/thoughts/impressions. It may be expressed in somewhat different shades of orange, so to speak, but the essence of the picture is the same. That's the first lesson of Language 101.
--
That's translated VBA, as people have pointed out elsewhere.
The nightmare would really begin when someone from the German branch woul send you an Excel macro in German VBA that would bomb in Portuguese VBA. Shudder... --
On another note, I don't agree with you that most commands and control word in the languages you cite are present tense second person conjugations. It's actually imperative, which should be obvious once you remember those are, after all, imperative languages.
Thus the equivalent of goto in German or Spanish C would be gehnach and vapara. Ugh! Better stick to writing spaghetti code in C.
Then again, all of the above is just MHO and IANAL (not a certified linguist, that is, just a diletante). --
Not that the Japanese (of all people!) are renowned for theit language skills (what's the logic behind salary man, huh?), though, which is quite visible when Sony et alii come up with a new product with a (pseudo) English name.
Not to mention those darn cartoons! Eww! Did I mention I hate anime?
--
I would venture to warn you that most American shows are translated and dubbed in the local languages when aired abroad, but I bet you already knew that, didnt't ya? --
Slashdot Mirror
How about getting the RPM source packages and making the binary RPM packages yourself, if you really like compiling X (of all things!) yourself? I used to do that do compile inf the "offensive" cookies that Redhat insisted on chopping off fortune-mod. You have to read up a little on RPM package building, but this is no rocket science...
--
Of course, CF sucks a lot on its own merits, but that's a whole different story
--
- Quit reading, and specially posting to it;
- Just filter out the MSFT stories that offend you so much, damn it;
Because, son, unfortunately we have no way to killfile you... Yet...--
How about using some of your own advice and recognizing, for a change, that your beloved company sometimes acts in a reprehensible manner? But that would be too much to ask, Zico admitting that Microsoft can err. Sorry, no can do that.
--
No matter how much the religious right may have impregnated on people's minds, "free speech" doesn't protect speech against a government one doesn't like particularly, it protects all speech, even the proverbial "fire in crowded theater" cliché (the difference being the legal consequences of said speech).
Unless we have a large disagreement as to what lewd means (incidentally, it meant "lay, laical" originally) you are way off base here, my friend.
--
On an even more pedantic note, I know of no country in the West where women are a "minority", no matter how much the gender gap at your CS classes might tell you otherwise. And to put the icing on the cake, I believe "lewd" speech is as much protected as prayer is.
--
If you took the trouble of rubbing together those two neurons of ya, instead of using them for scavenging the web for a new racist web site to put on on your .sig, you woulda noticed that. But I suppose that is too much to ask for.
--
Islamism is a fork of Christianism, which is a fork of Judaism. Or you can think of sub-classing, if you're of the OO persuasion.
I propose the term "middle-eastern monotheist" or "zoroastrian-derived" (since, I believe, they all derive from the old Zoroastrian faith, which is still alive, BTW). None of those ring as niftly as "judeo-christian", but that is probably because of media exposure. Plain old "monotheism" is perfectly fine also.
--
I humbly propose the name of 'Dan Hayes' to be nominated as troll mastah supreme! That was brilliant! Second Law of Thermodynamics, indeed...
--
In terms of God's role (and with that capital 'g' I refer to the Judeo-Christian god...
What's with this Judeo-Christian god thing anyway, that people spew every so often so as to sound smart? You may have noticed that the islamic god is essentially the same, holy liturgy and all, right? So why people keep on insisting on this notion of Judeo-Christian God, Judeo-Christian values, Judeo-Christian this and that, to the exclusion of Muslims, as if all those three monotheist religions didn't stem from the same roots? Don't you think that whole thing plays a role in the general public perception of all Muslims as rabid fundamentalist fanatics bent on destroying the West? Don't you think it sort of reinforces that prejudice? Just think about it.
Disclaimer: IANAM nor do I play one on TV.
--
However, you brought some reallyinteresting points, some of which I actually agree with and some which I just have to have my say about, to wit:
How is it a benefit to the service company if the software is free?
What you seem to have missed is the keyword custom version in my reasoning. The software exists, customer doesn't have to pay a dime for it, but if it wants a version tailored to its needs it has a host of options, all of which involves paying developers. If those changes are released to the public or not, is not of a concern for the paying customer, since software is cost to it. It shouldn't matter to the developer as well, because most of the work is probably only interesting to that particular client, and the portion of it that isn't, can help him (and his competitors, true) out in some other assignment, so it can be commited to the standard version. All benefit, and nooone looses.
Mind you, I've been working in the IT industry for eight and a half years now, and, even though I've never been paid to write free software, I've only been paid to write off-the-shelf commodity software for a short spell of six months (the worst job I've ever had BTW). All the rest of my job experience was writing software for companies that sold it to customers (financial institutions, mostly) who not only had access to the source code, but often times demanded it on contract. Now tell me, what would any of the parties lose if that was released as free software?
What you seem to overlook is that I contribute to several open source projects. I love coding. I also need to eat and have shelter too, though.
I didn't mean my remarks as a personal jab at you, I'm sorry if that's how it came up to you. But I guess I demonstrated that there are perfectly fine ways of doing free software development and get paid for it. Or, at your option you can get another job (more or less profitable than programming) and write free software for love in your free time. Either way, you're still feeding yourself and free software is still getting written. Net result: more (and potentially, better) free software.
Also, a lot of open source code isn't even written by professional developers, but instead by sysadmins and webmasters.
Now here my friend, this is something I totally agree with, and it saddens me that it is so, but I don't see it as such a big problem for two reasons:
RMS has stated many times that it is "immoral" to produce (or even use) non-"free" software. Many other open source zealots have stated that all software should be free. Many also have the belief that copyright is wrong, and the people should be able to distribute software as they please.
Maybe I'm a zealot, but I agree with that. All software should be free. I would never say, though, that all software must be free. Huge semantic difference, right?
Finally, my last point was that software sold as a commodity is a relatively new phenomenon, and there's no guarantee that it's here to stay and will always be a source of immense profit. People will get paid for programming (or tutoring AI robots) in the foreseeable future, though.
PS: looking back on this post (blessed be the preview button) it seems I abused the <b> tag. Here it goes, anyway...
--
Look all around you...
--
What you seem to overlook is the fact that even if there were no financial incentive to developing free software, people would do it (for love of the art, boredom or whatever). It would eventually improve (as it did), drawing the attention of more and more people (as it did), at some point rivalling and overcoming the quality of comercially available mainstream software (as it will, I trust). There's no way to avoid that, except by erecting artificial barriers that prevented people from freely writing software. And then, we'd have a collision with our beloved free speech rights, wouldn't we?
Let's try and think different now, shall we? The main point of your argument is that the development of software, being as expensive as it is, is not viable if that software is freely available, because it undermines the possibilities of its commercial success. But noboody can guarantee that development of software for sale as a commodity will remain a very profitable business. For most of the history of the computer industry (50s-80s) it wasn't. Only in the last 20 years it spawned a multi-billion dollar industry, but there's not indication that this will remain so in the long run. Even Microsoft has its compass pointed at alternative models. Think about it.
Ob your last query, I think it is really a meaningless question: nobody is demanding your work for no compensation. I'd rather view it as requesting your help for a joint effort, the final product being the shared compensation. It's not like you're working alone, riight?
--
You're either misinformed or pretty lacking in imaginations here. I have a couple of Indian friends who'll gladly tell you they not only believe in one God, but actually in a whole pantheon of Them! And if more is indeed better, I guess we non-Hindus are pretty much doomed...
And of course, even within the context of the three main monotheist religions there's a couple questions that set them apart concerning the wishes of the Deity...
--
Ha, another high school kid busy trying to sound informed or knowledgeable on /. Too bad their post don't survive the onslaught of the cluestick.
--
Please, don't take me wrong, I've read this a number of times, mostly from Scandinavian people, but also from people of other nationalities as well, and it puzzles me immensely: are you in Norway or from Norway? I trust the semantic connotations are not too subtle for your comprehension (Scandinavians speaking English a lot better than most Europeans), so I ask of you are they intentional or unthought of? Don you really consider yourself more part of a global grand scheme and just happening to live in Norway? Do you think that notion is widespread around your country? Elsewhere?
I for one, have never seen a good ol' yankee doodle worth his salt claiming he just lives in the US.
--
Yeah, that's the monster... In my experience, it is far worse that 101, though I suppose not many people use it to go from anywhere in the BA to San Jose
--
OTOH, I know vey little about Mainsoft, but if their product is anything like Wind/U, they'll get the same stability and robustness of ColdFusion on Solaris (brrr!). Which, come to think of it, can be an improvement in the case of MS Word .
--
LOL.
But it coulda been worse, cough...El Camino...cough...
--
Wait! He's not really dead, he's just working for the Empire on NT internals... Same end result, though.
--
I have just one thing to say (and please, don't take it personally): you are very naïve about linguistics and the above sentencs only show some common misconceptions that are more realted to prejudice and ignorance than to knowledge of other languages/cultures,
All languages are capable of expressing the whole spectrum of human emotions/thoughts/impressions. It may be expressed in somewhat different shades of orange, so to speak, but the essence of the picture is the same. That's the first lesson of Language 101.
--
The nightmare would really begin when someone from the German branch woul send you an Excel macro in German VBA that would bomb in Portuguese VBA. Shudder...
--
Thus the equivalent of goto in German or Spanish C would be gehnach and vapara. Ugh! Better stick to writing spaghetti code in C.
Then again, all of the above is just MHO and IANAL (not a certified linguist, that is, just a diletante).
--
Not to mention those darn cartoons! Eww! Did I mention I hate anime?
--
I would venture to warn you that most American shows are translated and dubbed in the local languages when aired abroad, but I bet you already knew that, didnt't ya?
--