Haven't you learned anything? Miguel is a big old hype machine. Nothing is different, nothing changed from the anti-KDE days. Only this time it seems to have bitten him in the ass. That's okay though, we have his long reply plastered on/. now, and the hype-machine wins again.
Think of it as Karma Whoring, if you can comprehend that better.
Why else would Miguel start telling us that CLI means Microsoft's Common Language Interface, when we've known for years that CLI means Command Line Interface?
Biggest proof for me that Miguel has sold out, when not only is he selling Microsoft technology to us, he's also selling Microsoft MARKETING to us. Nobody but Microsoft is so good at redefining the tech lingo. (of course there's RMS and "free software" but let's not get into that...)
Of course, you can't have an announcement of Mozilla without a complaint about the slowness of Mozilla development, so here's something one up on that: a link to Joel on Software, so here it is.
It seems like Ximian is latching onto Microsoft to survive. It's not just a gimmick either, Ximian quite recently announced that they had entered the proprietary business with its Exchange Connector.
So is Ximian abandoning the GNU values? All that big talk and fighting words was for naught? Or was it just about garnering public support before pulling the old bait and switch?
And I need to notice that the pre tag is not supported. Sigh.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Last I heard, RMS really hates the moniker "win32" because it has
> the string "win" in it, implying that there's something winning
> about Windows. I suspect he'd like w32 better than win32 for
> what that's worth.
During Emacs 20 development, rms insisted on changing all the elisp
win32-* variables to w32-* for precisely that reason, so it seems he's
happy with w32.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Last I heard, RMS really hates the moniker "win32" because it has
> the string "win" in it, implying that there's something winning
> about Windows. I suspect he'd like w32 better than win32 for
> what that's worth.
During Emacs 20 development, rms insisted on changing all the elisp
win32-* variables to w32-* for precisely that reason, so it seems he's
happy with w32.
Craig
Jesus Christ. Somebody needs to get a life.
This is interesting because there is now major heat between RMS of GNU and Miguel of Ximian. Miguel has even attacked RMS in public once or twice, this was around the glibc flamewar. Miguel even stated he regretted having ever made GNOME part of the GNU project.
Apparently RMS has long been politically maneovering around GNOME. Miguel didn't approve. My guess is this was part of the reason the GNOME Foundation was created.
Well done, TurboLinux, KDE.
on
KDE 2.2.1 Up
·
· Score: 3, Informative
"In response to customer demand, we have made KDE the default desktop environment in the latest release of our Turbolinux Workstation product," said Dino Brusco, VP of Marketing at Turbolinux Inc. "Our customers really appreciate the features and stability that KDE provides and we will be offering this latest version of KDE in an upcoming release of our Turbolinux Server product."
Well, this just just goes to show that all that hard work from the KDE camp has paid off, despite poor advertising and marketing when compared to the competition. Good job all around!
I *am* a Mandrake user. You are obviously not, otherwise you would not make patently false statements that HardDrake is a KDE program. NONE of these Mandrake tools integrate with my desktop. Your message is full of lies, and I don't understand the point of these of lies.
As for Mandrake Forum, I did post my opinion there but the Moderator chose to moderate me down.
Why hasn't Mandrake yet provided KDE versions of the Drake tools? Am I the only one who strongly feels the need for this? As a paying customer I feel it frustrating that I am not being heard. Mandrake, are you listening? Please port those tools to KDE and give your users a choice!
For those who didn't read it through, here's some scoop from the Portable.NET faq:
3.2. Why not co-operate with Mono?
I tried suggesting that we divide up the work to prevent too much duplication of effort, but Mono seems set on re-inventing all of the wheels that I already had several months prior. Mono's idea of co-operation at the moment is "do it our way or no way". Therefore, I will co-operate with Mono when they start co-operating with me.
3.1. Mono
The Mono project that is run by Ximian has many of the same goals as Portable.NET.
Mono is oriented towards building a.NET-capable framework that works well with GNOME. This means that their system is unlikely to work well with any other desktop environment, or with PDA's that don't feature GNOME.
Portable.NET is designed to be more general purpose than that. It has very few dependencies on other libraries so that it can be integrated with any desktop or PDA operating environment.
Mono's C# compiler and other tools are written in C#. While academically interesting, this will incur a severe performance penalty on the toolchain compared to Portable.NET's use of C. It also means that it will be longer before Mono can natively host a.NET development toolchain on Linux.
Future versions of Portable.NET will also support compiling C# to the JVM, which isn't something targeted by Mono as yet.
---------------
I think it is really interesting that Portable.NET intends to target the JVM. Now we are getting somewhere. Also their version of.NET does not create needless desktop dependencies, so more power to them. I am a bit surprised at Ximian's attitude at the whole thing though, where is the logic? To read the full faq go here:
Could it be because Ximian is causing a lot of hype over vaporware? Could it be because Ximian is trying to get other Open Source developers to assist it in wasting time in its goal of finding the holy grail? Could it be because Ximian is more talk than action? Could it be because Ximian is being detrimental to GNOME, if not KDE?
How *much* do we have to read about Mono, a project that only exists in name and hype? If Mono is so good, shut up and show us the code. Instead Mono is nothing but a publicity stunt.
If it's that's the case, then explain how Eazel got Nautilus into GNOME? This was even before Eazel went out of business and people were able to strip out the crap "services" that were built into GNOME 1.4. Evolution and Red Carpet are no doubt going to be very much centerpieces of the next GNOME. Both of these provide dubitable Ximian "services".
I think you have a very naive and incorrect view of how GNOME works. Ximian is pretty much in control. You could have observed the situation when they thought they were under threat by Red Hat's Bonobo2/HUB paper.
People think I'm trolling because I signed my message "a KDE fan". I only signed my message "a KDE fan" because I have written pro-KDE messages in the past and I wanted full disclosure.
However, I was not trolling. My article was genuine.
Part of having a nick like "Karma Sucks" means that I don't care about my Karma. If people don't want to read what I write, that is their problem.
Focus on fixing GNOME so that it can compete with KDE and Windows. You *cannot* win with Microsoft, you are in a position of weakness and disadvantage by default. Microsoft will screw you over at the first chance, and along the way you will have helped bolster the mindshare of its questionable strategy.
You are creating a conflict with your ally Sun by neglecting JAVA. Do not divest your efforts from GNOME. GNOME needs you. Do NOT neglect the ailing GNOME desktop like this.
This is my fair attempt at talking some sense into you. I sincerely hope you prove me wrong so that I won't have to say "I told you so" in a few months.
Just what do you have against Konqueror and Nautilus and Mozilla mentionned in the same article? It's all free software and it all works on Linux. The desktop wars are dead.
Konqueror is one of those projects that is really making a difference for Linux. It is now much easier to refute complaints of outdated browsers and technology on Linux by the Windows sheep.
I am really intrigued by the KDENOX option and I'm just dying to see the screenshot that was supposed to be linked to in this article. The geocities side is linkdead as usual, does someone have a mirror or any other screenshots?
The poor quality debs referred to debs from Vendors, and not to the debs provided by Debian. Making a high quality deb is a lot of work, and often vendors are not experienced enough with Debian or do enough testingt to pull it off.
I believe it's a given that RPM and DEB are almost neck to neck in terms of technical merits. Debian advocates tend to deny this, and go in a loop about the whole thing, I know.
apt-get arguments do not apply here clearly. RPM has the further and important advantage that it works and practically all Linux platforms, now. Even Slackware, in case you're wondering.
You learn something new everyday. As a former Debian user, I was getting pretty pissed off at having to manually install dependencies with RPM all the time. I'd don't at all like the slow and ugly GTK+ interface, I'm a KDE/command line person, and I uninstalled all that stuff.
Now I learn about this "urpmi" thingy and I must say I'm red in face thinking about all the time that I've wasted with rpm. Holy cripes, why doesn't Mandrake inform its users better? Everybody knows about Debian apt-get, Debian advocates never fail to mention it, yet I've never ever heard of urpmi until now. What is wrong with this picture?
Yet Another Clueless Bastard
As Galeon, gets better so does Mozilla. When will Galeon support Flash and all those various plugins out there? Konqueror already does this. Konqueror even has application and component embedding for crying out loud. When Galeon reaches this point, Mozilla will be usable, not to mention that Konqueror is here now.
Slashdot Mirror
Haven't you learned anything? Miguel is a big old hype machine. Nothing is different, nothing changed from the anti-KDE days. Only this time it seems to have bitten him in the ass. That's okay though, we have his long reply plastered on /. now, and the hype-machine wins again.
Think of it as Karma Whoring, if you can comprehend that better.
Why else would Miguel start telling us that CLI means Microsoft's Common Language Interface, when we've known for years that CLI means Command Line Interface?
Biggest proof for me that Miguel has sold out, when not only is he selling Microsoft technology to us, he's also selling Microsoft MARKETING to us. Nobody but Microsoft is so good at redefining the tech lingo. (of course there's RMS and "free software" but let's not get into that...)
Of course, you can't have an announcement of Mozilla without a complaint about the slowness of Mozilla development, so here's something one up on that: a link to Joel on Software, so here it is.
Okay, it's not like me to post one of these lame ass "mod up" articles, but I've been confounded about the issue just as much as the above poster.
Since there is a barely a response to the above article, please consider modding it up for more exposure.
It seems like Ximian is latching onto Microsoft to survive. It's not just a gimmick either, Ximian quite recently announced that they had entered the proprietary business with its Exchange Connector.
So is Ximian abandoning the GNU values? All that big talk and fighting words was for naught? Or was it just about garnering public support before pulling the old bait and switch?
And I need to notice that the pre tag is not supported. Sigh.
Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Last I heard, RMS really hates the moniker "win32" because it has
> the string "win" in it, implying that there's something winning
> about Windows. I suspect he'd like w32 better than win32 for
> what that's worth.
During Emacs 20 development, rms insisted on changing all the elisp
win32-* variables to w32-* for precisely that reason, so it seems he's
happy with w32.
Craig
Ben Pfaff wrote: > Last I heard, RMS really hates the moniker "win32" because it has > the string "win" in it, implying that there's something winning > about Windows. I suspect he'd like w32 better than win32 for > what that's worth. During Emacs 20 development, rms insisted on changing all the elisp win32-* variables to w32-* for precisely that reason, so it seems he's happy with w32. Craig Jesus Christ. Somebody needs to get a life.
This is interesting because there is now major heat between RMS of GNU and Miguel of Ximian. Miguel has even attacked RMS in public once or twice, this was around the glibc flamewar. Miguel even stated he regretted having ever made GNOME part of the GNU project.
Apparently RMS has long been politically maneovering around GNOME. Miguel didn't approve. My guess is this was part of the reason the GNOME Foundation was created.
"In response to customer demand, we have made KDE the default desktop environment in the latest release of our Turbolinux Workstation product," said Dino Brusco, VP of Marketing at Turbolinux Inc. "Our customers really appreciate the features and stability that KDE provides and we will be offering this latest version of KDE in an upcoming release of our Turbolinux Server product."
t ml)
(from: http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-2.2.1.h
Well, this just just goes to show that all that hard work from the KDE camp has paid off, despite poor advertising and marketing when compared to the competition. Good job all around!
Here's my reasoning:
* Any non-trivial choice in the computer world has its pros and cons.
* Magically, Michael Johnson only finds pros in adopting ext3.
Conclusion: Michael Johnson is not fully confronting the issue or being fully objective and upfront.
I *am* a Mandrake user. You are obviously not, otherwise you would not make patently false statements that HardDrake is a KDE program. NONE of these Mandrake tools integrate with my desktop. Your message is full of lies, and I don't understand the point of these of lies.
As for Mandrake Forum, I did post my opinion there but the Moderator chose to moderate me down.
Why hasn't Mandrake yet provided KDE versions of the Drake tools? Am I the only one who strongly feels the need for this? As a paying customer I feel it frustrating that I am not being heard. Mandrake, are you listening? Please port those tools to KDE and give your users a choice!
For those who didn't read it through, here's some scoop from the Portable.NET faq:
.NET-capable framework that works well with GNOME. This means that their system is unlikely to work well with any other desktop environment, or with PDA's that don't feature GNOME.
.NET development toolchain on Linux.
.NET does not create needless desktop dependencies, so more power to them. I am a bit surprised at Ximian's attitude at the whole thing though, where is the logic? To read the full faq go here:
3.2. Why not co-operate with Mono?
I tried suggesting that we divide up the work to prevent too much duplication of effort, but Mono seems set on re-inventing all of the wheels that I already had several months prior. Mono's idea of co-operation at the moment is "do it our way or no way". Therefore, I will co-operate with Mono when they start co-operating with me.
3.1. Mono
The Mono project that is run by Ximian has many of the same goals as Portable.NET.
Mono is oriented towards building a
Portable.NET is designed to be more general purpose than that. It has very few dependencies on other libraries so that it can be integrated with any desktop or PDA operating environment.
Mono's C# compiler and other tools are written in C#. While academically interesting, this will incur a severe performance penalty on the toolchain compared to Portable.NET's use of C. It also means that it will be longer before Mono can natively host a
Future versions of Portable.NET will also support compiling C# to the JVM, which isn't something targeted by Mono as yet.
---------------
I think it is really interesting that Portable.NET intends to target the JVM. Now we are getting somewhere. Also their version of
http://www.southern-storm.com.au/pnet_faq.html
Could it be because Ximian is causing a lot of hype over vaporware? Could it be because Ximian is trying to get other Open Source developers to assist it in wasting time in its goal of finding the holy grail? Could it be because Ximian is more talk than action? Could it be because Ximian is being detrimental to GNOME, if not KDE?
How *much* do we have to read about Mono, a project that only exists in name and hype? If Mono is so good, shut up and show us the code. Instead Mono is nothing but a publicity stunt.
If it's that's the case, then explain how Eazel got Nautilus into GNOME? This was even before Eazel went out of business and people were able to strip out the crap "services" that were built into GNOME 1.4. Evolution and Red Carpet are no doubt going to be very much centerpieces of the next GNOME. Both of these provide dubitable Ximian "services".
I think you have a very naive and incorrect view of how GNOME works. Ximian is pretty much in control. You could have observed the situation when they thought they were under threat by Red Hat's Bonobo2/HUB paper.
People think I'm trolling because I signed my message "a KDE fan". I only signed my message "a KDE fan" because I have written pro-KDE messages in the past and I wanted full disclosure.
However, I was not trolling. My article was genuine.
Part of having a nick like "Karma Sucks" means that I don't care about my Karma. If people don't want to read what I write, that is their problem.
Focus on fixing GNOME so that it can compete with KDE and Windows. You *cannot* win with Microsoft, you are in a position of weakness and disadvantage by default. Microsoft will screw you over at the first chance, and along the way you will have helped bolster the mindshare of its questionable strategy.
You are creating a conflict with your ally Sun by neglecting JAVA. Do not divest your efforts from GNOME. GNOME needs you. Do NOT neglect the ailing GNOME desktop like this.
This is my fair attempt at talking some sense into you. I sincerely hope you prove me wrong so that I won't have to say "I told you so" in a few months.
-- A KDE Fan.
My apologies, if this is true. I had just discovered the website.
Just what do you have against Konqueror and Nautilus and Mozilla mentionned in the same article? It's all free software and it all works on Linux. The desktop wars are dead.
check it out -- apparently it's based on Konqueror too.
Konqueror is one of those projects that is really making a difference for Linux. It is now much easier to refute complaints of outdated browsers and technology on Linux by the Windows sheep.
I am really intrigued by the KDENOX option and I'm just dying to see the screenshot that was supposed to be linked to in this article. The geocities side is linkdead as usual, does someone have a mirror or any other screenshots?
The poor quality debs referred to debs from Vendors, and not to the debs provided by Debian. Making a high quality deb is a lot of work, and often vendors are not experienced enough with Debian or do enough testingt to pull it off.
I believe it's a given that RPM and DEB are almost neck to neck in terms of technical merits. Debian advocates tend to deny this, and go in a loop about the whole thing, I know.
apt-get arguments do not apply here clearly. RPM has the further and important advantage that it works and practically all Linux platforms, now. Even Slackware, in case you're wondering.
Besides, what's your beef with Britney Spears?
You learn something new everyday. As a former Debian user, I was getting pretty pissed off at having to manually install dependencies with RPM all the time. I'd don't at all like the slow and ugly GTK+ interface, I'm a KDE/command line person, and I uninstalled all that stuff. Now I learn about this "urpmi" thingy and I must say I'm red in face thinking about all the time that I've wasted with rpm. Holy cripes, why doesn't Mandrake inform its users better? Everybody knows about Debian apt-get, Debian advocates never fail to mention it, yet I've never ever heard of urpmi until now. What is wrong with this picture? Yet Another Clueless Bastard
As Galeon, gets better so does Mozilla. When will Galeon support Flash and all those various plugins out there? Konqueror already does this. Konqueror even has application and component embedding for crying out loud. When Galeon reaches this point, Mozilla will be usable, not to mention that Konqueror is here now.