About five years ago, I set up a linux server at my godfather's business, and it's been running like a tank since then. It replaced an NT machine that required constant fixing and administration on his end. Since he's not the most savvy user, this was a constant source of complaint for him.
The linux machine grew with his business, and was only recently replaced (due to a motherboard failure). When I asked him what kind of OS he wanted on the new server, the choice was clear: Linux. Since it requires so little maintenance (none from him and only remote administration from me) he's been one of the most vocal Linux advocates in the small business community, and had several business in our area come in to see how well Linux works with their existing technologies.
Did we have trouble? Yeah... ACT didn't like to be on a SAMBA share (until I found out it needed oplock tweaking), and getting tech support from his ISP was troublesome, but once everything was set up, there was nothing more to do.
Small businesses often can't afford to have a full time IT person, so this kind of set it and forget it proposition makes great business sense.
Re:Java is finished for most open source work
on
Java vs .NET
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· Score: 1
Now, I would agree that Java is pretty well toast on the desktop, barring a toolkit revolution.
SWT brings native speed to java and maintains cross platform nature . It's amazing how fast applications that utilize it in lieu of AWT or Swing can be. Eclipse utilizes SWT and it's damn fast.
I live in Cleveland, and while we were dark, the outlying suburbs had power, and Columbus certainly had power. Why is it dark in the after picture? Clouds?
I think you mean fascist, America is many things, but Communist isn't one of them.
Though I guess the argument could be made that the results of both of those political ideologies is a brutally repressive, invasive and hostile regime.
Ummm... I work at officemax.com, and I have to tell you it's not java-based. It's on BroadVision which is just about as far from Java server pages as you can get.
Just because a page has a.jsp extension doesn't mean it runs on java server pages.
I haven't talked to ryan since I graduated in Spring of 99, but the last thing he said to me was.
"Con-grad-u-ations"... and then he got this shit eating grin on his face, like he thought of something really clever.
For what it's worth, when I showed him my linux box, he really liked it, probably because it had a monstrous 21" monitor, but I never had him program in X. He did show interest in porting geiss to linux, but, at the time, xmms (then x11amp) had poor plugin support. Plus, we were taking CIS 676, and were constantly studying. About the apartment: That's really sick, but that landlord (Jack?) was such an ass. I remember one time our fuse box was literally sparking, and he came in and said "just turn off the circuit". After a month of paying our rent in escrow, he fixed it.
I'll second that. Ryan lived three apartments down from me in college, and once offered to teach me assembler in exchange for teaching him linux. I eventually saw the source code and my mind was completely boggled.
Ryan is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and a pretty cool guy as well. If I remember correctly, the guy never got an A- in his life.
By the way, did you live at 64 northwood in apt A? That apartment was soooo cool. I was very envious of Ryan and Vince. I lived in apartment D, and it was a shithole.
Why do I feel the need to defend java on slashdot? Here I go again:
Java is slower than C, yet less powerful than C++.
Yeah, that's a testable statement. Most of java's use is network-bound programming, where pure speed isn't an issue, but it's excellent networking library is a benefit. No one is coding an OS in java.Add to this the fact that java 1.4 is on part (except for GUIs) with C++, and you have no speed issue.
Java is portible but so is C#, C, C++. Java is binary portable which is a huge advantage. I can take compiled code from one architecture, and run it on another. Do that in C or C++. Hell, you can't even run a complete C# program in solaris now, so much for the common run time.
Java currently doesnt seem to be a match for C#
Is that why C# is an almost exact syntatic copy of java? Is that why the architectures and security models are almost the same? Which language has more users now? Which actually has deployed code running in production?
Java is ok, but i have yet to see a successful project written in java.
Have you heard of Tomcat? That's a moderately successful java project. Also, many real businesses use java on the web layers. I guess those don't count as 'successful projects', but they should count for something. The fact that there are relatively few java projects has more to do with the open source community being stand-offish regarding java, and not with language faults.Just posted on slashdot a couple of weeks ago: Root Node Live, which is a java project (brought to you by konspire) helps people trade jam-band music.
I fail to see how a declaration "String str = null" is any safer than a declaration "String str".
You've used this serveral times as an example. You're right, assigning a string to null is not safer than leaving it uninitialized. However, that just gets around the 'uninitialized variable' error from the compiler. You should initialize it with something meaningful, or at least "". That would be more safe, and would be what the compiler wants you to do. This error has saved my butt more times than I care to remember, so don't knock it.
If you want to use variable arguments, pass in a vector or a list. There are ways to make java do what you want to do, they might not be like those in C or C++.
I think what people are talking about is the total number of Apache servers VS. the total number of IIS servers on the Internet. NetCraft surveys everyone, even people on cable modem connections, so yes, there are more Apache installations out there. It's just that someone who has Apache is either more qualified to run a server (if they have the windows version, they must have downloaded and installed it), or if they run a unix/linux/BSD/whatever environment, they are used to patching regularly.
Ok... let's all calm down here.
You stated repeatedly that you started out in BASIC then to PASCAL...etc. Your code snippets show that.
Your function getNameAndAge(&name,&age) demonstrates poor cohesion (cohesion is the amount a method or object makes sense). Why should name and age be tied together?
You could just have easily called it GetNameAndAgeAndAddressAndZipAndState(&name,&age,& address,&zip,&state);
Where do you stop?
You should have a Person object with accessor and mutator (get and set) methods for all its class-level variables.
I actually had to change some of my code, when switching Java Servlets from platform to platform - Vector.add doesn't work in Tomcat, apparently... It's Vector.addElement
You were developing on a 1.2 virtual machine and moved it to a 1.1 virtual machine.
Other than this, you make some sense. However, I think your argument is fundamentally flawed. Universities teach Computer Science, and they will continue to do so. You want them to teach raw programming, and I believe they would be derelict in their duties if they did. My computer science education taught me how to "Program". They taught me the fundamental concepts that most programming languages share. These concepts won't change for a long time. The language they use might, but the concepts stay constant. I learned pascal,modula-2, SPARC assembler, C, C++ and Java. I believe that if you want to train a bunch of Coders in a Trade School type setting, then by all means, teach C or C++. If you want to teach concepts of OO in a University, use Java. That way, the student can learn about encapsulation without fighting memory management and pointers. A University should also offer courses about memory management and lower level things, but Beginning students should not be exposed to that.
I have been using mozilla for almost a year and a half now. (It renders much like IE, so debugging web pages is easy using Moz + Netscape) This release is far and away the best release I have seen. I was very impressed at the speed improvements made to the browser and the JVM as well. I haven't used Konq yet ( I'll try it now that my DSL is back up) but this mozilla is surely going to replace Netscape for me. (That is if the frames navigation bug has been fixed).
Slashdot Mirror
About five years ago, I set up a linux server at my godfather's business, and it's been running like a tank since then. It replaced an NT machine that required constant fixing and administration on his end. Since he's not the most savvy user, this was a constant source of complaint for him.
The linux machine grew with his business, and was only recently replaced (due to a motherboard failure). When I asked him what kind of OS he wanted on the new server, the choice was clear: Linux. Since it requires so little maintenance (none from him and only remote administration from me) he's been one of the most vocal Linux advocates in the small business community, and had several business in our area come in to see how well Linux works with their existing technologies.
Did we have trouble? Yeah... ACT didn't like to be on a SAMBA share (until I found out it needed oplock tweaking), and getting tech support from his ISP was troublesome, but once everything was set up, there was nothing more to do.
Small businesses often can't afford to have a full time IT person, so this kind of set it and forget it proposition makes great business sense.
Welcome to the revolution.
SWT brings native speed to java and maintains cross platform nature . It's amazing how fast applications that utilize it in lieu of AWT or Swing can be. Eclipse utilizes SWT and it's damn fast.
I live in Cleveland, and while we were dark, the outlying suburbs had power, and Columbus certainly had power. Why is it dark in the after picture? Clouds?
Who I share a name with, why, oh why, did it have to be this jerk?
Didn't the same thing happen in Star Trek III?
The scientists better watch out, because we know how fast those things can mutate.
Resolve?!? You lucky bastard!
I went to OSU (class of '99) and had to code in Modula 2
We were the last group that had to code in this hackneyed pseudo-Object oriented language.
I remember thinking that the resolve people were lucky. I guess I was wrong.
I think you mean fascist, America is many things, but Communist isn't one of them.
Though I guess the argument could be made that the results of both of those political ideologies is a brutally repressive, invasive and hostile regime.
Ummm... I work at officemax.com, and I have to tell you it's not java-based. It's on BroadVision which is just about as far from Java server pages as you can get.
.jsp extension doesn't mean it runs on java server pages.
Just because a page has a
Good point, but who said I was executing the code on a computer? :)
If you use paper, the loop won't terminate, but I think you know that.
Next time, I'll actually debug the code I post to slashdot. You guys are a bunch of nitpickers.:)
"if a limited time is extended for a limited time then it remains a limited time,"
Yeah, guys, and this loop terminates:
int limitedTime = 14;
for ( int i=0;i<limitedTime;i++) {
System.out.println("Copyright Protected");
limitedTime += 50;
}
fools.
If I pay for a meal, and don't eat all of it, then, yes, I can feed it to whomever I want
I haven't talked to ryan since I graduated in Spring of 99, but the last thing he said to me was.
"Con-grad-u-ations"... and then he got this shit eating grin on his face, like he thought of something really clever.
For what it's worth, when I showed him my linux box, he really liked it, probably because it had a monstrous 21" monitor, but I never had him program in X. He did show interest in porting geiss to linux, but, at the time, xmms (then x11amp) had poor plugin support.
Plus, we were taking CIS 676, and were constantly studying.
About the apartment: That's really sick, but that landlord (Jack?) was such an ass. I remember one time our fuse box was literally sparking, and he came in and said "just turn off the circuit". After a month of paying our rent in escrow, he fixed it.
Did you live there from Au98-Sp99?
I'll second that. Ryan lived three apartments down from me in college, and once offered to teach me assembler in exchange for teaching him linux. I eventually saw the source code and my mind was completely boggled.
Ryan is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and a pretty cool guy as well. If I remember correctly, the guy never got an A- in his life.
By the way, did you live at 64 northwood in apt A? That apartment was soooo cool. I was very envious of Ryan and Vince. I lived in apartment D, and it was a shithole.
actually, I think they were talking about working in a totally windowless office.
Well, at least I'm secure... pasty white, but secure.
Why do I feel the need to defend java on slashdot? Here I go again:
Java is slower than C, yet less powerful than C++.
Yeah, that's a testable statement. Most of java's use is network-bound programming, where pure speed isn't an issue, but it's excellent networking library is a benefit. No one is coding an OS in java.Add to this the fact that java 1.4 is on part (except for GUIs) with C++, and you have no speed issue.
Java is portible but so is C#, C, C++.
Java is binary portable which is a huge advantage. I can take compiled code from one architecture, and run it on another. Do that in C or C++. Hell, you can't even run a complete C# program in solaris now, so much for the common run time.
Java currently doesnt seem to be a match for C#
Is that why C# is an almost exact syntatic copy of java? Is that why the architectures and security models are almost the same? Which language has more users now? Which actually has deployed code running in production?
Java is ok, but i have yet to see a successful project written in java.
Have you heard of Tomcat? That's a moderately successful java project. Also, many real businesses use java on the web layers. I guess those don't count as 'successful projects', but they should count for something. The fact that there are relatively few java projects has more to do with the open source community being stand-offish regarding java, and not with language faults.Just posted on slashdot a couple of weeks ago: Root Node Live, which is a java project (brought to you by konspire) helps people trade jam-band music.
I fail to see how a declaration "String str = null" is any safer than a declaration "String str".
You've used this serveral times as an example. You're right, assigning a string to null is not safer than leaving it uninitialized. However, that just gets around the 'uninitialized variable' error from the compiler. You should initialize it with something meaningful, or at least "". That would be more safe, and would be what the compiler wants you to do. This error has saved my butt more times than I care to remember, so don't knock it.
If you want to use variable arguments, pass in a vector or a list. There are ways to make java do what you want to do, they might not be like those in C or C++.
I think what people are talking about is the total number of Apache servers VS. the total number of IIS servers on the Internet. NetCraft surveys everyone, even people on cable modem connections, so yes, there are more Apache installations out there. It's just that someone who has Apache is either more qualified to run a server (if they have the windows version, they must have downloaded and installed it), or if they run a unix/linux/BSD/whatever environment, they are used to patching regularly.
Just my two cents.
When asked about falling user numbers, Mr Barry pointed to falling record sales in the US generally© He added: "We have been complying with the court injunction©©© As we move into the new service, hopefully we will be able to jettison that baggage, hopefully we will be able to move forward©"
The falling numbers would have nothing to do with the fact that there's hardly any music on napster anymore, right?
I like to search for live Phish stuff ¥which is perfectly legal since you can't charge money for it but for some reason, it's all blocked, making napster completely useless to me© They went with an overly broad filtering method, and killed the service©
Well, on to freenet and gnutella©
Unisis forgot the whole "Charging everyone for completely obvious patents" consequence thingie©
Ok... let's all calm down here. You stated repeatedly that you started out in BASIC then to PASCAL...etc. Your code snippets show that. Your function getNameAndAge(&name,&age) demonstrates poor cohesion (cohesion is the amount a method or object makes sense). Why should name and age be tied together? You could just have easily called it GetNameAndAgeAndAddressAndZipAndState(&name,&age,& address,&zip,&state);
Where do you stop?
You should have a Person object with accessor and mutator (get and set) methods for all its class-level variables.
I actually had to change some of my code, when switching Java Servlets from platform to platform - Vector.add doesn't work in Tomcat, apparently... It's Vector.addElement
You were developing on a 1.2 virtual machine and moved it to a 1.1 virtual machine.
Other than this, you make some sense. However, I think your argument is fundamentally flawed. Universities teach Computer Science, and they will continue to do so. You want them to teach raw programming, and I believe they would be derelict in their duties if they did. My computer science education taught me how to "Program". They taught me the fundamental concepts that most programming languages share. These concepts won't change for a long time. The language they use might, but the concepts stay constant. I learned pascal,modula-2, SPARC assembler, C, C++ and Java. I believe that if you want to train a bunch of Coders in a Trade School type setting, then by all means, teach C or C++. If you want to teach concepts of OO in a University, use Java. That way, the student can learn about encapsulation without fighting memory management and pointers. A University should also offer courses about memory management and lower level things, but Beginning students should not be exposed to that.
There are NOT that many people who will use Java, in their professional lives©
There are currently 5 Million java developers worldwide© Java is the main language used for eCommerce© Do you want your web site to leak memory?
Applets are a pain in the ass, because every browser / version on the planet behaves differently©
©©©and this is Java's fault? That's the browser's fault that java behaves differently, not the language© By the way, Mozilla's applet support is pretty nice© This brings up another problem: Applets are hardly used anymore© Java was clearly a failure in this area ¥because of buggy browser support so it's focus has been running eCommerce and enterprise wide applications©
Memory management© Real, professional programmers need to know how to manage memory, both in RAM, and on a physical medium©
Maybe, but when dealing with eCommerce or enterprise apps, additional hardware ¥to compensate for GC is still cheaper than programming time© I'm sure assembly programmers complained that C didn't give access to the registers and that activation records take too long to create©
Passing by reference© In order to pass values by reference in Java,
You obviously have no idea how java works© Changing values passed into a method is not OO practice, and should be discouraged©
And since your entire Java code is likely to be in one class
Oh no©©© Please don't code anywhere near my app© I hope all your C code isn't in one file©
Why are there integer and Integer? double and Double?
to avoid something like this:
Java is not pure Object Oriented
©©©and C++ is? You can write completely not OO c++© Try making one java program without defining at least one class©
HAVE TO use them both just shows that it's a horrible class library
Oh yeah, you have ints, and that negates all of the other objects in the class library©©© Come on© Java has one of the most useful class libraries of any language© Let's say the fact that you have to use ints might be a little sloppy© Dont' negate the class library though© It also saves you from oh, overriding the shift operator to become an io operator ¥"<<" a la C++©
is NOT cross-platform
I've had no problems developing in Linux and moving my executables to solaris or NT©
Some versions of Java crash when you ASK THEM WHAT VERSION THEY ARE!!!
This is a low blow© In RedHat 7©0, the vm was broken due to the new C libraries© RedHat shipped the wrong VM, yet it's somehow the language's fault that it didn't dynamically re-compile itself©
Java is a very nice, high-level language; while it may not be suitable for beginners, it provides a lot of things that make it useful to people who want to get things done in business©
I have been using mozilla for almost a year and a half now. (It renders much like IE, so debugging web pages is easy using Moz + Netscape) This release is far and away the best release I have seen. I was very impressed at the speed improvements made to the browser and the JVM as well. I haven't used Konq yet ( I'll try it now that my DSL is back up) but this mozilla is surely going to replace Netscape for me. (That is if the frames navigation bug has been fixed).
It's that good.
_underSCORE
I'd say they implemented the instruction perfectly.
_underSCORE
...actually, I'm at work.
Thanks to NorthPoint going down, my DSL modem is 100% secure...
...it's 100% useless, but totally secure.
Two weeks without Internet access and still surviving.
-_underSCORE