Yep. There's been lots of speculation (from both longs and shorts) that Tesla would do this. It's a pretty obvious decision which lets them give the tax credit to tens of thousands more customers. It'll make their Q2 a bit worse, of course, but all that will get offset into Q3.
Their Q3 sales numbers are going to be massive - both having a high production rate, and stockpiled deliveries going out.
Yeah, but Europe and the rest of the world have to wait:P I'm going to be waiting until at least Q1, since that's when the Eurospec goes into production. Could be worse; left-side-of-the-road countries aren't supposed to get theirs until Q3.
Nice that they moved up the schedule on the standard pack though. Giga has really come uncorked. Performance is way out of my budget, but a standard pack plus AWD would be a killer vehicle for the price. We still don't know what the 0-60 on it will be, but if it's a similar 0,6s drop as in LR, then that'd be 4,9s for a $40k vehicle (which I won't have to pay our huge VAT on, and which will save me ~$3k in fuel costs per year) with some pretty nice standard features. Still not sure whether air suspension will be worth it. And there's only one thing from PUP that I wish wasn't bundled (I really want that glass roof.... even though it's not really practical, as it conducts heat more than a headliner).
No. Flashing at them, then beeping at them, then constantly incessantly beeping at them, and then ultimately stopping their trip and revoking their AP privileges. Pretending that this is somehow equivalent to some instant "Here You Go!" handoff, or that this is a situation that actually occurs in the real world, is truly an impressive strawman. Have fun knocking it down on your own.
..while you eat at the only restaurant available around the charging station. FIFY.
Usually more than one, but regardless you seem to be of the strange notion that you have to stop at every Supercharger, rather than whatever one you want.
So you're saying that you think drivers are just going to sit there fiddling with their phone while the car starts beeping at them, then starts beeping incessantly at them, then outright stops their trip (and punishes them by revoking AP privilages) while beeping incessantly at them?
Yeah. Sure. This totally happens, and is totally not concern trolling.
It's simple. If you demand the same level of attention to the road that a normal driver applies, but in addition to human senses and attention you now have computer senses and attention, you're a lot safer. Or you can tune down the required level of attention - by arbitrarily small increments - and reduce (but not eliminate) the required level of human attentiveness, at a cost of putting more of the onus on the vehicle. There's a balance to be struck, but that balance is starting from a pretty indisputably superior position (human senses / reasoning (at normal attention levels) *plus* vehiclular senses / constant attention), at no extra penalty to the driver.
Simply not the case. Unlike a gas car, an EV starts every day with a full (to whatever level you set) charge; there's never any "Oh, dang, I need to stop by the gas station on the way". On long trips, it charges while you eat.
Meanwhile, in the real world, you'd find (if you actually hung out with Tesla owners) that when people get their Tesla, they tend to drive it more than the vehicle that it replaced, not less. For multiple reasons. One, it's a new car; they want to drive it. Two, it's a fun car, which reinforces #1. People often go on road trips in them. And three, it's cheaper to operate. The consequence of this is that multiple car households try to put as much distance on the Tesla as possible and minimize the distance spent driving their other vehicle.
And if you want to talk about demographics, EVs are most popular among people who own homes, not people who rent apartments / condos. Aka, the suburbs, not downtown.
As for whether people tend to use AP more or less in certain situations, that's irrelevant. AP isn't self driving; it's a combination of a human and the vehicle, and the result that matters is how the two interact. If the human - in driving 1/3 to 1/2 of the average vehicle's distance - does so in cases that AP handles best... well, good.
But trying to break apart AP and non-AP is beside the point. Associated Pres is trying to portray Teslas as dangerous. The numbers they gave to "prove their case" do precisely the opposite.
No. What happens is that the car demands they take control by beeping and flashing... more aggressively... then constantly... slowing down, (eventually, although not at present) pulling over, putting the hazards on, and stopping.
One additional thing that Tesla does - which no other driver assist systems do - is punish "misbehaving" drivers, disabling autopilot for the rest of the trip.
Oh, come on, it's not like there's a large number of people out there who collectively stand to lose over 10 billion dollars if Tesla's stock rises into the lower to mid 300s due to a short squeeze...
No, the car did not run out of juice (ever), and it was a blown fuse, which only disabled part of the braking power. Indeed, the BBC has admitted that the "running out of charge" event was staged.
The court rulings related to Teslas lawsuit never disagreed with Tesla's claim that Top Gear staged the events. They ruled that Tesla had failed to show material losses, and that a reasonable person would not believe that what happens on Top Gear is not embellished (something I think is false, but that's what they ruled).
Beyond the fakery, then there's the deliberate distortions. Like going on about how the car only went a fraction of its rated range. Ignoring that it still had a 20% charge left when they decided to fake the "dead battery" and push it off the track, what they did would apply to any car. You think you can take your car to the track and drive foot down nonstop and get the same mileage as you get in a steady cruise? But they were trying to give the impression that you only go a short distance in the vehicle, which was simply not in any way, shape or form true.
A quick search for Telsa deaths suggests that ALL the fatalities (of people in Teslas) have been when autopilot was running.
Huh? Did you miss the "2016 NHTSA fatal crash data"? That was the number of deaths in one year in the US. Not total.
The number of deaths related to AP in the US is:
* Williston, Florida (May 7, 2016) - side of a white truck
* Mountain View, California (March 23, 2018) - concrete barrier missing the crash attenuator
Of the deaths in 2016, only 1 in 5 were related to Autopilot. According to Tesla, between 1/3rd and 1/2 of all Tesla miles are driven on Autopilot.
Tesla has not been calling AP "self-driving" - you're thinking of Mercedes, describing their awful Autopilot-wannabe. Tesla goes through huge lengths to point out that it's not self driving - to the point that they sell two separate packages, "Enhanced Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving", and the latter tells you that it is not available yet - so that it's physically impossible to think that your car is "full self driving", because either you didn't choose that option, or you didn't receive it.
Contrary to popular myth, AP accidents are rarely from "newbies who mistakenly thought their car was self driving". They're overwhelmingly from experienced users who've had AP for a long time. They get overconfindent in their car's abilities and stop paying attention, just doing things like using their cell phone and only stopping to occasionally grab the wheel so the car won't harass them. Newbies are generally paranoid and hypervigilant.
Musk has not clarified exactly what it was about eye tracking that he thought was not ready for prime time, but I hope it gets remedied and implemented (Model 3 already has the requisite driver-facing camera). If the driver's attention can be ensured, I think it's pretty indisputable that "vehicular sensors and constant attention" plus "human senses and reasoning" is going to be by far the safest option. But you need to ensure that the human is actually paying attention to the road. Requiring torque on the steering wheel is good (better than just a pressure sensor), but not enough.
The Associated Press defended their news coverage Friday, arguing that the facts show that "not all Tesla crashes end the same way." They also fact-check Elon Musk's claim that "probability of fatality is much lower in a Tesla," reporting that it's impossible to verify since Tesla won't release the number of miles driven by their cars or the number of fatalities. "There have been at least three already this year and a check of 2016 NHTSA fatal crash data -- the most recent year available -- shows five deaths in Tesla vehicles.
And? That's their defense? At the start of 2016 there were 69k Teslas on US roads; at the end, 110k. Average of ~90k. There were 113 million registered cars on US roads in 2016, and 37461 deaths, or 1 in 3000 cars. 90k Teslas on average with 5 deaths means 1 in 18000 Teslas.
This is how AP defends itself?
Seriously, what sort of argument is "not all Tesla crashes end the same way" to begin with? Wait a minute, you're telling me that Teslas aren't invincible? OMG, I guess the star wore off, that explains why it's not flashing anymore!
The reality is that the more "micro" the state, the more you can expect them to become a haven for "Bad Things(TM)". Think of all of the Fritzls and the like you'd have when people feel free that there's no authority out there to stop them. Any crime you can imagine, expect it to happen abundantly when the group size is small and there's reason to feel confident in a lack of repercussions.
Floating microstates used to be common on the high seas, where a group of like-minded people decided that they had no interest in the laws and rules imposed on them by outside authorities, and that they were going to do whatever they wanted, in their own rational self-interest. These were known as "pirate ships".
Slashdot Mirror
Yep. There's been lots of speculation (from both longs and shorts) that Tesla would do this. It's a pretty obvious decision which lets them give the tax credit to tens of thousands more customers. It'll make their Q2 a bit worse, of course, but all that will get offset into Q3.
Their Q3 sales numbers are going to be massive - both having a high production rate, and stockpiled deliveries going out.
Yeah, but Europe and the rest of the world have to wait :P I'm going to be waiting until at least Q1, since that's when the Eurospec goes into production. Could be worse; left-side-of-the-road countries aren't supposed to get theirs until Q3.
Nice that they moved up the schedule on the standard pack though. Giga has really come uncorked. Performance is way out of my budget, but a standard pack plus AWD would be a killer vehicle for the price. We still don't know what the 0-60 on it will be, but if it's a similar 0,6s drop as in LR, then that'd be 4,9s for a $40k vehicle (which I won't have to pay our huge VAT on, and which will save me ~$3k in fuel costs per year) with some pretty nice standard features. Still not sure whether air suspension will be worth it. And there's only one thing from PUP that I wish wasn't bundled (I really want that glass roof.... even though it's not really practical, as it conducts heat more than a headliner).
From what, exactly?
Huh. Just off the presses.
Tesla cuts Model 3 delivery delays for new orders in half as production ramp improves
No. Flashing at them, then beeping at them, then constantly incessantly beeping at them, and then ultimately stopping their trip and revoking their AP privileges. Pretending that this is somehow equivalent to some instant "Here You Go!" handoff, or that this is a situation that actually occurs in the real world, is truly an impressive strawman. Have fun knocking it down on your own.
And your example of making the road more dangerous is a fictional circumstance. That's known as concern trolling.
Usually more than one, but regardless you seem to be of the strange notion that you have to stop at every Supercharger, rather than whatever one you want.
So you're saying that you think drivers are just going to sit there fiddling with their phone while the car starts beeping at them, then starts beeping incessantly at them, then outright stops their trip (and punishes them by revoking AP privilages) while beeping incessantly at them?
Yeah. Sure. This totally happens, and is totally not concern trolling.
It's simple. If you demand the same level of attention to the road that a normal driver applies, but in addition to human senses and attention you now have computer senses and attention, you're a lot safer. Or you can tune down the required level of attention - by arbitrarily small increments - and reduce (but not eliminate) the required level of human attentiveness, at a cost of putting more of the onus on the vehicle. There's a balance to be struck, but that balance is starting from a pretty indisputably superior position (human senses / reasoning (at normal attention levels) *plus* vehiclular senses / constant attention), at no extra penalty to the driver.
Simply not the case. Unlike a gas car, an EV starts every day with a full (to whatever level you set) charge; there's never any "Oh, dang, I need to stop by the gas station on the way". On long trips, it charges while you eat.
Meanwhile, in the real world, you'd find (if you actually hung out with Tesla owners) that when people get their Tesla, they tend to drive it more than the vehicle that it replaced, not less. For multiple reasons. One, it's a new car; they want to drive it. Two, it's a fun car, which reinforces #1. People often go on road trips in them. And three, it's cheaper to operate. The consequence of this is that multiple car households try to put as much distance on the Tesla as possible and minimize the distance spent driving their other vehicle.
And if you want to talk about demographics, EVs are most popular among people who own homes, not people who rent apartments / condos. Aka, the suburbs, not downtown.
As for whether people tend to use AP more or less in certain situations, that's irrelevant. AP isn't self driving; it's a combination of a human and the vehicle, and the result that matters is how the two interact. If the human - in driving 1/3 to 1/2 of the average vehicle's distance - does so in cases that AP handles best... well, good.
But trying to break apart AP and non-AP is beside the point. Associated Pres is trying to portray Teslas as dangerous. The numbers they gave to "prove their case" do precisely the opposite.
No. What happens is that the car demands they take control by beeping and flashing... more aggressively... then constantly... slowing down, (eventually, although not at present) pulling over, putting the hazards on, and stopping.
One additional thing that Tesla does - which no other driver assist systems do - is punish "misbehaving" drivers, disabling autopilot for the rest of the trip.
Right. So if I understand you correctly, the BBC itself was lying when they admitted to their own fakery? Is that the argument you're going with here?
Well, at least you'll be able to console yourself with the fact that the car was purchased with you and your fellow shorts' money.
And then eye tracking will detect the loss of attention, make the driver take control, and it's no harm, no foul.
No results found.
Well, maybe they're calling it that somewhere not on Tesla's website? Let's see... Yep, found an entry:
Oh, come on, it's not like there's a large number of people out there who collectively stand to lose over 10 billion dollars if Tesla's stock rises into the lower to mid 300s due to a short squeeze...
No, the car did not run out of juice (ever), and it was a blown fuse, which only disabled part of the braking power. Indeed, the BBC has admitted that the "running out of charge" event was staged.
The court rulings related to Teslas lawsuit never disagreed with Tesla's claim that Top Gear staged the events. They ruled that Tesla had failed to show material losses, and that a reasonable person would not believe that what happens on Top Gear is not embellished (something I think is false, but that's what they ruled).
Beyond the fakery, then there's the deliberate distortions. Like going on about how the car only went a fraction of its rated range. Ignoring that it still had a 20% charge left when they decided to fake the "dead battery" and push it off the track, what they did would apply to any car. You think you can take your car to the track and drive foot down nonstop and get the same mileage as you get in a steady cruise? But they were trying to give the impression that you only go a short distance in the vehicle, which was simply not in any way, shape or form true.
Huh? Did you miss the "2016 NHTSA fatal crash data"? That was the number of deaths in one year in the US. Not total.
The number of deaths related to AP in the US is:
* Williston, Florida (May 7, 2016) - side of a white truck
* Mountain View, California (March 23, 2018) - concrete barrier missing the crash attenuator
Of the deaths in 2016, only 1 in 5 were related to Autopilot.
According to Tesla, between 1/3rd and 1/2 of all Tesla miles are driven on Autopilot.
Tesla has not been calling AP "self-driving" - you're thinking of Mercedes, describing their awful Autopilot-wannabe. Tesla goes through huge lengths to point out that it's not self driving - to the point that they sell two separate packages, "Enhanced Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving", and the latter tells you that it is not available yet - so that it's physically impossible to think that your car is "full self driving", because either you didn't choose that option, or you didn't receive it.
Contrary to popular myth, AP accidents are rarely from "newbies who mistakenly thought their car was self driving". They're overwhelmingly from experienced users who've had AP for a long time. They get overconfindent in their car's abilities and stop paying attention, just doing things like using their cell phone and only stopping to occasionally grab the wheel so the car won't harass them. Newbies are generally paranoid and hypervigilant.
Musk has not clarified exactly what it was about eye tracking that he thought was not ready for prime time, but I hope it gets remedied and implemented (Model 3 already has the requisite driver-facing camera). If the driver's attention can be ensured, I think it's pretty indisputable that "vehicular sensors and constant attention" plus "human senses and reasoning" is going to be by far the safest option. But you need to ensure that the human is actually paying attention to the road. Requiring torque on the steering wheel is good (better than just a pressure sensor), but not enough.
IMHO.
And? That's their defense? At the start of 2016 there were 69k Teslas on US roads; at the end, 110k. Average of ~90k. There were 113 million registered cars on US roads in 2016, and 37461 deaths, or 1 in 3000 cars. 90k Teslas on average with 5 deaths means 1 in 18000 Teslas.
This is how AP defends itself?
Seriously, what sort of argument is "not all Tesla crashes end the same way" to begin with? Wait a minute, you're telling me that Teslas aren't invincible? OMG, I guess the star wore off, that explains why it's not flashing anymore!
The reality is that the more "micro" the state, the more you can expect them to become a haven for "Bad Things(TM)". Think of all of the Fritzls and the like you'd have when people feel free that there's no authority out there to stop them. Any crime you can imagine, expect it to happen abundantly when the group size is small and there's reason to feel confident in a lack of repercussions.
Floating microstates used to be common on the high seas, where a group of like-minded people decided that they had no interest in the laws and rules imposed on them by outside authorities, and that they were going to do whatever they wanted, in their own rational self-interest. These were known as "pirate ships".
Or a 200kg (440lb) Tongan king leading an invasion force of prisoners and a brass band.
(Though the island was tiny and unoccupied, there was nonetheless one casualty ;) )
Here, a gift for you: link
1) "I usually don't go to bed until after 3 AM, unless I'm covering shifts."
2) Stop stalking me. Seriously, there's something wrong with you.