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Floating Pacific Island Is In the Works With Its Own Government, Cryptocurrency (cnbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: Nathalie Mezza-Garcia is a political scientist turned "seavangelesse" -- her term for an evangelist in favor of living off the grid -- and on the ocean. Mezza-Garcia spoke with CNBC's Matthew Taylor about what she sees as the trouble with governments, and why she believes tech startups should head to Tahiti. This seavangelesse is a researcher for the Blue Frontiers and Seasteading Institute's highly-anticipated Floating Island Project. The project is a pilot program in partnership with the government of French Polynesia, which will see 300 homes built on an island that runs under its own governance, using a cryptocurrency called Varyon.
"Once we can see how this first island works, we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees," she said. The project is funded through philanthropic donations via the Seasteading Institute and Blue Frontiers, which sells tokens of the cryptocurrency Varyon. The pilot island is expected to be completed by 2022 and cost up to $50 million. As well as offering a home for the displaced, the self-contained islands are designed to function as business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
"Once we can see how this first island works, we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees," she said. The project is funded through philanthropic donations via the Seasteading Institute and Blue Frontiers, which sells tokens of the cryptocurrency Varyon. The pilot island is expected to be completed by 2022 and cost up to $50 million. As well as offering a home for the displaced, the self-contained islands are designed to function as business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
Along with a cryptocurrency, it has to use AI to keep the island afloat and manage it to be a winner.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Is there nothing it can't do?
If they have no way of defending themselves, they will be taken over by mafia or pirates as soon as they seem profitable. Sad reality of this world.
Wasn't this the plot to Bioshock?
Can we vote on which type? Maybe a monarchy?
...business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
Uh huh. Just like SeaLand[1]? We already know how that plays out. One frigate and a platoon of Marines and it's all over.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
The most feasible thing is building a community in the savanna or desert. Which is what most Projects of this kind do. If you have money enough to build and run a floating island, you'll have 5 times the money to do that. But I guess Peter Thiel has consumed to much like to realise that.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
So these islands are designed to function "beyond the influence of government regulation" and yet they'll be used "to house climate refugees." So this person wants to be away from government regulation, such as regulation on carbon dioxide emissions, but is a climate change alarmist and is preparing for climate change refugees. This seems highly contradictory as one would normally expect such a person to be in favour of regulations to prevent climate change.
Another contradiction is that she is "in favor of living off the grid" and yet the islands are "are designed to function as business centers." Off the grid generally means off the internet. How can you do business and be off the grid?
They don't seem to know what they want or what problem it is they're trying to solve. This won't end well.
"If you don't want to live under a particular government," she said, "people will be able to just take their house and float away to another island."
I think this organization does not quite understand the primary purpose of government: to provide protection of life, liberty, and property. Does this self-governing island have that ability? Who will citizens turn to if someone is murdered on their island? Or if someone invades their island? Or sinks it? Or if power fails? Food supplies fail? Water supplies fail? Currency becomes destabilized?
I think I'll stick with my own home country, thank-you-very-much. Sure, they're far from perfect, but at least I know they can provide for me the securities I need.
This would lead to an increase in pirates and simultaneously prevent global warming. LOL the correlation remains intact!
Along with a cryptocurrency, it has to use AI to keep the island afloat and manage it to be a winner.
And blockchain. They will be using a Blockchain to anchor it.
It would be better to spend the money replacing existing fossil fuel generation with renewable generation, and there's no point in switching to a monetary system that consumes 7 GW producing new money. Yes, there will be climate refugees, but it's cheaper to build a home on solid ground. Unless you really want your house floating around in a cat 4 or cat 5 hurricane...
As they will be setting up under French jurisdiction, they will be subservient to French laws and protections.
France already lets many islands in Polynesia govern themselves -- as long as they don't have any impact on other islands & generally respect french laws so if it actually comes to pass this will be generally more of the same.
There are islands in Polynesia where no non-inhabitant is allowed to stay the night. One in particular is about a 2 hour boat trip from Bora Bora. -- The islanders want to keep their culture pure but appreciate the tourist money.
Another island not too far away saw a few boatloads of Gendarmes come ashore about 10 years ago to put an end to another society that was "attempting to return to their polynesian values" and were treating the women as chattel so there are limits and the french Government will not hesitate to intervene if they judge it necessary.
Nothing new here...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
It's going to be a Libertarian Paradise where everyone takes personal responsibility and it will be harmonious!
*takes another drag*
And every thing will be privately owned.
*takes another drag*
There will be no "takers". No government stealing of property with guns!
*takes another drag*
It will be the paradise that Ayn Rand envisioned in her children's book, "Atlas Shrugged".
Right up until the moment the local Somali pirate variant shows up.
Galt's Gulch became Ayn's Atoll.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Hold on... Cryptocurrency? And "off the grid"? I don't think those two things go together.
Looks like they're going to need some defense, and no better than the likes of Big Boss to help build up his army again.
"If you're struggling to do business" - yes, this will become easier by limiting yourself to a market of 300 households! Oh, wait, no, they're thinking they're going to sell to the world, somehow? Do they have some sort of robotic manufacturing? Is there some sort of thing which enables them to not operate differently from the various other tax havens? No?
"just live under your country's administration" - yes, this will become easier by removing yourself to a location which is entirely dependent on the outside world for basics such as food and water! Oh, wait, no, they have compact fusion plants? New solar desalinization technology? Food replicators? No?
"proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees" - yes, they can come with their various boats (one for shorter trips and one for long-distance travels, another for entertaining) and use their iPhones to connect to the free satellite Internet and day-trade commodities using crypto coins ... wait, did anyone tell these people that climate refugees are generally quite poor in Western terms? Like maybe they don't even have a feature phone, and their advanced economic knowledge is maybe about getting a loan to purchase some chickens to provide eggs to their neighborhood? Do they have some sort of OLPC-type system to enable technological take-up in a way Western economies haven't?
"This means there is stability, outside of fluctuating geopolitical influences, trade issues and currency fluctuations" - because cryptocurrencies and the Internet are SUPER DUPER DOUBLE-PLUS STABLE COMPARED TO TRADITIONAL SYSTEMS. These aren't so much enabling technologies as disabling technologies.
"people will be able to just take their house and float away to another island" - or perhaps the island they are connected to will just disconnect them and cast them loose to sink or swim, either because their household isn't contributing enough rent, or just because they don't look "right". That sounds fun! It certainly won't be abused to force people to labor in the households of the islands super-rich!
---
In my life I have gone from growing up on a rural farm to early retirement in silicon valley, and I frequently worry whether I've lost my connection to how regular humans operate. It's nice to see that there's a group of people out there striving to make me feel like I'm still quite grounded! It's like how kids think that milk comes from the grocery store, except the adult version where they have no comprehension about how anything they rely on to live works.
until the weather turns bad and the seas get rough, when the wind is doing 90 mph and the seas have swells and waves at 50 feet with occasional rogue waves close to 75 feet there is no safe place in the ocean
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
What's wrong with these delirious disconnected-from-reality pseudo-libertarian nerds ? Haven't they learned anything about how the human brain works ? Isn't the thousands of years of human history enough ?
Any mildly sentient life form in the universe should know exactly how this is going to end. They can't possibly be that stupid. There's more to this that they let out. Most probably some scam to attract gullible "investors".
Manmade floating "island" states are not a new concept. If anything, people have thought about them for centuries, and talked about the implementation details for many decades now. They never happen because they're wildly impractical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_cities_and_islands_in_fiction
As well as offering a home for the displaced, the self-contained islands are designed to function as business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
Subversives, bomb them! It's the only way to be sure.
did you mean ===
Why not just get a boat as register it in Liberia. You can still make up your own crypto currency.
even better, don't get a boat but tell everyone you did get a boat. Call it your own country, so you don't have to register it. Then no one can determine the boat does not exist. take the money and run.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I think this organization does not quite understand the primary purpose of government
Would that be "the primary purpose of government" as we wish it to be... or as it actually has been throughout history? Wee bit of a difference.
It seems that every few years some group with lofty ideals tries to launch such a venture. And always for the same reasons: To get away from the corrupt governments of the world and build a utopia where unicorns and butterflies will frolic for all eternity. Well, I have bad news: Those governments were created and run by... humans! Yes, humans, just like those trying to re-imagine a perfect future. The problem is with human (i.e. animal) nature. We're animals, and unless we completely redesign our core humanity those floating communities will end up in much the same state as the very world they are trying to escape. Cheers
Just pick that least used biodome and declare your independence from Mom and the pizza delivery guy. Don't leave out that router, though, or you'd be just another "dark continent", Kimo savvy
That's... a really good and simple description of every ICO ever.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
No, not a "wee bit of difference" at all. Unlike what libertarians and other history-deniers would have us belief, most governments have done as "wished". The only governments that really did aim to screw over people constantly were the nomadic raider cultures like the Huns and the Mongols. Most other governments were actually about trying to look after the people they ruled over.
Those that didn't were overthrown either internally, or by another government that had its shit together.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
You know, it's kind of overcrowded there already.
Just ask China. They are looking to spread their defense to western Pacific, since there is an alliance of US-friendly nations stretching from Japan to the Philippines.
So your cryptocurrency and self-governance fantasies could vanish, without any real defense in place.
The thing these libertarian folks don't want to believe is that governments create economies.
Streets, sewers, power lines, courts, ports, contract laws, law enforcement to enforce them, schools to educate workers, blah blah blah. Stuff people who are not insane understand.
These folks are giving their money to an ideal that's a fantasy, has never worked anywhere, and will fail, probably before it gets too far along.
Oh, yeah, and there's storms, and these islands are surrounded by water. Big water. Ocean water.
I can't believe you are still pushing this propaganda.
Naturally it has a cryptocurrency. If it had been conceived fifteen years ago it's constitution would probably have been written in XML. Twenty-five years ago and it would have had a domain consisting of a common English noun and ".com".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Stick all the libertarian idiots on a floating pontoon in the middle of the Pacific, call it Rapture and wait for the whole thing to sink to the bottom of the sea.
Well much like space travel we have the technology and resources.* We just down't have the will. Where we are isn't unpleasant enough to motivate anyone to make such a drastic change, or financial commitment.
*Yes we could, think of as a oil platform on a grand scale.
Reminds me of Sealand off the UK coast. You can now become a Baron of Sealand for £29.99. https://www.sealandgov.org/
Are (any) fiat-currency and (any) cryptocurrency really equivalent, as cryptocurrency fans claim?
For example, US Dollar and Bitcoin are really equals?
Value/validity/authorization of US dollar is provided/guaranteed by US Government (and in-turn whole US Public)!
Also, not to mention, US Dollars in any US Bank is insured by US Government!
What authorization/guarantee/insurance is behind Bitcoin? Nothing!
Sorry but that is the end of discussion then!
Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity, if Bitcoin is really such a great innovation?
He is just someone does not like media/fan attention?
Or, could it be really because Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies followed it) are actually Ponzi Schemes?
(So he knew very well that law enforcement would come after him sooner or later?!)
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really good innovation, why they attract so many criminals/criminal activity?
Could it really be because, all cryptocurrencies themselves are scams, and that is why they attract all kinds of criminals/criminal activity?
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really currency, why no company/store can use Bitcoin as currency anymore?
Because the price of Bitcoin proved to be extremely unstable to use as a currency?
Would the result be different, if Bitcoin replaced by any other "cryptocurrency"?
Aren't all work the same way?
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really money; isn't people issuing their own money, illegal already, in all countries?
If so then, why they are still not banned in all countries?
Or, they are not actually virtual currency but virtual investment?
But, if they are actually investment, why we need/want them?
What would happen to world economy, if people invested in virtual investments, instead of real investments?
Or, all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually just a modified (made decentralized and paying variable interest) Ponzi Schemes?
(Price of cryptocurrencies would keep increasing in the long term (by their design), so it is equivalent of paying variable interest to all long term investors.)
Also, since all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually financial scams (Ponzi Schemes), that means, they cannot be the solution for any of existing financial problems of our world!
As more and more people invest in cryptocurrencies, it will become harder and harder to ban their trading everywhere (because people invested in cryptocurrencies, would try to stop anyone trying to ban cryptocurrencies)!
All cryptocurrencies need to be banned globally before it is too late!
Looked like a cool idea until that was said. Since it is highly unlikely the rich backers believe in the climate change hoax, there is different REAL reason they are trying to build this
Your turds represent the proletariat, and you are acting as the bourgeoisie when you tip the handle.
French Territory, so they fall under french taxation agreements. If they were truly independent with an independent armed force to protect it, they could legitimately set up a business tax haven island that could attract billions.
"...we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees"
I thought that is where they came from....
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
The next chapter in my life won't be to move to another area where there is more government involved. After all of the shenanigans with the Trump and Republican Party, the next move I make is to the interior of Alaska; somewhere far away from both people and government. Why would I want to move to some tiny, potentially crowded makeshift island to have even more interference in my life? As I get older and learn more, if you want true freedom, you must go to remote areas furthest from civilization. Then you won't (well mostly, at any rate) be bothered by government or people.
You believe in a system (the state) with a track record of thousands of years of failure with not a single example of a long-lasting, successful, corruption-free entity, and which has killed billions of people.
You're the funny one.
Over the next 100 years, expect to see multiple new stateless societies as the world evolves beyond government.
Murray Rothbard already decisively answered your objections nearly 50 years ago.
Read this book. You can download it for free:
https://mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto
Defense is a market service just like anything else. The market supplies what the consumers demand without taxation.
https://mises.org/library/private-production-defense
Government is nothing more than the mafia in a grand scale: a massive, well-armed protection racket that it forces you to pay and submit to. It exists to enrich and empower its elites and connected benefactors. It claims a full monopoly on the power of force in society. It is a criminal gang which people mysteriously treat as sacred.
I've been following it since... 2012. There have been like three startups not including this stupid french polynesia one (which is like the third probably failed project, just from the Seasteading Institute.) Furthermore even that guy who sued gawker gave up on them, stating he no longer believed it was possible.
Despite this, I don't think seasteading as a concept is a bad idea, just the people currently pushing it. Much like the AI/cryptocurrency jokes you see in other posts here, it is mostly being pushed as a 'libertarian' land scam, claiming freedom from legal responsibility while taking advantage of being in a 'safe' government's waters. The people starting the projects would own all the 'land' on the islands and would sell/lease this to the 'peasants' to recoup costs and pay investors. That is neither the way to generate a representative government, nor to found a self sustaining nation that is not even more ruthless than other existing libertarian/capitalist regions, assuming you were to first take care of the aforementioned jurisdictional issues.
On the matter of independent governance: If you want that to happen TODAY, the first step is to get enough stateless individuals willing to die (sea is a harsh mistress) or fight for their chance at freedom and their own country. And then they would need to establish themselves outside of the EEZ borders of existing UN nations. Given the current 200 mile EEZ(set to be expanded to 300 or 400 nm. See: Argentina), not including claims over continental shelves that extend beyond that, finding a safe region to set up a seastead is difficult, and convincing both the manpower and personnel necessary to initially establish and continually support will be hard.
I actually put a great deal of thought into a seastead based as a cooperative corporation with single share per citizen dividends with the initial platform anchored into pace over a seamount. The opportunities to do so are dwindling however, and if the Argentina EEZ expansion is used to ratify an extension to the UNCLOS EEZ distance for signatory nations, then all possible seamounts will be out of reach without direct conflict with UN backed nations, leaving the possibilities for a seastead outside of direct government influence floating over 4km deep waters with far higher minimum costs for anchoring in place, or stationkeeping capabilities to avoid drifting into 'sovereign territory'.
Should there be interest in more detail on my proposals, reply to this post and I will either discuss more here or put up a new website about it on I2P.
Everything government has, it has stolen from a real producer.
Unless things were going badly it could be assumed the average pirate wouldn't kill another pirate while at sea on risk of being keelhauled or marooned himself, shares of the booty were generally pre-negotiated before tours, and only if supplies ran out/the hunt went badly would pirates come to turn against each other.
While there are stories of the bad things that happened on pirate ships, or by pirate ships, the issues were more between 'sovereigns' (pirate ship vs established nation or other pirate ship) than between members of the pirate ship itself. Pirates, while they could be violent, were not generally internally unlawful. Discipline on a pirate ship was at least as important as a military vessel, although etiquette and manners outside of work were obviously not.
That said, all we have to go on is historical record, and much of that record was made to look down on the uncivilized nature of savages, whether they be land based natives, or sea based 'free states'.
OK. This is a scam. It is utter bullshit. You know it is bullshit. Why would you give this any credence at all. It is pure shit.
Now then, let's look at the fact that this basically already exists in cruise ships. They're floating islands with anywhere from 300 - 2,000 "homes" or condominiums depending on the size of the ship. They also have everything one could need for day-to-day life. They have their own governments(company, captain, crew) and they have their own currencies. Electronic currency in the form of on board guest cards, as well as chips in the casinos.
Yes, but this is a boat that people will pay you to live on. That is their big dream : to be their own government that 'the right sort of people' pay to live in their country.
Yeah, while they advocate open borders for everyone else. If libertarians really hated the state as much as they hate the nation, they might actually be good for something.
but geographically I believe it falls within the United States' Pacific Ocean 'turf'. Not necessarily what they legally control according to the UN/international treaty, but where they project by hook or crook(s).
I assume that "free from government influence" means not paying taxes. The logical consequence is that such an entity should not benefit from free government protection from pirates. Will french navy send a bill each time them help here?
I remember another artificial island that was a failure.
Or it's an imaginary boat you paid for that turns out doesn't exist
China thanks you in advance for preparing some new artificial islands for them.
Hank Johnson will be vindicated.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
So you'll have a couple of maintenance folks and data-center geeks on a from-the-mainland shift-rotation schedule. The rich folks may stop by in their yacht once a year. They may not even stop in to check on their money-launde...er, offshore accounts.
Climate refugees...hahaha! Waste. Of. Money.
Oh, and the book: "Seasteading -- How Floating Nations Will Restore The Environment, Enrich the Poor, Cure the Sick, And Liberate Humanity from Politicians." Could the title be any more self-aggrandizing? These floating concrete blocks would accomplish nothing of these things. At least classic homesteading had natural resources and an available trading environment to work with.
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
They have all been claimed or will be claimed if you make it viable try an asteroid plenty up there for the taking
Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
One good typhoon and one has to ask, were will the inhabitants go?
All I can say is that this isn't the first Libertarian floating utopia project that's come along and it won't be the last. Its one of those perennial bad ideas like flying cars.
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What's that in a real currency, like Varyon?
The project is funded through philanthropic donations ...
This seems like a pretty expansive view of what the term "philanthropic" means.