Ironically, I was working at a fast food joint (not mcdonalds, but one that serves tacos and has a big bell as a logo) while that whole lawsuit happened. I do know a little about it (as it sent shock waves through the industry)
Nearly every coffee machine in every fast food joint (they are all pretty much the same) is rigged with a set temperature. They are generally not adjusted, but are usually kept between 150 and 180F. Except for during peak times, you usually are getting coffee that has been sitting on a hot plate. Also remember that coffee is supposed to be very hot. If you are going to drink a near boiling drink in a car. you had best be careful.
How hot? Hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns? Not possible. Boiling water isn't enough to cause third degree burns. In fact I'll bet no form of water (perhaps super-heated steam) could cause one. A third degree burn is marked by charring and blistering of the skin. Water simply cannot do this. Look in an EMT manual at third degree burns for a better explination. The worst she could have gotten is a second degree burn, which (while painfull) is rarely serious (although in the groin area all bets are off) and is marked by blisters. I HAVE seen web sites (notably one by the Consumer Attorneys of California) claiming that there were third degree burns. This is simply not true.
The coffee was not hot enough to eat through the cup, it only burned her when she placed it in her lap, removed the lid and attempted to add cream and suger, and spilled it all over herself. This is not the intended use of coffee, and should not be something you can sue over.
In my tenure as a fast food jocky, I've found that vastly more people called and complained about coffee being cold than too hot. Since we had our machines at 170ish (mcdonalds was at 180) I'd imagine they had more complaints about cold coffee too. You see people get coffee to take back home or to the office, and seem to think that coffee should hold it's temperature no matter how long it sits.
Actually it is easier. I wanted something to listen to at work, and rather than lug all my cd's in (or rip them at home where I don't even want them and ftp them to my work computer) I figured I'd get a napster client and pull the songs I want. Since I'm going through a OC12 and a couple of OC3s at work, it didn't take long.
Which still begs the question, how exactally do they plan to make money? I've downloaded hundreds of songs from them (And yes, I have the CDs for all of them) and never paid napster a dime. I'm not even using their client.
Just being curious, but why? I mean, I remember when it was cool to have lots of karma, but the lable karma whore got tossed around and it wasn't cool anymore.
Is the thing now to make sure you DON'T have karma?
Personally I don't even follow it. All karma means is that you get to post at +1 (which is the defualt for some stupid reason)
Nobody wants to be accused of being a technology slob or elitist, but the internet WAS much better when most of the people on it knew what they were doing.
For some reason I'm reminded of a Dogbert quote "You may still discriminate against stupid people as their lobbying efforts have proven ineffective"
Taking from a more recent slashdot story, maybe there should be bandwidth limiting for dumb people:)
"You can't browse at 33.6 until you stop typing in all uppercase"
Hey, they are free to do it, but we are also free to talk or complain about it.
As customers (at least I am) it's nice to know these things. It's not like @HOME is going to e-mail all their customers and tell them this. Also, this is the first time I've heard anyone doing this. I'd be interested to know if this is going to start a trend.
I swear, some people are just here to whine and complain. I don't mind if you have some masochistic urge to read news you hate on a site you don't like, but do you have to complain about it too?
Not just with us Geeks, who watch stuff like this, but the general public.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that in order to give "priority" to a site, then something must be taken away from another. In a time when cable must compete against the faster xDSL services, you would think they would not want to criple ANYTHING. Or even give the illusion that are slowing something down.
Or perhaps they are doing this on purpose. Maybe they are going after the computer illiterate who only uses the internet for stocks, news and mainstream stuff. They could pull bandwidth from the hardcore internet users (many of who are probably only using cable while waiting for DSL in their area) by yaking it from anything non mainstream, and giving it to the "big" sites. Giving the regular Joe Customer a faster net experience at the expense of anyone not using mainstream sites. Wierd stuff
As an administrator at an ISP, I'm well aware of the need to watch the bottom line, but I would think twice before suspending a user's account on the grounds that they were being attacked. That's not good customer service, and it's definitely a bad precedent to set.
But wouldn't it be just as bad to constantly put other people's connections at risk and force them to endure outages over one person's page? I'm not saying that you shouldn't stick up for the person, but wouldn't a time come when the other customers have to be thought of also? (I've never worked in the ISP industry, so I'm not too well versed on their internal policies)
I'm assuming that there is a back story to this and this is probably not the first time this person has had trouble (otherwise, they are REALLY over reacting). Also, we don't know if they are persuing this matter any further. I'm inclined to believe they would, if nothing else to ensure the same people don't do it again to someone else.
As an economics major, I have to point out that it is actually the public's fault. Simple supply and demand.
The people who always complain about the lawyer scum are usually the same ones who will not hesitate to sue over the slightest thing. "I'm so dumb I spilled hot coffee on my lap, I need 5 million dollars":)
If there weren't such a demand for lawers in our society, there wouldn't be so many of them.
No ISP has any kind of 'obligation' beyond what is in their terms of service agreement. If they put in a clause that they can cancel your account for any reason (which many do) then they can do just that. People whining about their 'rights' need to stop and actually look at what those rights are. You have a right to speak, not a right to be heard. If a newspaper doesn't want to print your article, or a publishing company doesn't want to publish your book, they are not infringing on your rights anymore than an ISP that doesn't want to host your website.
An ISP is a business, they look out for the bottom line. Many cannot afford to go off fighting crusades on behalf of a single customer that is getting DDOSed or attacked by Mattel for some imaginary copyright violation. I imagine you would not like it if your internet service was down all the time because one customer's site was being attacked.
Stop attacking the ISP every time this happens. They are only being smart.
yours is based more on the generic Slashdot "Microsoft sucks, Linux rules" viewpoint.
Really? please re-read my post and find either the words microsoft or linux. For that matter find a reference to ANYTHING vender specific except VB. I was not attacking the language, only saying that this virus is not a gnutella specific virus, it is a visual basic virus. Sure it could be writen in a bash script but then it would be a bash virus. All I was doing was classifying it.
It seems there are two kinds of extreams on slashdot. Those who claim Linux is the end all of computer and that microsoft sucks, and those who never fail to attack anyone and everyone of harboring that viewpoint. I believe in your zest to paint me in that light, you failed to actually read my post and just assumed I was trolling the "slashsot party line" as it were.
I would make the argument that in most cases, the government is the puppet of the corporation. Not in all aspects of government, but if a large corporation wants something done (or something made illegal), they can donate heavily to one party or another and have their request made into law (DMCA is a great example of this)
Not to say that the government doesn't tramp all over our rights by itself, it's just that it will also tramp on our rights on behalf of a large company.
What if it put this on Freenet? Does it become a Freenet virus? How about on my web site? Then it's a WWW virus. Yeah, and I'll make it an FTP virus, and e-mail virus, and usenet virus....
IT'S A VISUAL BASIC VIRUS!!!!! Wake up ZDNet!!! It's a single file. It can be transmitted in any one of the millions of ways files can be moved from point A to point B (including sneakernet)
As long as there are people who repetedly test how hot the stove is with their hand, see if a dog is nice by sticking their hand in it's mouth and open vbs files on an operating system renowed for it's insecurity, we will have this problem.
People simply don't learn from the past. There is not much you can do but smile and charge them $100/hour for onsite service to fix the problems they create for themselves.
Well, we've given up a great place where minds could meet and interact without racial, sexual, political, or geographic boundries, and instead turned into a mirror of the flawed real world.
So no more free speech. That outdated concept needs to go to make room for commercialism. The companies came, saw and conqured before we knew what hit us. They found a place to spread their banner ads and 'one click shopping(tm)' and all they had to do to make it ready for them is get rid of the previous tennants and their silly ideas of anonymous information and freedom of speach. Silly kids, those don't make money.
Since, for the businesses that exist on the net to florish, they need to made sure some stupid kid can't publish negative information about their company or reveal their poor trade secrets (hello, Mattel) so there has to exist some method silenceing those who stand against them.
But let's not stop there, let's made damn sure this place is politically correct too. We wouldn't want anyone offended, especially by some outcast kid. Bring in all the lawers, there are potential suits for everyone. We need to make sure this digital land mirrors our real one, and that it inherits all the flaws and problems that it's makers 'forgot' put in.
If anyone needs me, I'm going to dial into some of the old BBSes I used to frequent. Maybe see if the sprirt of the old (dead) internet still lives on there.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us" Calivn - Calvin and Hobbs
Everything you said is true, and I agree. I was not trying to compare growth per se, I was just using that as an example against the obvious troll (which I should ignore, I know) claiming that Linux is somehow falling.
Microsoft's demand that companies using its source code pay royalties - and that Microsoft be allowed to inspect the code afterward - ensures that a Microsoft-Slashdot friendship remains as unlikely as a Beatles reunion.
If so, would the hit actually be greater than the hits caused by the various Microsoft viruses that have been nailing businesses every couple of months?
Slashdot Mirror
State College is a city in PA. Penn State's main campus is in it.
Finkployd
Ironically, I was working at a fast food joint (not mcdonalds, but one that serves tacos and has a big bell as a logo) while that whole lawsuit happened. I do know a little about it (as it sent shock waves through the industry)
Nearly every coffee machine in every fast food joint (they are all pretty much the same) is rigged with a set temperature. They are generally not adjusted, but are usually kept between 150 and 180F. Except for during peak times, you usually are getting coffee that has been sitting on a hot plate. Also remember that coffee is supposed to be very hot. If you are going to drink a near boiling drink in a car. you had best be careful.
How hot? Hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns? Not possible. Boiling water isn't enough to cause third degree burns. In fact I'll bet no form of water (perhaps super-heated steam) could cause one. A third degree burn is marked by charring and blistering of the skin. Water simply cannot do this. Look in an EMT manual at third degree burns for a better explination. The worst she could have gotten is a second degree burn, which (while painfull) is rarely serious (although in the groin area all bets are off) and is marked by blisters. I HAVE seen web sites (notably one by the Consumer Attorneys of California) claiming that there were third degree burns. This is simply not true.
The coffee was not hot enough to eat through the cup, it only burned her when she placed it in her lap, removed the lid and attempted to add cream and suger, and spilled it all over herself.
This is not the intended use of coffee, and should not be something you can sue over.
In my tenure as a fast food jocky, I've found that vastly more people called and complained about coffee being cold than too hot. Since we had our machines at 170ish (mcdonalds was at 180) I'd imagine they had more complaints about cold coffee too. You see people get coffee to take back home or to the office, and seem to think that coffee should hold it's temperature no matter how long it sits.
Finkployd
I've heard that DSL is faster. At least in State College, where the best I've gotten with cable is 120KB/Sec download rate.
Although, I think with DSL it really matters how far away you are from the phone company.
Finkployd
Actually it is easier. I wanted something to listen to at work, and rather than lug all my cd's in (or rip them at home where I don't even want them and ftp them to my work computer) I figured I'd get a napster client and pull the songs I want. Since I'm going through a OC12 and a couple of OC3s at work, it didn't take long.
Finkployd
Which still begs the question, how exactally do they plan to make money? I've downloaded hundreds of songs from them (And yes, I have the CDs for all of them) and never paid napster a dime. I'm not even using their client.
Finkployd
They're related to the reasons that the Electoral College actually elects the President
Offtopic (like we've been on topic up to this point), do you realise how many people still aren't aware of this?
Finkployd
Buddy, I was just trying to burn some karma....
Just being curious, but why? I mean, I remember when it was cool to have lots of karma, but the lable karma whore got tossed around and it wasn't cool anymore.
Is the thing now to make sure you DON'T have karma?
Personally I don't even follow it. All karma means is that you get to post at +1 (which is the defualt for some stupid reason)
Finkployd
Touche
:)
But you started it
Finkployd
Wow good point. That's some stuff to think about.
:)
Nobody wants to be accused of being a technology slob or elitist, but the internet WAS much better when most of the people on it knew what they were doing.
For some reason I'm reminded of a Dogbert quote "You may still discriminate against stupid people as their lobbying efforts have proven ineffective"
Taking from a more recent slashdot story, maybe there should be bandwidth limiting for dumb people
"You can't browse at 33.6 until you stop typing in all uppercase"
Finkployd
Hey, they are free to do it, but we are also free to talk or complain about it.
As customers (at least I am) it's nice to know these things. It's not like @HOME is going to e-mail all their customers and tell them this. Also, this is the first time I've heard anyone doing this. I'd be interested to know if this is going to start a trend.
I swear, some people are just here to whine and complain. I don't mind if you have some masochistic urge to read news you hate on a site you don't like, but do you have to complain about it too?
Finkployd
Not just with us Geeks, who watch stuff like this, but the general public.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that in order to give "priority" to a site, then something must be taken away from another. In a time when cable must compete against the faster xDSL services, you would think they would not want to criple ANYTHING. Or even give the illusion that are slowing something down.
Or perhaps they are doing this on purpose. Maybe they are going after the computer illiterate who only uses the internet for stocks, news and mainstream stuff. They could pull bandwidth from the hardcore internet users (many of who are probably only using cable while waiting for DSL in their area) by yaking it from anything non mainstream, and giving it to the "big" sites. Giving the regular Joe Customer a faster net experience at the expense of anyone not using mainstream sites.
Wierd stuff
Finkployd
As an administrator at an ISP, I'm well aware of the need to watch the bottom line, but I would think twice before suspending a user's account on the grounds that they were being attacked. That's not good customer service, and it's definitely a bad precedent to set.
But wouldn't it be just as bad to constantly put other people's connections at risk and force them to endure outages over one person's page? I'm not saying that you shouldn't stick up for the person, but wouldn't a time come when the other customers have to be thought of also? (I've never worked in the ISP industry, so I'm not too well versed on their internal policies)
I'm assuming that there is a back story to this and this is probably not the first time this person has had trouble (otherwise, they are REALLY over reacting). Also, we don't know if they are persuing this matter any further. I'm inclined to believe they would, if nothing else to ensure the same people don't do it again to someone else.
Finkployd
Its all the lawyers' fault, you realise.
:)
As an economics major, I have to point out that it is actually the public's fault. Simple supply and demand.
The people who always complain about the lawyer scum are usually the same ones who will not hesitate to sue over the slightest thing. "I'm so dumb I spilled hot coffee on my lap, I need 5 million dollars"
If there weren't such a demand for lawers in our society, there wouldn't be so many of them.
Finkployd
No ISP has any kind of 'obligation' beyond what is in their terms of service agreement. If they put in a clause that they can cancel your account for any reason (which many do) then they can do just that. People whining about their 'rights' need to stop and actually look at what those rights are. You have a right to speak, not a right to be heard. If a newspaper doesn't want to print your article, or a publishing company doesn't want to publish your book, they are not infringing on your rights anymore than an ISP that doesn't want to host your website.
An ISP is a business, they look out for the bottom line. Many cannot afford to go off fighting crusades on behalf of a single customer that is getting DDOSed or attacked by Mattel for some imaginary copyright violation. I imagine you would not like it if your internet service was down all the time because one customer's site was being attacked.
Stop attacking the ISP every time this happens. They are only being smart.
Finkployd
yours is based more on the generic Slashdot "Microsoft sucks, Linux rules" viewpoint.
Really? please re-read my post and find either the words microsoft or linux. For that matter find a reference to ANYTHING vender specific except VB. I was not attacking the language, only saying that this virus is not a gnutella specific virus, it is a visual basic virus. Sure it could be writen in a bash script but then it would be a bash virus. All I was doing was classifying it.
It seems there are two kinds of extreams on slashdot. Those who claim Linux is the end all of computer and that microsoft sucks, and those who never fail to attack anyone and everyone of harboring that viewpoint. I believe in your zest to paint me in that light, you failed to actually read my post and just assumed I was trolling the "slashsot party line" as it were.
Finkployd
I would make the argument that in most cases, the government is the puppet of the corporation. Not in all aspects of government, but if a large corporation wants something done (or something made illegal), they can donate heavily to one party or another and have their request made into law (DMCA is a great example of this)
Not to say that the government doesn't tramp all over our rights by itself, it's just that it will also tramp on our rights on behalf of a large company.
Finkployd
What if it put this on Freenet? Does it become a Freenet virus?
How about on my web site? Then it's a WWW virus.
Yeah, and I'll make it an FTP virus, and e-mail virus, and usenet virus....
IT'S A VISUAL BASIC VIRUS!!!!! Wake up ZDNet!!!
It's a single file. It can be transmitted in any one of the millions of ways files can be moved from point A to point B (including sneakernet)
As long as there are people who repetedly test how hot the stove is with their hand, see if a dog is nice by sticking their hand in it's mouth and open vbs files on an operating system renowed for it's insecurity, we will have this problem.
People simply don't learn from the past. There is not much you can do but smile and charge them $100/hour for onsite service to fix the problems they create for themselves.
Finkployd
Well, we've given up a great place where minds could meet and interact without racial, sexual, political, or geographic boundries, and instead turned into a mirror of the flawed real world.
So no more free speech. That outdated concept needs to go to make room for commercialism. The companies came, saw and conqured before we knew what hit us. They found a place to spread their banner ads and 'one click shopping(tm)' and all they had to do to make it ready for them is get rid of the previous tennants and their silly ideas of anonymous information and freedom of speach. Silly kids, those don't make money.
Since, for the businesses that exist on the net to florish, they need to made sure some stupid kid can't publish negative information about their company or reveal their poor trade secrets (hello, Mattel) so there has to exist some method silenceing those who stand against them.
But let's not stop there, let's made damn sure this place is politically correct too. We wouldn't want anyone offended, especially by some outcast kid. Bring in all the lawers, there are potential suits for everyone. We need to make sure this digital land mirrors our real one, and that it inherits all the flaws and problems that it's makers 'forgot' put in.
If anyone needs me, I'm going to dial into some of the old BBSes I used to frequent. Maybe see if the sprirt of the old (dead) internet still lives on there.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us"
Calivn - Calvin and Hobbs
Finkployd
Everything you said is true, and I agree. I was not trying to compare growth per se, I was just using that as an example against the obvious troll (which I should ignore, I know) claiming that Linux is somehow falling.
Finkployd
Why do I only keep seeing statements and hype like that ONLY on slashdot?
0 11,1014254,00.html
Perhaps because you are not looking anywhere else?
Here's one to start you with, it's a ZDNet story about the IDC findings.
http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11
Finkployd
Microsoft's demand that companies using its source code pay royalties - and that Microsoft be allowed to inspect the code afterward - ensures that a Microsoft-Slashdot friendship remains as unlikely as a Beatles reunion.
:)
No commentary, this speaks for itself
Finkployd
That's why Linux is failing and is never going to pick up.
Really, then why does nearly every report on the matter claim that linux is growing faster than all other OSes combined?
Finkployd
If so, would the hit actually be greater than the hits caused by the various Microsoft viruses that have been nailing businesses every couple of months?
Finkployd
I'm sure they will get all kinds of tax breaks.
Finkployd
you've all seen Southpark, right guys?
Yes, and I remember a particular favorite scene of mine:
"You told us Windows 98 would be faster, with better access to the Internet"
"It is faster, over 100 times..."
*BANG*
Finkployd