That's fine. You can believe in whatever you want to believe in. I look at the evidence and assume we'll do more of the same. More SNAFUs, more FUBARs, more destruction and depredation. Yes, things are better than they've ever been for many many people, but, this has not come without a cost, a cost that is usually externalized and then ignored. If your god-something gave us freedom, then you have to believe that he/she/it/they/us gave us enough freedom/rope to hang ourselves with.
Yeah, I am quite sure you are right about the significant risks parts, lots of modern experience attests to that fact. The part that worries me is
when something goes wrong you just need to be prepared in advance to go in and fix it.
this is the part we've not proven so good at witness: Iraq Invasion/Occupation, Deepwater horizon disaster, Exon Valdez, Dead zones in ocean (including Gulf of Mexico) from industrial farming pollution/run-off, DDT, GMO and other unnaturally hybridized grains (damage is seen in the incidences of diabetes and heart disease).
So, you'll have to excuse my lacking the same faith in science that you apparently hold zealously on to.
Do you really think we're going to achieve becoming a Type II civilization given the current destructive rate of our very existence? I say we annihilate ourselves before we even become a Type I. I am sure the sun trembles in fear at your mighty challenge.;-)
I'm going to assume that you are going for lolz with your entire comment. So I'll respond appropriately LOL, ROFLMAO, etc... More detailed: Farming seafood "right" requires industrial inputs to produce the mostly grain that is fed to that poor unfortunate and unhealty to eat farm raised seafood. Lab-grown food: see above, same answer. Bioengineering: well, it's taking real effort not to devolve to getting personal here but, I'll go with the old standby "Bioengineering in the wild, what could go wrong?!" Beer, skittles: This is where I realized you were just going for lolz, beer and skittles as foodstuff, haha, you are too funny! But we're still in trouble and unfortunately dragging down all the other species that had the misfortune to occupy the earth during our tiny window of existence/desecration of the planet.
I agree with you and wanted to point out some other facts: The 2/3 of it that is covered with water we've already done a fantastic job of making a terrible environment for its inhabitants, so much so that it is quite unsafe to eat their flesh in any significant amounts. We're rapidly draining aquifers for feedlot animals and to grow corn in the desert that is most of Texas. Pollution of oceans and rivers via use of industrial fertilizers and pesticides is probably what will make us extinct, along with a lot of the higher mammals. So, lets hear it for technology: "Yay technology!" Not every region of the planet is able to produce food like California is, where abundant vegetables are grown year around. Try growing anything other than mushrooms in a hothouse in the middle and eastern parts of the US during winter.
I'm not imposing my will on others but why should you impose your garbage on my environment. What gives you and the rest of the corporatists the right to externalize their costs onto the common environment? Ultimately it is a failure of corporate law but don't pretend you are fighting for individual rights when you are carrying water for the corporatists.
Paper bag will become mush that can be eaten by something eventually, not so plastic. Plastic will be forever there, it never goes away. It just gets smaller and affects the food chain negatively at whatever level it enters it. If you care about people then you should most definitely care about the environment. People need a healthy environment in order to thrive.
Paper bags decompose, plastic never does. If you can't be assed to care about the environment and the future of the planet, then we clearly can't engage in civilized conversation.
Not sure how men with guns got involved but if that is what your favorite fantasy is, have at it, enjoy your fear.
I bet there are laws against all theater owners banding together to force such a negotiation. Union busting as a hobby, sport, and profession has hurt us as citizens in many many ways.
Also realize the rate of gun deaths typically includes people shot in self defense protecting their life or a family member. This happens a LOT. That should not be included in the homicide rate. That's one of the reasons we have guns. When seconds count, cops are 45 minutes away.
I am not clear on why you believe that people shot in self defense while protecting their own should be excluded from the numbers, they're still dead, by guns. Yes, we'll never be protected by cops, their main job is to triage the scene of the crime and take down a report if they feel like it and can't talk the victim out of it because "oh the horror! So much paperwork!".
And if you think the US govt is screwed up now? Wait until they think we're all unarmed and totally powerless. They may have tanks and drones but the thought of people getting shot still gives them pause.
How much more screwed up do we need to get before gun owners rise up? I asked a colleague about this and his answer made me sad, they'll only get mad enough to fight back when the government literally attempts to physically wrest their guns from the general populace. Other than that, warrantless searches, curtailment of free speech, poisoning of the people, insane wealth concentration, increasing restrictions on gun ownership and ammo all good, just don't make a physical grab at the guns. So the guns that are supposed to protect our rights are only going to be used to protect the 2nd. Seems like the govt has found a pretty nifty way to keep the gun owners passive and out of the fray. So my answer is, as screwed up as they want to we are already unarmed and totally powerless due to our mindset, oh and "American Idol".
Trump? I didn't know you were on/. There is no such evidence, though neocons like you will no doubt pay think tanks to fabricate it for them. So, you don't like free roads, free primary public education, free research money for large pharmaceutical companies, free money for huge agrochemical companies? Heartless entitled SOBs who think that having been born privileged makes them a better person than someone born into misery have an extremely skewed view of reality (yeah I'm talking to you tRump). OTOH, What's wrong with a little or even a lot of sloth? What do you think is supposed to happen when efficiency increases by 300% and that efficiency is not shared with workers? Yeah, extreme wealth accumulation at the top and nothing at the bottom. Chavez was great for his people and much loved, so much so that a US sponsored coup with astroturfers leading the way had to be reversed due to popular outcry. So, yeah.
In our version of Fascism, the labor movement has been declawed and decimated. Corporations have taken control of government through the economic strong-arm method of campaign donations and lobbying. Would you argue that we don't have a rabid nationalist bend? How about all of the military service hero worship? The you're either with us or against us mentality? The Patriot Act?... There are many ways to arrive at Fascism.
Except that it isn't free sht is it? It is called an investment in society and your own country's economy. Meanwhile I am sure you are all for tax rebates and giveaways to the same corporations that are shipping out our jobs and bringing in HB-1 workers. *Newflash*, consumers are the job creators, not rich corporatists. Ask any business owner what is required for a successful business, the number 1 thing is customers. If your policies are aimed at destroying the livelihoods of your consumer groups guess where your economy is going to end up?
I would call that a hardware failure. Not sure what point you believe you're making here. A hard drive does not suffer, a circuit board is not self-aware. They have no fear of death, no comprehension of existence. No one mourns them. Nerd-rage at a hard-drive crashing is not the same as mourning.
Mysticgoat, while I am fully in favor of a universal income, it is clear the the cold greedy upper classes and their mindless supporters lack the capacity to think about the possibilities of such an economic paradigm.
When you say "people who really, truly, want to work and have the capacity to do so have always been able to find jobs", are you suggesting that if you really, truly want to work you'd be willing to compete at Chinese, Indian, or Indonesian labor rates? Because if that is where you are going, then I suppose there will be no end in the race to the bottom for worker wages. I am much more in favor of an industrial policy that favors preferred industries and thereby protects American workers. Of course the Chinese already have such a policy and thus they are moving up the chain and literally eating our lunch.
We were talking about airplanes but you opened up the discussion by stating "everyone comes out ahead", I am pointing out that not everyone comes out ahead.
I've thought about doing something like this... Actually, didn't "America's Funniest Videos" do it first? Also there is some "Fail" channel or some such as well that does well enough to have employees whose job it is to look for appropriate videos...
Slashdot Mirror
I think this AC was describing himself in the subject line, very revealing.
That's fine. You can believe in whatever you want to believe in. I look at the evidence and assume we'll do more of the same. More SNAFUs, more FUBARs, more destruction and depredation. Yes, things are better than they've ever been for many many people, but, this has not come without a cost, a cost that is usually externalized and then ignored. If your god-something gave us freedom, then you have to believe that he/she/it/they/us gave us enough freedom/rope to hang ourselves with.
Yeah, I am quite sure you are right about the significant risks parts, lots of modern experience attests to that fact.
The part that worries me is
when something goes wrong you just need to be prepared in advance to go in and fix it.
this is the part we've not proven so good at witness:
Iraq Invasion/Occupation,
Deepwater horizon disaster,
Exon Valdez,
Dead zones in ocean (including Gulf of Mexico) from industrial farming pollution/run-off,
DDT,
GMO and other unnaturally hybridized grains (damage is seen in the incidences of diabetes and heart disease).
So, you'll have to excuse my lacking the same faith in science that you apparently hold zealously on to.
Do you really think we're going to achieve becoming a Type II civilization given the current destructive rate of our very existence? I say we annihilate ourselves before we even become a Type I. ;-)
I am sure the sun trembles in fear at your mighty challenge.
I'm going to assume that you are going for lolz with your entire comment. So I'll respond appropriately LOL, ROFLMAO, etc...
More detailed:
Farming seafood "right" requires industrial inputs to produce the mostly grain that is fed to that poor unfortunate and unhealty to eat farm raised seafood.
Lab-grown food: see above, same answer.
Bioengineering: well, it's taking real effort not to devolve to getting personal here but, I'll go with the old standby "Bioengineering in the wild, what could go wrong?!"
Beer, skittles: This is where I realized you were just going for lolz, beer and skittles as foodstuff, haha, you are too funny! But we're still in trouble and unfortunately dragging down all the other species that had the misfortune to occupy the earth during our tiny window of existence/desecration of the planet.
I agree with you and wanted to point out some other facts:
The 2/3 of it that is covered with water we've already done a fantastic job of making a terrible environment for its inhabitants, so much so that it is quite unsafe to eat their flesh in any significant amounts. We're rapidly draining aquifers for feedlot animals and to grow corn in the desert that is most of Texas. Pollution of oceans and rivers via use of industrial fertilizers and pesticides is probably what will make us extinct, along with a lot of the higher mammals. So, lets hear it for technology: "Yay technology!"
Not every region of the planet is able to produce food like California is, where abundant vegetables are grown year around. Try growing anything other than mushrooms in a hothouse in the middle and eastern parts of the US during winter.
I'm not imposing my will on others but why should you impose your garbage on my environment. What gives you and the rest of the corporatists the right to externalize their costs onto the common environment? Ultimately it is a failure of corporate law but don't pretend you are fighting for individual rights when you are carrying water for the corporatists.
Paper bag will become mush that can be eaten by something eventually, not so plastic. Plastic will be forever there, it never goes away. It just gets smaller and affects the food chain negatively at whatever level it enters it. If you care about people then you should most definitely care about the environment. People need a healthy environment in order to thrive.
Paper bags decompose, plastic never does.
If you can't be assed to care about the environment and the future of the planet, then we clearly can't engage in civilized conversation.
Not sure how men with guns got involved but if that is what your favorite fantasy is, have at it, enjoy your fear.
I bet there are laws against all theater owners banding together to force such a negotiation. Union busting as a hobby, sport, and profession has hurt us as citizens in many many ways.
References? Pfft!
I thought we all fact checked based on our encyclopedic knowledge of science and engineering.
What's wrong with that is that they end up in a landfill or somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
Also realize the rate of gun deaths typically includes people shot in self defense protecting their life or a family member. This happens a LOT. That should not be included in the homicide rate. That's one of the reasons we have guns. When seconds count, cops are 45 minutes away.
I am not clear on why you believe that people shot in self defense while protecting their own should be excluded from the numbers, they're still dead, by guns. Yes, we'll never be protected by cops, their main job is to triage the scene of the crime and take down a report if they feel like it and can't talk the victim out of it because "oh the horror! So much paperwork!".
And if you think the US govt is screwed up now? Wait until they think we're all unarmed and totally powerless. They may have tanks and drones but the thought of people getting shot still gives them pause.
How much more screwed up do we need to get before gun owners rise up? I asked a colleague about this and his answer made me sad, they'll only get mad enough to fight back when the government literally attempts to physically wrest their guns from the general populace. Other than that, warrantless searches, curtailment of free speech, poisoning of the people, insane wealth concentration, increasing restrictions on gun ownership and ammo all good, just don't make a physical grab at the guns. So the guns that are supposed to protect our rights are only going to be used to protect the 2nd. Seems like the govt has found a pretty nifty way to keep the gun owners passive and out of the fray. So my answer is, as screwed up as they want to we are already unarmed and totally powerless due to our mindset, oh and "American Idol".
LOL
https://www.military1.com/all/...
uh. Server farms, contractors,...
Bummer for them...
Trump? I didn't know you were on /.
There is no such evidence, though neocons like you will no doubt pay think tanks to fabricate it for them. So, you don't like free roads, free primary public education, free research money for large pharmaceutical companies, free money for huge agrochemical companies? Heartless entitled SOBs who think that having been born privileged makes them a better person than someone born into misery have an extremely skewed view of reality (yeah I'm talking to you tRump).
OTOH, What's wrong with a little or even a lot of sloth? What do you think is supposed to happen when efficiency increases by 300% and that efficiency is not shared with workers? Yeah, extreme wealth accumulation at the top and nothing at the bottom. Chavez was great for his people and much loved, so much so that a US sponsored coup with astroturfers leading the way had to be reversed due to popular outcry. So, yeah.
In our version of Fascism, the labor movement has been declawed and decimated.
Corporations have taken control of government through the economic strong-arm method of campaign donations and lobbying.
Would you argue that we don't have a rabid nationalist bend? How about all of the military service hero worship? The you're either with us or against us mentality? The Patriot Act?...
There are many ways to arrive at Fascism.
Except that it isn't free sht is it? It is called an investment in society and your own country's economy. Meanwhile I am sure you are all for tax rebates and giveaways to the same corporations that are shipping out our jobs and bringing in HB-1 workers. *Newflash*, consumers are the job creators, not rich corporatists. Ask any business owner what is required for a successful business, the number 1 thing is customers. If your policies are aimed at destroying the livelihoods of your consumer groups guess where your economy is going to end up?
I would call that a hardware failure. Not sure what point you believe you're making here.
A hard drive does not suffer, a circuit board is not self-aware. They have no fear of death, no comprehension of existence. No one mourns them. Nerd-rage at a hard-drive crashing is not the same as mourning.
Mysticgoat, while I am fully in favor of a universal income, it is clear the the cold greedy upper classes and their mindless supporters lack the capacity to think about the possibilities of such an economic paradigm.
When you say "people who really, truly, want to work and have the capacity to do so have always been able to find jobs", are you suggesting that if you really, truly want to work you'd be willing to compete at Chinese, Indian, or Indonesian labor rates? Because if that is where you are going, then I suppose there will be no end in the race to the bottom for worker wages. I am much more in favor of an industrial policy that favors preferred industries and thereby protects American workers. Of course the Chinese already have such a policy and thus they are moving up the chain and literally eating our lunch.
We were talking about airplanes but you opened up the discussion by stating "everyone comes out ahead", I am pointing out that not everyone comes out ahead.
Except for the people in NYC and elsewhere that also wanted to work so they could make a living.
LOL
Thanks for feeding the troll.
Yeah, I like it too! I'm gonna start using it.
I've thought about doing something like this...
Actually, didn't "America's Funniest Videos" do it first? Also there is some "Fail" channel or some such as well that does well enough to have employees whose job it is to look for appropriate videos...
That's a very subjective statement. IMHO ;-)