Potential errors = errors that could/would have happened but didn't.
Apparently you missed the sarcasm. I should have used [tags]. My point was that if the error didn't happen (remained potential) you didn't make it. Otherwise they would be actual errors or real errors. In other words, "make a potential error" is an oxymoron.
I thought I was being +1 funny. I'll probablly get modded -1 flaimbait.:-(
It really depends on just how much you rely on AJAX. If you have just a single page which contains all the possible controls and functionality of your whole app, it can be quite complicated. If you just have a few ajax controls here and there and a unique HTML page for each major section, controls usually get drawn based on some database or session value so it pretty much takes care of itself. Just make sure that your ajax calls modify the screen in exactly the same way that loading the URL for the first time would.
Where you get into trouble is when you start relying on non HTML "widgets" for controls that are drawn and managed by javascript rather than rendered by the server. I would tend to avoid this unless you have a framework that takes care of all the "state" information for you. Problem is that those frameworks can be pretty heavy and slow.
The biggest problem with sites that overutilize AJAX is that they are difficult to bookmark. Users often want to bookmark parts of a site or send URLs to friends. If all of your app/site resides in a single page/url, nobody can link into it. This can be a bonus for people who wnat to prevent deep linking, but I think most users benefit from deep linking.
What it comes down to is: It depends.
Do you have a particular language/framework/application in mind?
You tell em! I just heard the term "body modification" about the year ago. I just about laughed my ass off when I found out they were just talking about piercings and tatoos. I thought it was something new like cybernetic implants or something... not the same stuff most of my friends have been doing for years now. Sounds like they just gave it a fancy name to make it cool to people who could only remember one term instead of two. What tools.
Oh yeah, and my slashdot ID is lower than yours. I was doing slashdot *before* it was popular. Nyah!
I think you're playing devil's advocate here. Have you lived in any unstable ones? I've visited a few, in the Far East, and the truth is that the folks living in them are keen on "moving to a country where even the poor people are fat".
No, i just think we have different ideas of what is stable. A stable society more or less means that there is no significant internal violent conflict. It can be depressed and poor and still be stable. My point is that I think we can do better. While stability is a good thing, I don't think it should be a goal in and of itself.
Pardon, sir: thought this was an open, honest discussion.;) I took, and essentially failed, a Biochemistry course. One of the fascinating contradictions about life is that, when a cell divides, you really want exact replication of DNA. The overwhelming majority of mutations are fatal to the mutant. Tactically, there is no interest in change. Strategically, life has to change in its teleological pursuit of wherever it's going. Let me not beat around the bush: I don't subscribe to the idea of life as a pointless exercise in chemistry.
I have no idea what this has to do with what we have been talking about. Are you comparing a change in "traditional" values to a genetic mutation? I don't buy it. First you'd have to establish that there is something special about a "traditional" value as opposed to any other value. Problem is, when you start picking and choosing your traditional values, they start to look pretty ordinary.
The fact that US culture divested itself of some nast bathwater there does not excite me towards punting the baby, however. Slavery is an obvious falsehood.
It wasn't an obvious falsehood back in the Old Testament. Rather, it seemed to be quite the norm. I can even find a passage from the Bible in which God gives explicit instructions on how to treat and obtain slaves. But I'm sure you are aware of that bit.
So I am not exactly sure what criteria you use for deciding which traditional values are immutable and which are mutable.
Some of the ideas circulating today, quite frankly, seem equally distant from the truth to me. The best we can do is disagree agreeably. Fatherhood is an immutable traditional value, which I'll vigorously defend.
Then you must accept the label of "close-minded." The world changes. Society changes. And the precise nature of fatherhood changes with it. You are fighting in vain. The question isn't "Should the nature of fatherhood change?" The question is "How has it changed?"
I do feel the idea is under explicit and implicit attack more or less daily. There is as much a place for the reactionary jackass as there is for the thoughtful critic kicking the tires on the idea periodically, to make sure they haven't lost pressure. It takes all kinds.
As long as you are comfortable playing the reactionary jackass, we can agree to disagree.
oh wait, I seem to be mistaken, every one of those actors was type-cast from the onset, and never did a damn thing significant past Star Trek, Stewart being the sole exception in the new X-Men movies.
Actually, Stewart has done lots of stuff outside of Star Trek. Just not a lot of big hollywood movies. He is more of a theater actor.
Is it just me, or does maintaining initrd seem like more trouble than it is worth? I guess it is good for generic distributions which want to support every hardware config under the sun and keep the kernel small, but if you know the (set of) hardware you are going to be running a given kernel on, you might as well just blow that initrd crap away. Whenever I recompile a kernel, initrd is the first thing to go. All you need in the kernel to make initrd irrelevent is disk and filesystem (and maybe software RAID modules) support. You can keep everything else as modules.
Theoretically possible, but is it practical with TCP connections? Maybe I'm not up on my security, but don't most modern OSs use difficult to predict TCP sequence numbers? And dont' clickthroughs often require more than one connection to complete? When you spoof an IP address, you are working blind. You can never see a response from the server you are talking to. Any HTTP redirects will be lost.
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to uses a botnet for click fraud.
And that makes you special? It really doesn't matter. A lot of people (namely, the ones they're targeting) do notice them. And because of that, the services remain "free" while they continue to see a good return on their investments.
I guess the quesiton is, are that many people really clicking on/noticing ads? Or is a good portion of it fraudulent?
I would return that there are many traditional elements such as personal integrity, responsibility, manhood, womanhood, and the family that are foundational to stable society and which are suffering from severe erosion in the current situation.
Even the largest, most solid mountain erodes. At some point you have to embrace change and ask yourself if what were once considered the pillars of a "stabe society" are still relevent. A "stable" society isn't necessarily the best society.
Well, that's a fair thing to say, given a superficial internet view. Some ideas, like shooting heroin, are outside the common sense horizon, and if my gentle refusual to treat my flesh as a dart board marks me close-minded, then so be it.
The thing is, nobody is asking you to shoot heroin. And very rarely is it even presented as a Good Idea(tm). What is important is that you don't completely dismiss the subject out of hand. There are real issues with drug abuse that "just say no" simply doesn't address.
When I noted taht you seem close-minded, I was actually refering to things you seem to consider immutable traditional values. In your mind, a challenge to the traditional idea of fatherhood, for example, becomes an "attack." Being close minded is about being defensive and dogmatic about issues rather than open to honest discussion.
Restores require the private keys, but that should be rare enough that it would be noteworthy when somebody asks for the private key. You could use a different key every time, to limit the damage if one key does get out.
But someone has to keep the private keys. Do you trust that person? Is it practical to have only one person controlling the keys? If they are out of town and you need to do a restore, you're screwed.
Anyway, none of this does any good if the admin can access the data as it is in production. Going through a backup would be an unnecessary setup for most IT admins. I mean, if you know exactly what you want, just go in an copy it from the server.
I suppose you could go and implement security such that nobody has full access to the systems, but at some point you're just making it difficult for people to get their work done. I'd certainly never put up with it.
Ok, but how does that protect against IT from stealing information? Who do you think is going to have access to the encryption keys (or whatever you use)?
What about "traditional values" such as slavery? Slavery goes back a long way, you know.
What makes you think it's purely historical?
Regardless, "traditionally" people kept slaves. Whether or not it is totally in the past is irrelevent. Would you like to see that tradition return in our society?
Again, what makes you think it's purely historical? What is racism but naked Darwinism in action?
You are evading the question. Racial "pride" is a traditional value. Would you or would you not like ot see it come back full force in our society? Why or why not?
Are Muslim women willing participants, or opressed?
Answer the question, please. It is impolite to answer a question with a question... especially three times in a row. Would you like to see women in our society opprssed as they traditionally have been and still are in many parts of the world?
I'll agree with you in the strategic sense of the human spirit (the existence of which you may reject, but allow me the symbol briefly) being fairly constant. Societies do age, and die, though. Rome is toast. France looks wobbly. The USSR imploded. Things do change. I wouldn't necessarily agree with Bork that we're "Slouching Towards Gomorrah", but there are a number of ungood elements afoot that are more part of the problem than the solution.
Likewise, there are many traditional elements that are afoot which are more part of the problem than the solution. I say challenge everything and see what sticks.
Where they encounter resistance from me is when they assert that I have to accept some of their ideas as justified. I find the ideas themselves utterly false, and no one has (nor is there any requirement for them to) start with Ultimate Truth and derive some theory of human life that justifies these ideas. One should judge the tree by the fruit, and these ideas are fruitless. Sorry.
Since you don't say (can't say?) exactly what they are asking you to accept, I can't really comment. I can say, however, that you seem pretty uptight and close minded.
What I'm referring to is the overt and covert attack on traditional values. If you've read Golberg's Bias [amazon.com] there seems to be pattern of destruction of traditional values.
It doesn't make any sense to blame the media. The reality is that society evolves and changes over time, media or no media. Populations shift. Priorities change. Technology makes certain cocnepts obsolete, etc, etc. There are a hundred things that you consider to be immutable traditional values which will change whether you like it or not. The quesiton you need to ask yourself is what is necessarily so good about "traditional values?" Why does "traditional" automatically make something good?
What about "traditional values" such as slavery? Slavery goes back a long way, you know. The Old Testament even contains explicit instructions from God on how to obtain and treat slaves. Aren't you glad to see that traditional value destroyed? Racism is also a very traditional value. Aren't you glad to see that destroyed? Or the oppression of women. Aren't you glad to see that destroyed? I can go on and on. Society is not decaying. It is just changing. And in many ways, for the better. Things change. Deal with it.
Mrs. Doubtfire is a funny movie. Robin Williams is a genius. Setting aside the baby and peering into the bathwater, isn't the flick a disturbing assault on fatherhood?
Not that I can tell.
Tactically, the movie is an enjoyable escape, but, strategically, do I want to see men desperately mis-representing themselves to gain access to their children? Are we advocating an "end justifies the means" mentality here? Has my wife overstarched my underwear again, and I need to lighten up?
Well, i was going to suggest that you might have something up your butt, but I am afraid you might take that as a justification for homosexuality.
Maybe I am confusing you with someone else, but didn't you say that anything about incest is off limits? And that stories about sexual confusion were uninteresting, if not off limits as well?
How about that story I proposed in another subthread that you didn't respond to? It was about a gay teen and sexual confusion.
'm no fan of Disney, that happiest place on earth. Give me Warner Brothers, where there is a variety of surprisingly mature material going on, even to the point of Bugs Bunny cross-dressing.
Oh come on. Bugs Bunny cross-dressing is hardly "mature."
I know I didn't grow up in a shoebox. Mom and dad de-mystified such topics as pornography and alcohol really early. As an adult, these and the other common vices bore me senseless. Meaning, man: it's all about meaning.
And take it a step further. I have no idea what the business model could support, but what if AOL could offer free or dirt-cheap broadband, based on advertising revenues? They would instantly renew their appeal to the newbie market.
That would require that each eyeball were worth at least the cost of broadband, and I know that isn't the case. Do you really think that users, on average, click on $30 (guestimated value of broadband) worth of ads per month? That is a LOT of ads. What is a clickthrough worth these days? $.05? Also, these clicks would have to be within the AOL app... not another browser or service.
1. Find people are leaving your service because in doesn't provide any added value in this day and age 2. Further decrease the value of the service by diluting it with ads 3. ??? 4. Profit!!
Are those nano particles? Or just micro particles? Last I checked, "nano" was pretty darn small. I'm not saying that one couldn't mass produce nano particles of silica. I'm just expressing doubt about the feasability of doing it at home with a rock tumbler.
Having fired a.45, I was actually surprised how little "kick" there was to it. How can the reciever get more a blow than I did in the recoil of the gun firing the bullet? Only thing I can figure is that maybe the acceleration of the bullet out of the gun is done over a longer period of time such that the impulse is less than if you try to stop the bullet in a shorter time.
Slashdot Mirror
Apparently you missed the sarcasm. I should have used [tags]. My point was that if the error didn't happen (remained potential) you didn't make it. Otherwise they would be actual errors or real errors. In other words, "make a potential error" is an oxymoron.
I thought I was being +1 funny. I'll probablly get modded -1 flaimbait.
-matthew
It really depends on just how much you rely on AJAX. If you have just a single page which contains all the possible controls and functionality of your whole app, it can be quite complicated. If you just have a few ajax controls here and there and a unique HTML page for each major section, controls usually get drawn based on some database or session value so it pretty much takes care of itself. Just make sure that your ajax calls modify the screen in exactly the same way that loading the URL for the first time would.
Where you get into trouble is when you start relying on non HTML "widgets" for controls that are drawn and managed by javascript rather than rendered by the server. I would tend to avoid this unless you have a framework that takes care of all the "state" information for you. Problem is that those frameworks can be pretty heavy and slow.
The biggest problem with sites that overutilize AJAX is that they are difficult to bookmark. Users often want to bookmark parts of a site or send URLs to friends. If all of your app/site resides in a single page/url, nobody can link into it. This can be a bonus for people who wnat to prevent deep linking, but I think most users benefit from deep linking.
What it comes down to is: It depends.
Do you have a particular language/framework/application in mind?
-matthew
You tell em! I just heard the term "body modification" about the year ago. I just about laughed my ass off when I found out they were just talking about piercings and tatoos. I thought it was something new like cybernetic implants or something... not the same stuff most of my friends have been doing for years now. Sounds like they just gave it a fancy name to make it cool to people who could only remember one term instead of two. What tools.
Oh yeah, and my slashdot ID is lower than yours. I was doing slashdot *before* it was popular. Nyah!
-matthew
Man, I hate it when I make potential errors. How does VS deal with virtual errors?
-matthew
No, i just think we have different ideas of what is stable. A stable society more or less means that there is no significant internal violent conflict. It can be depressed and poor and still be stable. My point is that I think we can do better. While stability is a good thing, I don't think it should be a goal in and of itself.
I have no idea what this has to do with what we have been talking about. Are you comparing a change in "traditional" values to a genetic mutation? I don't buy it. First you'd have to establish that there is something special about a "traditional" value as opposed to any other value. Problem is, when you start picking and choosing your traditional values, they start to look pretty ordinary.
It wasn't an obvious falsehood back in the Old Testament. Rather, it seemed to be quite the norm. I can even find a passage from the Bible in which God gives explicit instructions on how to treat and obtain slaves. But I'm sure you are aware of that bit.
So I am not exactly sure what criteria you use for deciding which traditional values are immutable and which are mutable.
Then you must accept the label of "close-minded." The world changes. Society changes. And the precise nature of fatherhood changes with it. You are fighting in vain. The question isn't "Should the nature of fatherhood change?" The question is "How has it changed?"
As long as you are comfortable playing the reactionary jackass, we can agree to disagree.
-matthew
Actually, Stewart has done lots of stuff outside of Star Trek. Just not a lot of big hollywood movies. He is more of a theater actor.
-matthew
You're still a coward.
Is it just me, or does maintaining initrd seem like more trouble than it is worth? I guess it is good for generic distributions which want to support every hardware config under the sun and keep the kernel small, but if you know the (set of) hardware you are going to be running a given kernel on, you might as well just blow that initrd crap away. Whenever I recompile a kernel, initrd is the first thing to go. All you need in the kernel to make initrd irrelevent is disk and filesystem (and maybe software RAID modules) support. You can keep everything else as modules.
-matthew
Theoretically possible, but is it practical with TCP connections? Maybe I'm not up on my security, but don't most modern OSs use difficult to predict TCP sequence numbers? And dont' clickthroughs often require more than one connection to complete? When you spoof an IP address, you are working blind. You can never see a response from the server you are talking to. Any HTTP redirects will be lost.
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to uses a botnet for click fraud.
-matthew
I guess the quesiton is, are that many people really clicking on/noticing ads? Or is a good portion of it fraudulent?
-matthew
Even the largest, most solid mountain erodes. At some point you have to embrace change and ask yourself if what were once considered the pillars of a "stabe society" are still relevent. A "stable" society isn't necessarily the best society.
The thing is, nobody is asking you to shoot heroin. And very rarely is it even presented as a Good Idea(tm). What is important is that you don't completely dismiss the subject out of hand. There are real issues with drug abuse that "just say no" simply doesn't address.
When I noted taht you seem close-minded, I was actually refering to things you seem to consider immutable traditional values. In your mind, a challenge to the traditional idea of fatherhood, for example, becomes an "attack." Being close minded is about being defensive and dogmatic about issues rather than open to honest discussion.
-matthew
But someone has to keep the private keys. Do you trust that person? Is it practical to have only one person controlling the keys? If they are out of town and you need to do a restore, you're screwed.
Anyway, none of this does any good if the admin can access the data as it is in production. Going through a backup would be an unnecessary setup for most IT admins. I mean, if you know exactly what you want, just go in an copy it from the server.
I suppose you could go and implement security such that nobody has full access to the systems, but at some point you're just making it difficult for people to get their work done. I'd certainly never put up with it.
-matthew
Ok, but how does that protect against IT from stealing information? Who do you think is going to have access to the encryption keys (or whatever you use)?
Regardless, "traditionally" people kept slaves. Whether or not it is totally in the past is irrelevent. Would you like to see that tradition return in our society?
You are evading the question. Racial "pride" is a traditional value. Would you or would you not like ot see it come back full force in our society? Why or why not?
Answer the question, please. It is impolite to answer a question with a question... especially three times in a row. Would you like to see women in our society opprssed as they traditionally have been and still are in many parts of the world?
Likewise, there are many traditional elements that are afoot which are more part of the problem than the solution. I say challenge everything and see what sticks.
Since you don't say (can't say?) exactly what they are asking you to accept, I can't really comment. I can say, however, that you seem pretty uptight and close minded.
-matthew
We're talking about absolute zero here. Not your refridgerator. There is a huge difference.
-matthew
It doesn't make any sense to blame the media. The reality is that society evolves and changes over time, media or no media. Populations shift. Priorities change. Technology makes certain cocnepts obsolete, etc, etc. There are a hundred things that you consider to be immutable traditional values which will change whether you like it or not. The quesiton you need to ask yourself is what is necessarily so good about "traditional values?" Why does "traditional" automatically make something good?
What about "traditional values" such as slavery? Slavery goes back a long way, you know. The Old Testament even contains explicit instructions from God on how to obtain and treat slaves. Aren't you glad to see that traditional value destroyed? Racism is also a very traditional value. Aren't you glad to see that destroyed? Or the oppression of women. Aren't you glad to see that destroyed? I can go on and on. Society is not decaying. It is just changing. And in many ways, for the better. Things change. Deal with it.
Not that I can tell.
Well, i was going to suggest that you might have something up your butt, but I am afraid you might take that as a justification for homosexuality.
-matthew
Maybe I am confusing you with someone else, but didn't you say that anything about incest is off limits? And that stories about sexual confusion were uninteresting, if not off limits as well?
How about that story I proposed in another subthread that you didn't respond to? It was about a gay teen and sexual confusion.
Oh come on. Bugs Bunny cross-dressing is hardly "mature."
I don't know what you mean.
-matthew
Ok, so all you have to do is cool it to near absolute zero. How long do you have to do that for and how much energy does it take to maintain it?
-matthew
That would require that each eyeball were worth at least the cost of broadband, and I know that isn't the case. Do you really think that users, on average, click on $30 (guestimated value of broadband) worth of ads per month? That is a LOT of ads. What is a clickthrough worth these days? $.05? Also, these clicks would have to be within the AOL app... not another browser or service.
-matthew
1. Find people are leaving your service because in doesn't provide any added value in this day and age
2. Further decrease the value of the service by diluting it with ads
3. ???
4. Profit!!
Stupid.
-matthew
Are those nano particles? Or just micro particles? Last I checked, "nano" was pretty darn small. I'm not saying that one couldn't mass produce nano particles of silica. I'm just expressing doubt about the feasability of doing it at home with a rock tumbler.
-matthew
I suspect that "nano" might be just a little bit smaller than what you can make just by tumbling.
-matthew
Having fired a .45, I was actually surprised how little "kick" there was to it. How can the reciever get more a blow than I did in the recoil of the gun firing the bullet? Only thing I can figure is that maybe the acceleration of the bullet out of the gun is done over a longer period of time such that the impulse is less than if you try to stop the bullet in a shorter time.
-matthew
How do you make nano particles of silica?
-matthew
Ah, so THAT is why everyone says that a groundwar in China would be a bad idea. We have no protection against all the Flying Daggers.