The MacOS is not a fixed entity. System 1 that shipped back in 1984 is completely unrecognizeable compared to MacOS 9.0.4, there is a process by which it has evolved. The MacOS is, by definition, the OS that Apple makes for Macs.
OK, so assume he leaves you three bucks on the seat to cover the cost of the gas, the wear on the tyres, and the general depreciation of the vehicle whilst he was driving it.
I've already stated the circumstances under which I would consider it to not be theft. If the car were not altered in any way. Then one could argue that it is not theft.
Is it OK to break into a bank computer and transfer funds from a rich person's account to yours?
You're talking about taking a tangible thing. Money. A stack of bills. Even though the banks computer is only a representation, the actual thing is REAL. If it were possible to COPY that money instead of take it, one could make the case that it isn't stealing.
If I go into H&R block, have them do my taxes, sneak over to a xerox machine, and then make a copy of the return they wrote, throw the original in their face, and walk out without paying, is that theft?
Yes, because that work was done for you. If however someone else who made the exact same amount of money as you and had the exact same deductions as you went to H&R Block and had his taxes done and you copied his return replacing his info with your own, that would NOT be theft.
I have another one for you. Is recording a file off of the radio theft? If so why isn't the RIAA suing Sony, Daewoo, Panasonic, Aiwa and others for making radios with cassette decks which can record songs from radio broadcasts?
You do not seem to understand the massive fixed cost of producing music, and seem to believe the marginal cost outweights it, but that isn't even really the point.
It doesn't matter if it's $1,000,000 per second or free. Making an unauthorized copy may be illegal but it's not theft.
Ah, a moral relativist. Just what we need more of. "There are no truths in society, and people are too helpless to be held to absolutes." Right.
Morality is subjective. In some societies fornication is a great faux pas, but in others it's a requirement. Laws are absolute, morals are not.
Theft is universally considered a crime almost on par with murder.
We're not talking about theft here.
Copyright infringment has nothing to do with morals, it is law.
You're correct. I have never disputed the illegality of making unauthorized copies of someone else's material.
The moral corollary of copyright infringement is theft.
Why? Because you say so? Bootlegging is more akin to theft than piracy will ever be.
As to the substance of your point about 'what stealing is', consider this small Gedankenexperiment, consider the man who breaks into your car whilst its parked outside the office, and takes it for a drive around the city, kindly returning it to the car park after he's finished with it, and before you come out of work. Theft, or not theft?
Theft. Because they car has been altered while it was gone. It's not the same. There is more wear on the car. There is less "life" left in it, when it's returned.
If he were to carefully load it onto the back of a flatbed truck and cover it up and drive the truck around town and return it in the exact same condition then that would not be theft.
Your use of the word Napster in the above context illustrates to me that you have no idea what Napster is.
The RIAA, record companies, Metallica and Dr. Dre are suing Napster because they know that they have deeper pockets and can outlast them in court. It's like when someone tries to buy the pot in a game of poker.
It would be precisely akin to refusing to pay a barber for a haircut. Have you stolen something? Yes! You have stolen services.
You are incorrect. It would be more akin to borrowing the BOSS shirt of a friend and making a copy of it in your basement. You've refused to pay Hugo Boss for the time he took to design the original. You've refused to pay a big department store for one of the originals. You've refused to pay for shipping and... Have you stolen the sales tax from the state? After all if you made your own you didn't have to pay sales tax on it.
This isn't the point however. Copyright infringement is an illegal practice, but it is NOT theft. Is it morally wrong? I can't decide that for everyone. I can only choose for me. People have differing opinions about whether it's morally wrong to have an abortion or own a gun. Why is this any different?
You raise a good point. It's not theft. That's akin to the BSA assuming that every piece of software that gets pirated would have been bought if it wasn't pirated. Granted some of it would have been, but not nearly all of it. I don't believe that if Napster didn't exist these people would be buying the CDs from which they've gotten their gigabyte MP3 collections.
Just like with Napster. If you downloaded a song, you may have broken the law by infringing on someone's copyright but you haven't stolen anything.
Stealing is when person A has object X. Person B comes along, and without permission from the rightful owner of object X, takes object X. Person B now has posession of object X and person A no longer has object X.
Carmack's change of heart came within months after Apple scrapped Copeland and announced Rhapsody. Everyone was expecting Apple to snap up Be and incorporate BeOS into the MacOS, but instead they grabbed NeXT. Within a year Rhapsody (later to become MacOS X) was announced. Shortly thereafter is when Carmack changed his mind.
What do I care anyway? I'm done buying id games anyway. DeathMatch Du Jour with nothing new but spiffed up graphics isn't groundreaking or even noteworthy.
Quake like type games are more innovative than the originals. Half-Life for example was far more original than Q2 or Q3. Carmack and id are just living off of the hype from previous successes.
Apple is no more getting rid of MacOS than Microsoft is getting rid of windows9x. They're keeping the best parts and replacing the worst parts to make MacOS X.(Why not call it Mac OS 10 if we're supposed to pronounce it that way?)
Steve was the boss at NeXT when he was ousted from Apple.
I lost all respect for him long ago. I remember once he said that he had "No respect for the MacOS" and that he wouldn't do any development for that platform. Yet after a few minutes with Steve Jobs he's all gung ho apple.
Although I was disappointed because at the time I was an apple enthusiast. I would have had more respect for Carmack if he had either stuck to his guns or given a good reason for his change of heart.
Some people want that. Not naming any names, some politicos would rather have mob rule. The opinion makers on the other side of the TV screen know that they can manipulate people into believing just about anything that they want.
For under $300 I was able to wire my entire house for 10/100 ethernet. The largest part of that bill was the ~$190 that I paid for the 10/100 switching hub.
I have been thinking about throwing up a page documenting the process.
Katz:"Lars, what do you think is the driving force behind the opensource MP3 dominated, internet freedom, napsterized,internet and natalie portman influenced, hellmouth paradigm shift?"
Lars:"It's like, well you know when, sometimes you just have to, and since I don't know too much about those types of things. On the other hand James and Jason think that, well that's not exactly accurate, there was once this time that we all took this think and did stuff with it. That isn't really important here because, you know what? My dad just got this AOL account and I used up all of his free hours then he was all like, "Lars, those were MY free hours!" and I like blew him off about the whole thing. I have a little dreidle, I made it out of clay, and when it's dry and ready, with dreidle I will play. Um, what? Oh, oh, oh, the technology thingie? My managers, like said that it was, um bad for me or something so I, uh think that ahhh , I'm against it. I think?"
Daystar Genesis MP systems had up to four 200mhz ppc604 processors, The Umax S900, the PowerMac 9500 180MP and the Powermac 9600 200 MP each had two ppc604 processors. It was round about 4 years ago that MP MacOS machines started to ship. There was an extension and a photoshop plugin that allowed programs to take advantage of the extra CPUs.
The MacOS can use multiple threads right now. Although it's all done through cooperative MT, it does (kind of) work. Through used hardware dealers you can still get MP CPU cards for older PCI macs.
The bottom line is still this, the MacOS doesn't explicitly support SMP but extra processors can still be used for increased processing power.
They could make it a company that survives by selling it's product to Microsoft's OS division. Hell, they might just lease office space from and pay money to Microsoft's Application division for outsourcing services to have their programmers work on the product.
I want to be good at solving problems. I want to be the guy that people call when all of their IT guys get stumped. I want to see a BIG RED speed dial button on the telephone of every manager with whom I work that says "KANO" on it.
I am not nearly that good yet, but I'm working on it. I want to be the guy who gets called to testify before congress when some IT related legislation is under consideration. "Yeah, Kano, this is Senator Lott again. We need your input on the new internet regulations package that we're working on. Oh by the way, my laptop is runnig great now, thanks."
That's my goal. I want to learn as much as I possibly can given my potential and need for a real life outside of work.
Am I the only one who thinks that this is not good?
7 years ago when I first got on the internet through college, there were no big corporate web sites. AOL and Compu$erve only had email gateways to the internet. They couldn't FTP or gopher. Now everyone and his mother (literally) is getting onto the internet. It's funny that the more of these clueless newbies get on the internet the more of a call we have for regulation.
The latest virus scare is the perfect example. People buy new computers preloaded with windows. They don't understand that they have a choice other than Outlook/Express for their e-mail. Many new targets for a VBA e-mail virus. Virus strikes, and we have media pundits asking politicos what the governments of the world can do to make the internet safer for the children.
I realize that the party's over, it's not "our thing" anymore, but why in the name of Bool are you celebrating that?
1. Because there are about 3.5 million members who are willing to give $25 per year each to the NRA to fight for them.
2. Because those 3.5 million NRA members are MUCH more likely to vote than the average American. Out of all Americans somewhere between 50 million and 60 million actually vote. If you're a politician who is running close to his opponent in the polls it's in your best interest NOT to piss them off.
And, yes I AM advocating the use of guns, ballots, dollars and every other legal means to affect positive change.
You make some good points, the American public education system is a joke. Our students are the least capable in math and science out of all of the students from the industrialized world.
If one relies solely on what one is taught in our schools, that person is lost. However, our universities produce some of the most competant professionals on the planet.
Our public education systems churns out semi-literate, semi-educated consumeroids. However not all of us are beer bellied football junkies.
Where does the majority of the world's software development occur? Why? Because we've got the economic resources to draw the best and brightest from around the world, foreign and domestic.
Where did the power of the atom firse get harnessed? Why? Because our free society didn't allow any antisemitic dictator to drive the best jewish minds away and into the hands of the enemy.
Back to my point though, the typical american today isn't the undereducated buffon that for some reason seems to dominate all of our entertainment productions. Just as the typical German isn't an antisemitic bigot. Just as the typical isn't .
In fact, I'd prefer that the US kept it's nose out of the affairs of the rest of the world and that the rest of the world kept their noses out of ours.
MS says that from now on the user will get asked if it's ok to access the address book. Will this be via pop-up window, or some other method. I'm going to assume that it's a pop-up window.
The vulnerability is from VBA, now if someone is able to write a VBA app which can scan your address book why wouldn't this app be able to select the "OK" button when windows asks the user if it's ok to access the addressbook?
What if the password protect it? The target audience for windows HATES security, because it's a hassle. They'd have to actually remember their passwords! So if they do password protect it do you think that they'd add a "save my password" checkbox to the prompt? If they do we fall back into the VBA vulnerability.
This reminds me of an episode of G.I. Joe, the one where Cobra Commander had his face carved into the moon using this big ass laser. Only to be foiled when Quick Kick touches up his artwork with a smiley face so that he can mack some honey.
Imagine a starburst patter on the surface of the moon, as I understand it the surface is mostly dust. The shockwave from a nuclear blast would blow the dust out in all directions from ground zero. Imagine a pie pan full of flour (enriched or not) take a drinking straw and blow a short burst of air right above the center of the pan, you should get a similar effect.
Now THAT'S dick waving on a new scale. "Ha ha ha, we're so technologically advanced that we've permanently altered the lanscape of a 4 billion year old object. What did YOU do today?"
Slashdot Mirror
The MacOS is not a fixed entity. System 1 that shipped back in 1984 is completely unrecognizeable compared to MacOS 9.0.4, there is a process by which it has evolved. The MacOS is, by definition, the OS that Apple makes for Macs.
LK
OK, so assume he leaves you three bucks on the seat to cover the cost of the gas, the wear on the tyres, and the general depreciation of the vehicle whilst he was driving it.
I've already stated the circumstances under which I would consider it to not be theft. If the car were not altered in any way. Then one could argue that it is not theft.
LK
Is it OK to break into a bank computer and transfer funds from a rich person's account to yours?
You're talking about taking a tangible thing. Money. A stack of bills. Even though the banks computer is only a representation, the actual thing is REAL. If it were possible to COPY that money instead of take it, one could make the case that it isn't stealing.
If I go into H&R block, have them do my taxes, sneak over to a xerox machine, and then make a copy of the return they wrote, throw the original in their face, and walk out without paying, is that theft?
Yes, because that work was done for you. If however someone else who made the exact same amount of money as you and had the exact same deductions as you went to H&R Block and had his taxes done and you copied his return replacing his info with your own, that would NOT be theft.
I have another one for you. Is recording a file off of the radio theft? If so why isn't the RIAA suing Sony, Daewoo, Panasonic, Aiwa and others for making radios with cassette decks which can record songs from radio broadcasts?
You do not seem to understand the massive fixed cost of producing music, and seem to believe the marginal cost outweights it, but that isn't even really the point.
It doesn't matter if it's $1,000,000 per second or free. Making an unauthorized copy may be illegal but it's not theft.
Ah, a moral relativist. Just what we need more of. "There are no truths in society, and people are too helpless to be held to absolutes." Right.
Morality is subjective. In some societies fornication is a great faux pas, but in others it's a requirement. Laws are absolute, morals are not.
Theft is universally considered a crime almost on par with murder.
We're not talking about theft here.
Copyright infringment has nothing to do with morals, it is law.
You're correct. I have never disputed the illegality of making unauthorized copies of someone else's material.
The moral corollary of copyright infringement is theft.
Why? Because you say so? Bootlegging is more akin to theft than piracy will ever be.
LK
As to the substance of your point about 'what stealing is', consider this small Gedankenexperiment, consider the man who breaks into your car whilst its parked outside the office, and takes it for a drive around the city, kindly returning it to the car park after he's finished with it, and before you come out of work. Theft, or not theft?
Theft. Because they car has been altered while it was gone. It's not the same. There is more wear on the car. There is less "life" left in it, when it's returned.
If he were to carefully load it onto the back of a flatbed truck and cover it up and drive the truck around town and return it in the exact same condition then that would not be theft.
LK
Napster is theft by any definition of the word.
... Have you stolen the sales tax from the state? After all if you made your own you didn't have to pay sales tax on it.
Your use of the word Napster in the above context illustrates to me that you have no idea what Napster is.
The RIAA, record companies, Metallica and Dr. Dre are suing Napster because they know that they have deeper pockets and can outlast them in court. It's like when someone tries to buy the pot in a game of poker.
It would be precisely akin to refusing to pay a barber for a haircut. Have you stolen something? Yes! You have stolen services.
You are incorrect. It would be more akin to borrowing the BOSS shirt of a friend and making a copy of it in your basement. You've refused to pay Hugo Boss for the time he took to design the original. You've refused to pay a big department store for one of the originals. You've refused to pay for shipping and
This isn't the point however. Copyright infringement is an illegal practice, but it is NOT theft. Is it morally wrong? I can't decide that for everyone. I can only choose for me. People have differing opinions about whether it's morally wrong to have an abortion or own a gun. Why is this any different?
LK
You raise a good point. It's not theft. That's akin to the BSA assuming that every piece of software that gets pirated would have been bought if it wasn't pirated. Granted some of it would have been, but not nearly all of it. I don't believe that if Napster didn't exist these people would be buying the CDs from which they've gotten their gigabyte MP3 collections.
Just like with Napster. If you downloaded a song, you may have broken the law by infringing on someone's copyright but you haven't stolen anything.
Stealing is when person A has object X. Person B comes along, and without permission from the rightful owner of object X, takes object X. Person B now has posession of object X and person A no longer has object X.
LK
Napster explicitly bans the use of bots.
If you're breaking the usage agreement of Napster by running this bot, then doesn't that make you as bad as the people ripping off music?
LK
Carmack's change of heart came within months after Apple scrapped Copeland and announced Rhapsody. Everyone was expecting Apple to snap up Be and incorporate BeOS into the MacOS, but instead they grabbed NeXT. Within a year Rhapsody (later to become MacOS X) was announced. Shortly thereafter is when Carmack changed his mind.
What do I care anyway? I'm done buying id games anyway. DeathMatch Du Jour with nothing new but spiffed up graphics isn't groundreaking or even noteworthy.
Quake like type games are more innovative than the originals. Half-Life for example was far more original than Q2 or Q3. Carmack and id are just living off of the hype from previous successes.
LK
Apple is no more getting rid of MacOS than Microsoft is getting rid of windows9x. They're keeping the best parts and replacing the worst parts to make MacOS X.(Why not call it Mac OS 10 if we're supposed to pronounce it that way?)
Steve was the boss at NeXT when he was ousted from Apple.
LK
I lost all respect for him long ago. I remember once he said that he had "No respect for the MacOS" and that he wouldn't do any development for that platform. Yet after a few minutes with Steve Jobs he's all gung ho apple.
Although I was disappointed because at the time I was an apple enthusiast. I would have had more respect for Carmack if he had either stuck to his guns or given a good reason for his change of heart.
LK
Some people want that. Not naming any names, some politicos would rather have mob rule. The opinion makers on the other side of the TV screen know that they can manipulate people into believing just about anything that they want.
LK
Try again, geezers vote democratic for the most part. That's why the Dems pulled the mediscare scam in the early 90s, to keep their base loyal.
For under $300 I was able to wire my entire house for 10/100 ethernet. The largest part of that bill was the ~$190 that I paid for the 10/100 switching hub.
I have been thinking about throwing up a page documenting the process.
LK
If you were paying attention you'd have seen that it was directed towards both Lars AND Katz.
LK
Katz:"Lars, what do you think is the driving force behind the opensource MP3 dominated, internet freedom, napsterized,internet and natalie portman influenced, hellmouth paradigm shift?"
Lars:"It's like, well you know when, sometimes you just have to, and since I don't know too much about those types of things. On the other hand James and Jason think that, well that's not exactly accurate, there was once this time that we all took this think and did stuff with it. That isn't really important here because, you know what? My dad just got this AOL account and I used up all of his free hours then he was all like, "Lars, those were MY free hours!" and I like blew him off about the whole thing. I have a little dreidle, I made it out of clay, and when it's dry and ready, with dreidle I will play. Um, what? Oh, oh, oh, the technology thingie? My managers, like said that it was, um bad for me or something so I, uh think that ahhh , I'm against it. I think?"
LK
Daystar Genesis MP systems had up to four 200mhz ppc604 processors, The Umax S900, the PowerMac 9500 180MP and the Powermac 9600 200 MP each had two ppc604 processors. It was round about 4 years ago that MP MacOS machines started to ship. There was an extension and a photoshop plugin that allowed programs to take advantage of the extra CPUs.
The MacOS can use multiple threads right now. Although it's all done through cooperative MT, it does (kind of) work. Through used hardware dealers you can still get MP CPU cards for older PCI macs.
The bottom line is still this, the MacOS doesn't explicitly support SMP but extra processors can still be used for increased processing power.
LK
They could make it a company that survives by selling it's product to Microsoft's OS division. Hell, they might just lease office space from and pay money to Microsoft's Application division for outsourcing services to have their programmers work on the product.
LK
I want to be good at solving problems. I want to be the guy that people call when all of their IT guys get stumped. I want to see a BIG RED speed dial button on the telephone of every manager with whom I work that says "KANO" on it.
I am not nearly that good yet, but I'm working on it. I want to be the guy who gets called to testify before congress when some IT related legislation is under consideration. "Yeah, Kano, this is Senator Lott again. We need your input on the new internet regulations package that we're working on. Oh by the way, my laptop is runnig great now, thanks."
That's my goal. I want to learn as much as I possibly can given my potential and need for a real life outside of work.
LK
Am I the only one who thinks that this is not good?
7 years ago when I first got on the internet through college, there were no big corporate web sites. AOL and Compu$erve only had email gateways to the internet. They couldn't FTP or gopher. Now everyone and his mother (literally) is getting onto the internet. It's funny that the more of these clueless newbies get on the internet the more of a call we have for regulation.
The latest virus scare is the perfect example. People buy new computers preloaded with windows. They don't understand that they have a choice other than Outlook/Express for their e-mail. Many new targets for a VBA e-mail virus. Virus strikes, and we have media pundits asking politicos what the governments of the world can do to make the internet safer for the children.
I realize that the party's over, it's not "our thing" anymore, but why in the name of Bool are you celebrating that?
LK
Do you know why the NRA is so powerful?
1. Because there are about 3.5 million members who are willing to give $25 per year each to the NRA to fight for them.
2. Because those 3.5 million NRA members are MUCH more likely to vote than the average American. Out of all Americans somewhere between 50 million and 60 million actually vote. If you're a politician who is running close to his opponent in the polls it's in your best interest NOT to piss them off.
And, yes I AM advocating the use of guns, ballots, dollars and every other legal means to affect positive change.
LK
It isn't semantics. It's not like a typo. If that was a crime I'd be on death row. It's an outright misrepresentation.
I invented the internet.
I am descended from Captain Kidd.
LK
The guy was my great-great-...-great uncle, ok?
If he was your great...........uncle, then he wasn't one of your ancestors. One of his siblings was.
LK
You make some good points, the American public education system is a joke. Our students are the least capable in math and science out of all of the students from the industrialized world.
If one relies solely on what one is taught in our schools, that person is lost. However, our universities produce some of the most competant professionals on the planet.
Our public education systems churns out semi-literate, semi-educated consumeroids. However not all of us are beer bellied football junkies.
Where does the majority of the world's software development occur? Why? Because we've got the economic resources to draw the best and brightest from around the world, foreign and domestic.
Where did the power of the atom firse get harnessed? Why? Because our free society didn't allow any antisemitic dictator to drive the best jewish minds away and into the hands of the enemy.
Back to my point though, the typical american today isn't the undereducated buffon that for some reason seems to dominate all of our entertainment productions. Just as the typical German isn't an antisemitic bigot. Just as the typical isn't .
In fact, I'd prefer that the US kept it's nose out of the affairs of the rest of the world and that the rest of the world kept their noses out of ours.
LK
MS says that from now on the user will get asked if it's ok to access the address book. Will this be via pop-up window, or some other method. I'm going to assume that it's a pop-up window.
The vulnerability is from VBA, now if someone is able to write a VBA app which can scan your address book why wouldn't this app be able to select the "OK" button when windows asks the user if it's ok to access the addressbook?
What if the password protect it? The target audience for windows HATES security, because it's a hassle. They'd have to actually remember their passwords! So if they do password protect it do you think that they'd add a "save my password" checkbox to the prompt? If they do we fall back into the VBA vulnerability.
Get eudora and forget about outlook.
LK
This reminds me of an episode of G.I. Joe, the one where Cobra Commander had his face carved into the moon using this big ass laser. Only to be foiled when Quick Kick touches up his artwork with a smiley face so that he can mack some honey.
Imagine a starburst patter on the surface of the moon, as I understand it the surface is mostly dust. The shockwave from a nuclear blast would blow the dust out in all directions from ground zero. Imagine a pie pan full of flour (enriched or not) take a drinking straw and blow a short burst of air right above the center of the pan, you should get a similar effect.
Now THAT'S dick waving on a new scale. "Ha ha ha, we're so technologically advanced that we've permanently altered the lanscape of a 4 billion year old object. What did YOU do today?"
LK