Let me guess: you fucked up, but rather than stay silent or admit that you fucked up, you're simply going to run with this, logic and reason be damned.
I don't see why an artificially created human embryo would not eventually develop a soul (i.e. thoughts, feelings, identity, etc.) like a natural human embryo. If the structure is the same, I don't see why the outcome would be any different.
The original poster was talking about a soul, not consciousness or sentience.
I think these two questions would be better if they were turned around: why wouldn't an artificially created human embryo develop unto a sapient being (assuming the artificial construction was within certain fault tolerances)? Why wouldn't an artificially created human embryo develop into an adult exhibiting the same human nature as the rest of us?
You're arguing against something that was never proposed.
And I don't consider Middle East culture very different from Western culture.
Hohohohohoohh. Hahahahahahahhahah. You have got to be shitting me.
They still have families, two sexes, communicate via speech and writing, need meaning in their lives and deaths, suffer illness, etc. I see no real difference in motivation or behavior.
Yep, because that's exactly all there is to human behavior and culture. Aztec civilization was exactly like ours, too!
Ah, so now there's only one possible way for people to behave (as defined by you)?
Seems to me that there's greater error in assuming that somehow they are greatly different because of minor differences in beliefs, customs, and circumstances.
These rules are the excuse, the justification for horrid crimes.
No, the rules are simply the rules and these people enforce them because they believe in them. Why project a secular Western mindset on people who don't have one and assume that their religiousness is just smoke and mirrors?
The only difference is what excuse these regimes use to justify their crimes. In soviet it was political ideology. In Iran it is religion. In Zimbabwe it is skin colour.
What makes you think they're excuses? In the case of Islamic fundamentalists there are no excuses, they sincerely believe they're doing God's work. You may not agree with them but that doesn't change their beliefs.
I meant I can't see how "Muslims do whatever the hell they feel like doing," as you asserted.
So you can't understand how it's possible for Muslims to ignore the law because they don't give two shits about it?
Religion vs. culture: religion is the reason for the hijab, culture for female circumcision. It does matter.
I didn't even mention FGM.
Plus, condemning a culture can be fairly narrow, whereas condemning "Islam" (in reality, two separate religions, plus a separate mystical tradition) demonises 20% of the population of the world.
Condemning Nazism is wrong because it demonizes so many people.
You claimed Islam and Christianity are entirely different religions. That's what I replied to. If you meant to say "cultures," that's a different argument. That's fine. But please use your turn signals when changing course.
Why would I have meant to say cultures? I was talking about religion.
That was what you said. I couldn't see how, why, where, or when it was true. I may have been a little overblown in my response. Melodrama as a way to provoke debate, I suppose. Would you care to elaborate on your original statement?
You can't see how, why, where or when Muslims have to follow the same laws as everyone else?
Would you like to prop up your unfounded declaration, or should I just knock it down now?
Yes, because a website built entirely on theory, wishful thinking and historical revisionism is surely enough to disprove the day-to-day reality of terrorism, honor killings, religious supremacism, intolerance, oppression and mindless rage.
Has the US Supreme Court declared Muslims unprosecutable, and the whole internet (bar you, of course) missed it? Or are you implying an entire religion, with 20% of the world's population as members, have no conscience?
Or have I completely misunderstood you? Possibly, I'm not at my sharpest at the moment. So apologies if I've slandered you. I hope I have, I really do.
I have no idea how this is even related to what you're replying to.
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- A gang of Pakistani militants executed two alleged U.S. spies in front of thousands of cheering supporters Friday as a top U.N. official expressed fears that Pakistani government peace deals with the gunmen were sparking a wave of human rights abuses. At least 5,000 people gathered by a stream in the Bajur region to watch the executions, which highlighted the power of local Taliban forces in the lawless tribal areas near the Afghan border.
Thousands of cheering supporters. But hey, I guess it doesn't count since I don't personally know them, right? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
It's obvious to me now that you a) have a chip on your shoulder with regards to Muslims (irony in its purest form) and b) know very few or perhaps even none.
a) Of course I do, but how is that ironic? b) There are over one billion Muslims in the world. What does it matter if you personally know a couple of them? Also, what would you say if I stated that most Muslims are violent thugs because I know a few Muslims who are violent thugs? Would it not be exactly the same as saying that most Muslims are moderates because you know a few Muslims who are moderate?
There are no other explanations for how you can both be so far from reality and so adamant in your view.
Should America and other Western societies fail to prevent that from happening, it will be just as dangerous.
No. Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different religions. The results would not be the same.
It is subdued by rule of law, not benign and harmless.
The same laws apply to Muslims, but that doesn't stop them from doing whatever the hell they feel like doing.
The Christian/biblical principle of an eye for an eye is how warlords escalate their acrimony to a point beyond control and reason.
"Eye for an eye" is not a principle that's commonly in use in the Western world, and certainly not something that most people consider to be a part of modern Christianity. It was not even invented by Christians or Jews, since it's a pretty basic human response. Also, I think you're misunderstanding what "eye for an eye" means.
Hatred is hatred.
Is hating evildoers morally equal to hating completely innocent people?
It's a far bigger drop than the one most westerners base their views on.
But not enough. The Internet can provide more information about the subject in a day than one person can accumulate in a lifetime by just wandering around.
I don't see how people can quite happily believe that Fox News lies about the dangers from music piracy and hackers, yet completely swallow without question the FUD regarding Islam in the face of absolutely zero evidence that can be observed in real life.
I don't watch Fox News.
Your point? There are plenty of Westerners living in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, former USSR states, South America etc who get all uppity and angry about problems they see with the place they are living compared to what they're used to back home.
This is different. Muslim immigrants in Europe aggressively oppose the very societies they live in and seek to destroy or warp them. They have zero respect for the laws, customs and values of the native population, and actively work to subvert them.
Actually, I think my point was that those millions don't hate "The West", they hate western governments propping up local tinpot dictators like the Saudis.
No, they oppose Western civilization in general (not to say that non-Western infidels aren't on their shitlist as well).
Great. Law of the jungle, might is right. Lets all stand up and beat our chests like a bunch of primordial apes, lest the Other Side think we're weak.
I don't know *anyone* (with the possible exception of that crazy lunatic in charge of Iran, who is about as representative of Iranians as the Saudi royals are of the Saudi people) who thinks the West is some evil regime that needs to be toppled.
Your limited personal experiences are a drop in the ocean, and cannot adequately cover a population of over one billion. I might as well say that there aren't any Koreans who hate Japan or the US because I've never met one (in fact, I have never personally met a single Korean).
Heck, I live in a Western country quite happily.
But many others don't (such as Muslim immigrants in Europe).
I've traveled extensively to Middle eastern countries and (remember I'm Muslim, with Muslim friends and relative and we all travel to Muslim countries, so I'm not pulling this out my backside) it's utter BS that Muslims have some kind of chip on their shoulder with regards to the West.
Oh, right. Well, I guess we'd better just ignore all those millions of people who hate the West, since you're here to assure us that everything is okay.
Oh, and we don't need the U.S. to come in and "liberate" the place. Just butting out will do the trick. They'll save the hundreds of millions spent on military support and they'll make friends of the majority of the Arabian peninsula to boot. Bargain!
Concessions and friendly gestures do not work, they are simply a sign of weakness and submission. Israel knows this very well, and so do many people in Europe.
Don't you mean: Like a disease, the threat of Fundamentalism will not go away,...... Why pick on Islam?
Because it's the most dangerous form of fundamentalism in existence. Christian fundamentalists are very benign and harmless compared to their Muslim counterparts, and they consitute a very miniscule portion of the global population, being mostly confined to the US. They can only dream of having the same kind of influence and popular support that Muslim "fundamentalists" have in Islamic societies.
The only place where they're winning the war of ideals is among Muslims, but it's not much of a contest so saying that they're winning is a bit redundant. Among everyone else, they're just terrorists and madmen who should be sent back to circa 600 AD in a time bubble.
This is just more made-up generalized bullshit to get the easily-influenced people to go with more government spending on counteracting the nonexistent problem of terrorism. When was the last time terrorism was in your back yard? When did it affect you personally? How often is it happening?
Terrorists are caught all the time in the US and elsewhere in the Western world. I also wouldn't say the 9/11, Madrid and London attacks constitute a "nonexistent" problem. Outside the Western world, Islamic terrorism is a much bigger problem, with many people dying on a daily basis. Since 9/11, there have been over 10,000 attacks all over the world (that's a low estimate).
There are many problems that don't directly affect me, but that doesn't mean they aren't problems. I don't suffer from poverty, hunger or disease, but obviously a lot of other people do.
And.. if it did affect you, chances are that your back yard is in Iraq..
Or in Thailand, Lebanon, Algeria, Chechnya, Pakistan, Somalia, Israel, Bangladesh, India... Islamic terrorism is a bit more widespread than you think.
The government keeps pushing 'Our enemy is huge, organized, centralized, and powerful' but we are seeing more and more than 'Our enemy is a disorganized populace tired of what the US is doing.'
Both are true. There are many organizations and networks, but there are also people who act on their own initiative. The terrorists aren't "tired of what the US is doing," they're Jihadists. They're fighting a holy war against infidels and heretics, a holy war that has been more or less in progress for the past 1600 years. The amount of Islamic terrorism occuring in or against the US is a drop in the ocean, unless you count Afghanistan and Iraq.
Those damn Jews. They're probably the ones who stole my bicycle a few months ago. They're stockpiling bicycles because when bicycles are outlawed only the Jews will have them, and then the New World Order will begin.
Now it all makes sense.
Slashdot Mirror
Let me guess: you fucked up, but rather than stay silent or admit that you fucked up, you're simply going to run with this, logic and reason be damned.
What if it's engineered to be infertile? In fact, what about normal humans who are infertile? Are they not actually human?
The original poster was talking about a soul, not consciousness or sentience.
You're arguing against something that was never proposed.
Hohohohohoohh. Hahahahahahahhahah. You have got to be shitting me.
Yep, because that's exactly all there is to human behavior and culture. Aztec civilization was exactly like ours, too!
Ah, so now there's only one possible way for people to behave (as defined by you)?
Minor? Try "polar opposite."
I'm in Finland but I'm using OpenDNS. The site works fine.
No, the rules are simply the rules and these people enforce them because they believe in them. Why project a secular Western mindset on people who don't have one and assume that their religiousness is just smoke and mirrors?
They're not excuses.
What makes you think they're excuses? In the case of Islamic fundamentalists there are no excuses, they sincerely believe they're doing God's work. You may not agree with them but that doesn't change their beliefs.
No such thing in Finland. I can upload and download 24/7 without any restrictions, and I've never heard of any ISP enforcing a cap.
You're using a lame excuse to withdraw because you know you're cornered.
So you can't understand how it's possible for Muslims to ignore the law because they don't give two shits about it?
I didn't even mention FGM.
Condemning Nazism is wrong because it demonizes so many people.
Why would I have meant to say cultures? I was talking about religion.
You can't see how, why, where or when Muslims have to follow the same laws as everyone else?
You're deliberately missing the point because you know I'm right.
Also, I don't remember saying that I support the imaginary "US rampage all over the middle east."
Yes, because a website built entirely on theory, wishful thinking and historical revisionism is surely enough to disprove the day-to-day reality of terrorism, honor killings, religious supremacism, intolerance, oppression and mindless rage.
I have no idea how this is even related to what you're replying to.
No, I'm afraid they're not fundamentalist Christians.
Thousands of cheering supporters. But hey, I guess it doesn't count since I don't personally know them, right? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
a) Of course I do, but how is that ironic?
b) There are over one billion Muslims in the world. What does it matter if you personally know a couple of them? Also, what would you say if I stated that most Muslims are violent thugs because I know a few Muslims who are violent thugs? Would it not be exactly the same as saying that most Muslims are moderates because you know a few Muslims who are moderate?
How am I far from reality?
No. Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different religions. The results would not be the same.
The same laws apply to Muslims, but that doesn't stop them from doing whatever the hell they feel like doing.
"Eye for an eye" is not a principle that's commonly in use in the Western world, and certainly not something that most people consider to be a part of modern Christianity. It was not even invented by Christians or Jews, since it's a pretty basic human response. Also, I think you're misunderstanding what "eye for an eye" means.
Is hating evildoers morally equal to hating completely innocent people?
But not enough. The Internet can provide more information about the subject in a day than one person can accumulate in a lifetime by just wandering around.
I don't watch Fox News.
This is different. Muslim immigrants in Europe aggressively oppose the very societies they live in and seek to destroy or warp them. They have zero respect for the laws, customs and values of the native population, and actively work to subvert them.
No, they oppose Western civilization in general (not to say that non-Western infidels aren't on their shitlist as well).
That's not what I said.
What does it matter that you're a Muslim?
Your limited personal experiences are a drop in the ocean, and cannot adequately cover a population of over one billion. I might as well say that there aren't any Koreans who hate Japan or the US because I've never met one (in fact, I have never personally met a single Korean).
But many others don't (such as Muslim immigrants in Europe).
Oh, right. Well, I guess we'd better just ignore all those millions of people who hate the West, since you're here to assure us that everything is okay.
Concessions and friendly gestures do not work, they are simply a sign of weakness and submission. Israel knows this very well, and so do many people in Europe.
Because it's the most dangerous form of fundamentalism in existence. Christian fundamentalists are very benign and harmless compared to their Muslim counterparts, and they consitute a very miniscule portion of the global population, being mostly confined to the US. They can only dream of having the same kind of influence and popular support that Muslim "fundamentalists" have in Islamic societies.
The only place where they're winning the war of ideals is among Muslims, but it's not much of a contest so saying that they're winning is a bit redundant. Among everyone else, they're just terrorists and madmen who should be sent back to circa 600 AD in a time bubble.
Terrorists are caught all the time in the US and elsewhere in the Western world. I also wouldn't say the 9/11, Madrid and London attacks constitute a "nonexistent" problem. Outside the Western world, Islamic terrorism is a much bigger problem, with many people dying on a daily basis. Since 9/11, there have been over 10,000 attacks all over the world (that's a low estimate). There are many problems that don't directly affect me, but that doesn't mean they aren't problems. I don't suffer from poverty, hunger or disease, but obviously a lot of other people do.
Or in Thailand, Lebanon, Algeria, Chechnya, Pakistan, Somalia, Israel, Bangladesh, India... Islamic terrorism is a bit more widespread than you think.
Both are true. There are many organizations and networks, but there are also people who act on their own initiative. The terrorists aren't "tired of what the US is doing," they're Jihadists. They're fighting a holy war against infidels and heretics, a holy war that has been more or less in progress for the past 1600 years. The amount of Islamic terrorism occuring in or against the US is a drop in the ocean, unless you count Afghanistan and Iraq.
Those damn Jews. They're probably the ones who stole my bicycle a few months ago. They're stockpiling bicycles because when bicycles are outlawed only the Jews will have them, and then the New World Order will begin. Now it all makes sense.