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In Japan, a 900 Gigabyte Upload Cap, Downloads Uncapped

Raindeer writes "While the Broadband Bandits of the US are contemplating bandwidth caps between 5 gigabyte and 40 gigabyte per month, the largest telco in Japan has gone ahead and laid down some heavy caps for Japan's broadband addicts. From now on, if you upload more than 30 gigabyte per day, your network connection may be disconnected. Just think of it ... if you're in Japan and want to upload the HD movie you shot of yesterday's wedding, you soon might hit the limit. The downloaders do not face similar problems."

368 comments

  1. Seriously? by deckert_za · · Score: 1, Redundant
    Seriousy?

    Is the author bemoaning the 900GB CAP or praising it? Where I live, with a 3GB CAP (in total) per month, I truely admire what they have in Japan. Even with the CAP.

    --deckert

    1. Re:Seriously? by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      Note to all future submitters and to the editors.

      From now on, please add *lt;SARCASM> tags for the sarcasm-impaired.

      Thank you.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Seriously? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 5, Funny

      Catching the subtleties isn't really your thing, huh?

      Personally, if I have to live with the connectivity options in the US for actually being able to see genitals in my porn, I'll consider it a fair trade.

    3. Re:Seriously? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      I agree, 900GB of upload is just huge for a residential account, you're more than just running a personal server at that point.

    4. Re:Seriously? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, really. I mean, my peak usage last year was 54 gb one month ... usually I'm around 25-30. I'm on Comcast and since they won't tell me anything about how much I can download without being stigmatized as a "bandwidth hog" I try to keep it under fifty. If I had 900 Gb down / 30 Gb up I'd say it was a good deal.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where the hell do you live that you have a 3GB cap per month?

    6. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Notice that the limit is 30GB PER DAY, making it 900GB per month UPLOAD limit.

      There is no download limit, as mentioned in article and summary.

    7. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other side, due to such censoring, Japanese porn does make for better whatching. Here in the US, its all about "get naked, YAY", which gets totally boring after a while. So fair trade indeed, you get better deals in both departments in my book.

    8. Re:Seriously? by jawtheshark · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The submitter is making fun of the US.... is that so hard to understand? Back in the day when broadband was introduced in the country I live, it was 256kbps/64kbps down no caps.... Compared to other countries (with and without caps) that was pretty much just above dialup. I mean, I had ISDN before that which could do 128kbps/128kbps. The difference? Flatrate... ISDN was per minute for ADSL, I paid one fix price per month. A 900GB cap would do nothing to me because the always-on aspect to me is the most important part of broadband to me.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    9. Re:Seriously? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whatching? Is that some fiendish portmanteau of whacking and watching? You Japanese porn fans are weird in so very many ways...

    10. Re:Seriously? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      I'd guess that he uses either satalite or cellular.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    11. Re:Seriously? by GumphMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Australia. Debateably not a third-world backwater.

      (Almost) All residential DSL/Cable data services in Australia have a cap. If you are daft enough to use the defacto monopoly provider's retail services then you get a small cap, high price, and both in- and outbound data count. Until recently, their cap was 1 or 3 GB with a ridiculous per MB charge for excess...they still sell grandma and grandpa (read sucker) accounts with 200 or 400 megabyte limits. I think haemorrhaging customers to the competition, and being forced to play nice by the ACCC, is starting to change their ways.

      Bigpond's offerings

      Most everyone else counts only inbound traffic.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    12. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful bud, if you get used to it that way you'll be forced to ask any (unlikely) future girl friend to hold a black strip of paper in front of her junk to get off.

    13. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      What the hell is satalite? Some form of slower than normal SATA? Or one that uses a "Lite" cable? Less filling on the grommets? Come on, inquiring minds want to know.

    14. Re:Seriously? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    15. Re:Seriously? by Hes+Nikke · · Score: 1

      Caps Are Pagan?
      Cabbage And Peanuts?
      Carpets Around Packages?

      I can't figure out what this CAP acronym is... anyone have any ideas?

      --
      Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
    16. Re:Seriously? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 1

      How in God's name does the first post get named redundant?

    17. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps because the whole "first post" thing is really old. Perhaps because someone shouted" first post yesterday, and the day before.

    18. Re:Seriously? by vidarh · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I can see why you find having sex with a girl "unlikely" if you go around referring to their genitals as "junk"...

    19. Re:Seriously? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't figure out what this CAP acronym is... anyone have any ideas?

      CAP is a recursive acronym for "CAP Acronym? Please!". Hope that has enlightened you :)

    20. Re:Seriously? by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      Caps are better than in the US where its unlimited unless you download too much.

      Thankyou ACCC for keeping it fair.

    21. Re:Seriously? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Funny

      I moved from Australia to Sweden last year.

      Me: "What's my bandwidth cap?"

      Swedish ISP Tech Support Guy: "What's a 'bandwidth cap'?"

      Me: :)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    22. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! Your UID is OVER 9000!!!

    23. Re:Seriously? by drspliff · · Score: 1

      Compare that to my peak usage of ~300+gb a month a few times a year... and this is all on a basic 20mbit cable connection...

    24. Re:Seriously? by trawg · · Score: 1

      Every time someone whines about the low limits I bring up the story of my grandfather, who - until about a year ago - was happily on a 300mb BigPond broadband cable plan for maybe 3-4 years.

      He simple did not need any more data. He used his Internet for light usage - checking the weather, reading emails, etc.

      I would constantly point out the dangers of going over quota and getting huge bills (a common problem for many people) and he would just tell me its not a problem and he checks his data usage.

      Lots of people don't need to download hundreds of gigabytes a month. They just don't. Smaller bandwidth quotas on cheaper plans make sense. The only lame thing is the excess charges are really high when the connection should just get shaped.

      (He's an amazing guy - got his first PC at age ~77 and of all the relatives I've ever had, he's the only one I've never had to provide tech support for, because he actually reads the manuals. )

    25. Re:Seriously? by robo.cowp · · Score: 4, Informative

      What you say is true, but perhaps a little misleading. Telstra may have outrageously expensive plans with caps so small you daren't send more than one ping request...but the others are fine. I've been on a 36GB quota (throttled to 128K/s if you go over) for the last few years, and I'm not paying the earth... Sure, there are some horrible plans out there, but maybe just don't choose those ones...

      --
      resist. unlearn. defy.
    26. Re:Seriously? by _KiTA_ · · Score: 1

      I agree, 900GB of upload is just huge for a residential account, you're more than just running a personal server at that point.

      Actually, at that point you're probably running a Share or Perfect Dark connection.

      You know you're talking about Serious P2P when the MINIMUM upload speed is 100KB/sec, and the minimum cache folder size is 40GB.

      With connections like that in Japan, though, no freaking wonder.

    27. Re:Seriously? by yanyan · · Score: 2, Funny

      LOLCAP is in j00r t00bs, eatin up your bandwidthz.

    28. Re:Seriously? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      MRTG says I'm averaging 117.7 kB/s outbound on my router/firewall WAN port over the past few months. A little math gives us:

      117.7 * 1000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30.4375 = 309,527,460,000 bytes/month

      That over 300GB/month upload, and it's only using 6.3% of my connection (15Mbps symmetric), so I could see how 900GB/month might be limiting somebody who has 100Mbps upload speeds.

    29. Re:Seriously? by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Having a known cap is better than having an unknown cap. Having a cap measured in the hundreds of megabytes per month is utter bullshit regardless of whether you know the number or not. Hell, I'll often download five gigs in a day when screwing around with a linux distro or something. With an automated system-wide backup service (Mozy) and a camera that takes 14MB shots at 6.5FPS I'll often saturate my upload for a day or two at a time getting things synced up (even a reasonably respectable 1Mbit upload by US standards takes a LONG time to push 5-6GB).

      Point being that I simply couldn't function with a 10GB monthly cap, let alone 1GB. While I may be a fairly heavy bandwidth user, I'm really not doing anything unreasonable. Obviously my five bucks a month online backup service would be useless if it cost me fifty bucks in overage fees.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    30. Re:Seriously? by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      You'll always get companies trying to scam you.

      TPG gives good limits.
      I'm on a Unlimited Business account with them.

    31. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, it's you're glossing over the fact that it's not fair to compare Australia to Japan. Australia has a massive geographical size, with a small population, who is spread out. Japan roughly fits in a shoebox and has 144 million people.

      It's somewhat easier to build an infrastructure that only runs a few dozen kilometres and services a million people than one that runs a few thousand kilometres and services 10 people...

    32. Re:Seriously? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      But at least we get what we pay for.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    33. Re:Seriously? by Keen+Anthony · · Score: 1

      I watch censored Japanese porn for the interesting articles!

      I can understand what you're getting at, I think. American porn is dominated by the gonzo filmmaking style, and it's really getting old; and while studios like Vivid still make story-driven adult films, these movies still encourage the heavy use of the fast-forward button. The Japanese have a completely different perspective and different taboos, and so it's refreshing to American viewers who are so used to the American formula that we can predict the choreography perfectly.

      Of course, this was really just an opportunity for me to say bukkake on /.

    34. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep I hate Telstra. I swear they've held back broadband in Australia due to them owning all nearly all the infrastructure and charging other companies a premium to rent the lines.

      One other extremely annoying thing for me is that I currently reside in Tasmania, and there's been a fibre optic cable linking us with the mainland for a few years now, but it's still not fucking lit. Now many ISP's are upping prices here and refusing to offer higher speed plans due to the cost of backhaul to the mainland. See here for more info: http://www.digitaltasmania.org/

    35. Re:Seriously? by miro+f · · Score: 1

      if you happen to live in an area with an ADSL2 exchange provided by anyone other than Telstra, then you're fine (comparatively. When compared to the rest of the world, you're still getting screwed)

      For those of us who live more than half an hour away from a major city, however, getting decently fast internet access without having a hobbling limit is impossible. I just have to sit on my current plan until some ISP upgrades the local exchange.

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    36. Re:Seriously? by mutrax · · Score: 1

      Indeed boo-hoo, in a ________* country like Belgium, a 12 whopping Gb's per month up _and_ downstream is considered normal. Perspective please.... (*:insert sarcasm here)

      --
      Freedom of choice, knowledge & life...
    37. Re:Seriously? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      It's the result of me accidentally adding that word to firefox's spellcheck. Anyone know how to remove stuff from that?

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    38. Re:Seriously? by dasmoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but if you ever try to ring them about anything you can't get anything out of them. I'll never pay money to an internet company that outsources support overseas. Internode have fair limits and have local support.

    39. Re:Seriously? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The problem (that especially ISPs are facing) is that as high bandwidth accounts become more common the number of high bandwidth applications increases too. These days using Youtube is common for many people, VoIP is getting more and more use and downloadable programs are bloating up into the hundreds of MBs range and that's before we count P2P. Emails and simple browsing can be done on 56k too, at least until websites bloat more and more (I think some already use an MB or 2 just for their flash stuff).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    40. Re:Seriously? by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Make sure you don't let slip who you are on? I mean, who would want that sort of information?

    41. Re:Seriously? by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      There is / has been such caps for our DSL plans though, but once you move to fiber optics (and why shouldn't you, if it's available where you live), you'll usually get both a more cost efficient subscription, more bandwidth (usually 10 or 100 Gbps up+down) as well as a lack of caps.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    42. Re:Seriously? by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Damn, sorry, mistyped the units there... Meant 10/100 Mbps, not Gbps. :-p On the usual cheap services that is, those that cost about 60 usd / month.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    43. Re:Seriously? by Barny · · Score: 1

      80GB/month internode here, and loving it

      10mb/s download and 500kb/s up

      They mirror sourceforge and all major linux and freeBSD and to top it off, give free giganews service to all broadband customers :)

      And if you call them for support, you speak to someone in your own country AND who knows what they are talking about.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    44. Re:Seriously? by Jellybob · · Score: 1

      It's where you pop up a window on someones computer, and persuade them to watch some porn by claiming to be their bank.

    45. Re:Seriously? by asvravi · · Score: 1

      Sarcasm is a very cultural thing. I observe people from US are infinitely more adept at communicating through sarcasm and humour compared to other countries or more eastern regions of the world. These other people in general adopt a more serious communicative posture. This becomes painfully obvious in cross-cultural meetings where subtle humour from a westerner draws straight faces from Japanese, Chinese or Indian audiences. The subtle sarcasm in this post was lost on me too until I read the parent comment.

    46. Re:Seriously? by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Sounds expensive, I'm in the outskirts of Gothenburg, paying about 43 USD for an uncapped 100/100 :)

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    47. Re:Seriously? by sigaar · · Score: 1

      Uhm, it was 900GB up - 30GB per day. Download is unlimited. You would need at least around 3mbit/s up-link to be able to achieve 30GB per day.

      --
      sigaar
    48. Re:Seriously? by skulgnome · · Score: 1

      Current CAP Acronym Proposal.

    49. Re:Seriously? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Sweden has one of the best networking, if not best, in the world. Goverment paid broadband cables to whole country and then allowed ISP's to use it for customers. Normal connection speed 10/10 or 100/100 is nice and there are that old woman who seems to have internet's "widest pipe" coming her home ;-)

    50. Re:Seriously? by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

      Did you tell the Swedish ISP Tech Support Guy it is a way to make sure there is a separate but equal sharing of bandwidth. IAP (CableCo/TelCo in the USA) based on dejure caprice and corporate-welfare dynamics are legally required fleece and service their customers/nation in any way possible.

      --
      Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
    51. Re:Seriously? by jessedorland · · Score: 1

      What the hack have you been downloading all this time? 900GB -- that's quite alot

      --
      Even veals have more autonomy!
    52. Re:Seriously? by jessedorland · · Score: 2, Funny

      At least he was able to tell you in English or Swedish that he didn't understand what you said. I had to call tech support when I bought this laptop, and asked if they can send me the missing software. he said "I'm shoory I doesn't know wut your aRe shaying.". It took two weeks to get someone who could understand English.

      --
      Even veals have more autonomy!
    53. Re:Seriously? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Delete the file from the Firefox directory?

      Seriously.. I don't know either, and I've added quite a few stupid misspellings. Why the hell is the "add" option so close to the bottom "word" option, anyway? and with no confirmation dialog.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    54. Re:Seriously? by sidnelson13 · · Score: 1

      Wow, and I thought Brazil's broadband plans were bad enough. At least here we can count on the ISP's incompetence to keep the caps.

      My plan is a mere 4Mbps/600kbps with a limit of 40GB, in and outbound, all together (please don't repeat what I said). If if go over the limit, they normally cap it to a 200kbps/200kbps, no extra charge (at least). But the thing is, my peak last month was about 200GB downloaded (280 if counting the upload too). And that's from monitoring using my router's (DD-WRT firmware) statistics.

      The ISP's error? To call before they cap. They always call me offering a higher broadband plan due to my excess. So, basically, I talk them over to allow me to think about it and get back to them due to the fact that I share my bills with a roommate, and I have to ask if he is ok with it. It doesn't work every time, but when it works, I enjoy 450KB/s downloads all month.

      Why? Well, I find that I can choose what I want o watch through downloading rather than keeping track of time schedules and dealing with commercials on cable. Also, the quality I get from videos on the Net are much better than the quality of my cable signal. So most of the series that I like (House, Eli Stone, My Name is Earl, The Big Bang Theory, Two and a Half Men, etc.), I download. And now that I bought a PS3, I stream my media to it through an UPnP (mediatomb) server running on my openSuSE machine. PS3 also adds the downloads of DEMOS and updates.

      It's much easier using the internet than dealing with cable companies and advertising.

    55. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, if I have to live with the connectivity options in the US for actually being able to see genitals in my porn, I'll consider it a fair trade.

      The really smart Japanese users consider it even fairer. You know who I mean, the ones who've figured out how to download uncensored porn.

    56. Re:Seriously? by compro01 · · Score: 1
      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    57. Re:Seriously? by Brain+Damaged+Bogan · · Score: 1

      only the old grannies without tech-savvy grandkids get ripped off like this... and there are fewer and fewer of them around. my plan is unlimited uploads and 65gig uploads split over peak - 25gb and offpeak-40gb i just wish that it was the other way around...

      --
      -- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
    58. Re:Seriously? by dmizer · · Score: 1

      So you seem to believe that the only porn you can download in Japan is created in Japan with Japanese censorship?

      And here I thought it was China who had the "Great firewall".

    59. Re:Seriously? by Squalish · · Score: 1

      There are ways to measure population density... and then there are ways to measure population density. Both Canada and Australia have vast plots of mostly empty territory, and most of the population huddled into relatively concentrated cities.

      Something along the lines of "Mean number of people within 1km of each household" seems like it deserves a complementary place alongside raw population density.

      Australia has less than 1/100th the population density of Japan - but the average Australian doesn't live in a wasteland, he lives in a place that the government designates as "urban" - along with 93% of his countrymen. In Japan, only 66% of the population is designated as living in an urban area.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    60. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *calls Comcast*
      Me: Hello, whats my bandwidth Cap

      Comcast guy: Whats a bandwidth cap?

      point not proven OP :)
    61. Re:Seriously? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I'm paying about 60 USD (SEK 349) a month for uncapped 24/3 DSL, but that includes the phone line and wifi modem/router. Can't get cable or fibre where I'm living right now. My only complaint is that all my machines have public IPs, which makes communications between machines within what ought to be my LAN slower and less secure.

      In Brisbane, I was paying about AUD 125 (about SEK 700) - also including phone line - for 3/1 capped at 10GB down per month.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    62. Re:Seriously? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Wow! Your UID is OVER 9000!!!

      And yours is NULL - your point being...?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    63. Re:Seriously? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Sweden has one of the best networking, if not best, in the world.

      All the better to net-tap you, my dear.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  2. First Post... Drat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Stupid 300 baud

    1. Re:First Post... Drat by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? I'm stuck using an RFC1149 connection. Let me tell you, path MTU discovery is a pain over that thing...

    2. Re:First Post... Drat by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      Could be worse. It could be IP over Evil Bit.

  3. Bandwidth cap? Not here by abstract+daddy · · Score: 3, Informative

    No such thing in Finland. I can upload and download 24/7 without any restrictions, and I've never heard of any ISP enforcing a cap.

    1. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Informative

      Agreed, Finland is a great country for file-sharing. And I've heard rumours that the network of HOAS (the Helsinki student housing association), managed by Sonera, is actually that firm's test network, where you can upload and download all the live-long day with the company's (tacit) blessing because all that activity is only going to helping them better calibrate their main network.

    2. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No such thing in Finland. I can upload and download 24/7 without any restrictions, and I've never heard of any ISP enforcing a cap.

      Well, of course: you can get broadband from any ISP you want, no matter who owns the phone line, so there's no monopoly problems like in the US.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    3. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by TeknoHog · · Score: 2, Informative

      Agreed, Finland is a great country for file-sharing.

      Yeah, if you forget about Lex Karpela, the local implementation of Euro-DMCA. And the Finreactor case.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does this work in Finland... Who owns & maintains the lines to each house?

      How do they avoid companies messing with competitor lines?

      Is broadband cheaper in Finland than in the US?

    5. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by empaler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In Denmark, there's a similar situation-that is, any ISP can a DSL connection over the copper owned by a former state-monopoly.
      The thing is, the ISPs make next to nothing on the leased lines. I'd bet that if you just call them once per month (question about a bill, complaint about speed or packet loss, other errors), those subscribers are producing red numbers.
      Of course, I don't know if the market is similar in Finland.

      Disclaimer: I have worked for one of the largest Danish ISPs, specifically with DSL.

    6. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by vidarh · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Same as in most of Europe: The company that owns the lines is required to offer equal access to any broadband provider at cost + a reasonable margin to allow them to recoup their investments and make a profit.

      The customer can then sign up with whichever ISP they want.

      In some countries (such as the UK) the ISPs are also guaranteed access at "cost plus" basis to the local exchanges, so that some ISPs actually offer faster DSL connections than the company that owns the lines (BT, who owns the lines in the UK offer max 8Mbps for example, while many ISPs offer 24Mbps DSL by placing their own equipment in the exchanges).

      It's what sane government regulation gets you.

    7. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      A lot of Argentinian ISPs tried to push a download/upload cap for ADSL a few years ago - the telcos (which still own the copper pair lines involved) installed hardware to monitor the bandwidth usage per user and charge an additional accordingly. Since ISPs licence the line use from them, they ended up passing the costs to the end user. The limit was ridiculously low, and the price for each additional Gb very steep. Controversy soon followed when the ISPs that sold "unlimited use" internet access started billing users who exceeded the caps. About one year later, they ended up having to remove them - the increasing popularity of Cable DSL had much to do with it aswell. We still have issues with ISPs - shitty service, poor performance, and speed capping for several ports are usual. But, we get to download what we want.

    8. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by tuomoks · · Score: 1

      This makes more sense than what we do have to our house - 5 cables! Started with XXXX back in 90's, did go through all the Ameritech, SBC, AT&T, etc and every time they changed owner/name - a new line? Actually the CLEC (and the connection, we have only one coming to town) has always been the same but they just insist installing a new line every time and there is nobody to take the old lines away? The funny thing - a storm took all the lines down and, guess what, SBC (or whoever..) did put all of them back - only one active of course? Must cost a bunch? The price has actually gone down over years, the speed has increased, stays up 24x7, no caps (as far as I know), so can't complain too much.

    9. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by korean.ian · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, it's the same over here in South Korea. I've never seen a hint of a cap in any of my talks with the ISPs....

    10. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's what sane government regulation gets you.

      Yeah, but you don't see the dark side of what that regulation gets you - universal healthcare, decent public transportation (compared to most of the US), lots of vacation time. Your wealthy people probably don't get anything like the tax cuts ours do. Practically the third world, that.

    11. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by xaxa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's what sane government regulation gets you.

      Yeah, but you don't see the dark side of what that regulation gets you - universal healthcare, decent public transportation (compared to most of the US), lots of vacation time. Your wealthy people probably don't get anything like the tax cuts ours do. Practically the third world, that.

      It's exactly 60 years since the National Health Service was started in the UK (1948-07-05), there was a documentary on how it happened this evening. I'm young, and have always taken it for granted; I only started thinking about it when I read posts from Americans debating it on here a year or two ago. A few of the arguments against are similar to the ones from the 40s.

      I admire the people of any country that cares for all their people, without cost to the individual [at the point of use, obviously taxes are used to pay for it all]. I shall now be proud of my country, at least until it does something stupid. But I also heard today that knife crime is now officially a higher priority for the police than "terrorism", so maybe things are changing :-D.

    12. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who owns & maintains the lines to each house?

      The easy way here is keeping the companies owning lines and the ISPs separate.

    13. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Eudial · · Score: 1

      You're lucky. At least in some ISPs in Sweden, we're subject to horrible caps. Some people made a film about it.

      Kommunistera

      The joke is that the communists believe in planned markets, and (presumably also) planned downloading, where it is strictly enforced that everyone downloads exactly the same each month.

      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    14. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by ch0knuti · · Score: 1

      I know that this is offtopic but maybe they are doing the right thing? How many people are killed by terrorists in the UK every year vs people killed by knife crime? IMHO they have got their priorities right.

    15. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leased lines are 5-10 euro more per month.

    16. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      No such thing in Finland. I can upload and download 24/7 without any restrictions, and I've never heard of any ISP enforcing a cap.

      Well, of course: you can get broadband from any ISP you want, no matter who owns the phone line, so there's no monopoly problems like in the US.

      Actually, even where there is a monopoly (such as my part of Finland), you don't get gouged like the suckers^Wpeople in the USA. We only have one option for ISP - the one who owns the fiber coming to our house. We get 20Mbps down and 2Mbps up with a load of IP TV channels for euro55 per month. There's supposed to be IP telephony included, but we use cellular or Skype instead. For another euro20, we could have 100Mbps down and 10Mbps up. Despite the monopoly situation, the ISP does not attempt to perform any unnatural acts on us - no throttling or capacity limits, just the bandwidth we pay for.
      BTW, there are no phone lines in our area; the phone companies stopped adding copper in the countryside a few years ago, before we built our house. No problem getting fiber, however, and for telephony everyone is on cellular, even our kids have cellphones (including the pre-schooler).

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    17. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by loraksus · · Score: 1

      Yes, but their definition of "knife crime" isn't stabbings or murders, but simple possession, which a bunch of teenagers and trade workers are getting busted for.
      You can be arrested for carrying a locking blade leatherman, which is just plain fucking dumb.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    18. Re:Bandwidth cap? Not here by xaxa · · Score: 1

      I know that this is offtopic but maybe they are doing the right thing? How many people are killed by terrorists in the UK every year vs people killed by knife crime?
      IMHO they have got their priorities right.

      Exactly my point, 18 teenagers have been fatally stabbed in London so far this year. Whether that's more than 10 years ago or less, it's still 18 too many, and its 18 more than have been killed by terrorism too.

  4. Download caps by tonycheese · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Well, yes, if you're uploading daily 5 hour movies of your wedding in HD, then you'll hit your cap. I'm really not sure why you would be uploading that much in movies in such quality, and certainly don't know why you would be doing that on a daily basis, but yes, if that were the case there would be a problem. For the other 99.999% of us, I think 30 gigabytes in a DAY is more than enough.

    1. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you're uploading daily 5 hour movies of your wedding in HD, then you'll hit your cap. I'm really not sure why you would be uploading that much in movies in such quality

      I am also not sure who would want to download those wedding movies :-)

    2. Re:Download caps by Jurily · · Score: 4, Funny

      900G a month should be enough for everyone.

    3. Re:Download caps by superphreak · · Score: 1, Funny

      I thought it was 640k?

      --
      Evolution is a state-sponsored, state-protected religion.
    4. Re:Download caps by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Informative

      To hit the 900GB limit you'd have to upload at (if I did the math right) 364KB/sec nonstop every day for an entire month.

      I don't know what the hell you're doing but that's a pretty generous cap, and something a typical family is unlikely to reach... even uploading 30GB HD home movies.
      =Smidge=

    5. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      640k should be enough for 1.87 seconds.

    6. Re:Download caps by devjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You say that now, but in a few years when you want to stream HD with actual fidelity - not the compressed to hell crap we have today - you'll change your tune. We are quickly approaching an era of ubiquitous streaming. If network operators institute caps and then continue resisting investments in their networks, a lot of innovation will never happen.

    7. Re:Download caps by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      I am also not sure who would want to download those wedding movies :-)

      And what about wedding night movies?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Download caps by grolaw · · Score: 1

      How about off-site, real-time backups for a small law firm? I pay $200.00/mo for 1.5meg up and down with no caps. Amazon's Jungle Disk might be worthwhile if I could manage 5 terabytes or so....a month.

      Anybody else know what a video deposition looks like? 8-10 hours of .mov files spanning multiple DVDs. One person's depo can generate that 8-10 gig of data and the average case has 12 depos.

    9. Re:Download caps by wondershit · · Score: 1

      Of course. DVDs exist for quite some time and the biggest video sharing site just updated its quality to 480x360 pixels. Still they produce immense ammounts of traffic. It's always "but in the future everything will be HD" and stuff. They used to say that for DVDs, now they say that for HD content... untill the Next Big Thing comes along. But I think we'll stick to the compressed to hell crap for quite some time.

    10. Re:Download caps by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the other 99.999% of us, I think 30 gigabytes in a DAY is more than enough.

      ...especially when you consider that at 1.5 Mbps upstream, the most you can upload in a day is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 GB. This bandwidth cap is somewhat like setting a highway speed limit of 670616629 mph.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    11. Re:Download caps by vipz · · Score: 1

      I think commercial connections are an entirely different story, especially when it comes to caps. Not to mention static vs. dynamic IPs.

    12. Re:Download caps by NothingMore · · Score: 1

      Since pretty much no one streams there own hd media currently (aka they run there own streaming station since this cap only effects uploads not downloads) this isnt really a big deal. If HD streaming were to become common place im pretty sure these caps would be lifted (because gasp Japanese companies listen to there customers)

    13. Re:Download caps by jabuzz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right, which small law firm is that which produces 5TB of new or changed data *a month*? I am responsible for backup and storage at a large life sciences department at a UK university, and we don't produce 5TB of data from our microscopes a month. These produce data at a much higher rate than a small law firm could reasonably manage.

      You need to invest in some better backup technology me thinks. Something that backs up files rather than filesystems.

    14. Re:Download caps by empaler · · Score: 1

      And, this is the crux of the commercial connections, SLAs that ensures a proper uptime. At one point, I've had 3 different providers (FTTB, ADSL and HSDPA) because that was a cheaper way to ensure uptime than throwing money after a single G.SHDSL (which also usually comes with a 12-month contract, vs. 6 month contract on the others).

    15. Re:Download caps by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Well, they have very fast local connections over there...
      So you're more likely to put the files locally, than upload them to a server. This would be common for something like a wedding video, or local events etc...
      It's not a single 30gb video, but rather 30 downloads of a 1gb video perhaps.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    16. Re:Download caps by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Not so hard when your connection is 1GB...
      But think infected machines running DDOS nodes!

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    17. Re:Download caps by vidarh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He specifically mentioned video depositions. But who'd keep them online anyway? I'd burn a duplicate set of DVDs and have someone like Iron Mountain take them away for safekeeping.

    18. Re:Download caps by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "You say that now, but in a few years when you want to stream HD with actual fidelity ..."

      Jurily is taking a tongue in cheek jab at Bill Gates, who once quipped that 640 Kilo bytes should be more than any programmer would ever need for their application.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    19. Re:Download caps by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      Except in Nebraska!

    20. Re:Download caps by Aetuneo · · Score: 1

      Right, and what's the speed of the internet in Japan? According to speedtest.net, the lowest download (by city) is 3.4 MB/s, and the lowest upload (by ISP) is 1 MB/s (the highest is under 2 MB/s). Uploading 1MB each second, you'll reach the limit in about 10 days, maybe 11. Would an average family reach that limit? Well, I don't know. However, there are lots of people in japan downloading or uploading stuff (after all, that's where fansubbing groups get high-quality RAWs).

      --
      Everything is subjective.
    21. Re:Download caps by stfvon007 · · Score: 1

      lets see, at my connection speed in the US (15Mb down 1Mb up) if I used ALL my bandwidth 24/7 I could upload 10.8GB/day and download 162GB.

      --
      All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
    22. Re:Download caps by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      However, there are lots of people in japan downloading or uploading stuff (after all, that's where fansubbing groups get high-quality RAWs).

      Which is illegal (even if you try to hid behind that half-assed argument that it's not licensed in your country/region yet, let's not kid ourselves...)

      And I think that is exactly the kind of behavior they're targeting with this kind of cap. A legit home user would have a tough time reaching 900GB - speed is ultimately irrelevant as long as it's fast enough to actually reach the limit. It's all about volume, and what would you be uploading, and to who, that would amount to over 900GB in a month on a domestic connection?
      =Smidge=

    23. Re:Download caps by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Right, which small law firm is that which produces 5TB of new or changed data *a month*? ... You need to invest in some better backup technology me thinks. Something that backs up files rather than filesystem

      Incremental backup systems are a kludge invented primarily because of limitations of backup media and transfer rates to/from such media. They trade the speed of disaster recovery in favor of lowering the cost of the backups themselves. The end result is that a catastrophic file system failure will require far more extensive recovery effort then with complete file-system backups. Greater the distance from the last "full" backup covered by multiple differential backups the greater the recovery effort. In some (if not most) organizations the cost of even a day of downtime far, far outweighs any possible savings that incremental backups provide. And that does not account for the fact that some operating systems are notorious for slow and convoluted recovery procedures with any backup system other then whole file-system imaging.

      It is a little wonder that your preaching from a high horse comes out of a university, as a school is one of the examples where a 2-week downtime of all computer systems would likely be met with a collective shrug.

    24. Re:Download caps by Alibaba10100 · · Score: 1

      That would take some serious infrastructure upgrades. Especially because people tend to watch movies around the same time. Unless the wiring infrastructure is nationalized, I don't see anyone willing to pay for that.

    25. Re:Download caps by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Which is illegal (even if you try to hid behind that half-assed argument that it's not licensed in your country/region yet, let's not kid ourselves...)

      Legality is not the ultimate arbiter of my behavior. My ideas of right and wrong are not based on what is or is not legal.

      A legit home user would have a tough time reaching 900GB - speed is ultimately irrelevant as long as it's fast enough to actually reach the limit. It's all about volume, and what would you be uploading, and to who, that would amount to over 900GB in a month on a domestic connection?

      You have misunderstood the fundamental nature of the internet. You are under the common misconception that the internet was meant to be client-server.

      The internet was always intended to be peer-to-peer, as was its predecessor arpanet. This is why TCP/IP itself is symmetric; clients and servers both speak the same way, there really is no "client" or "server" except in software and in the roles that machines are called to play.

      The internet was very much meant to be distributed and the various systems on the internet were meant to share data with other systems. The very point was to foster an environment of openness and collaboration so that all could benefit. While this has happened to a certain degree, the "citadel" model of data is still the most prevalent by far. While the WWW has helped to distribute information by encouraging linking, the largest internet providers in the USA in particular also want to be the content providers because they can see that is where the money lies.

      A 900GB/mo upload cap, however, is not about preventing people from sharing media. If you really do need more upstream than that, you really should get hosting. It's not unreasonable. But a lot of very good information and software is being served from someone's desktop system in Japan.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:Download caps by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      Ever hear of hard links? Apple uses hard links for their Time Machine backup system, but anyone can implement it. By linking multiple "files" to the same data, every incremental backup can contain the entire file structure without wasting space. You get the performance and efficiency of incremental backups with the simplicity of a filesystem image.

      Another plus is that each version of a file, no matter how many times it was "backed up", is stored exactly once on the backup media. So if you have, say, a quad-mirrored backup system, you can be sure that each and every version of every file has exactly four backups. With conventional full image backups, old files will be duplicated hundreds of times while frequently modified ones will only have a single backup.

      The only downside to hard-link backups is an inability to span filesystems; if you can't fit a full backup onto one device, you'll have to split the backup up or RAID multiple drives for storage. Hopefully ZFS will simplify this, but it's still a small price to pay for fast, efficient, easily recoverable backups IMHO.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    27. Re:Download caps by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Right, which small law firm is that which produces 5TB of new or changed data *a month*? ... You need to invest in some better backup technology me thinks. Something that backs up files rather than filesystem

      Incremental backup systems are a kludge invented primarily because of limitations of backup media and transfer rates to/from such media. [...]

      If you have your incremental backups on the same filesystem (e.g. hard disc), then hard links can provide incremental backups and also a full backup, with only minor additional costs. For instance, the --link-dest option on rsync could implement this for a small system.

    28. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's why you're paying $200 a month instead of $50 for a home internet connection.

    29. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you do 3 ten hour depositions a day, every day?

      And of course they need to be DVD quality, and have such high motion they don't compress well at all, right?

    30. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is resisting investment in their networks. Contrary to a popular myth, what you pay monthly is used to a large part to pay for infrastructure upgrades. How else would you explain that your bandwidth (or the bandwidth that you could have if you hadn't made a 2-year contract that locks you into whatever was the cream of the crop when you ordered it) has at least doubled every year, as is the case for every place I know of.

    31. Re:Download caps by grolaw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've produced 16 people for deposition in one month. All were plaintiffs in a Reduction In Force / Older Worker's Benefit Protection Act suit. Just last month (June) I had four depositions lasting longer than 8 hours. (FWIW I have a Masters in Endocrine Physiology (Masters only program) and I do understand lab data output though I was working on a PDP 11 when I took that Master's Degree).

      IF what we were considering here was a reasonable path to off-site backups/disaster planning/remote access at high bandwidth - I could easily see how only 3-6 attorneys engaged in moderate litigation could generate 5T/mo.

      What do bandwidth caps portend for small business - you don't have to be an attorney to create media - consider advertising firms, contractors, real estate - all could easily top the cap without being able to plan ahead. Market forces drive the demand. If you just created the Tesla vehicle and gas went to $20.00/gal - you had better have the bandwidth and data to feed your potential customers what they want.

    32. Re:Download caps by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      Legality is not the ultimate arbiter of my behavior. My ideas of right and wrong are not based on what is or is not legal.

      This is true. Unfortunately the ISP probably cares even if you don't... and guess who's conditions your service contract are under?

      You have misunderstood the fundamental nature of the internet. You are under the common misconception that the internet was meant to be client-server.

      And that was a brilliant attempt to sidestep the question posed.

      You said it yourself: "If you really do need more upstream than that, you really should get hosting. It's not unreasonable."

      So I'll ask again... what would you be uploading, and to who, that would amount to over 900GB in a month on a domestic connection? If there was a real legitimate use for that much bandwidth you should have no trouble identifying it. If all you have are ideals then it comes down to those ideals versus the ISP's want to not get sued - guess who wins that argument.
      =Smidge=

    33. Re:Download caps by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      This bandwidth cap is somewhat like setting a highway speed limit of 670616629 mph.

      No, it's more like they set the highway speed limit to 55 mph and you're complaining that you can't possibly go that fast on your 3 speed bicycle.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    34. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 years ago, if you'd have made the argument "20gb is enough bandwidth for anyone not warezing", I'd have agreed. However these days, people regularly exceed 20gb/mo without even breaking a sweat (youtube, gaming, etc). Given that Japan is supposedly several years ahead of "The West", I'd be surprised if there weren't a significant amount of people exceeding 900GB/mo without intentionally breaking the law (who knows, maybe they have some HD youTube?).

      That being said, 900gb upload is a bit ridiculous. I think it's a bit selfish and insensitive to complain about such a massive "limit" when us Australians consider ourselves lucky to get 1/20th of that in DOWNLOADS - it'd be like if I started complaining about the scarcity of food in a forum which had a number of Ethiopians or Burkina Faso'ians.

    35. Re:Download caps by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      You still must perform periodic full system backups, or you else your incremental backups will have no starting reference point, no matter what magical differential method you use. And if you can pull off a full backup that means that you have the capacity and bandwidth to do so. Subsequently there is little point to performing the incremental backups since all you are doing is losing reliability (a loss of one incremental backup in a sequence will render all subsequent differentials useless). And so for this simple reason most companies do not bother with this. There is a lot of (potentially devastating) downsides, much added complexity, and very little upside (other then cost).

    36. Re:Download caps by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      If you have your incremental backups on the same filesystem (e.g. hard disc), then hard links can provide incremental backups and also a full backup, with only minor additional costs. For instance, the --link-dest option on rsync could implement this for a small system.

      What in the world is the point of making "backups" to the same file system? How is this going to protect you from a catastrophic failure in the file system itself of a failure of a RAID controller (causing a loss of the whole array) or some such? How are you planning to perform a from-scratch disaster recovery (i.e. building with your data center has burned down) with this?

    37. Re:Download caps by nabsltd · · Score: 2, Informative

      A legit home user would have a tough time reaching 900GB - speed is ultimately irrelevant as long as it's fast enough to actually reach the limit. It's all about volume, and what would you be uploading, and to who, that would amount to over 900GB in a month on a domestic connection?

      Torrents...that's what does it for me.

      Now, you may say something about this not being "legit", but the only thing I torrent is TV shows that my recording failed on, and truly free stuff (Linux distros, etc.). If you are nice to the swarm and seed back for a while, you can get some massive upload amounts.

      I'm still only about 300GB/month upload (see here for calculation), but I'm sure that number is still larger than you thought you'd see from a "legit" user.

    38. Re:Download caps by potat0man · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about my streaming HD security cameras that are running all day?

      If you give people the bandwidth they will find a way to use it. Hell, a professional photographer backing up his daily photo shoots could hit 30Gigs without much problem. Or cinematographers collaborating over the internet. Not everyone just surfs message boards and downloads an ISO once a month so that they can consider themselves a 'power user'.

      I say open up the hardware and the software will follow.

    39. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      900G a month should be enough for everyone.

      You can never get enough tentacle rape anime.

    40. Re:Download caps by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      This is probably just the providers wanting to prevent people from running a business using a cheap domestic connection. Even then it's generous enough to cover a site serving millions of pages a day.

    41. Re:Download caps by Geak · · Score: 1

      I did the math on this. If your upstream is 1Mbps, and you ran a non-stop upload for the entire day using all your available bandwidth, the maximum you could upload is roughly 10Gb/day. So unless upstream speeds exceed 3Mbps, you couldn't possibly exceed your cap. Of course, I have no idea what upstream speeds in Japan are like with most broadband providers. Anybody got some numbers?

    42. Re:Download caps by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Burning DVDs? Real man don't make backups. They just upload them to an FTP server and let the rest of the world mirror it, you know that.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    43. Re:Download caps by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. You have a live system, and one or more backup systems. You don't back up from the live system to the live system, you backup from the live system to the backup systems. Every time something changes on the live system, you transmit the changes to the other sites. They record the updated state of the system and the history of changes, allowing you to revert to any previous point as long as not all of the backup systems are destroyed. If you keep them in different physical locations, it's pretty safe.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    44. Re:Download caps by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Every time something changes on the live system, you transmit the changes to the other sites.

      What you are talking about is essentially a network block device backed RAID system. It might work if you are backing up a repository of Word documents, but it will not work at all for heavily used database applications or virtual machine disk storage as such activity translates to a very large amount of changes per second spread across the entire storage area. Such filesystem based snapshot systems are defeated if the ratio of free storage to the amount of write disk activity is low, especially if the filesystem consists of large frequently changing files, as is usually the case with database systems.

    45. Re:Download caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only 364K/sec? That's not nearly enough for a permanent HD video conference link between the two halves of your boardroom (say, one half in LA and the other in Seattle).

      If this sounds far-fetched, only the permanence part is different from my every day work environment.

    46. Re:Download caps by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This bandwidth cap is somewhat like setting a highway speed limit of 670616629 mph.

      No, it's more like they set the highway speed limit to 55 mph and you're complaining that you can't possibly go that fast on your 3 speed bicycle.

      How many people have substantially more than 3 Mbps of upstream bandwidth to play with at home? I'm on my service provider's fastest available connection, and upstream bandwidth maxes out at 1 Mbps.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    47. Re:Download caps by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Sure, not that many people in the USA today have 10 Mbps uploads yet.

      So the Car / Bicycle analogy isn't like the USA today (where everyone has a car) - it's like India in the 1950's looking at the USA (no one in India had a car, but they were pretty common in the USA). When it comes to high speed internet, the USA is a third world country with marginal infrastructure.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    48. Re:Download caps by kazad · · Score: 1

      Yep, you did it right: 900 GB/month in KB/sec. Of course it depends on how long your "month" is (30 days or 365/12).

  5. If only there were a way by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To provide service to the broadband neglected in the US -- like, for example, allowing the public power districts that already have wires running to the homes do it.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:If only there were a way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and the resulting increase in the RF noise floor is certainly a small price to pay. Towns with no infrastructure don't use any radio waves, do they? I mean, it's not like they need to be connected within or to the outside.

    2. Re:If only there were a way by symbolset · · Score: 2, Informative

      You misunderstood me. I agree that broadband over powerline is dumb. Fiber is the way to go, and some PUDs are deploying it. Their customers get these awesome Taiwan broadband levels for about $50/month. Fiber does not have an RF signature.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  6. How? by jadedoto · · Score: 3, Funny

    The next step is figuring out how to upload that much each day.

    1. Re:How? by barry99705 · · Score: 1

      Claim it's the latest Hollywood hottie's "home movies". Cause really, anybody that want's to see your wedding was probably already there.

    2. Re:How? by barry99705 · · Score: 1

      You know, I hate replying to myself, but I'd love to have an internet connection that was actually capable of uploading 900Gigs in a month.

    3. Re:How? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Trust me, those that attended don't want to see the footage.

  7. There is no need for this for ordinary users by cliffski · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Thats an insane amount. I can't even vaguely imagine how I would use more than 30 gig a month downloads. And 90% of that is me using the BBC iplayer because I don't own a video player or DVD recorder. Without those, it's probably under 5 gig a month tops, and thats mostly web surfing, the odd youtube vid and multiplayer gaming.
    Fuck it, with so many 'triple A' games abandoning the PC, there aren't even any stupidly big demos to download anymore.

    Unless you are some kid who thinks he is 'sticking it to the man' by downloading every single hollywood movie in HD (presumably so can watch it whilst snorting about how much it sucks and that the producers business model is flawed) from dodgy torrent sites, I don't see how anyone has any serious need for this.

    I'm sure some smug slashdotters will equate this to the 640k quote, but tell me exactly how my need for digital data downloaded to my PC is going to go much higher in the next ten years?

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    1. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Youtube in HD.

      You lose.

    2. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Nightspirit · · Score: 3, Informative

      I probably use about ~40gb a month, which I believe is below COX's limit of 60gb/month. I have a decent torrent ratio so I'm probably uploading 20gb a month as well
      ~5gb movies streamed from 360
      ~3gb movies streamed from netflix. I have no idea what the netflix size-per-movie is, but my wife watches about 5 of them per month.
      ~30gb porn
      ~10gb tv shows
      ~2gb checking email, web surfing, youtube, downloading linux distros, etc.

    3. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by the+brown+guy · · Score: 1

      with so many 'triple A' games abandoning the PC, there aren't even any stupidly big demos to download anymore.

      Except for the stupidly big demos for consoles...

      --
      Orbis terrarum est non altus satis
    4. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by lubricated · · Score: 2

      I'm sure some smug slashdotters will equate this to the 640k quote, but tell me exactly how my need for digital data downloaded to my PC is going to go much higher in the next ten years?

      Tell me anything about technology in the next 10 years. It is you that is being smug. Your argument boils down to, I don't want bandwidth why should anyone else.

      Unless you are some kid who thinks he is 'sticking it to the man' by downloading every single hollywood movie in HD

      There it is smug emissions. Fuck you.

      --
      It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
    5. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by nbert · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even with HD content one would have to deliberately break the limit. Let's assume youtube would implement full HD based on H.264 aka MPEG-4 AVC. I don't have any material on my computer but a quick look here tells me that 3 minutes require about 360 MB, so you get about 250 minutes for 30 GB, which is a little more than 4 hours.

      But even if someone watches youtube for more than 4 hours in a row it wouldn't matter, because TFA mentions that it only affects upload, so one would have to upload 2.8 movies of average length a day.

      BTW: Bluray supports MPEG-2 exactly for the reason that it wastes so much space. Otherwise people would start to wonder why we need 50 GB optical discs for HD videos...

    6. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Wildclaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The.X-Files.COMPLETE.MULTiSUBS.PAL.DVDR-MULTiGRP 253.91GB

      Sure, downloading that is against the law in most countries, but if the bandwidth was there, the legal services providing similar products would come.

      Unless you are some kid who thinks he is 'sticking it to the man' by downloading every single hollywood movie in HD

      spider-man.3.wvc1.1080p.bluray.nlsubs.rabomil.wmv 13GB

      That would make 2-3 hollywood movies per month I guess then.

      And the rest of your comment shows that you have no idea of who pirates. Sure, the 15-29 group is overrepresented, but that has more to do with the fact that they are more savage with computers and the internet, and not with their age or political agenda. (Ah well, that they are more savage with computers and the internet does have to do with their age statistically)

      from dodgy torrent sites

      Dodgy torrent sites? I admit that I am careful when download applications via bittorrent. On the other hand, I am equally careful when downloading it from any other site, because the malware industry is huge. Trust is the only thing you have to go on due to crappy operating systems (and this is not limited to windows) that don't automatically install all applications in a sandbox. If I wanted an application to write to any files (including my data files) outside of its own configuration/program directory I would want to give it specific permission to do so. Of course, selecting a file in an operating system open/save file dialog should count as giving permission.

      Ok, that got a little off topic, so let's get back to it.

      I'm sure some smug slashdotters will equate this to the 640k quote, but tell me exactly how my need for digital data downloaded to my PC is going to go much higher in the next ten years?

      It probably won't be. The majority of the old generation always stays with what the already have. Frontrunners in technology is and will always be young people, With a few older here and there.

    7. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by hherb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When all I had were floppy disks, my first 5MB hard disk seemed so huge that I started wondering how I would fill it. Question was answered within weeks. Few years later I spent seveal thousands of dollars for a monstruous 5GB hard disk, assuming that would be the end of all my storage troubles.

      Nowadays, in my medical practice, my backup volume is at present 25 GB. It grows by about 1GB per month. That is what I have to transfer every night to an offsite backup facility.

      Images I receive from radiology can be several GB a day when they transfer MRI and CT images, and so forth

      Plus, once you got the bandwidth, you can start doing some real video conferencing at a frame rate and resolution that actually makes it usable - and you will burn through many GB in no time.

    8. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats an insane amount. I can't even vaguely imagine how I would use more than 30 gig a month downloads. And 90% of that is me using the BBC iplayer because I don't own a video player or DVD recorder. Without those, it's probably under 5 gig a month tops, and thats mostly web surfing, the odd youtube vid and multiplayer gaming.
      Fuck it, with so many 'triple A' games abandoning the PC, there aren't even any stupidly big demos to download anymore.

      Unless you are some kid who thinks he is 'sticking it to the man' by downloading every single hollywood movie in HD (presumably so can watch it whilst snorting about how much it sucks and that the producers business model is flawed) from dodgy torrent sites, I don't see how anyone has any serious need for this.

      I'm sure some smug slashdotters will equate this to the 640k quote, but tell me exactly how my need for digital data downloaded to my PC is going to go much higher in the next ten years?

      How did you get modded Insightful?

      I watch 4 - 6 hours of tv/movies a day, and I download almost all of it.

      It's pretty easy to download/upload over 30 gigs in just a few days.

      By the way, you forgot to put "and get the hell off my lawn" at the end of your post...

    9. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You clearly don't have a internet porn addiction

    10. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by EvilRyry · · Score: 1

      Don't suppose you've ever heard of advanced technologies like differential or incremental backups. Or if those are out of your reach, rsync would work well provided the mentioned backups are not encrypted.

    11. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are misunderstanding the thing. By far.

      The caps are *supposed NOT to matter*! The whole idea is that they don't matter to any ordinary consumers but exists for some abusers that would find a way to do something horrible.

      Can't think of anything that would fill the cap? GREAT! That's how it should be for ordinary computers.

      That all said, I do know how to fill such upload caps. I used to have a webhotel some years ago with that amount of upload per month and it was always well enough for my sites.

      Then, I accepted to host a 110 meg World Of Warcraft video which was linked to by some very popular wow video sites. The upload was used in a matter of hours.

      Now, imagine you want to keep server on your home computer, imagine a few years forward when HD is much more common... Hell, imagine one link to some large file from slashdot.

      That is when 30gb daily caps come close.

    12. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by hherb · · Score: 1

      If you would have bothered to read my post you would have noted that this is about patient health records. OF COURSE they are encrypted.

      The reason why not a differential backup is because a highly normalized huge database with lots of blobs is very difficult to back up differentially/incrementally in a way that allows fastest possible restore (which we might need).

      I do use database replication via VPN - but we also need an audit trail that holds water in court and points of safe return (concerning errorpropagation in backups), so we cannot do away with full backups.

      This is not a pimply faced youth's porn and music collection - this is important data that can save or destroy lives depending how it is handled and accessed.

    13. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      30 gb porn as well as a wife? Oh god! I think I have a wedding plan to cancel!!!

    14. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      they are more savage with computers

      I think you're confusing the 15- to 29-year-olds with the german 8- to 14-year-olds. Savvy?

    15. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

      Well, I use a private tracker, so none of this 120x120 youporn/redtube crap. As for your wedding plans, good luck :)

    16. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You clearly missed the point where he said:

      "Images I receive from radiology can be several GB a day when they transfer MRI and CT images, and so forth"

      That means he's generating GB's of NEW data every day. Incremental backups don't help you at all with new data.

    17. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not clear if you misread that or not, but it was 30GB *per day*, not per month.

    18. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It probably won't be. The majority of the old generation always stays with what the already have. Frontrunners in technology is and will always be young people, With a few older here and there.

      Glad to be an oldster from the BBS days. I'm still ahead of kids half my age.

    19. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Alibaba10100 · · Score: 1

      In my apartment we have 3 and we break 30GB/month (combined upp+down) easily. We watch streaming tv shows, use skype, watch youtube videos. None of us uses bittorrent at home. 30GB is not very much these days.

    20. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Alibaba10100 · · Score: 3, Funny

      ~30gb porn

      Good god man. You should switch to hentai, its easier to compress.

    21. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by achurch · · Score: 1

      This is not a pimply faced youth's porn and music collection - this is important data that can save or destroy lives depending how it is handled and accessed.

      Then you'd be using a business-class connection anyway, which isn't affected by the limit.

    22. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      I have an IP cam running. Sending out mjpeg it uses around 6GB per day. So I would get less than a week if I were capped to 30GB. And I don't think that the ISP will fall for the uploading not downloading excuse.

    23. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an unimaginative idiot. I keep a videoconferencing session open to one remote site whenever I'm in the house (I work from home), I keep another open to my girl whenever we're not together, and various other sessions for hours at a time. I use the highest possible quality for the best video and audio. I burn at least 80GB/month on this, up+down.

      Try it - it took me quite a while to get used to having people in high res video and audio all the time, and was equally weird to know I was usually (potentially) being watched, but after a while I quite enjoyed the audiovisual office+social environment in the comfort of my own geek room. And, while there are times when typing is best, there are other times when one communicates much better with the voice, the hands, the face and the whiteboard.

    24. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      What you say is perfectly reasonable. However, the economics of this kind of thing tends to work out so that any any given time, some people are willing to pay more to be on the cutting edge of technology, while others are perfectly happy to save some money by lagging behind. I recently downgraded my cable modem to a slower level of service in order to save $15/mo. I simply don't need the extra bandwidth. There's also the issue that for many types of internet access you're sharing bandwidth with your neighbors because it's all going through the same pipe to the same switch. And ISPs have to oversubscribe their lines; if they were to guarantee every user x amount of bandwidth, even if they all got online at the same time, they would have to charge much, much more.

      So basically the ISP has to set some rate structure. Their interest in constructing that rate structure is in maximizing their profits. As a consumer, my interest is in minimizing what I pay for the level of service I'm currently happy with. My interests are also opposed to my neighbors. The competition among all these competing interests can probably be balanced by the ordinary mechanisms of capitalism, provided that they're not a monopoly. In my area, TWC has a broadband monopoly. That's the thing to get upset about and to try to fix. If people are upset about the rate structure offered to them, then there are basically two possibilities: the rate structure is unfair because there's a monopoly, or the rate structure is fair as determined by the laws of supply and demand.

    25. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Justifying stealing is awesome.

    26. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      My bad. Thanks for the correction. :)

      Atleast I have the excuse of not being a native english speaker.

    27. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also believe that 40gb is less than 60gb.

    28. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Free+the+Cowards · · Score: 1

      If you want to run a server on your home computer, maybe you should, you know, buy a server connection for it.

      --
      If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
    29. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't "more savage with computers and the internet," they are more "savvy."

    30. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ~3gb movies streamed from netflix. I have no idea what the netflix size-per-movie is, but my wife watches about 5 of them per month.
      ~30gb porn

      I sure hope for your sake your wife doesn't read Slashdot.

    31. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Deltaspectre · · Score: 1

      If you use rsync to backup, then ideally you'd only be backing up the 1gb/month that has changed/been added.

      --
      My UID is prime... is yours?
    32. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      that they are more savage with computers

      As opposed to being savvy with their language.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    33. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure some smug slashdotters will equate this to the 640k quote, but tell me exactly how my need for digital data downloaded to my PC is going to go much higher in the next ten years?

      Actually, we'll think you're smug because you equate yourself with Bill Gates.

    34. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by DigitalHammer · · Score: 1

      Porn in HD.

      You lose.

    35. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      No he means savage. As in I'm off to pull a savage burn on Dreamworks SKG by downloading Kung Fu Panda off Pirate Bay.

      http://www.imdb.co.uk/character/ch0032435/quotes

      Raoul Duke: If the pigs were gathering in Vegas, I felt the drug culture should be represented as well. And there was a certain bent appeal in the notion of running a savage burn on one Las Vegas hotel, and then just wheeling across town and checking into another. Me and a thousand ranking cops from all over America. Why not? Move confidently into their midst.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    36. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by BZ · · Score: 1

      How much data is transferred per month if one is doing active development using a distributed version control system like Mercurial on a 4 GB repository? I'm pretty sure that one can easily be pushing around a lot more than 5 gigs a month in such a setup (probably even just uploading, depending on exact collaboartion patterns). ;)

      But even ignoring that sort of thing, which doesn't apply to most people anyway, if you really want to do reasonable streaming video, a single layer DVD (not HD, regular DVD) holds 4.7GB of data. So if you watch 2 movies a week (and plenty of people do), that should easily add up to 2 * 4 * 3 = 24 GB per month. All download, of course. It would be interesting to see what a reasonable download bandwidth would be for a few HD movies a week, and what the corresponding upload bandwidth needs to be to send all the ACKs.

      I think it's a safe bet that HD streaming video can happen in the next 10 years if the bandwidth consumers have allows it.

    37. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up for noticing the cap is on upload, not on download.

    38. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I watch 4 - 6 hours of tv/movies a day, and I download almost all of it."

      you need to get a life.

    39. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by cliffski · · Score: 1

      I know who pirates, its people like you who arrogantly assume the world owes them a fucking living.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    40. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      30Gb is upload cap, not download cap. You can watch all teh YouTube HD you want with no restrictions, but you wouldn't be able to upload more than 3 HD movies in a month.

    41. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I canceled cable since they kept raising their rates. It just wasn't worth it between all the big broadcasters having the shows on their websites, Hulu, and Netflix, I now get all my entertainment through the Internet.

      Hell, the Countdown podcast is 250 megs five days a week. So, one show is 5 gigs a month. I stream about four Netflix movies a week. On occasion, I'll just have a movie marathon while streaming. I buy most of my games online. I play online.

      I am not exactly sure how much I am downloading, but it wouldn't surprise me if I was breaking 40 Gb on some weeks and that is will 100% legal, legitimate internet access. Some of us make use of the resources we pay for.

    42. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not every wife dislikes their husband watching porn.

    43. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by cmat · · Score: 1

      Uploads are capped, not downloads.

      --
      -- Humans, because the hardware IS the software.
    44. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem. From the title.

      900 Gigabyte Upload Cap, Downloads Uncapped.

      only the uploads are capped, and yeah, I agree, really totally large caps. Who's uploading 900GB per month? Maybe newsgroup services, or possibly other companies, but probably not very many home users.

      Maybe it's because I'm not in japan, but this seems like non-news. If there is a serious need to upload that much data in the coming years, then the cap will surely rise. If things stay as they are now, I don't know how this will affect anyone except maybe home businesses that deal in uploading lots of content.

    45. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by giminy · · Score: 1

      Thats an insane amount. I can't even vaguely imagine how I would use more than 30 gig a month downloads.

      The trouble with putting a cap on an internet connection is this: Define "download."

      If I have an OC-12 at work, and I decide for no good reason to send you 1500 byte ICMP Echo Requests all day every day as quickly as I can, will the cable company label this you "downloading" the data? If not, then we've just found a neat way to circumvent the limit (put your download data in the ICMP payload). If it does count as you downloading, give me your IP address and let's see if you can hit the 30 Gig limit this month :).

      --
      The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
    46. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by IdeaMan · · Score: 1

      No I think he was trying to say they are Fierce!

      --
      They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
    47. Re:There is no need for this for ordinary users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Higher resolution (3, 6, 20, 50 megapixels?)
      Higher framerate (300 Hz to fully trick the eye*)

      2 hours of compressed video - 100 gigs, 500 gigs, perhaps more?

      Download that as a torrent and you may well find yourself uploading twice as much as you download - if the file is 500 gigs, you'll exceed the 900 gigs limit just for one film.

      *) People claim all sorts of numbers. 25-30 Hz supposedly makes motion seem 'smooth' - 100 Hz supposedly eliminates flicker - I have a pretty kickass CRT monitor and at lower resolutions I can bump the refresh rate up to 170 Hz. I can tell the difference between 100 and 120, between 120 and 140, and between 140 and 170. No, I'm not some kind of superman and no, I don't have a particularily trained eye - though I have played lots of computer games where framerate is critical to gameplay and I know where to look for the subtle differences between framerates (turning the camera is a dead giveaway, so is moving the mouse pointer). The number 300 is not just something I pulled out of my ass; I read somewhere (don't remember where) that the eye takes 144 images per second. Apply the Nyquist rate and you get a nice round 300 Hz. 300 may be too conservative, but since I don't have a monitor able to reproduce that refresh rate, I can't really say. I do know from personal experience that 170 Hz is not enough to fool the eye.

  8. 30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by w3woody · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a 10megabit down, 1.5megabit up at home. This means it would take me 44 hours to upload 30 gigabytes with my 1.5mb/s upload speed.

    Perhaps until the backbone in Japan is updated to uncap upload speeds, the right answer would be to throttle bit rates for anyone who has uploaded more than 20 gigabytes in a particular month? You could almost do it by just slowly ramping down rather than cutting people off--and it's a lot less antisocial than just pulling the customer's plug.

    Hell, I have an effective 20gigabyte/month upload cap because that's the maximum capacity of my bandwidth; yet until I heard about Japan's bandwidth I wasn't complaining.

    As a footnote, the quote of the day at the bottom of my page reads: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes. -- Dr. Warren Jackson, Director, UTCS"

    Seems appropriate somehow...

    1. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by blackjackshellac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's pretty well just what I was going to post, my upload bandwidth is a tad under 100KB/s, so the most I can upload in a 24 hour period is 8GB. My download bandwidth comes in at about 500KB/s so with that I could get to 40GB down per day.

      After working in a university for 15 years and regularly getting 1-10MB/s and now working in private industry where we employ Infiniband, Gige and 10Gige these limits are horrifyingly slow to me.

      Fibre to the home. Now!

      --
      Salut,

      Jacques

    2. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      This means it would take me 44 hours to upload 30 gigabytes with my 1.5mb/s upload speed.

      ...

      Hell, I have an effective 20gigabyte/month upload cap because that's the maximum capacity of my bandwidth

      Huh??

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you paying the bills? Those fast connections from your university and your employer don't come cheap. You can get the same performance at home, as long as you're willing to pay for it. Bandwidth caps are almost always aimed at the low priced, consumer connections.

    4. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This means it would take me 44 hours to upload 30 gigabytes with my 1.5mb/s upload speed.

      ...

      Hell, I have an effective 20gigabyte/month upload cap because that's the maximum capacity of my bandwidth

      Huh??

      download v upload

    5. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by w3woody · · Score: 1

      s/month/day/

    6. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japanese consumers already have 1gbps up and down services for around $60/month, so do Koreans and Swedes. Here in the US the best for that price is FiOS'S 20/20mbps for $67/month.

    7. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst case scenario I see is the web hosting industry will be hurt by this in the US. With hardly any caps on bandwidth within Japan, it will bring interest from the US to overseas. The main argument against this is that without proper regulation, security can become an issue. I don't advocate it but this will start to be an issue over the next several years when HDTV rears its ugly head within the Internet. I'm not sure what extent the FCC has over the internet. I believe that the rules are somewhat relaxed when it comes to ISPs. Need more input and research on that I guess.

      The main fear I have is that the Telecom industries are the main bottle necks and there is no democratic method to supersede their authority outside of another corporation coming into play or a new innovation to flourish within the market outside of Telecom control. Telecoms could provide the capital as long as it would be feasible but a strong argument would have to be made.

      Basically, what I'm saying is that if this continues and the US industry does nothing to fix something they wish to ignore and brush under the carpet, then companies like Apple, Google and pretty much any other media outlet might consider alternative measures to compensate for cost.

      Dominance is one thing but to provide a fair and balanced chance for competition to exist is something we will need to take seriously. While I can't provide solutions, I can provide an idea to aide in encouraging a diverse session of brainstorming.

    8. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Perhaps until the backbone in Japan is updated to uncap upload speeds, the right answer would be to throttle bit rates for anyone who has uploaded more than 20 gigabytes in a particular month?

      Huh? Why should they do that (and why should their customers stand for it) when they've just told people they can upload 900 GB per month?

      I guess I must be new here.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    9. Re:30 gigs up is way more than I could ever send. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Japan we have 100MB FTTH.(fiber to the home) It is very possible to reach that limit.

  9. Never ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Appropos, the caption at the bottom of the Slashdot page is:

    "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes."

    Perhaps it's time that was updated to "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a Japanese broadband account."

  10. What about illegal (OMG TERRISTS!) file sharing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What's the attitude of Japanese govt. towards p2p copyrighted material filesharing?
    I ask because, you know, 30GB/day aren't that easy fo fill if you eliminate that use of p2p networks. Unless people fall in love with ultra high definition videoconferencing, but I'd stay happily with plain cable if that was all I could do with so much bandwidth.

  11. PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1, Troll

    Now that everyone is being forced to upgrade their SD audio and video equipment to HD, these fascist corporations controlling our communications are imposing data caps.

    I say, this was their plan from the beginning to destroy alternative opinion, websites, and news.

    HD is NOT in the public interest, when only fascist corporate media will be able to afford to broadcast it.

    We have only to look at who controls the FCC.

    The web, internet is NOT prepared for the switch from SD to HD.

    It won't be long until the outright financial destruction of alternative news sources. It won't be long after that that ALL dissenting voices are silenced.

    Japan is a canary in the coal mine. An example. A footnote.

    1. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Teilo · · Score: 1

      Yeah. And of course, because I can now watch CNN in HD, I have absolutely no desire to read or watch any news at all online.

      Just settle down, a bit, ok?

      --
      Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
    2. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Yeah. And of course, because I can now watch CNN in HD, I have absolutely no desire to read or watch any news at all online.

      Why would you want to watch *news* when you can be *entertained* by watching CNN - now in HD!
      News is so depressing.

    3. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by compro01 · · Score: 4, Informative

      what HD? they're moving to SD transmitted digitally.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    4. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      honestly, while the transition to all digital broadcast (which happens to involve HD) is being used to cram DRM down our throats and sell out our fair use rights, I'm not drawing the connections you are.

      HD streams have been around on the web for a while, and are now common on pirate sites as well.

      Nobody is forcing alternative viewpoints to be in HD. slashdot isn't even in SD and I don't see it going anywhere.

      The imposition of caps of the type theyre "experimenting" with in the US are most definitely a step backward which, if allowed to deploy universally, would seriously stifle the internet, but in a long history which at times involved heavy p2p use, I at no time managed to upload that quantity of data in a month.

      I don't see 40 gigs as fundamentally unreasonable for upload on a residential account, and I also believe at least SOME of the burden for future applications of the internet should be placed on algorithms/compression rather than simple isp expansion.

      40 or even 140 gigs is far too low for downstream though, given that the "last mile" was supposedly designed on the assumption of a structure in which the sending of data was overwhelmingly dominated by receipt.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    5. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IF ONLY YOU COULD DOWNSAMPLE TO SD RESOLUTIONS!

      Oh wait, you can. At least until the fascist corporations make encoding 352x288 videos illegal.

      Why did this get modded insightful? Is the tinfoil hat brigade out?

    6. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that everyone is being forced to upgrade their SD audio and video equipment to HD, ...

      Quibble, I assume you are referring to the switch to digital TV broadcast in Febuary 2009.

      They are not switching to HD TV, they are switching to digital TV, which is not necessarily HD. There will still be plenty of SD content, but you'll still need a digital receiver to watch it.

    7. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      honestly, while the transition to all digital broadcast (which happens to involve HD) is being used to cram DRM down our throats and sell out our fair use rights, I'm not drawing the connections you are.

      ATSC has no DRM whatsoever.

    8. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, no. People are not required to upgrade to HD, they're required to upgrade to digital TV, which has nothing to do with the resolution.

      But do go ahead, continue to troll like all the other uninformed sheeple*.

      (* You see what I did there?)

    9. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice FUD post.
      1. There is no mandate for HD programming, only digital programming. Stations can still broadcast in SD if they choose.
      2. The FCC mandate only affects over-the-air signals, not cable, satellite, or Internet broadcasts.
      3. All Internet transmissions are inherently digital to begin with. There is no such thing as an analog webcast.

    10. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      QAM has requirements for HDCP, end-to-end encryption, and selective output control because our fine FCC decided to defer to the "free market", and by "free market" they mean the monopoly content providers saying "you design your hardware this way"

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    11. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Um, you might want to tone down the paranoia there.....let me get this straight, 'THEY' plan a limit to bandwidth (at 30gigabytes a day), in Japan, as a test to see what will happen in the US, so they can censor alternative websites? Because alternative news, you know, takes up a lot of bandwidth. I think you need to get outside a little more. THERE IS NO WORLDWIDE CONSPIRACY TO OPRESS THE PUBLIC AND MAKE US IN TO SLAVES. Also, we really did land on the moon.

      --
      Qxe4
    12. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to watch *news* when you can be *entertained* by watching CNN - now in HD! News is so depressing.

      Pretty simple, you answered your own question there. Not only is news depressing, it is also boring. That is why younger people are watching it less and less. I think you will agree, it is a good thing that more and more people are getting their news from the internet. Now hopefully they are getting it from a variety of sources, instead of just one favorite news site.

      --
      Qxe4
    13. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      You totally missed the point. If your watching CNN in HD your NOT getting real news, your getting fascist propaganda.

      Second, I was talking about BROADCASTING. Which is different than laying back with a 6-pack of beer and watching fascist propaganda. Most people don't even know there's a FISA vote on the 8th of July. Celebrate the birth of our country on the 4th, celebrate the death on the 8th.

      35 Articles of Impeachment? Not a PEEP from corporate fascist media.

      Why is that? huh?

      So if you want me to settle down, you need to explain how we are going to turn this situation around, where actual news is investigated and reported and followed up, and where BLACKLISTED topics like, "breaking your oath of office", "removing amendments of the constitution", "electronic vote tabulation device rigging and failures", "vote caging and voter id manipulation", "government corruption", "911 Coverups") are actually covered by journalists and broadcast in a timely enough fashion that people can take action. The way it stands now, the average person can't tell what damage the government is doing on a daily basis. They don't know what bills, resolutions, laws or nothing are up.

      An uninformed population is what is needed for fascism to take hold.

      And it's taken hold already.

    14. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Gee, and I thought I was paranoid about fascist corporations and government taking over the world. Look, bandwidth caps are NOT part of the conspiracy. Not even close. It was never, ever, not-even-for-a-second, possible to operate *unlimited* accounts.

      This is really *really* simple logic here okay..... In Order To Give Somebody UNLIMITED, You YOURSELF MUST HAVE UNLIMITED. I know that Santa Claus allegedly has a magic bag that you can pull out toys till the end of time, but the telecom companies don't have a magic network capacity bag.

      It was the marketing assholes that decided to lie to you. It was the telecom execs that decided to steal from you and not live up to their contracts. They are/were WRONG.

      That being said, the whole world right now is starting to slowly realize that we have to change the way we deliver bandwidth to people. We can't offer unlimited accounts since that is impossible and deceptive. I think that is the reason why you are so upset is that you been sucking on the *unlimited* tit for so long and now that your titty time is being threatened and your paranoia/conspiracy/tantrum side is exploding and lashing out.

      Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of shit wrong in the world, and I do BELIEVE that there is a conspiracy to promote fascism, one world government, and a complete reversal of human rights, I just DONT believe that bandwidth caps are a mean towards that end.

      You could also look at this another way.... bandwidth caps are a step in the right direction? Really? How? If we start implementing bandwidth caps (with throttling, NOT disconnects) and a more transparent competitive contracts with pragmatic pricing structures, then we ELIMINATE the need for DPI, Sandvine, etc. We don't need to have a P2P war with the ISP's then do we?

      Supposedly the whole reason why they are clamping down on the net is that there is a network capacity problem and they need to be able to deliver service to everyone regardless of the implications for privacy. Well if we solve the network capacity problem, then we remove the impetus for them to violate our privacy and enact controls that are not in the best interests of freedom.

      Furthermore, 900 GIGABYTES, that is NINE HUNDRED FARKING GIGABYTES A MONTH PER PERSON, is NOT hampering the transmission of free information everywhere. You don't need to put out an anti-establishment-fuck-the-man pamphlet in glorious blue-ray high definition goodness.

      900 Gigabytes could store an unbelievable amount of information in plain text. Try and calculate that. I guarantee you that is all the books in the world and then some. I don't mean rich text format crap either, just the straight text. You add some compressed scans of photographs and illustrations and that is a heck of lot of information you can be transmitting the rest of the world.

      So now, capping the bandwidth at nearly a terrabyte per person is not effectively stopping the flow of "alternate" information.

    15. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Teilo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And I agree completely with every one of the points you just made, but none of this has anything to do with HD - except in so far as HD can be used for more effective mind-numbing propaganda. But that's as bad as blaming the gun instead of the guy who pulled the trigger.

      The HD switchover has nothing to do with the Internet, unless you are really worried that HD will kill the free press online. Sorry, but you are making some very bizarre connections here.

      I ask you again - how does the HD switchover, in any way whatsoever, limit people's ability to broadcast on the internet? They can broadcast at SD quality today. They will be able to broadcast at SD quality tomorrow, which will work just fine on future equipment. People will broadcast in whatever quality they can afford, and the quality of the content, not the picture, will decide whether anybody tunes in.

      Oh, and by the way, nobody is being forced to upgrade their SD hardware to HD. That's why they are selling the converter boxes - so that nobody has to buy a new TV or VCR.

      --
      Mir tut es leid, Menschen daß Einfältigfehlersuchenbaumfolgendenaffen sind.
    16. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Wow. This is my 2nd post to you, and although I do agree with what you just said, it does not have anything to do with bandwidth caps.

      Limiting how many gigs a person can upload or download per month is not going to expose them to any more or less information during that month.

      The real problem is the lack of proper education, complete disillusionment and apathy towards government, and a culture hooked on meaningless crap to distract us from the train wreck to come. Were not even *real* Americans anymore. Just an increasing mass of toxic, drugged up, ignorant Sheeple that progressively settle for less and less.

      Panem et Circenses my friend.

    17. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      Okay, my brief description was worded wrong.

      Your right, it's not HD, it's Digital TV.
      (I admit, I am wrong)

      Kindly replace "HD" with "DTV" and the the argument remains.

      Data caps will silence dissent. Meanwhile content is transitioning to a format that is not in the public interest.

      But you know what, I can tell by the responses on this thread, you are thinking about this now, and that was indeed my intent.

      I don't want you to take my word on this, don't. Hell I couldn't even type the thread without making a blunder.

      There is however a convenience that DTV get's rolled out shortly after / during a major Presidential election, when many people won't be able to afford DTV, and there have been problems in EVERY election with the electronic vote tabulation devices.

      I guess there's always AM radio, except "oops", most of that is fascist corporate controlled. Instead of trying to list what is fascist corporate controlled, it's easier to list what isn't.

      College Radio
      Public Access (PEG programming)
      Nova-M (not in all cities)
      Air America (not in all cities)

      We are in trouble, that is my point, how is this situation going to change. Forget my typo's and forget what PARTY I may or may not belong to.

    18. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      Don't put words in my mouth, that's not what I said and you know it.

      Alternative news does take up a lot of bandwidth. Care to pay the bill for democracy now? And yeah your right, we should be talking about Japan, as it is in fact a test by proxy. We can watch and analyze happens.

      Try producing video. Try collaborating on a video production project. Try sending 13GB (1 hour) data on SD, then keep in mind that the goal is no more SD.

      Who's crazy now?

    19. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      So going with your ideas here, and stepping back a bit, let's enter the world oil cost problem.

      Now one would think with oil driving up the cost of food and everything else, we would be focused on alternatives, one of those alternatives should be a blazing speed bottomless pit access point. Encouraging telecommuting, and in general doing a hell of a lot more business on the web instead of driving around, chopping down trees for paper to be mailed and waste more.

      But instead of kicking out hell of infrastructure on communications, we going to what?

      That's right, cap your data.
      And Snoop on your data.

      So this way you can be both safe and controlled.

      Extra bonus points for putting together the rest of my "Tin-Hat theory", the possibility that having a bandwidth cap, also guarantees that anyone snooping on your data now has limits and numbers they can use to make sure they read every drop in time for supper.

      And finally I quote you,

      "So now, capping the bandwidth at nearly a terrabyte per person is not effectively stopping the flow of "alternate" information."

      It is stopping the flow of alternative information, when compared to the money and power and force that fascist corporate media has.

      And finally a question, "Why would you put fascist corporate propaganda above that of the truth?"

      Is it cause they have better transitions and effects? Just asking man...

    20. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      And yeah your right, we should be talking about Japan, as it is in fact a test by proxy. We can watch and analyze happens.

      Try producing video. Try collaborating on a video production project. Try sending 13GB (1 hour) data on SD, then keep in mind that the goal is no more SD.

      Who's crazy now?

      You are crazy. You say, "this is a test by proxy." That implies that the reason Japan doing this is because "THEY" (I am not clear on who you mean by they) are coercing Japan to do so. You are implying that there is some sort of conspiracy trying to control the free press, letting us only see what they want to see.

      The thing is, TV networks aren't controlled by some vast conspiracy. Sure, they focus on some stories and ignore others, but it is mainly because they are trying to show people things that they want to watch. The reason FOX exists at all is because a lot of people agree with what people like Bill O'Reilly are saying, and they like it when someone says something they agree with. Thus when Bill Clinton sent missiles into Iran as retaliation, it made a small paragraph news story on page A-16 in the US, whereas in El Salvador, for example, it was a moderately big headline. It is also why on some leftist news sites, you will hear all kinds of stories about illegal wire-tapping, but you will rarely find stories about US successes in Iraq. It is not a conspiracy.

      --
      Qxe4
    21. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      how does the HD switchover, in any way whatsoever, limit people's ability to broadcast on the internet?

      First I must correct you as (the fine folks here on /. have corrected me. It's not a switch to HD, it's a switch to Digital TV. -- my bad, I get it already.)

      Now that were on the same page, as people start working with HD the size of the data will increase. Just ask NFL football. They had the giant expose at NAB.

      Back to the data caps , if you think that working with video and collaborating is small it's not. I nearly threw up when I realized how much data we were talking about. I come from a humble fidonet background. I remember "quoting too much" as being annoying behavior, and now were all talking about terabytes and beyond.

      Let's get to the meat.

      Working and transitioning to DTV it's going to be worse. Some people will be forced to convert to all HD for reason's other than what you simply see here. So I guess they can spend lots of time transcoding formats. That's always fun. I like to transcode when I am trying to get a message out fast.

      But you see, the fascist corporate media doesn't have this problem. Which makes them more than a person.

      p2p is also under attack.
      Have you ever tried p2p tv? If the attack on that is successful, there goes another bit.

      See it's not that a DTV switch over by itself is inherently evil, it's all these little things.

      Seven years ago, I would never have thought that the whole US Constitution would be decimated.

      But then here we are, here we are my friend.

    22. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      Wrong Wrong Wrong.

      Now instead of putting words in my mouth your interpreting nonsense and linking it back.

      "TV networks aren't controlled by some vast conspiracy."

      Yes they are. Even the Wiki Entry is now being disputed because of this nonsense.
      Of course you could compare that to the Media Bias in the USA article, but I call it the way it is, it's fascism, it's corporate fascism, and it's fascist propaganda.

      Second of all your talking to a veteran.
      Trying to tell me about this mythical success story in IRAQ is pure bullshit and won't work here.. You can simply go to cryptome.org and count the bodies if you want to play that game.

      Third focusing on nonsense, and blacklisting important shit like electronic vote tabulation device rigging and failure is fascism, and that is not in the public's interest likePublic Access is.

      Corporate Fascist which does not serve the public interest. Look up the ownership, I already gave you the definition if you choose to read the background, you go a long way to "getting it."

      So yes they are controlled by a conspiracy, and yes they have been used for propaganda recently, and yes they are destroying our country by enabling fascism, and not doing investigative journalism.

      But you'll manage to get a +2 out of this conversation somewhere I am sure.

      While at the same time, I really don't give a fuck what you or anyone thinks.

    23. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by EdIII · · Score: 1

      So going with your ideas here, and stepping back a bit, let's enter the world oil cost problem.

      Now one would think with oil driving up the cost of food and everything else, we would be focused on alternatives, one of those alternatives should be a blazing speed bottomless pit access point. Encouraging telecommuting, and in general doing a hell of a lot more business on the web instead of driving around, chopping down trees for paper to be mailed and waste more.

      Hmmmmm, the cost of oil IS driving up the costs of pretty much everything, but not as directly with respect to communications as you would imply. It just simply is not putting that kind of pressure on people. When oil goes up $20, Cox Communications does not raise your bill by $1.65.

      It puts the pressure on the industry itself, but they cannot pass those costs directly onto their customers. They slow down on the expansion of their infrastructure, or increasing their capacity if you will.

      In any case you are wrong about telecommuting and more business being done on the web. A few years ago I drove my Prius 40 miles round trip 5 days a week to sit in a large air conditioned office to do my job, which was database programming.

      Today, I work entirely from home. I have a static IP with 6Mb/s down, 1 Mb/s up and I use VPN tunnels connected to three data centers to do my job. I drive about 90% less. I am not the only one. In order to compete with the countries that receive all of our outsourcing jobs companies like mine are progressively moving towards getting rid of offices entirely. Customer Service can now be run entirely through VOIP and you can have 100 agents all working from home. We have designed and implemented such technology that allows us to set up an agent to have secured access to customer records, only the data that they NEED BTW, and a VOIP connection back to the data center. The customer has no idea and cannot tell the difference, other than the fact that we speak English with an English accent, and we save on our costs.

      Guess how much less *oil* we use? A lot less. The employees don't have to travel and we save on ALL the costs associated with a huge office building.

      I doubt my company is that much different than a lot of other companies. Maybe the huge companies are still doing it the old way, but there is PROGRESS.

      So you are just entirely wrong about telecommuting and where businesses are going on the web.

      Complaining about the use of paper and junkmail has nothing to do with *oil* and bandwidth caps. No offense, but let's stay on topic. Although I agree with you about Junk Mail and think it should be against the law, that is an entirely different argument and has nothing to do with bandwidth caps or the conspiracies that you are referring to. Let's keep the ranting specific here and I mean that as nicely and politely as possible :)

      But instead of kicking out hell of infrastructure on communications, we going to what?

      That's right, cap your data.
      And Snoop on your data.

      I don't think you understand communications infrastructure. It is a lot more complicated than you make it out to be and the bandwidth caps are a step forward, not backwards. Bandwidth capping is actually moving us away from the need to "Snoop" on customers data and would allow us to have Net Neutrality.

      Bandwidth Capping != Snooping on Data.

      So this way you can be both safe and controlled.

      Only DPI (Deep Packet Inspection), DRM, Draconian Copyright Laws, etc. create an environment in where the customer can be "safe" and "controlled". Safety of the customer has nothing to do with it, it's actually safety of corporations profit margins. The reality is that it is "safety" through CONTROL. The fact that you think government would take advantage of this development to take away more of our freedoms, privacy and anonymity being

    24. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      They're moving to digital. In my area, at least, the stations are doing a mix of SD and HD. During the day they don't bother (or they broadcast SD programming upscaled to HD.. I can't tell the difference from the info my TV gives me), But all the new prime-time shows are in either 720(er.. something) or 1080p30.

      PBS seems to have a number of "extra" SD channels in addition to its sometime HD offering as well. To more than treble my total number of available streams of content over what I got over the air before.

      So.. it would be incorrect to characterize the switch as "SD transmitted digitally" although that is an option that some stations are taking.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    25. Re:PLANNED: February 2009 HD laws in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Otherwise known as DTV, and not SD.

  12. For you young folks... that was funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    There was a time there when the Mars lander had faster network speeds than I had in my house in a populous region of the USA. Nobody was willing to bring cable or DSL to our town, but the damn lander had a 256K connection.

    1. Re:For you young folks... that was funny. by B4RSK · · Score: 1

      256k is great and all but the latency's a biatch.

      A minimum of 6.5 minutes, worst case 44 minutes. I think I'll pass. ;)

      --
      Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
  13. I feel so sorry for the Japanese by rrohbeck · · Score: 5, Funny

    That clearly shows how bad their Internet infrastructure is compared to the US, where we have *unlimited* accounts!

    1. Re:I feel so sorry for the Japanese by xstonedogx · · Score: 2, Funny

      No kidding. I have Comcast and I've downloaded 30 GB just tod [NO CARRIER]

    2. Re:I feel so sorry for the Japanese by noidentity · · Score: 1

      I've had unlimited usage on my dialup account for years before broadband even existed!

  14. Well... by annex1 · · Score: 1

    Given the situation here in North America, I cannot bring myself to even begin to feel bad for them. The crap we put up with here, it actually makes me GLAD that they are capped like that.

    1. Re:Well... by Skuldo · · Score: 1

      Don't be so selfish.

  15. Fair usage by warlorddagaz · · Score: 1

    And I can't find the 200MB "fair usage" limit anywhere!

  16. Re:First Post by inotocracy · · Score: 4, Funny

    It must be this guy.

  17. And what's about the third world. by fcr · · Score: 2, Informative

    In my country (Uruguay), the residential upload capacity varies between 128kbps and 256kbps, that means we have an upload limit between 0.9GB daily and 1.8GB if we consider that only two thirds of the supposed kbps are really available.

  18. It gets worse (RTFA) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As if a 900gb cap wasn't bad enough, those poor fools are paying $46 a month for a weak 100Mbps line!

  19. There is - e.g. HD video from small indy networks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is, or at least there very soon will be. With coming HD video, streams will get into the gigabyte range soon enough and not all networks will be able to afford hosting like that. Imagine a small regional network. Maybe they don't have a lot of money behind them, but they can still make very interesting television for the local population, tourists planning a trip there, etc. Without caps the station could simply use a peer-to-peer like system to host their television programs and make do with a relatively low cost connection. But the upload bandwith has to go somewhere: to the viewers. If HD television over the internet kicks off, people will start hitting these limits pretty quickly. Maybe not the next year or so, but still pretty soon, and that could make it hard for small television stations to operate on the internet. HD television is just one example, but there could be all kinds of novel applications for uncapped broadband. Video conferencing? The next generation of MMO's? Remote installation? Who knows? If we will systematically cap broadband, there are a few things we do know: innovation will be hampered, there will be less pressure on the networks to increase bandwith if necessary, and small vendors and providers will get hit harder than large ones.

  20. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by couchslug · · Score: 1

    "Of course, it always helps when you completely rebuild your infrastructure after it being decimated after a war."

    Decimation is the loss of ten percent. It is tolerable casualties for a military unit, let alone infrastructure.
    Japan was far more devastated, giving it nearly a blank slate on which to rebuild.

    http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm#eeoaaatj

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  21. Benefit of HD News? by ya+really · · Score: 2, Funny

    What exactly is so interesting about watching the news in HD? Will it make Fox more "fair and balanced?" I could see them trying that though as a marketing ploy. "Watch Fox news in HD, where our views and stories 50% more clear!"

    1. Re:Benefit of HD News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but even news which is broadcast in HD usually just means the anchors are in HD. A lot of the actual 'news' content is still filmed with SD cameras.

    2. Re:Benefit of HD News? by WMD_88 · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for all the channels, but Fox Business Channel (lol) in HD is just a 4:3 picture of the main thing, aligned left, plus an extra sidebar of more stats, etc. on the right. All those tickers always distracted me, so it appears that - if all the other channels follow FBS - news in HD will get even worse.

  22. 900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by Xizer · · Score: 3, Funny

    I regularly upload more than 900 GB in a month on a residential connection and I live in the United States. I thought Japan was supposed to be some kind of broadband utopia? I must say, I am disappointed.

    1. Re:900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To upload 900 GB in a month, even constantly maxing out your bandwidth, you'd have to have an upstream connection of at least about 2.8 Mbps. Exactly where do you live that residential connections have >2.8 Mbps upstream?

    2. Re:900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by Xizer · · Score: 1

      I live in New York. I have Verizon's FIOS 20/20 Mbps plan.

    3. Re:900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by story645 · · Score: 1

      And it's actually stable? Been considering upgrading to it as I've got their DSL (also New York) and it's totally flakey.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
    4. Re:900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by Xizer · · Score: 0, Troll

      Holy shit please tell me you're just being an insightful troll who is posting informative flamebait right now, why the hell wouldn't you upgrade to Verizon FIOS instead of continuing to use their DSL service? Of course it's more stable and a billion times faster than their DSL. I don't know why they even offer DSL service in areas where they offer FIOS.

    5. Re:900 GB cap is unacceptable in my opinion. by story645 · · Score: 1

      Uh, 'cause I'd have to convince my mom (the person who's paying the bill) and it's more expensive, though she is the youtube watcher.... I just double checked and damn, it isn't available.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
  23. Here in Ireland... by mysqlbytes · · Score: 1

    Even with the bad infrastructure here in Ireland, I have an uncapped connection. Obviously I can't upload much at 512kbps a second.... Bring on the SDSL!

    1. Re:Here in Ireland... by HappySmileMan · · Score: 1

      512kbps download, 128kbps upload here. Permanet, Wexford... Also I can't get an un-NAT'd connection without upgrading to a business connection. Uncapped, but I think I'd still prefer this Japanese connection, despite it's crippling restrictions

    2. Re:Here in Ireland... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I share your pain. *Sigh*

    3. Re:Here in Ireland... by mysqlbytes · · Score: 1

      Why do you want an un-Nat'd setup? I only have 1 IP on a business setup. Can request up to 8 I think for about 10 euro a year. Would be handy, but port forward suffices all my torrenting needs :) I have to admit I did replace my DSL modem with a cisco one, so things are a bit easier to do the things I want :)

    4. Re:Here in Ireland... by HappySmileMan · · Score: 1

      Would be handy, but port forward suffices all my torrenting needs

      I don't know much about networking, but I've tried port forwarding, it didn't work, I've followed instructions on several sites, nothing, I called up and asked, they said I couldn't do it without a business connection.

      They say I don't get a public IP address unless I upgrade, which, they didn't explain it at all, but I'm pretty sure means that I go through some proxy controlled by them...
      I can't edit wikipedia articles without logging in, download from rapidshare without incredible luck, a lot of the time if I try to post on slashdot as an AC it tells me I have to wait between posts (regardless of when I last posted), all thanks to this

    5. Re:Here in Ireland... by mysqlbytes · · Score: 1

      Tell me more... I'm a sysadmin who loves a challenge. What else do these guys do? I would love to read their end user license agreement. Probably says something like "WE READ YOUR EMAIL!" Go to here and see if your ip address always changes, if it does everytime then they are proxying you in a pool of addresses, if it changes everytime you reboot your dsl modem, that's just because it's dhcp. I would be very very surprised if they proxied everything. Plus you can't proxy SSL sessions without breaking them, so things like gmail should act normally if they are doing things they aren't meant to... What make is the DSL modem?

  24. Wish we had that kind of cap by Randall311 · · Score: 1

    Good Lord, we should all be so lucky to have a cap that high.

  25. Correction.. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

    I misred the story.. thats 40 gigs in a day

    honestly, if you go through 40 gigs UPLOAD in a day, you've had enough for that day.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:Correction.. by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      Really?

      Let's see MiniDV NTSC SD video 1 Hour = 13GB

      40 / 14 = 3 (rounded)

      So in a 24 hour day you can cover 3 hours of world events, and collaborate with one person. Or cover 2 hours and hope you streaming content doesn't get DDoS'd.

  26. Luck in TN by peipas · · Score: 1

    What is "suck luck" and why do Tennesseans want it?

  27. calculation time by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    With my current TWC Road Runner connection, if I ran at max upload speed nonstop for every single second in an entire month, according to my calculations I'd be at almost 1/4 of that limit. That's nuts to even put that kind of limit on it. I don't know what kind of connection they have there but to hit that limit with just 6 hours a day at max speed for 30 days, it'd need to be over 41 megabits up. If you skip a few days or only go to like 3 hours, and you're not talking about multi-target uploads like p2p, the target computer's hard drive can't even write that fast. Gee, why didn't they just say a bajillion gigabyte cap?

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:calculation time by Shados · · Score: 1

      In many asian countries, multi-douzen megabit connections for the equivalent of 30$ a month is the norm (and thats based on several years old info, I didn't check recently, so its probably even more).

      Japan's population density is a LOT higher than the US, so having fiber in every house is quite simple to do.

    2. Re:calculation time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The population density in New York city is very close to that of the urban areas of Tokyo prefecture. Yet you don't see the same type of fiber roll outs. It may sound good that population density is the reason, but it's clearly not the only factor.

    3. Re:calculation time by Shados · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, according to data from 2007, tokyo's population density was of 4700 person per square km, vs 2050 for new york. Los Angele, the closest USA city on the list stands at about 2700. Nowhere close. Plus, if you go by population density of the country (since federal governments have a hand in pushing these things along), the US have an insignificant population density, while in Japan you'd have to cater to less total surface. Big difference.

    4. Re:calculation time by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Japan's population density is a LOT higher than the US, so having fiber in every house is quite simple to do.

      It's not just Japan and Korea with the silly population densities. They have decent speed (100Mbps up and down) connections in Sweden too, and they have a *lower* population density than the USA.

      It's simply a matter of having infrastructure provided by some mechanism other than a couple of huge companies with government granted monopolies.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    5. Re:calculation time by loraksus · · Score: 1

      2x population density still doesn't explain 20x inferior service at 5x the price.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  28. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by hedwards · · Score: 1

    Decimation is a loss of 10% when dealing with soldiers. Otherwise it has several other meanings. At this point the use of the word to mean what the GP said is the predominating definition and will be the definition in the future.

    http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861603101/decimate.html

    Not the best source, but I was too lazy to look for something better. Definition 2 would be the most common use of the word.

  29. and in sunny south africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We pay excessively, the most cost effective broadband plan being 3GB(total usage) Per Month!!! at a whopping R239 (roughly $30) per month excluding the adsl line rental. 4mb being top of the range for residential broadband which would come in at around $60. I can only look at these posts and cry

  30. Maybe I'm old-fashioned... by R3d+Jack · · Score: 1

    but, the intention of residential Internet service is mainly to allow people to download content. The ISP's can't afford to support a server site at residential rates, and more residential users can't afford business type service.
    For the *few* that want to run true server sites from their residences, go out and buy it. No one is stopping you.
    As far as Japan is concerned, isn't the limit around 37m upload rate continuously? The cap has to be targeted at (ab)users who are running server farms. Why is this even news?

    1. Re:Maybe I'm old-fashioned... by HappySmileMan · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it's a sarcastic post used to insult other countries limits, not Japan's.

  31. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.answers.com/decimation&r=67 Decimate originally referred to the killing of every tenth person, a punishment used in the Roman army for mutinous legions. Today this meaning is commonly extended to include the killing of any large proportion of a group.

    Try living in the 21st century. Stupid language nazis.

  32. Thank god by heroine · · Score: 1

    No more hand held, blurry, shaky, home movies of yesterday's wedding.

  33. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by SilverJets · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have my doubts that they were laying fiber after WWII.

  34. Major sanity loss by empaler · · Score: 1
  35. no-suck-luck-in-tennessee by UbuntuniX · · Score: 1, Funny

    My heart goes out to all those in Tennessee lacking the luck of suck.

  36. WOW clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's just completely wrong. Over-the-air stations have to switch to ATSC but there is absolutely no requirement for ANYBODY to switch to HD.

  37. a wedding video a day? by fermion · · Score: 1
    if you're in Japan and want to upload the HD movie you shot of yesterday's wedding, you soon might hit the limit. The downloaders do not face similar problems

    If you are shooting and uploading a wedding video every day, which implies that you probably do that for a living, then I would assume you can afford a professional connection to go along with the professional components of the trade. If you are uploading a wedding video a week, at normal speeds, then there is not issue.

    For those us with regular consumer accounts, who are going to upload or download DVD quality video, over speed achievable by mere mortals, we would never notice such a cap.

    In any case, this is clearly aimed at the consumer who does not have incredible amounts of original content to upload, but may want to watch movies over the internet. Not an unreasonable compromise. After all, how many of us want to subsidize the professional wedding photographer.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:a wedding video a day? by Devistater · · Score: 1

      Hmm, since its an "upload" cap in Japan with the download still uncapped, I fail to see how its "clearly aimed" at the "consumer" who wants to "watch movies over the internet"

    2. Re:a wedding video a day? by loraksus · · Score: 1

      If you are shooting and uploading a wedding video every day, which implies that you probably do that for a living, then I would assume you can afford a professional connection

      That's a crap argument, because none the options available to a single user / small company in the USA will allow for that sort of traffic.
      Cable and DSL providers will disconnect you for even half of that traffic. Ditto with T1s

      You want to go higher? Great.
      A T3 is still at least $5,000 a month (actually closer to 7.5k, and this is the first tier that - if you're lucky - you'll see reasonable limits / no limits on transfer). An OC3 at 20-50k a month.

      Let's not pretend data comm in the USA isn't shit service provided by greedy companies.
      Denial will get us nowhere.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  38. Caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Well, 10 years ago when I got my internet account, it had a 10 gigabyte a month limit.
    Seeing how I had a 3 gb harddisk, that sure seemed more then enough.
    10 years later I've still got a 12 (yep, +2!) gb limit...

    So think twice before you say "hey, that's a lot more then I can use each month!".

  39. That totally ruins my plan for immortality. by Sensei_knight · · Score: 1

    That totally ruins my plan for immortality. 900G a month is not nearly enough to upload my consciousness to the net.

    1. Re:That totally ruins my plan for immortality. by cptnapalm · · Score: 1

      Bah, you could upload yours on a 33.6 dial up in twenty minutes. :)

  40. ISP NOT telco by soramimicake · · Score: 1
    While the largest telco (NTT) is indeed the owner of the ISP (OCN) in question, but OCN is only a large ISP and do not have a monopoly in the market. Broadband service in Japan is mostly unbundled so you can get the physical line from NTT and internet service from a large number of ISPs, so the impact is limited at the moment.

    What is actually important is that most ISPs have already started to experiment with traffic control, but they don't tell you what their policies are (e.g. what limit they use, what traffic they block and what happens if you reach the limit). OCN is one of the first to come out with an explicitly stated cap.

    1. Re:ISP NOT telco by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      you're missing the point.

      it's 900GB per month!

      granted, they probably have only a tenth of the subscribers that comcast has.

      That still begs the question, why aren't ISPs and telcos and network owners investing in infrastructure? Are profits so precious that they can't invest in their future?

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
  41. might be someting else by Simple-Simmian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could the ISPs be telling the content providers to go jump in the lake?

    --
    If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
    Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
    1. Re:might be someting else by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 4, Informative

      I live in Japan, and recently my ISP told me specifically in a letter that they absolutely didn't track what I did and also didn't care - not to mention that there's a 20-year-old Japanese law that specifically bans spying on customers' communications that may actually cover this.

      They did request that I try not to get caught doing anything illegal, though. They said the worst that could happen is that they would cancel my contract and I would be forced to go sign up with a different fiber internet provider (there are at least two others in Osaka).

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    2. Re:might be someting else by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1, Redundant

      My ISP in Osaka recently sent me a letter that very specifically said that they neither tracked nor cared about what I did with my connection. There happens to be a twenty-year-old law on the books that prevents carriers from monitoring customers' communications, too.

      They did ask that I try not to get caught doing anything illegal. Apparently, the worst that could happen is that I could have my contract terminated and be forced to sign with one of the at least two other fiber internet providers in this area.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    3. Re:might be someting else by dmbasso · · Score: 3, Funny

      my deja-vus are getting weirder every time...

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    4. Re:might be someting else by LunarCrisis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently when you make an insightful post, you can post it twice with only minor changes to double the karma intake!

      --
      Mr. Period: Nine is the one that's right by ten!
      Nine: One day I will kill him. Then, I will be Ten.
    5. Re:might be someting else by LunarCrisis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently when you make an insightful post, you can double the karma intake by posting it twice with only minor changes!

      --
      Mr. Period: Nine is the one that's right by ten!
      Nine: One day I will kill him. Then, I will be Ten.
    6. Re:might be someting else by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      getting weirder every time, my deja-vus are...

  42. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Of course, it always helps when you completely rebuild your infrastructure after it being decimated after a war.

    There was no cable TV in the US or Japan after the war, it just didn't really exist, apart from maybe the DuMont network. Maybe.

    Fibre, of course, came much later.

    The 900 GB limit is, obviously, not for phone connections, considering it's impossible to upload 30 GB/day through ADSL-2+. It's for fibre, maybe cable (although I doubt that very much).

    So what's the excuse again? That we simply suck when it comes to doing things the right way? Thought so.

    (I suppose you could lame out with "but there's a vast population density difference". Puhhhhhleeeez. If that were the case, the most densely populated cities in the US would be competing with this technology. I don't hear of anyone with 40 mbits to the home in NY, NY, do you?)

  43. The Horror? by shivamib · · Score: 0

    Most impressive, I say I live in a small town near São Paulo, where Telefonica has complete monopoly over a laughable broadband. http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/informatica/ult124u419329.shtml I wish i still had a modem sitting around sometimes.

  44. The real intent... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 1

    This has nothing to do with piracy. It is an attempt to shut down non-corporate users from creating and distributing IP.

    Ding dong, the individual is dead!

    Long live the corporate fascists!

    It's time to bomb share holder meetings.

    Andy Out!

    1. Re:The real intent... by nowhere.elysium · · Score: 1

      Slashdot really needs a '+5 Asshat' option...

      --
      http://xkcd.com/313/
  45. Here in Aussie Land by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

    Sigh!, and all I have in the land of sun and sand is a paltry 23mb/s and 150GB cap for US$52/month.

    1. Re:Here in Aussie Land by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      23 millibits per second? I don't think you can download 150 gigabytes in a month.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Here in Aussie Land by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

      I did just that last December/January billing period.

    3. Re:Here in Aussie Land by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Not at 23 millibits per second, Einstein.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Here in Aussie Land by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Which ISP gives you a 150GB Cap for A$60?

      I barely get 20GB out of iishaft for A$70.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  46. 900GB spent uploading your wedding video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Talk about a new level of disingenious.

    You know and I know perfectly well that there's no way in hell you're uploading 900GB per month legally so let's drop the retarded pretenses.

    1. Re:900GB spent uploading your wedding video? by ribit · · Score: 1

      Here's an example... I'm in a small web business where I have to pay for my home connection, but sometimes need to backup photo data between home and office, and depending on how I might setup synching, I might send the whole 400GB accidently twice within a month.

    2. Re:900GB spent uploading your wedding video? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      • rsync is your friend.
      • alias is also your friend. It can prevent you from making such mistakes. (frankly, given Ubuntu's "user friendly" goal, I'm surprised alias rm="rm -i" isn't in the profile by default. It was in mandrake back in the day.)
      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:900GB spent uploading your wedding video? by ribit · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the tips... (I've had problems using rsync (being more producer than tech guy), now using Mozy which does block-levelbackup... But the question was about legality.. You are always going to have beginners and they will make mistakes an duse up huge bandwidth legally..

  47. Dear USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear USA,

    Please upgrade your networks so we can max out our 100Mbps fibre bandwidth, and download things quicker from you.

    Love,
    Japan

  48. More than enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In New Zealand, I enjoy a 20gb bandwith limit (upload + download combined). And my max d/l is about 500kb-600kb/sec.

    How I can't wait to move :)

  49. n00b! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You n00b! Look for the programs to reverse the mosaics! They use reversible mosaic censorship for a reason...

    1. Re:n00b! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give us a link already, Google's not helping. :(

      And hurry!!

  50. Well when did it get layed then? by patio11 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Before? :)

    1. Re:Well when did it get layed then? by that+IT+girl · · Score: 1

      LOL, you said "get laid" :D

      --
      10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
      20 DRINK COFFEE
      30 GOTO 10
  51. First thing I thought of when I read the snip of.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the article was "How many people will take this as it appears instead of thinking for three seconds?"

    It's a punch at the US infrastructure.

  52. My limited ISP by Haoie · · Score: 1

    I'm on a 5Gig a month plan, and it seems to suit quite well. Mostly because I don't download anything huge, and our speeds are slow as it is.

    Hard to imagine a 900G upload. My entire HD is only 120.

    --
    If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
  53. You misplaced your decimal point, I think? by achurch · · Score: 1

    30GB/day = 240,000,000,000 bits / 86400 seconds ~= 2.8Mbps

    At the average 40Mbps upstream I get, I could theoretically hit that with just 100 minutes of uploading a day. In fact, I routinely transfer gigabyte-range files to and from the office server, so it's not out of the question for me to break the limit every once in a while. (Then again, I have a business-class connection for my personal server, so I'm not worried.)

  54. Slashdot users not so good at math? by bconway · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you run the math on the 100/100 Mbit (Japanese) connections in question, these caps are equal to only 3% of a user's upload 24/7. In Comcast's area, that would be 324 MB a day for 6/1 service, or 9.7 GB a month.

    These caps are much, much worse for the service offered than Comcast's rumored 250 GB cap or the actual 400+ GB cap they currently use to remove excessive users from their network today.

    --
    Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
    1. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So? How many people actually want to use 100Mb/s anything close to 100% of the time? It's there so you can get an ISO image in under a minute, not so you can constantly stream that much data. If you are really uploading more than 30GB/day (and, remember, these caps are for uploading only, not for downloading), then you really should be paying for a commercial Internet connection, not a consumer-grade one.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by skulgnome · · Score: 1

      Yet no contract says that one isn't supposed to make all and any use of the connection. Thus the customer is, in fact, sold a 100/100 up/down pipe and nothing less.

      You, sir, are bowing down like a power fanboy. Snap the hell out of it.

    3. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but can you define for me, logically, what constitutes enough bandwidth for a commercial internet connection?

      Do you realize how much bandwidth usage has risen since the internet exploded into popularity around 1992 or so?

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    4. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by canuck57 · · Score: 1

      First, Asia including Japan have higher bandwidth needs as there character set is often represented in graphics and included in the transmission up and down. While we assume ASCII inside of html for text, theirs may be a long list of graphics files that are much larger.

      I also suspect they are much more into video on demand. They are not hindered by lobbyists to hinder the internet to replace TV. Right now they are hard selling HDTV, when it should be InternetTV. And bet sharing is high.

      Next, we should invite their ISPs to come over to the US and Canada and kick the ISPs buts. Why can't we have 100mbs up and down? I bet we pay more for less.

    5. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by putaro · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ummm, no. Text in Japanese is usually done as either Shift-JIS or EUC and occasionally as Unicode. 2-3 bytes per character. Graphics are used about as much as on English web pages.

    6. Re:Slashdot users not so good at math? by Kancept · · Score: 1

      You sound like the guy who said "640K of memory should be enough for anybody." Your use doesn't equal my use, and shouldn't we be thinking about the future?

  55. (Copy) Editors! It's a joke! Read your own typos! by BancBoy · · Score: 1

    Good grief, this comment is worth a chuckle. Mind you, it wouldn't be there to be made if there was some better copy editing on the site.

    --
    [UID-HeinzIntel]
  56. But it's DION that hosts the spammers' websites? by shanen · · Score: 1

    Actually, I wish Dion would do this--but it would doubtless interfere with their business model of hosting spammers' dating/porno websites. I've been monitoring Japanese spam for a long time, and in terms of hosting the websites, Dion (a subsidiary of KDDI) is clearly the leader--at least for my sample of spam over the last year or two. Their response rate in killing spammer domains averages about one per week--but the spammer just replaces those domains--and all of them point to the same IP address. Currently it's ZF044096.ppp.dion.ne.jp, though I think there are only two or three domains in use right now.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  57. Re:First Post by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

    Well, that was different, I'll give you that.

  58. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by dkf · · Score: 2, Informative

    So what's the excuse again? That we simply suck when it comes to doing things the right way?

    I don't know what your excuse is, but the reason is due to crappy regulation that's resulted in monopolies that aren't serving the public interest. When the infrastructure provider is necessarily the same as the service provider, you have a problem (since the infrastructure is inherently a monopoly; nobody's fond of lots of streets being dug up to put in new capacity). There used to be exactly the same problem in the UK; the regulator here was very close to BT (who had the market sewn up just as thoroughly as Ma Bell ever did in the US). But the government/regulator (I forget which) decided to force BT to allow competition for the service part, and that's prompted both reduced prices and greatly improved levels of service. The former monopoly is still a big player, sure, but they're a competitive big player now, and I believe that having a free market in ISP services is what you need too.

    If not, ask for yourselves (and your politicians) why the FCC hates capitalism and the free market, and goes instead for crypto-communist corporatism. Yeah, I know that's logically inconsistent, of course, but language like that is usually a good way to slant the argument the way you want.

    --
    "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  59. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have my doubts that they were laying fiber after WWII.

    But they will be after WWIII.

  60. One word: Narcissistic by Amitz+Sekali · · Score: 1

    What else can the reason for upload cap need :-).

    --
    If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
  61. 5+3+30+10+2 ~= 40? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be CS major in an all java school or you studied in one of these schools that replace math with intelligent design classes.

  62. Life is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I hope this new cap does not pose any problems for me. I have 60mbit down / 20mbit up.. I live near Tokyo, Japan. The entire country has fibre up the ass here for the most part (I've heard about 80%) and this stems from a totally different corporate culture here. It is starting to change and become more weestern (god help them), but generally in Japan the company you work for takes care of you a lot more and for a lot longer, and as a CEO you would stay with the same company for probably the rest of your career a lot more often. Because of this, the long-term success of a company is treated as being much more important than the short term profit / how the stocks perform this quarter. As such, Japanese companies are more willing to invest HUGE sums of money up front in R&D and infrastructure that wont make them any money for years and sometimes decades (Look at Tokyo's public transit/subway/monorail system, I've heard that it wont cover the debts it made to be built for another decade or two still, and they're still building new subway lines). This difference in corporate thinking is what has put the Japanese at the forefront in terms of technology applied to everyday living. Going back home to the US feels like walking into a technologically primative country, and not because the Japanese have any great marvels of technology, they simply spend more money on finding applicable ways to have technology contribute to everyday life.

    1. Re:Life is great by fullmetal55 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      one thing about Japan and infrastructure... Japan is a small high population density country, which means that for a company to upgrade it's entire infrastructure, it's highly condensed... different issues in the US, Canada, Australia.. etc. where to upgrade the infrastructure, you have to deal with a consumer base that's spread out far and wide. sure the cities could be upgraded faster, but then the smaller markets would feel left out or discriminated against. the networks we get are a small price to pay for the extra room. Japan has a space problem, not so much here...

    2. Re:Life is great by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Going back home to the US feels like walking into a technologically primative country

      Perhaps because it's inhabited by primates.

  63. Re:First Post by ajwitherby · · Score: 1

    It's OK, it's just a plan to stop uploads of incredibly boring vids of other peoples' weddings.

  64. Blu-Ray by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Time Warner's highest level tier for their experiment with usage-based pricing is 40 GB/month. This is less than the capacity of a single Blu-Ray disc. Sony must be doing a happy dance.

  65. No Limit! by CyberData4 · · Score: 1

    There shouldn't be a limit. Period. Companies need to upgrade their 10+ year old infrastructure before they even THINK about capping users. This is really irritating. And hell, I don't even download torrents. Not because I'm opposed to it, I just don't care enough to grab em all the time. I mainly just do alot of gaming (hosting) and netbrowsing/email. But I like to know that if I wanted, I could download whatever I wanted without a damned cap. Seriously, the broadband providers should focus on upgrades instead of caps. Oh, and the RIAA can blow me.

  66. I share my DSL with my neighbors by matty619 · · Score: 1

    And I'm a pretty heavy user myself, my DSL sees about 140 MB/month down and about 30 MB/month up. That's for me and about 15 other users (I live in a pretty densely populate area). I use DSL Extreme, they have no caps, and implicitly allow sharing in their ToS. I could get a faster connection through the local cable provider,(I get about 5.3Mb/s down and 680 Kb/s up) but I feel much more comfortable with a reseller.

    I think comcasts 250 MB/month cap is quite generous....for now.

    1. Re:I share my DSL with my neighbors by matty619 · · Score: 1

      woops, replace MB w/ GB

  67. Re:Japan VS. US Infrastructure. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    http://www.answers.com/decimation&r=67 Decimate originally referred to the killing of every tenth person, a punishment used in the Roman army for mutinous legions. Today this meaning is commonly extended to include the killing of any large proportion of a group.

    Try living in the 21st century. Stupid language nazis.

    Do you defy the mighty Caesar? I'll have you crucified for insolence!

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  68. C.A.P? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    Actually, it's a technical term for situations when you Can't Access Porno.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  69. Re:What about illegal (OMG TERRISTS!) file sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Piracy is probably the last thing the Japanese government would worry about. Perhaps a little look at the society here would help:

    Piracy is not very prevalent in the Japanese society. Their culture discourages it. People seldom pirate software, or share copyrighted videos (well if they did then they did not openly talk about it).

    From my personal experience having lived in several major cities, there are a few more reason why video piracy is not so prevalent in Japan.

    1. Japan has a culture rich in entertainment material. All possible videos can be found here, and rental is cheap. Even porn is cheap and easily accessible, either through the internet (free or paid) or DVD rental stores (EVERY store).

    2. The younger Japanese are all busy trying to find their niche rather than conform to the normal stuff that other people watches. It will be hard for them to understand why gaijins only watch the main-stream anime (e.g. Naruto).

    That being said, there are a few things to consider:

    1. people do use p2p for the really hardcore porn, but how prevalent is this I do not know. I have seen a student's download list made public by the school (the school was kind enough to not show his name).

    2. people do share videos on youtube or (more likely) nico nico. But these are more out of a desire to find "talking material" (neta) than entertainment.

  70. US vs Japan by Latinhypercube · · Score: 1

    Like it's even possible to upload 30gig in 1 day on US cable, that is never going to happen. I'd love to have a 30gig upload cap. Jeez, the speed we are at I'd be seriously amazed to download 30gig in 1 day. Funny, the US news is talking about how most US online don't even want cable - ie. they are fucking retarded.

  71. s/1000/1024 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's 295 GB.

  72. South Africa for the loss. by rodvdka · · Score: 2, Informative

    it could be much worse, imagine, a connection with a top speed of 512kbs, where your international cap is 3GB and your local cap is 10GB and once you hit that, you got to wait till next month. well, this is the reality I have to deal with in South Africa thanks to Telkom, so, is 30GB a day really that bad? :P PS: I solved my problem, went to a varsity, tunnel out, uncapped fast internet for the win.

    1. Re:South Africa for the loss. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol niggers having a hard time catching up with technology

      In before Troll/Flamebait/Offtopic rating.

  73. not enough competition ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here in France the first broadband ISP in the 90s (mostly 512 kbps cable then) had ridiculous caps like 5gb upload per month.

    This lasted quite some time because every cable provider had a de facto monopoly on the areas they deployed their infrastructure in.

    Then came ADSL and laws that forced France Telecom to lease its copper loop to other ISPs. There's no such obligation for cable networks.

    After some time and healthy competition, prices started to plunge, upload caps were removed, speed caps too ...

    Today I have 5mbps adsl + 100mbps cable both uncapped for half the price of my first 512 kbps capped connection, and trust me, we would still be there, had cable been the the only alternative.

  74. unfair by lasse_2 · · Score: 1

    Living in Tokyo. I think that the 30G per day is to low, I am happy I do not have Dion as my ISP.

    Here you can get fiber installed at home for free when I got it.. might be 10.000 yen now not sure.

    Lars

  75. 30G a little low for me. by lasse_2 · · Score: 1

    Living in Tokyo. I think that the 30G per day is to low, I am happy I do not have OCN as my ISP.
    Is there any reason except from the network for the ISP will run slower? What about upgrading..

    Good there is ton's of competition, I have around 20 different providers than can give me fiber here.

    Here you can get fiber installed at home for free when I got it.. might be 10.000 yen now not sure.

    Lars

  76. Re:First Post by pipatron · · Score: 1

    epic thread!

    --
    c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
  77. How About HughesNet Internet by Satellite? by Secret+Agent+Man · · Score: 1

    In regards to their fair access policy, if you exceed more than your not-quite-daily allotted download limit (200 MB for the basic home account, which in addition to installation fees is $60/month), you're connection becomes slower than dial-up for a period of no less than 24 hours. Web pages will take forever to load, if they don't time out. Good luck getting anything else to work. In addition to the naturally large latency (a minimum of 500ms) due to the signal having to travel to space and back, which makes online gaming impossible, I'm lucky enough to see downloads of anything greater than 20 kB/s most of the time. We have to deal with this sort of garbage, all because cable and DSL services are not available in the area. I'd gladly welcome a better solution than this tripe.

  78. Verizon is Awesome! (Bandwith Log ITP) by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

    http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tempax7.gif

    I've actually had FIOS (20/5/$50) for about a year now at these usage rates, but my router died and I had to get a new one in June. I've had absolutely zero complaints, which is not shocking since the glass they strung up is far from capacity. If I'm costing them more than my user fees, I would be glad to pay extra to cover my usage (seriously).

    For those of you that complain that you just can't use that much bandwidth, I suggest you try a little harder. Be creative: host your own flash videos, use sshfs to mount your music directory from wherever, set up SVN repositories for everyone you know, . . .

  79. Re:What about illegal (OMG TERRISTS!) file sharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Three men are currently being tried in Japanese court because they uploaded a few too many anime episodes on Share, and one of them's looking at what will probably be 18 months in jail (link in Japanese), if the prosecutors get their way.

  80. Not the right solution by Matthieu+Araman · · Score: 1

    I don't like this kind of solution (bandwith limits download or upload):
    I had one in the past and I switched of provider as soon as I could to get rid of it.(and other problems)
    - even if you don't go over the bandwith limit, you're connection is not unlimited so you always have to ask yourself how much I have used.
    - when you download, your upload goes up. (In my case downloading a few iso linux was enough to make your upload limit reached)
    - if somebody knows you've got this kind of limit, he may be able to initiate data transfer with you (in both way) and making you reach the limit (which can make you pay more, cut your line,...)
    - you're very dependant on all the software which can initiate data transfer in background
    - it doesn't allow you to be a data provider easily (ie sending documents, video, saving your data over Internet, having your web server,...)

    I believe the provider should have the infrastructure able to sustain the trafic sold to customers (even if statistically a few customers make the most trafic)

  81. Lrn2Conserve by TheRon6 · · Score: 1

    myISPcapsmyupload2soIdontusespacesorpunctuationinmyposts2conservebandwidth Ivenoticeddoingsoisprettypopularhereon/.

    --
    Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
  82. UPload caps by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

    This is actually an interesting way to attack the media-sharing peer networks and their seeders without affecting "mainstream" video sources (i.e. old media companies holding copyright). Since there's no download cap, the viewers of streaming content won't be harmed (except in their ability to download from the peer networks). Since the mainstream media companies already pay for commercial connections, it won't affect them.

    --
    We are the 198 proof..
  83. Re:What about illegal (OMG TERRISTS!) file sharing by loraksus · · Score: 1

    if the prosecutors get their way

    Not to start a flame war, but... It's Japan, the prosecutors will get their way, one way or another.

    The Japanese legal system can easily be abused by prosecutors who are pressured to never lose. So once someone is charged - correctly or not - they will eventually result in a guilty verdict, regardless of the actual facts of the case or if innocence is discovered during the proceedings.

    Virtually indefinite imprisonment ("bail" is essentially never granted and they have a special name for it - "daiyo kangoku"). Even if you're found not guilty, the prosecutor just refiles the case, asks for "remand" and the process continues over and over again.

    In virtually all trials, more time is spent during the sentencing phase than the actual trial, which seems to indicate that the guilt of the person is more or less irrelevant.

    There are also numerous cases of forced confessions, abuse, days of interrogations, blank confession forms being signed in capital cases, etc, etc. Oh, sleeping judges (and since there is no jury...) and defense attorneys who don't want to wake them and quietly mumble their arguements.

    It's a pretty fucked up system for a first world country. They're introducing reforms, but the reforms won't take effect until 2009.

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    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
  84. ... unlimited unless you use too much... by Hucko · · Score: 1

    I am confused by your statement.

    --
    Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    1. Re:... unlimited unless you use too much... by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      They advertise unlimited, but if they think your using it too much then they disconnect you.

    2. Re:... unlimited unless you use too much... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Reasonable limits aren't.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  85. As others have said by D.McGuiggin · · Score: 1

    What do bandwidth caps portend for small business - you don't have to be an attorney to create media - consider advertising firms, contractors, real estate - all could easily top the cap without being able to plan ahead.

    As others have said, it's pointless to discuss how this cap could influence your business when you shouldn't be using it anyway, you should have a commercial account.

    Use the right tool for the job chief.

    1. Re:As others have said by grolaw · · Score: 1

      Moron!

      I have a business account and said so. "How about off-site, real-time backups for a small law firm? I pay $200.00/mo for 1.5meg up and down with no caps. Amazon's Jungle Disk might be worthwhile if I could manage 5 terabytes or so....a month."

      How many users pay $200/mo for a mere 1.5 up and down? That is a commercial account with Time/Warner's Roadrunner.

      So, take your foolish assumptions and shut the F up. You don't do anything but show that you are a doctrinaire jerk by telling me what I should do when you haven't even read the message.

      Take your bossy self, bend over. Look closely at the ground. Stay there. Ignore those hunger pains. Die.

      Nothing personal - just GTFA idiot.

    2. Re:As others have said by D.McGuiggin · · Score: 1

      "Moron!"

      Why are you introducing yourself, I already know who you are.

      I have a business account and said so.

      I KNOW THAT YOU FUCKING IDIOT. Why do you think that makes your idiotic discussion of your business any more relevant?

      So, take your foolish assumptions and shut the F up.

      Attorney, fuck thyself. YOU were discussing something that has NOTHING to do with this topic, you raging imbecile.

      Don't get defensive because YOU said something that had fuck all to do with the discussion and I called you loser ass on it.

    3. Re:As others have said by grolaw · · Score: 1

      Caps are caps. If they are put in place for the consumer - a vastly larger body of users than small business - then what do the caps portend for small business. It is an end run around the - widely opposed - net neutrality act.

      As for you being a moron - your post was so unclear that there is no way to tell that your argument was against a business use. Read the post(s) and, go outside and lay on an anthill.

  86. Thanks, I knew you knew you were wrong by D.McGuiggin · · Score: 1

    Caps are caps. If they are put in place for the consumer - a vastly larger body of users than small business - then what do the caps portend for small business.

    Nothing.

    As for you being a moron - your post was so unclear that there is no way to tell that your argument was against a business use

    Oh I see, I'm a moron because YOU can;t understand what you're reading.

    That makes as much sense as your retarded argument.

    Read the post(s) and, go outside and lay on an anthill.

    I did read the posts, they don't make your posts any less idiotic and inapplicable.

    In case you're wondering, calling me names when you're wrong and an asshole doesn't make you less wrong or less of an asshole. And telling me that I should "lay in an anthill" might as well be you saying " I know you're right, I just don't have an argument so I'll call names and tell you to lay in an anthill because that's the best I can do".