Lets try this on other moral issues? Why should you be allowed elect a leader who would make it a crime for me to save another human life?(anti abortionists who consider stopping an abortion akin to saving someone from being stabbed) Why should you be allowed to elect a leader who believes me to be little more than an incubator? (other side)
Why should you be allowed to elect a leader who would make me do anything that I don't want to do?
why should you be allowed elect a leader who doesn't let my child wear a cross to school and so damns them to hell? (note I'm not religious in the slightest but this line of argument is just to wrong )
Ah I see. So it's more like "The screwdriver can be used to stab someone in the face, hence only I and people I like and trust should be allowed own screwdrivers" Closer?
By god you're right! Democracy and freedom of speach must be done away with! Especially in the most heavily armed countries like the US since they would pose the greatest risk to the rest of the world if this happened.
The people living there, if given the freedom to decide their own fate might decide to do do something I don't approve of. Hence only I deserve such rights.
One good point about the net, once enough data is being moved around you can hide a hell of a lot in the noise without any real chance of getting caught. building a group is where all the risk is. talking to each other can be achieved extremely covertly.
One reason I love somethingawful. I wonder if the examples they publish are their normal reaction but they do seem to get a lot of threats along the lines of "People are making fun of us....on the internet...make them stop or else!" and their responses always crack me up.
They have no common carrier status. Never did. Psychologicaly you're correct though, once they opened the door to the idea that they could search for one thing every fool with an agenda realised he could get his piece.
"Stop this (perfectly legal thing) or our teams of lawyers will fuck up your life" seems to be the new iteration of having thugs beat up a family member or sending pictures of your kids playing outside. The intent is merely to scare people.
I'd be curious about how much private foreign aid comes out of the EU, I can't find solid figures. When you talk about the US and private donations keep in mind that one of the many ways those figures are inflated to look better is that they include money sent home by immigrants to their families. In the cases of some of the most insanely inflated figures they even include estimated money sent home by illegal immigrants. just keep that in mind.
All countries soldiers steal, rape and destroy when they can get away with it. Humans are monsters and US soldiers are human. Talk to a british person and they'll be certain that their boys don't do any of those things in combat zones. Talk to a *any nationality* and they'll believe that their own soldiers don't do that kind of thing. But the US is different. Sure. because of... um... well... freedom... um... the flag... um... greatest country on earth....
There have been enough extremely high profile monsters who served in the US military, ordered barbaric things or did them themselves and then either got away scot free or got a slap on the wrist. This is no different from any other national military but don't delude yourself that the US is any better. Have a google for '"William Calley " Medinia' and see how the military doesn't give the slightest rats ass about the even the most brutal crimes. have a look and see how long he stayed in jail. Have a look and see what the crime was. Have a look and see what happened to the person who tried to blow the whistle , have a look at how many tried to cover things up and were never punished. Then come back and tell me that "Those individuals who commit acts like that are prosecuted."
You're right though, the US isn't evil, its citizens turn a blind eye to these things but the US certainly isn't evil.
So, you quote some private non-governmental organization with a vested interest in pressuring the richer countries to contribute more and that uses statistics (lies, damn lies, and statistics) to "prove" the US isn't "doing it's fair share". Here's a news flash Bunky...WE DON"T OWE ANYONE A DAMNED THING! We give and in the amount we choose because that is OUR prerogative, not yours or anyone elses.
Try reading my post. I said "Now that's no reason to knock the US, any donation is a help when it comes to these things.". Apparently reading (and comprehension) is NOT fundamental for you.
This is the second time you've mentioned Fox News in this one post. Obsess, much?
Oh, it's simply that you strike me as part of their target market.
Amnesty International has become politicized and has become a tool of the more left-leaning ideologues in recent times, which is sad. Especially for those to whom they could be devoting those resources that are instead being used to wage political/ideological attacks.
Amnesty could go and complain at china, sure, but nothing would be done. At least if they complain at america there's a chance that America will clean up it's act. You see there are some americans who unlike you realise that Amnesty might just have a legitimate reason for those lists of abuses. But no, you just love being the victim. Everyones just being unfair to you!
*I* have, but in your case it's apparent that there are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
Hi Pot! let me introduce myself, I'm kettle.
Right. Because everyone knows that the US never gets unfairly-bashed, especially on/.
By it's mostly american userbase....
Darfur Darfur Darfur
Seriously, is that all you've got? How's assive Democratic Republic of Congo, Somalia, Iraq, Sudan, and Pakistan, Myanmar and Zimbabwe going for you guys since you're the only force for good in the world?
It's ok, son...when you gain some age & maturity, you'll be able to separate your emotions from logic and actual history, and be able to think these things through more clearly.
And when your balls drop you might be able to do the same.
Ah because the good old US of A is the perfect country where sunshine flows out of the assholes of the general population. Do you even realise that you get taught a biased version of world events? It's natural, every country does it, but at least I don't pretend it doesn't happen in my country.
You hear about the places where your government steps in to help, we hear about where ours step in to help. You decide the other countries are all useless (because fox news has little time for places that aren't interesting to americans for lack of American troops to support) and news of what america is up to hits the headlines hardest in other countries when there's a fuckup and lots of people die.
Actually the EU provides more official foreign development aid than the US. http://www.results.org/website/article.asp?id=3558 The EU states of France germany and the UK alone beat the US and when you consider how much wealthier the US is those countries are giving twice the percentage of Gross National Income that the US is. Now that's no reason to knock the US, any donation is a help when it comes to these things.
But but but but...fox news said america is the only country in the world that ever does anything good!!!!! On balance I'd call the US a positive force in the world but you seem to believe that that translates to "nobody should ever point out when US does something of questionable morality, amnesty international shouldn't even look at the US!"
First- Check your fact. Second- stop with the fucking persecution complex.
The emperors staff/officials. Roosevelt simply dismissed it out of hand.
Few believed they could win at that stage,but some on the army did however believe they could win at least one significant battle before offering surrender in order to get more lenient terms.
"By the end of January 1945, some Japanese officials close to the Emperor were seeking surrender terms which would protect his position. These proposals, sent through both British and American channels were assembled by General Douglas MacArthur into a 40-page dossier and given to President Roosevelt on February 2, two days before the Yalta conference. The dossier was reportedly dismissed by Roosevelt out of hand -- the proposals all included the condition that Emperor's position would be assured, albeit possibly as a puppet ruler."
Yes there were factions which didn't want peace but the simple fact is that Roosevelt wasn't even willing to look at the surrender terms.
the loss of Japanese lives would have been far higher if America had invaded... rather than accept the offers of surrender made before the atomic bombs were ever droped... oh... wait... they don't bother teaching that bit in American highschools do they?
ah, so if the ceo of walmart spends a year of his life running the company and he doesn't get that little extra slice of profit because some people shoplifted, that's "petty"??? Yes, it is. It's a year of your life for which you might, possibly, have made a little more profit.
But of course in your world if one person doesn't pay you for his copy and ten thousand others do pay you then your life is ruined and you're being treated on a par with slaves chained up in the holds of ships.
I'm a programmer, I see the value of sane and limited copyright(even if the current system is broken) but I'm not so insane as to equate some 13 year olds using copies of my apps without paying for them with being a slave since I'm still getting paid well by the huge chunk of the population that is perfectly willing to pay for their software. Idiots who claim that filesharing, something even less significant than petty theft should be treated as any more than what it is, a petty offense, just weaken the case of those of us who simply want sane copyright law when the next generation hit voting age and have learned to equate arguments in favor of any kind of copyright law with your kind of insane spin and exaggeration.
Guess what, if you weren't able to make any money off some crappy song or applicaiton it almost certainly wasn't because of filesharing. Much more likely it was simply a crappy piece of music or a crappy application that nobody wanted enough to pay for. But deluding yourself that it's because of filesharing might save your ego. At worst it shaves a fraction off the market, the fraction which is least likely to buy your work anyway.
So start with the data for the next hour, then 2 hours from now, then 3. You don't have to wait till all the weeks data is there before listing the next hours shows or todays shows. And no, you're not downloading on the equivilent of 56K. That's ridiculous.
Just putting things in perspective. I mean really, you equated the horrors of slavery with something which at very very worst is petty theft. If getting things without compensating anyone for their time is all that you require to define slavery then every kid who shoplifts a candy bar should be charged with slave trafficking. The "piracy is slavery" argument is a stupid argument which I wish would just die since it both demeans the plight of real slaves in the past and in other countries today.
If you create a work, copyright it and sell it but some fraction of the consumer base pirates your work you have not been made a slave. Nobody forced you to do anything, you did all the work of your own free will, the pirates didn't come to your house, abduct you, chain you to the chair in a recording studio and make you sing until you coughed up blood. You are no more a slave to the pirates than the CEO of Walmart is a slave to the kids who shoplift.
While I do think the current patent and copyright laws are badly broken and need revision I'm going to agree with you that not paying the creator for a copy of their copyrighted product is immoral somewhat like petty theft is immoral.
Slashdot Mirror
Lets try this on other moral issues?
Why should you be allowed elect a leader who would make it a crime for me to save another human life?(anti abortionists who consider stopping an abortion akin to saving someone from being stabbed)
Why should you be allowed to elect a leader who believes me to be little more than an incubator? (other side)
Why should you be allowed to elect a leader who would make me do anything that I don't want to do?
why should you be allowed elect a leader who doesn't let my child wear a cross to school and so damns them to hell?
(note I'm not religious in the slightest but this line of argument is just to wrong )
Ah I see.
So it's more like
"The screwdriver can be used to stab someone in the face, hence only I and people I like and trust should be allowed own screwdrivers"
Closer?
If the world was made up of clones of you that would be great.
Why should you get to dictate what sort of leader I'm allowed want?
By god you're right!
Democracy and freedom of speach must be done away with!
Especially in the most heavily armed countries like the US since they would pose the greatest risk to the rest of the world if this happened.
Translation:
The people living there, if given the freedom to decide their own fate might decide to do do something I don't approve of.
Hence only I deserve such rights.
Oh sure, it's fine when it's a group you don't like but
First they came for the Communists...
One good point about the net, once enough data is being moved around you can hide a hell of a lot in the noise without any real chance of getting caught.
building a group is where all the risk is. talking to each other can be achieved extremely covertly.
One reason I love somethingawful. I wonder if the examples they publish are their normal reaction but they do seem to get a lot of threats along the lines of "People are making fun of us....on the internet...make them stop or else!" and their responses always crack me up.
They have no common carrier status. Never did.
Psychologicaly you're correct though, once they opened the door to the idea that they could search for one thing every fool with an agenda realised he could get his piece.
"Stop this (perfectly legal thing) or our teams of lawyers will fuck up your life" seems to be the new iteration of having thugs beat up a family member or sending pictures of your kids playing outside.
The intent is merely to scare people.
I'd be curious about how much private foreign aid comes out of the EU, I can't find solid figures.
When you talk about the US and private donations keep in mind that one of the many ways those figures are inflated to look better is that they include money sent home by immigrants to their families. In the cases of some of the most insanely inflated figures they even include estimated money sent home by illegal immigrants. just keep that in mind.
All countries soldiers steal, rape and destroy when they can get away with it. Humans are monsters and US soldiers are human.
Talk to a british person and they'll be certain that their boys don't do any of those things in combat zones.
Talk to a *any nationality* and they'll believe that their own soldiers don't do that kind of thing.
But the US is different. Sure. because of... um... well... freedom... um... the flag... um... greatest country on earth....
There have been enough extremely high profile monsters who served in the US military, ordered barbaric things or did them themselves and then either got away scot free or got a slap on the wrist.
This is no different from any other national military but don't delude yourself that the US is any better.
Have a google for '"William Calley " Medinia' and see how the military doesn't give the slightest rats ass about the even the most brutal crimes. have a look and see how long he stayed in jail. Have a look and see what the crime was.
Have a look and see what happened to the person who tried to blow the whistle , have a look at how many tried to cover things up and were never punished.
Then come back and tell me that "Those individuals who commit acts like that are prosecuted."
You're right though, the US isn't evil, its citizens turn a blind eye to these things but the US certainly isn't evil.
So, you quote some private non-governmental organization with a vested interest in pressuring the richer countries to contribute more and that uses statistics (lies, damn lies, and statistics) to "prove" the US isn't "doing it's fair share". Here's a news flash Bunky...WE DON"T OWE ANYONE A DAMNED THING! We give and in the amount we choose because that is OUR prerogative, not yours or anyone elses.
Try reading my post. I said "Now that's no reason to knock the US, any donation is a help when it comes to these things.". Apparently reading (and comprehension) is NOT fundamental for you.
Strictly speaking the US owes china quite a lot of money :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
ok ok, that's no part of anything and just taking your words litteraly.
This is the second time you've mentioned Fox News in this one post. Obsess, much?
Oh, it's simply that you strike me as part of their target market.
Amnesty International has become politicized and has become a tool of the more left-leaning ideologues in recent times, which is sad. Especially for those to whom they could be devoting those resources that are instead being used to wage political/ideological attacks.
Amnesty could go and complain at china, sure, but nothing would be done. At least if they complain at america there's a chance that America will clean up it's act. You see there are some americans who unlike you realise that Amnesty might just have a legitimate reason for those lists of abuses. But no, you just love being the victim. Everyones just being unfair to you!
*I* have, but in your case it's apparent that there are none so blind as those that refuse to see.
Hi Pot! let me introduce myself, I'm kettle.
Right. Because everyone knows that the US never gets unfairly-bashed, especially on /.
By it's mostly american userbase....
Darfur Darfur Darfur
Seriously, is that all you've got?
How's assive Democratic Republic of Congo, Somalia, Iraq, Sudan, and Pakistan, Myanmar and Zimbabwe going for you guys since you're the only force for good in the world?
It's ok, son...when you gain some age & maturity, you'll be able to separate your emotions from logic and actual history, and be able to think these things through more clearly.
And when your balls drop you might be able to do the same.
Those dirty underhanded Japs!
Ah because the good old US of A is the perfect country where sunshine flows out of the assholes of the general population.
Do you even realise that you get taught a biased version of world events?
It's natural, every country does it, but at least I don't pretend it doesn't happen in my country.
You hear about the places where your government steps in to help, we hear about where ours step in to help.
You decide the other countries are all useless (because fox news has little time for places that aren't interesting to americans for lack of American troops to support) and news of what america is up to hits the headlines hardest in other countries when there's a fuckup and lots of people die.
Actually the EU provides more official foreign development aid than the US.
http://www.results.org/website/article.asp?id=3558
The EU states of France germany and the UK alone beat the US and when you consider how much wealthier the US is those countries are giving twice the percentage of Gross National Income that the US is. Now that's no reason to knock the US, any donation is a help when it comes to these things.
But but but but...fox news said america is the only country in the world that ever does anything good!!!!!
On balance I'd call the US a positive force in the world but you seem to believe that that translates to "nobody should ever point out when US does something of questionable morality, amnesty international shouldn't even look at the US!"
First- Check your fact.
Second- stop with the fucking persecution complex.
The emperors staff/officials. Roosevelt simply dismissed it out of hand.
Few believed they could win at that stage,but some on the army did however believe they could win at least one significant battle before offering surrender in order to get more lenient terms.
"By the end of January 1945, some Japanese officials close to the Emperor were seeking surrender terms which would protect his position. These proposals, sent through both British and American channels were assembled by General Douglas MacArthur into a 40-page dossier and given to President Roosevelt on February 2, two days before the Yalta conference. The dossier was reportedly dismissed by Roosevelt out of hand -- the proposals all included the condition that Emperor's position would be assured, albeit possibly as a puppet ruler."
Yes there were factions which didn't want peace but the simple fact is that Roosevelt wasn't even willing to look at the surrender terms.
the loss of Japanese lives would have been far higher if America had invaded... rather than accept the offers of surrender made before the atomic bombs were ever droped... oh... wait... they don't bother teaching that bit in American highschools do they?
They refused to surrender. TWICE.
You made a typo
"Their surrender was refused. TWICE."
If the government of Japan had just cared enough about their own citizens lives it never would have happened.
Like if they'd offered to surrender... multiple times...
So why can schools apply these parental rights even after a student has passed 18 years old and is no longer a child?
ah, so if the ceo of walmart spends a year of his life running the company and he doesn't get that little extra slice of profit because some people shoplifted, that's "petty"???
Yes, it is.
It's a year of your life for which you might, possibly, have made a little more profit.
But of course in your world if one person doesn't pay you for his copy and ten thousand others do pay you then your life is ruined and you're being treated on a par with slaves chained up in the holds of ships.
I'm a programmer, I see the value of sane and limited copyright(even if the current system is broken) but I'm not so insane as to equate some 13 year olds using copies of my apps without paying for them with being a slave since I'm still getting paid well by the huge chunk of the population that is perfectly willing to pay for their software.
Idiots who claim that filesharing, something even less significant than petty theft should be treated as any more than what it is, a petty offense, just weaken the case of those of us who simply want sane copyright law when the next generation hit voting age and have learned to equate arguments in favor of any kind of copyright law with your kind of insane spin and exaggeration.
Guess what, if you weren't able to make any money off some crappy song or applicaiton it almost certainly wasn't because of filesharing. Much more likely it was simply a crappy piece of music or a crappy application that nobody wanted enough to pay for. But deluding yourself that it's because of filesharing might save your ego.
At worst it shaves a fraction off the market, the fraction which is least likely to buy your work anyway.
hmmm... 20 cents worth of power or a 2 dollar magazine...
So start with the data for the next hour, then 2 hours from now, then 3.
You don't have to wait till all the weeks data is there before listing the next hours shows or todays shows.
And no, you're not downloading on the equivilent of 56K. That's ridiculous.
Just putting things in perspective.
I mean really, you equated the horrors of slavery with something which at very very worst is petty theft.
If getting things without compensating anyone for their time is all that you require to define slavery then every kid who shoplifts a candy bar should be charged with slave trafficking.
The "piracy is slavery" argument is a stupid argument which I wish would just die since it both demeans the plight of real slaves in the past and in other countries today.
If you create a work, copyright it and sell it but some fraction of the consumer base pirates your work you have not been made a slave. Nobody forced you to do anything, you did all the work of your own free will, the pirates didn't come to your house, abduct you, chain you to the chair in a recording studio and make you sing until you coughed up blood. You are no more a slave to the pirates than the CEO of Walmart is a slave to the kids who shoplift.
While I do think the current patent and copyright laws are badly broken and need revision I'm going to agree with you that not paying the creator for a copy of their copyrighted product is immoral somewhat like petty theft is immoral.