If the title reads "Shanghai Government proposes 100 community DIY labs", guess it wouldn't even make to/. front page, would it? You really have to, must, can't resist to, put these politically right and sensationally arousing words together: china, hack, spy, war, thief, communist, rights, in every single f*** post about china, would you?/. editors, thought you could be better, but realize you're the same kind Christmas hating, Happy Holiday saying, China hating, freedom fighter (at long as agreeing with me) loving, terrorist (as soon as not agreeing w/ me) bashing, bunch of brainwashed sheep.
For anyone who's not an ultra nationalist and does have fully developed brain, take a look at this interview of Michael Hudson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P1fihT5B7o. It explains why our nation and our national policies against China will never work as we wish -- because if we switched roles, we wouldn't give a damn about what the idiotic US says neither.
I can buy your companies, invest in your infrastructure; but you can't -- let's play by the rules, my rules! I can denounce your currency manipulations, passing laws to force you to appreciate Yuan, but I myself can print $$, dishing out QE1/QE2 -- let's play by the rules, my FUCKING rules!
No wondering other non-western countries hold a very cautious and suspicious view of it. I bet during chaotic periods and time leading to it when tweet volume exploded, twitter wasn't so keen, quick or even willing to detect and shut down suspicious accounts and activities (read, CIA, NED, etc)
Hm...interesting.. why do you think this particular issue is in the long run negative outweighting the country's development benefit? Any particular supporting materials?
Look, in earlier 20th century, some regions of the US were just as dusty as those in China right now, but now once the industry upgrade is done, look what's like today?
Somehow many people in the developed countries are very indifferent if not condescending. Just for a moment think if you were Chinese, and you and your country has at least decades of development gaps behind those developed nations, what would you recommend yourself to do? By playing every and all the rules the developed nations laying down? If this situation applies in start-up companies, I simply don't think those start-up's would last for a couple months.
There are prices to pay to get high speed development. Now I'm not saying this pollution price is good or bad, I simply do know. But I do encourage people to take a less biased and privileged POV and put into others shoes before starting to lecture.
Simple-minded demonization is always an easy task. I know I'm fighting a losing battle anyway but I'll still try.
Chinese, just like any other nationals, worry about their means and standards of living. Here in the US, the exact thing happens when economy goes down, all other issues around freedom erosion, justice of waging illegal wars, etc, sink fast on people's attention list, except for some minority groups such as/.ers. That's why the Chinese government currently enjoys majority backup from the Chinese people, because it has delivered results. However, recently the majority support is eroding fast, since the economy growth sees its potential of stalling, social imbalance is growing, etc. In a short sentence, yes, the government form is different from western countries, but the goals and desires of the people over there is the same.
Now we can argue back and forth on over the long run which government form is more suitable for the long term benefit of the society. However, I see people, westerners and the orientals, are the same that they lack of long term vision. It's basically run by greedy algorithm optimized for short term gains and pay back, versus global (long term) optimization.
Though not explicitly supporting various things the government is doing, the Chinese seem to be at least fine w/ those measures, like fire wall, cracking down dissidents, etc, when it deals with so called foreign threats. The fear in the public is that if China goes through a color revolution, or a similar fall-down of the Soviet Union, the nation might just fall apart, and standards of living would backtrack significantly. National unity thus is deemed a top priority. When the global media is dominated by western voices, you can at least imagine how frustrated Chinese people and its government are.
So to recap, two things
1) stop saying Chinese government is evil, but I love Chinese people. The simple factor is the government over there is supported by the people because it delivers results and improves ther lives.
2) stop simple demonization. The people over there live a life that is different from here, but basic goals and needs are similar. As such, many of the behavior the government exhibits can be explained.
What I don't get it that so many countries have ban on Nazi content and child porn content or banning information in the name of national security, why doesn't Google quit from all those markets?
Obviously there will be trivial answers following the post saying yeah, Nazi/child porn is really bad stuff so banning it is fine. The question is then who's the moral judge.
In my view, censoring certain things by China is a result of their fear of Western countries' subversive moves. See all the color revolutions in east Europe and so many anti-government twittering and blogging in Iran, do you really think CIA and Dept. of State are not behind those materially and financially? With major news and media outlets controlled by Western ideology, they (Chinese) have no choice but being defensive. In fact, most of the Chinese people don't give a shit about Google's so called censorship reason of quitting. Choosing between a benign dictatorship that has, as a fact, helped them greatly in improvement their quality of life versus possible unstable "democracy" like Iraq or Afghan, the choice of their people is pretty obvious.
It's really about the media. That's why so many radical groups have become radical in the first place because they felt their voices not heard, their interests not honored, and their values are not respected, they felt so desparate thus resorting to desparate measures such as terrorist acts.
Mod me down but why the f*** people use this line like a fashion, huh? Stop being naive or pretending to be naive.
Government and people are one unit, God damn it! If a government is really f***'ed up, its people will rise and overthrow it; on the other hand, if nothing happens, that means the people support the government (or at least not against it to a point where uprising occurs). That simple. Don't give me the bull about brainwash, if people as a whole are so easily brainwash-able, maybe so called democracy is a big brainwash as well. ^_^
The U.S. government doing evil things in Iraq is because Bush directed it so; Bush doing evil things in Iraq is because the American people elected him and don't have the guts to pull him down, or maybe we don't think he's that bad, and killing several hundreds of thousands of Iraqis is bad so..hm...which one is it?
So at least be gutsy enough just say, "China and Chinese people, screw you", if you really believe in it.
Slashdot Mirror
If the title reads "Shanghai Government proposes 100 community DIY labs", guess it wouldn't even make to /. front page, would it? You really have to, must, can't resist to, put these politically right and sensationally arousing words together: china, hack, spy, war, thief, communist, rights, in every single f*** post about china, would you? /. editors, thought you could be better, but realize you're the same kind Christmas hating, Happy Holiday saying, China hating, freedom fighter (at long as agreeing with me) loving, terrorist (as soon as not agreeing w/ me) bashing, bunch of brainwashed sheep.
For anyone who's not an ultra nationalist and does have fully developed brain, take a look at this interview of Michael Hudson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P1fihT5B7o. It explains why our nation and our national policies against China will never work as we wish -- because if we switched roles, we wouldn't give a damn about what the idiotic US says neither.
I can buy your companies, invest in your infrastructure; but you can't -- let's play by the rules, my rules!
I can denounce your currency manipulations, passing laws to force you to appreciate Yuan, but I myself can print $$, dishing out QE1/QE2 -- let's play by the rules, my FUCKING rules!
No wondering other non-western countries hold a very cautious and suspicious view of it. I bet during chaotic periods and time leading to it when tweet volume exploded, twitter wasn't so keen, quick or even willing to detect and shut down suspicious accounts and activities (read, CIA, NED, etc)
Hm...interesting.. why do you think this particular issue is in the long run negative outweighting the country's development benefit? Any particular supporting materials?
Look, in earlier 20th century, some regions of the US were just as dusty as those in China right now, but now once the industry upgrade is done, look what's like today?
Somehow many people in the developed countries are very indifferent if not condescending. Just for a moment think if you were Chinese, and you and your country has at least decades of development gaps behind those developed nations, what would you recommend yourself to do? By playing every and all the rules the developed nations laying down? If this situation applies in start-up companies, I simply don't think those start-up's would last for a couple months.
There are prices to pay to get high speed development. Now I'm not saying this pollution price is good or bad, I simply do know. But I do encourage people to take a less biased and privileged POV and put into others shoes before starting to lecture.
J
Simple-minded demonization is always an easy task. I know I'm fighting a losing battle anyway but I'll still try.
Chinese, just like any other nationals, worry about their means and standards of living. Here in the US, the exact thing happens when economy goes down, all other issues around freedom erosion, justice of waging illegal wars, etc, sink fast on people's attention list, except for some minority groups such as /.ers. That's why the Chinese government currently enjoys majority backup from the Chinese people, because it has delivered results. However, recently the majority support is eroding fast, since the economy growth sees its potential of stalling, social imbalance is growing, etc. In a short sentence, yes, the government form is different from western countries, but the goals and desires of the people over there is the same.
Now we can argue back and forth on over the long run which government form is more suitable for the long term benefit of the society. However, I see people, westerners and the orientals, are the same that they lack of long term vision. It's basically run by greedy algorithm optimized for short term gains and pay back, versus global (long term) optimization.
Though not explicitly supporting various things the government is doing, the Chinese seem to be at least fine w/ those measures, like fire wall, cracking down dissidents, etc, when it deals with so called foreign threats. The fear in the public is that if China goes through a color revolution, or a similar fall-down of the Soviet Union, the nation might just fall apart, and standards of living would backtrack significantly. National unity thus is deemed a top priority. When the global media is dominated by western voices, you can at least imagine how frustrated Chinese people and its government are.
So to recap, two things
1) stop saying Chinese government is evil, but I love Chinese people. The simple factor is the government over there is supported by the people because it delivers results and improves ther lives.
2) stop simple demonization. The people over there live a life that is different from here, but basic goals and needs are similar. As such, many of the behavior the government exhibits can be explained.
What I don't get it that so many countries have ban on Nazi content and child porn content or banning information in the name of national security, why doesn't Google quit from all those markets? Obviously there will be trivial answers following the post saying yeah, Nazi/child porn is really bad stuff so banning it is fine. The question is then who's the moral judge. In my view, censoring certain things by China is a result of their fear of Western countries' subversive moves. See all the color revolutions in east Europe and so many anti-government twittering and blogging in Iran, do you really think CIA and Dept. of State are not behind those materially and financially? With major news and media outlets controlled by Western ideology, they (Chinese) have no choice but being defensive. In fact, most of the Chinese people don't give a shit about Google's so called censorship reason of quitting. Choosing between a benign dictatorship that has, as a fact, helped them greatly in improvement their quality of life versus possible unstable "democracy" like Iraq or Afghan, the choice of their people is pretty obvious. It's really about the media. That's why so many radical groups have become radical in the first place because they felt their voices not heard, their interests not honored, and their values are not respected, they felt so desparate thus resorting to desparate measures such as terrorist acts.
Mod me down but why the f*** people use this line like a fashion, huh? Stop being naive or pretending to be naive.
Government and people are one unit, God damn it! If a government is really f***'ed up, its people will rise and overthrow it; on the other hand, if nothing happens, that means the people support the government (or at least not against it to a point where uprising occurs). That simple. Don't give me the bull about brainwash, if people as a whole are so easily brainwash-able, maybe so called democracy is a big brainwash as well. ^_^
The U.S. government doing evil things in Iraq is because Bush directed it so; Bush doing evil things in Iraq is because the American people elected him and don't have the guts to pull him down, or maybe we don't think he's that bad, and killing several hundreds of thousands of Iraqis is bad so..hm...which one is it?
So at least be gutsy enough just say, "China and Chinese people, screw you", if you really believe in it.