Slashdot Mirror


Google Warning Gmail Users On Spying From China

Trailrunner7 writes "Google is using automated warnings to alert users of its Gmail messaging service about widespread attempts to access personal mail accounts from Internet addresses in China. The warnings may indicate wholesale spying by the Chinese government a year after the Google Aurora attacks, or simply random attacks. Victims include one leading privacy activist. Warnings appeared when users logged onto Gmail, encountering a red banner reading, 'Your account was recently accessed from China,' and providing a list of IP addresses used to access the account. Users were then encouraged to change their password immediately. Based on Twitter posts, there doesn't seem to be any pattern to the accounts that were accessed, though one target is a prominent privacy rights activist in the UK who has spoken out against the Chinese government's censorship of its citizens. A Google spokesman declined to comment on the latest warnings specifically. The company has been issuing similar warnings since March, when it introduced features to identify suspicious account activity."

215 comments

  1. China shouldn't have been allowed to join the WTO by Zelgadiss · · Score: 0, Troll

    We are now see their true colours.

    They are like evil villains you see in the movies but for real.

    We the world just made them into a very dangerous Superpower.

  2. Finally ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well at least SOMEONES doing something about this, kudos to Google for being the ones to point out to the users themselves and warn them!

  3. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate to break it to you.
    You are not the world.

  4. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And what the hell do you think the US does? We do everything that China does only because we're "the west" we aren't scared about it. See, the thing is, the US government can basically force Google to access your account. I much rather have a Chinese attack where I'm alerted about it than a US attack that happens stealthily.

    Yeah, China has human rights abuses and so does the US. There are people detained by US authorities who don't even have a fucking clue why they are detained because the US won't tell them!

    This idea that China is a super-villain and the US is a superhero is based off of myth, nationalism and ignorance, we are no better than the Chinese.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  5. Wouldn't it be nice... by BartholomewBernsteyn · · Score: 1

    Google already keeps track of all kinds of data around my Gmail account, why does it not warn me whenever *irregular* patterns of access occurred, based on implausibly localized IPs?

    Thank you for your consideration
      - You already know I love you, Google.
    Sincerely, a concerned GMail customer.

    1. Re:Wouldn't it be nice... by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      It does. That's how the people found out in the first place.

      http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?ctx=gmail&answer=45938

  6. anybody but google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sergey must be feeling lonely and left behind again, time to make some news.
    Let's just say google has not been the most reliable and trustworthy of corporate citizens lately.

    Sure China is the location of a lot of servers. To extrapolate this is the work of Chinese hackers is like blaming Cadillac for a rash of drive-by shootings.

    1. Re:anybody but google by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Google hasn't extrapolated anything. They just issued warnings about attacks coming from Chinese IPs. It was Alexander Hanff of Privacy International who said that the attacks to his account 'may' have come from the Chinese Gov.

  7. I got this by kerashi · · Score: 5, Informative

    I got the warning about being accessed from China. Unfortunately, it came 2 days after I became aware of my gmail account and World of Warcraft account both being compromised. By that time I had already changed the password, and had Blizzard restore my stuff.

    1. Re:I got this by WarlockD · · Score: 1

      I don't know what happened, but I do remember when trying to paypal something, everything was Chinese. Luckly I was running Avast's VM service and everything reset when I closed my browser. It looks like it was redirecting my dns quirys. I also got hit with the gmail red banner too, but I suspect they were only able to access it because I was going though china using the cookie. Changed all my passwords in case though:P

      I picked up a Mikrotek router for cheap and now I am blocking all of China's IP range. Bit extreame, but it is interesting looking at the the firewall hits. It seems I get quite a few hits from the uTorrent PnP tracking service from there. Also it cut down on the ssh attacks by half:P

    2. Re:I got this by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      How are you blocking all IPs from China? Is that a feature of the router?

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    3. Re:I got this by stimpleton · · Score: 1

      Ditto. For me it was Steam. 10 games in all. Either Valve is aware of this particular problem right now or this is a typical response, but the response time, efficiency and, professionalism surprised me. I did make a good ticket first off I think, but I was giving it 50/50 success at best, with no response would not have shocked me. I am glad Valve was up with the play.

      --

      In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
    4. Re:I got this by Etrigoth · · Score: 1

      I had exactly the same thing happen; the only odd thing was - I hadn't paid for my WOW account since January, then and old friend noticed that my character was logged in.

      Weird.

      --
      When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
    5. Re:I got this by RichM · · Score: 1

      I got the warning about being accessed from China. Unfortunately, it came 2 days after I became aware of my gmail account and World of Warcraft account both being compromised. By that time I had already changed the password, and had Blizzard restore my stuff.

      I had a similar experience, however the article summary is incorrect because that happened in late January so these warning have been there since before March.

    6. Re:I got this by nbetcher · · Score: 1

      Honestly I believe that this isn't from the Chinese government. I believe these attacks are to compromise World of Warcraft accounts as I had a very similar thing happen to me a couple years ago. Blizzard is cracking down more and more on spammers, botters, and gold farmers so they Chinese people are out of jobs. They're resorting to hacking systems to gain access to accounts. That's my $0.02.

    7. Re:I got this by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      Apparently the site has already been blocked by China.

    8. Re:I got this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid fucking chinks...

  8. Maybe some access controls would help by joeflies · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's see - I have never been in China and don't plan to go in the near future - maybe if Google added a feature that allows me to CONTROL what countries I can access it from, it could alleviate a lot of this problem.

    I'm sure those crafty hackers will find a way around it and divert through a US waypoint, but there's no need for my account to have broad access from countries I am never going to access it from.

    1. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They'd just go through a US proxy... That's no help at all.

    2. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not simply use a strong password? A country blacklist can really screw you over when in the far future you go somewhere and you don't remember you blocked it.

    3. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you at it, why not add time based restrictions too. Make them do their dirty work in the middle of the night through a proxy server based in the US. I'm all for making it more difficult for unauthorized users to access my accounts. Why not at least make it slightly more difficult?

    4. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      I was thinking something different:

      Even if China's government did hack my account and discover some horrible thing I did, so what? I'm 10,000 miles away and they cannot touch me. This is similar to how I laugh at New York government's attempts to tax my ebay sales..... "Okay fine I owe you about $100 for 8% tax. Now I'd like to see you try to collect it when I live 500 miles away."

      Governments are virtually powerless outside their own boundaries.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by cyfer2000 · · Score: 1

      My gmail account was compromised several weeks before the whole gmail thing made to press. I had a pretty strong password including capital letters, @# and numbers. But those bloody Chinese crackers still cracked my email account and sent out hundreds of spams. I only use OS X and Fedora, so there is little possibility of those crackers still my password via spyware. From my experience, I doubt if a strong password can protect you.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    6. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not too bright are ya?

    7. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh ... how long was it? I use 44 character passwords.
      Did you ever access gmail from mobile or other non-secure clients that didn't use SSL/TLS for everything?

    8. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US proxy, being in the US, is subject to US law enforcement. In other words google can actually DO something about the proxy, whereas it can't do anything about China. Which may then force the proxies to manage their affairs a little better ("hm, these very few IPs in China are doing an awful lot of connection attempts!")

      Further, the harder you make it for the crackers, the more China loses its "not happening here" "it's just some script kiddies, honest!" plausible deniability, which slightly increases the chances that the US government can do something about it through diplomatic/economic pressure.

    9. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by severoon · · Score: 1

      I'm sure those crafty hackers will find a way around it and divert through a US waypoint, but there's no need for my account to have broad access from countries I am never going to access it from.

      Please allow me to provide an alternative summary of your statement: Though it certainly wouldn't do any good, why not respond by stripping innocent people of freedoms they now have?

      What, sir, were you thinking when you wrote this?

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    10. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let's see - I have never been in China and don't plan to go in the near future - maybe if Google added a feature that allows me to CONTROL what countries I can access it from, it could alleviate a lot of this problem.

      I'd rather have out-of-band notifications of access - kinda like the way some banks do for their credit card accounts.
      For example - I'd like to get a text message everytime someone logs into my account and everytime some major change is made - like setting up an auto-forward or changing the password.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    11. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Governments are virtually powerless outside their own boundaries.

      I did not know that...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    12. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there's two-step verification via phone for Google Apps, coupled with the Google Authenticator app.

    13. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      "Did you ever access gmail from mobile or other non-secure clients that didn't use SSL/TLS for everything?"
      Very interesting. Think weak backends to low cpu/backhaul rustbelt mobile tech is a leak?
      If you use a strong pw, non Windows OS on a desktop with https are you safe vs some candy coloured web 2.0 mobile while on the move?
      Be a fun experiment. Set up 100 random accounts, via Mac, Windows, Linux and then mobile or other non-secure clients. Wait and bring the stats back.
      If the desktop ones are all safe, great, if win or mac or linux desktop accounts seem non-secure then what the ??????????

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    14. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      "discover some horrible thing I did, so what?"
      I think the aim is CIA/NGO/faith backed dissidents both in China and around the world.
      Any tech floating on open networks or hints to darknets, internal networks is fun too.
      Just learning how google works internally, at what point https is used, how and where.
      China does not want a digital version of Operation Shadow Circus that the CIA ran during the cold war.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    15. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      44 characters? Like what? What are you using now?

    16. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our new Chinese leaders...

    17. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by houghi · · Score: 1

      It would indeed be great to know if the US was reading my mail or not and not only China.
      Down side is that the US read it by looking at traffic, not by hacking my account. (HI MOM)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    18. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by cyfer2000 · · Score: 1

      11 characters, 44 is crazy to me.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    19. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you use any wireless access points that were out of your control? Any public terminals? Is your router firmware up-to-date? Is there an open SSH , Telnet, or HTTP server on either computer? Are you certain they're secure?

    20. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      They'd just go through a US proxy... That's no help at all.

      Do you still lock your car doors even though a window is easy to smash?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    21. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      If I turn on the option to hide AC posters, Slashdot is stripping my freedoms? Really? Or it's stripping their freedoms to throw their comments into my brain?

      I don't care if someone in China has the freedom to access my account, and I think your reading comprehension may have been on the fritz.

    22. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you still lock your car doors even though a window is easy to smash?

      Since I lost my key-fob about a year ago - the dohickey that lets me remotely lock/unlock the car doors - I haven't bothered to lock the doors once because using the key is a real PITA. So far not a problem - even with a portable GPS unit always sitting on my dash. I don't bother to lock my house doors either since anyone could break in a basement window from the backyard with zero witnesses.

    23. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 0, Troll

      11 characters, 44 is crazy to me.

      Make it a phrase, much easier to get large number of characters that way, although it does lower the entropy.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    24. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Funny because three weeks ago I had my GPS, not window-mounted mind you, walk away from my car. There's a pretty good possibility that I had left a door unlocked the night before. (The window was down enough to use a coat hanger to get in, so that's also a possibility.) I live in an area where this is rather unlikely to happen.. or at least you'd think so. Had my doors been locked and my windows been rolled up I wouldn't have lost it.

      I hope you don't learn a lesson about it, but I think you will eventually. Getting back to the point we were discussing, doing something to protect your account is better than doing nothing at all. No matter how circumventable it is, you're still adding an energy and time requirement to the process, lowering the number of people that can/will get in. I can tell you from personal experience it's extra painful to lose something of yours because you failed to take the most basic step to protect it. I feel like a total moron and every week my friends remind me to lock my car. I hope you listen to my suggestion to not be as dumb as I was. I'm actually referring to your car, Google doesn't provide controls (yet) to geo-lock my account.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    25. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      The proposed feature would be more useful if one could specify a list IP ranges (via subnet masking) from which login requests are permitted while silently blocking all of the rest. For example, all IPs not white listed in this manner should present the login screen, but fail silently with the "incorrect username or password" message, even if the correct username and password are used, so that attackers would receive no useful distinguishing information about the failed attempt. This feature would raise the bar for attackers substantially by requiring not just any US proxy, but one which happens to be located within a white listed subnet.

    26. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by severoon · · Score: 1

      Did the poster to whom I responded not say that Google should cut off his ability to access his own account when he travels to other countries, even though it wouldn't do a thing to address the problem?

      You think I have a reading comprehension problem?

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    27. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by SRabbelier · · Score: 1

      If your'e on Google Apps for your Domain (or wait a few months), you can use 2-step verification. Anyone logging in from a computer you have not previously authorized would be prompted for an one time password (which can be generated through an application on your phone, or sent as a txt-message). http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-secure-cloud-for-millions-of.html

    28. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by icebraining · · Score: 1

      HTTPS over an insecure network (wireless AP or hacked router) should still be secure. I wonder if there are fake mail.google.com certs being issued for phishing.

    29. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking he meant Google should let him choose what countries should be blocked from accessing his account.

    30. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SSL is vulnerable to a MITM, especially if you let your attention lapse (which often happens; I don't always look at the security info when I log into GMail).

    31. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by icebraining · · Score: 1

      That's not really a SSL vulnerability if you don't check if the connection is actually SSL and the right domain... SSLSTRIP doesn't really MITM SSL, just redirects to HTTP or HTTPS under other domains.

      Personally, it's hard to fool me under any of those cases; I always check for HTTPS connection, and I've removed most CA certs, so any redirection to a foreign HTTPS domain will prop a "Invalid Certificate" dialog.

    32. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

      --
      I see the fnords!
    33. Re:Maybe some access controls would help by Kvasio · · Score: 1

      If you got kidnapped by Chinese special forces and managed to escape, you would problably like to login to gmail and ask friends/embassy/whoever for help, from the account they would not classify as spam.

  9. happened to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got this warning a while ago, on a gmail account i never used to sign up for anything, and was very careful with. WTF china...also makes me mad at google for not being able to stop these attacks

  10. This has my approval by mykos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Go ahead and comply with government demands, but tell the common people what the government is doing to them. I like it.

    1. Re:This has my approval by lavagolemking · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think the article said China is hacking into users' accounts, not that Google is giving China access. They're just deploying a sort of end-user level Intrusion Detection System. They're letting users know what the government (not necessarily their government) is doing, but they're not cooperating. It's definitely a step in the right direction, although it would also be nice to add some access control as well, such as "only access from this IP address", "deny access from IP addresses in these countries", etc. even if that would only drive China to access accounts from bots in the same country. Google certainly has the resources, and in light of Chinese attacks over the past year, the motivation, to deploy a pretty secure setup that users could configure, and I can imagine a lot more features like this showing up over the next year. Question for Google: Do these warnings show up for all active sessions (including the Chinese ones), or only the session where the user appears legitimately logged in?

    2. Re:This has my approval by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My spam account got hacked from China because I have a simple password on it.

      The "Chinese Government" (since apparently only the PRC gov't can hack things in China) sent out a bunch of spoof mails to WOW users from my account asking for password information. I guess the communist party is addicted to MMO there?

    3. Re:This has my approval by baddybian · · Score: 1

      i think the gov did nothing but earn money

    4. Re:This has my approval by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What blows my mind is that Gmail can't possibly be the only service whose users are being targeted by the Chinese government. Think of how often this is happening via services like Yahoo, Hotmail, or Facebook that don't bother watching for this type of thing.

  11. What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yea, except when China detains you they throw you in the Laogai (Chinese gulag - forced labor prison) and harvests your organs to sell to rich westerners whose children are dying of non-functioning organs for which there is normally a giant waiting list.

    And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."

    When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.

    I hate to admit it, but I still love buying cheap crap from them, though.

    I'm sort of afraid to post this comment now. *breathes deeply and pressing the submit button*

    1. Re:What reality do you live in? by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Informative
      And the US has Guantanamo bay and other "terrorist" prisons where we can essentially do the same thing because there is no oversight.

      Plus, we've got military instillation all over the world also operating with virtually zero oversight.

      We've given money to support various military dictatorships, tried taking over numerous sovereign countries, etc. While we don't do many atrocities to people here at home, the "third world" is open game.

      When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.

      Only because there was a lot of press about it. Had this person been relatively unknown, he just would have been denied his rights or charged him with some "terrible" crime that no one would want to associate with him anymore.

      Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse, but that doesn't mean shit when it comes to congress or our operations outside of the US. We've passed laws blatantly ignoring the constitution (PATRIOT act, DMCA, etc.), debased our currency to worthlessness, gunned down civilians abroad, and propped up dictatorships.

      The only significant difference between China and the US is that China does atrocities from within their borders and doesn't maintain an illusion of freedom. The US does atrocities from outside their borders and tries to portray that they are concerned about liberty.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:What reality do you live in? by meerling · · Score: 0, Troll

      At least the US hasn't ran over it's own students with tanks yet.

    3. Re:What reality do you live in? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."

      You have exactly the same mentality as the western media, that is to over simplifiy things in China and portray them in a stereotype as irrational lunatic. Believe it or not, some people do the same to the west.

      Take the latest political opponent, Liu Xiaobo, as an example. From western media it looked like he was sent to jail for nothing serious. It turned out he was circulating a letter for signatures, calling for the establishment of a new country with a new name. That is a crime by Chinese law. Now I am not defending Chinese law here but I just wanted to point out things are more complicated than you think, including the "cheap crap" you love to hate.

    4. Re:What reality do you live in? by lul_wat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, shooting them with rifles is so much more civil.

      --
      Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
    5. Re:What reality do you live in? by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...Yet is the key point.

      The US might have not ran over any of its own college students with a tank, but in the third world during the cold war it funded dictatorships that suppressed dissent and killed dissenters.

      Why is it that it is considered terrible that China would kill its own citizens but yet it apparently is a "troll" to point out that the US does it to citizens of other countries?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    6. Re:What reality do you live in? by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Link for further info?

      Even if EXACTLY what you claim is true and even if it's not just propaganda created by the Chinese Government, you think a decade of imprisonment is fair punishment?

    7. Re:What reality do you live in? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      Uh...

      The guy who was hit by the tank chose to stand in front of it. The students who were shot were unarmed protesters and bystanders.

      The US is rapidly losing what little so-called "moral high ground" it has left.

    8. Re:What reality do you live in? by Jurily · · Score: 1

      debased our currency to worthlessness,

      No, you did that to the whole world. Somehow, I don't think Nixon will be remembered for Watergate in 50 years.

    9. Re:What reality do you live in? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 3, Interesting

      China does atrocities from within their borders and doesn't maintain an illusion of freedom.

      It depends on what kind of atrocities and freedom. If you are talking about violent crimes, living in China is generally much safer than in US. And Chinese law is sometimes intentionally ambiguous and if you are clever enough you'll have more freedom than you want.

      The actual significant difference between China and the US, is Chinese officials are not elected. So the whole political games change.

    10. Re:What reality do you live in? by andymadigan · · Score: 1

      Your talking about U.S. citizens. If you're foreign and the U.S. doesn't like you we lock you up in a secret prison and you're never heard from again. The E.U. recently found a few of our secret prisons and got pissed, so we had to move them.

      Back to the article, there isn't any pattern, my account got hacked too (my facebook account got hacked at the same time, but that was from an IP in South Korea).

      Google (and others) should add a feature to allow me to restrict the IPs that can access my account. I'm never planning on logging in from anywhere in Asia, Africa or South America. If I ever did go to one of those places I could always change the setting. Two-factor authentication will probably be better though.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    11. Re:What reality do you live in? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      I found that info in Chinese. He wanted to create some kind of federation between mainland China and Taiwan. This view is actually quite popular among some circles but the people in power definitely would want none of that. And personally I do think a revolution might make thing worse and reform is preferred.

      As to a fair punishment, I'd think people should have freedom of speech without punishment. But I am not an expert in law. I do remember in the movie Red, someone was asking something like "Are you agree with overthrowing the United States government". So it'd be interesting to know the limit of free speech in extreme cases.

    12. Re:What reality do you live in? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2, Informative

      "And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty.""

      Same story in the US. No "enemy combatants" are given a fair trial. They're also tortured, or thrown into a prison and humiliated sexually. (i.e. abu ghraib)

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    13. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US government didn't endorse the shootings at Kent State.

    14. Re:What reality do you live in? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Of course they didn't endorse them, they actually shot the students! Unless for some reason the National Guard isn't part of the US government anymore...

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    15. Re:What reality do you live in? by Moridineas · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the United States it is illegal to plan to (or attempt to) overthrow the government by force or with violence.

      Passing around a petition saying "I support breaking up the United States" is not a crime. Running for congress and saying "I would vote to breakup the United States" is not a crime. Attacking with force Fort Sumter -- crime! It's not perfect, I'd probably like more anti-government actions to be completely protected, but it is what it is.

      Bottom line is the the Chinese party line on basic freedoms (like freedom of speech) and the typical American or European view on such things are worlds apart different. Some people like to put these down to thousands of years of history with such theories as Wittfogel's hydrolic Empires -- "Orientals like rules because they are used to them from thousands of years of absolute rule from above." I don't buy that. American and European views on freedom of speech are very different too. Witness the Brits who are in trouble for burning Qur'ans, the illegality of certain types of clothing in France and Germany, religious freedom differences, great differences on offensive speech, etc.

      One thing that North American and Europeans are almost united on though is that political dissenters should be allowed and protected. Doesn't mean dissenters always get an easy or free ride, but the Chinese model is very abhorrent to many.

    16. Re:What reality do you live in? by countertrolling · · Score: 2

      It is a state militia. In that case called in by the governor, not the president. The feds "endorsed" it by not pressing charges

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    17. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prisons hold people after they've been sentenced or so they can be tried.

      What you're talking about is not a prison but a concentration camp.

    18. Re:What reality do you live in? by Raenex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy who was hit by the tank chose to stand in front of it. The students who were shot were unarmed protesters and bystanders.

      Tank Man was not run over. He stopped a column of tanks. The soldier in that tank did not want to run over a civilian in cold blood.

      The difference between China and the United States is that in China you can't search for Tiananmen Square and find out about the 1989 protest. You won't find a popular song about it. The Kent State shootings are an acknowledged black mark in United States history.

    19. Re:What reality do you live in? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      Passing around a petition saying "I support breaking up the United States"

      No, he appeared to the organizer and it seems from Wikipedia they were also writing Charters and compared themselves to other movements in Chinese history.

      I think I know the difference you are talking about, but I also know the political reality of China, especially from a historical perspective. China didn't have a good model of its own, that why it adopted communism. And that didn't work out well. So it quickly switch to capitalism. Do you know who seemed to admire the founding fathers of the USA the most just before the breakout of the Chinese civil war in the 1940s? Judging from the writings of that time, it appears to be the communist leader Mao Zedong, who seemed understand democracy better than anybody else. At the time, he was the dissenter and he knew how to play the game.

      Now the communists are in power and they are extremely wary about anybody else play the same game against them. The communist party itself actually wanted to introduce more liberal values, but they are afraid of their opponents taking advantage of it and losing their power.

      So the basic problem in China is how to be more transparent. And dramatic moves would actually make things worse. I am actually quite suspicious of western media in this matter because they always portray Chinese officials as whimsical as putting people to jail for no reason at all. This actually makes reform harder. Maybe that's the goal.

    20. Re:What reality do you live in? by shadowofwind · · Score: 1

      Why is it that it is considered terrible that China would kill its own citizens but yet it apparently is a "troll" to point out that the US does it to citizens of other countries?

      Its because people don't care about people in other countries, they think of themselves. And they hate to admit the wrong in their own conduct.

      Ironically, the many chinese people I've known, while good intelligent people in other regards, seem to be remarkably bad at accepting criticism of Chinese actions, such as in relation to Tibet or the south china sea. I think that a significant reason China has been relatively benign internationally is they are cognizant of their internal challenges and weaknesses. If they were as powerful as the US, things would be different.

      That said, I think its right to criticize American wrongs, so I don't really have a beef with your post. Morality isn't a competition. As an American, I want it to be faced honestly, and there's a lot of room for improvement.

    21. Re:What reality do you live in? by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      No, he appeared to the organizer and it seems from Wikipedia they were also writing Charters and compared themselves to other movements in Chinese history.

      But the point is, the very worst thing you've accused this man of doing is passing around some letters, suggesting the government of China should change/enter a federation with Taiwan, and "being an organizer." No mention of violence. No mention of force. No mention of civil disobedience. Etc.

      To your average European or North American, being jailed for over a decade for such things is really quite shocking!

      Now the communists are in power and they are extremely wary about anybody else play the same game against them. The communist party itself actually wanted to introduce more liberal values, but they are afraid of their opponents taking advantage of it and losing their power.

      Agreed. This is very much the problem with such systems of government. This is EXACTLY what F.A. Hayek describes in his book "The Road to Serfdom."

      So the basic problem in China is how to be more transparent. And dramatic moves would actually make things worse. I am actually quite suspicious of western media in this matter because they always portray Chinese officials as whimsical as putting people to jail for no reason at all. This actually makes reform harder. Maybe that's the goal.

      I disagree. The basic question is not "how to be more transparent" the basic question is "should Chinese society be more free?"

      I am suspicious of news media too. I don't trust them all! The good thing about a free and open society is you don't hAVE to rely one on source of information. You don't have to rely on what the government says, or what the NY Times says, or what Xinhua says, etc. Bloggers, independents, newspapers, tv, government can all voice their opinions without fear of imprisonment.

      Thank you for your point of view, I appreciate your comments very much.

    22. Re:What reality do you live in? by X.25 · · Score: 1

      Yea, except when China detains you they throw you in the Laogai (Chinese gulag - forced labor prison) and harvests your organs to sell to rich westerners whose children are dying of non-functioning organs for which there is normally a giant waiting list.

      And, keep in mind, China does that if you are nothing more than a political opponent, dissenter, or critic. Your fair trial consists of, "You are guilty."

      When the U.S. (wrongly) detained the friend of Assange, leader of WikiLeaks, earlier this year they had to let him go. Our laws have been designed to protect human rights from abuse by even our own government. You can't say the same thing about the Chinese.

      I hate to admit it, but I still love buying cheap crap from them, though.

      I'm sort of afraid to post this comment now. *breathes deeply and pressing the submit button*

      Your country has been kidnapping people around the world, and organized torture (and since it didn't happen in the US, it's okay, right)?

      You're no different than China. I don't like either of you.

    23. Re:What reality do you live in? by oiron · · Score: 1

      You have exactly the same mentality as the western media, that is to over simplifiy things in China and portray them in a stereotype as irrational lunatic. Believe it or not, some people do the same to the west.

      Irrational lunatic? Not really. Power-hungry authoritarianism? Possibly...

      Take the latest political opponent, Liu Xiaobo, as an example. From western media it looked like he was sent to jail for nothing serious. It turned out he was circulating a letter for signatures, calling for the establishment of a new country with a new name. That is a crime by Chinese law. Now I am not defending Chinese law here but I just wanted to point out things are more complicated than you think, including the "cheap crap" you love to hate.

      If you mean the Charter 08, it may be a "crime" by Chinese law, but that's the whole point: Is the Chinese government stable enough to allow its own citizens to debate and discuss the state of their country openly? Is it mature enough to allow criticism of itself and its activities? To allow public consultations of its policies? In a nutshell, will they allow the people whom they claim to represent, discuss their own performance?

      Say what you will about western democracy, the critical founding principle there is that the state is always subordinate to the people. There is always freedom to criticize the government, freedom to elect another in its place. Point to Guantanamo all you want, but the fact is, you don't get sent there for merely criticizing the government and asking for change. If you did, all liberals would have been incarcerated in the last administration, and the entire tea party in this one.

      It's the same, wherever there's real free speech and democracy. In Europe, you still have people criticizing Sarkozy and Berlusconi, Blair, Brown and others - they may or may not be effective, but they aren't imprisoned for it. In India, we can still assemble and protest, and we can still hold the government responsible.

      I'm not seeing that in China in any way. Under the current setup, it's impossible for the people to hold the government accountable in any way - there's never any public debate, or if there is, the rest of the world never gets to hear about it. There just seems to be an endless line of posturing politician-bureaucrats, fighting among themselves, with the entire population as pawns.

    24. Re:What reality do you live in? by oiron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And Chinese law is sometimes intentionally ambiguous and if you are clever enough you'll have more freedom than you want.

      Just so long as you don't criticize anyone in power.

    25. Re:What reality do you live in? by oiron · · Score: 1

      Your country has been kidnapping people around the world, and organized torture (and since it didn't happen in the US, it's okay, right)?

      You're no different than China. I don't like either of you.

      Except, that with the US, the vast majority of trials have been open, and relatively free and fair. You don't have people held incommunicado for trying to exercise their right to free speech.

    26. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another difference is that in the US there's a reasonable chance the tank driver would have gone over the top of him

    27. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      And the US has Guantanamo bay and other "terrorist" prisons where we can essentially do the same thing because there is no oversight.

      What the hell? Those aren't American citizens who were being politically dissident. We're not executing them and selling their organs. Give me a break. You put the word terrorist in quotation marks as if the people there weren't captured in battle over in the Middle East. Because of our free press and critical watchdog groups, our prisons are probably the most monitored in the world.

      The only significant difference between China and the US is that China does atrocities from within their borders and doesn't maintain an illusion of freedom. The US does atrocities from outside their borders and tries to portray that they are concerned about liberty.

      This is just more goofy anti-American crap and makes you sound like a dorm room kid with a typically contrarian worldview who thinks he's being rebellious, maaaaan. You don't cite any examples of these atrocities. Comparing us to a country who doesn't elect its leaders, restricts the internet, and bans political dissidence is stupid and absurd.

      The worst part is that you don't even realize that the very fact you can post what you did makes America very, very different from China.

    28. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      Sure would like to know about these students we've shot with rifles.

    29. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...Yet is the key point.

      No, it's a stupid point. Nobody in America is going to be driving over college students with tanks. You're taking the extreme, anti-American position because you think it makes you more insightful and intellectual while ignoring the fact that your ability to even post criticism of your country in the first place is proof that America is completely different from China.

      Why is it that it is considered terrible that China would kill its own citizens but yet it apparently is a "troll" to point out that the US does it to citizens of other countries?

      Because you claimed America is putting people into forced labor prisons and selling their organs, and you didn't cite a single example for any of your claims. You also completely gloss over the actions and motivations during the Cold War. It's just the same, generic anti-American drivel you can find on someone's LiveJournal above anarchist gifs and Hugo Chavez quotes.

    30. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      1.) That was an isolated incident 40 fucking years ago. America isn't routinely silencing dissenters. We have the biggest number of whining, complaining people in the world.

      2.) The media covered the incident and provided photographs, and protests occurred around the country. There was no coverup.

      3.) The national guardsman were indicted by a grand jury. America punished them for their actions and made sure it wouldn't happen again..

      All of these things are completely different from China. Your comment about moral high ground is stupid, as is your improper use of quotation marks.

    31. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      Of course they didn't endorse them, they actually shot the students! Unless for some reason the National Guard isn't part of the US government anymore...

      Your entire argument is based on an isolated incident 40 years ago that the media covered extensively, people protested across the nation, and you're still able to discuss to this day. How is it like China again?

    32. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      The difference between China and the United States is that in China you can't search for Tiananmen Square and find out about the 1989 protest. You won't find a popular song about it. The Kent State shootings are an acknowledged black mark in United States history.

      There are people who have legitimate criticisms of America and people who are critical of America in order to feel smart. The latter will completely ignore your point. The very fact that they're even able to voice criticism of America, in contrast to China, completely escapes them.

    33. Re:What reality do you live in? by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

      If you mean the Charter 08 [wikipedia.org]

      I don't understand why they wrote these to call out the government. As I said in other threads, the Chinese government has actually considered introducing more liberal values but this kind of dramatic moves actually makes it look like they might be doing it because they were told to do so.

    34. Re:What reality do you live in? by bonch · · Score: 1

      Take the latest political opponent, Liu Xiaobo, as an example. From western media it looked like he was sent to jail for nothing serious.

      Oh, so he did do something serious? I can't wait for you to tell me!

      It turned out he was circulating a letter for signatures, calling for the establishment of a new country with a new name. That is a crime by Chinese law. Now I am not defending Chinese law here but I just wanted to point out things are more complicated than you think, including the "cheap crap" you love to hate.

      Uh, I'm still waiting for the serious part.

    35. Re:What reality do you live in? by vistapwns · · Score: 1

      He's talking about Kent State, which happened like 40 years ago, and resulted in a hand full of students dying. The chinese on the other hand have been estimated by Human Rights orginizations to have killed 80+ MILLION of their citizens since the communists took over in the '40s. Of course, now we have to do the paleo-political thing where we discuss indians and black slaves, but the perpetrators of those crimes are dead and so are all their grand children, versus the communist murdering pigs still living the good life in China today.

      --
      "...I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease." - Linus Torvalds
    36. Re:What reality do you live in? by Langfat · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_state_massacre
      I believe that's what the poster is referring to....

    37. Re:What reality do you live in? by gilgongo · · Score: 1

      The US might have not ran over any of its own college students with a tank,

      Indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    38. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And neither has China. The tank stopped in front of "Tank Man" if you recall.

    39. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the US doesn't run over students with tanks like China...

      It just shoots them with rifles, etc. Kent State, for example:

      http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/lewihen.htm

    40. Re:What reality do you live in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because, fuck you, the US isn't anywhere close to the same level you fucking idiot. 30 million dead Chinese does not compare to your petty gripes about US policy that, honestly, saved your ass from Soviet domination during those years we were supposedly "funding dictatorships". Read a fucking book you moron.

    41. Re:What reality do you live in? by moortak · · Score: 1

      And where is this mythical place you live where there have been no deviations from the ideas of universal freedom and human dignity. The US is flawed deeply and in ways that have to change, but in comparison to China it is the beacon of freedom that people would like to pretend it always is.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    42. Re:What reality do you live in? by pighead77 · · Score: 1

      Simple-minded demonization is always an easy task. I know I'm fighting a losing battle anyway but I'll still try.

      Chinese, just like any other nationals, worry about their means and standards of living. Here in the US, the exact thing happens when economy goes down, all other issues around freedom erosion, justice of waging illegal wars, etc, sink fast on people's attention list, except for some minority groups such as /.ers. That's why the Chinese government currently enjoys majority backup from the Chinese people, because it has delivered results. However, recently the majority support is eroding fast, since the economy growth sees its potential of stalling, social imbalance is growing, etc. In a short sentence, yes, the government form is different from western countries, but the goals and desires of the people over there is the same.

      Now we can argue back and forth on over the long run which government form is more suitable for the long term benefit of the society. However, I see people, westerners and the orientals, are the same that they lack of long term vision. It's basically run by greedy algorithm optimized for short term gains and pay back, versus global (long term) optimization.

      Though not explicitly supporting various things the government is doing, the Chinese seem to be at least fine w/ those measures, like fire wall, cracking down dissidents, etc, when it deals with so called foreign threats. The fear in the public is that if China goes through a color revolution, or a similar fall-down of the Soviet Union, the nation might just fall apart, and standards of living would backtrack significantly. National unity thus is deemed a top priority. When the global media is dominated by western voices, you can at least imagine how frustrated Chinese people and its government are.

      So to recap, two things

      1) stop saying Chinese government is evil, but I love Chinese people. The simple factor is the government over there is supported by the people because it delivers results and improves ther lives.

      2) stop simple demonization. The people over there live a life that is different from here, but basic goals and needs are similar. As such, many of the behavior the government exhibits can be explained.

    43. Re:What reality do you live in? by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      You're taking the extreme, anti-American position because you think it makes you more insightful and intellectual while ignoring the fact that your ability to even post criticism of your country in the first place is proof that America is completely different from China.

      Yeah, man get after that intellectual prick.
      Nothing like that would happen in the US.
      As long as you exclude Kent State and some of those anti-americans marching for civil rights.

    44. Re:What reality do you live in? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      Kent State University, nuff said

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  12. Well-known privacy activist by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

    I guess they're not very successful at it.

    --
    I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    1. Re:Well-known privacy activist by Rogerborg · · Score: 1, Funny

      He should get together with Julian "nobody but me deserves to have secrets" Assange, and together they could try to make two useful people, or failing that, a crate of Soylent Green.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:Well-known privacy activist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I am the person in question.

      The matter came up casually after I had given the journalist an interview with regards to EverCookie - an issue I am currently dealing with in my work having involved a US Lawyer and filed an Open Letter with the European Commission in relation to how this particular API counters claims in Recital 66 of the Telecoms Reform Package that browsers should be seen as an acceptable form of control and consent with regards to the use of Internet tracking technologies. I work very hard, 16-20 hours a day, fighting on many fronts to protect fundamental liberties such as privacy and human rights. I do this because I believe it is important work, I don't get paid for it; so I find your comment particularly offensive and the response below from Rogerborg.

      After I gave the interview the journalist asked my opinion on why Google had redacted details about China in their recently launched Transparency resource. Having followed the situation between Google and China (as part of my job) I offered the suggestion that even though Google's excuse that China requested the data be excluded on the grounds of national security made no sense it could just be a case that the relationship between Google and China is currently under stress given the allegations by Google earlier this year that China had hacked their core systems. As often happens when one is engaging freely with others I went on to mention that Google had recently started notifying users that their GMail account had been accessed from a Chinese IP when asked how I knew about that I explained I had received such notification earlier that day.

      The point of the article which was then published was to raise awareness of these issues as I am sure anyone will agree that to compromise private communications is a serious issue. In my case the email address was very old (over 5 years old) and was setup specifically to deal with enquiries relating to an MPAA case against me. It is accessed infrequently purely to check if anyone is trying to contact me. I do a great deal of work with the press/media as well and receiving complaints from the public about privacy issues and as that email account is associated with my real name online (from when it was initially setup) it is important I check it every now again. It is currently not used for any other purpose.

      I get quite angry when I see people on forums or comment systems who criticise advocates they know nothing about nor their motives. We work very hard and many of us for free with no personal agenda or benefits - we give up our lives defending the liberties you rely on in yours. More often than not these same critics have never lifted a finger nor spent any of their time engaging in such work, so they are not really in a position to criticise those of us who do.

      That is OK though, we don't do the work for thanks or compliments, we do it for the benefit of society and future generations - but it would be nice if critics would actually base their discourse on some evidentiary basis instead of just opening their mouths without considering how their words might impact those of us doing this important work. I am pretty sure if your Human Rights were compromised in a way which caused you significant distress or damage you would expect someone to fight your corner for you and provide you with resources and support to overcome the issue - perhaps you should consider this before being so quick to criticise in the future.

    3. Re:Well-known privacy activist by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      It was a joke, maybe one that misfired. If you really are the person in question, I'd like to say "thank you" for your efforts.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
  13. Happened to me... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

    A couple months ago, out of the blue. I changed my password of course

    1. Re:Happened to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same thing here. I'm assuming it was a random attack, since I have no Chinese connection (Never been there, don't know anyone there, not a vocal enemy of China, etc).

  14. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    And you talk just like the stupid people in the movies: We are good and they are evil.

  15. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    relativistic assessments such as the parents are merely intellectual laziness and false humility.

  16. Insensitive Clods by srussia · · Score: 4, Funny

    I use a Chinese proxy server!

    --
    Set your phasers on "funky"!
    1. Re:Insensitive Clods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes!, to be able to access free downloadable music from Google!
      http://www.google.cn/music/

    2. Re:Insensitive Clods by SpzToid · · Score: 1

      mod this AC up!

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
  17. Solved problem? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1
    --
    Palm trees and 8
  18. Another statistic here.... by macraig · · Score: 1

    I was one such victim, but for me the hijacking occurred about two months ago. Lucky for me it wasn't used to send millions of malware-laden spam messages; only several dozen messages were sent (all in Chinese), and it didn't look like any attempt was made to filch information from my archives. Google did warn me at the time, and there have been no obvious consequences since I regained control of the account.

    1. Re:Another statistic here.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it didn't look like any attempt was made to filch information from my archives.

      How do you know?

    2. Re:Another statistic here.... by macraig · · Score: 1

      There hasn't been a cascade of breaches in other online accounts, that's how I "know".

  19. Hypocrites by guspasho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not worried about China, I'm worried about my own government spying on me with Google's cooperation.

    1. Re:Hypocrites by onefriedrice · · Score: 1

      Oh don't point out that that could happen, otherwise you get modded as a troll.

      Wrong. On the contrary, anti-U.S. government comments usually get some level of Insightful, and this time is no exception.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    2. Re:Hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that Google is the only one actually willing to fight for you against the government, right?

    3. Re:Hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but which one is your government? You know - there is no flag near your nickname on /.

    4. Re:Hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, then you sir are just and idiot.

  20. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Chaosrains · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yeah, China has human rights abuses and so does the US. There are people detained by US authorities who don't even have a fucking clue why they are detained because the US won't tell them!

    Please point to a case where this has happened in modern US history, as this is a very clear violation of our sixth amendment in the Bill of Rights.

  21. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by poity · · Score: 1
    Why is it when the US is criticized, responses in the vein of "other countries do it too" is unacceptable and often labeled troll, yet when a different country is under the radar, responses in the vein of "the US does it too" is the first and greatest comeback, and in this case labeled "Insightful"?

    This idea that China is a super-villain and the US is a superhero is based off of myth, nationalism and ignorance, we are no better than the Chinese.

    May I suggest that this belief that there are significant people who believe in your hyperbolized dichotomy is also a myth. I'm confident the majority of people in the US see it as a flawed country but on the whole comparatively better than most.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  22. People in glass houses by Darkman,+Walkin+Dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Parsing your data for profit, et cetera...

    Or is that okay in free market halfassery?

  23. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Zelgadiss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not American or even European btw.

    Given the recent situation with Japan, I don't know how else to see China.
    Vietnam have been complaining about China's bully tactics for a while now, it's just that no one paid attention.

    China has been gaining a lot of power, the US might not even be able to restraint them any more.
    Frankly it scares me.

    I hate to say this but the moron Bush might actually be right, China has to be contained.
    If I could turn back time and somehow stop China from joining the WTO I would.

    As for the US, the things you guys do in the middle east is one hell of a clusterfuck.

    But I don't know.
    I think would rather live under the thumb of the US government than the PRC.

    From my point of view, maybe it's because I'm from a country friendly towards the US, US in general have been relatively benevolent "rulers" in comparison to what China could be capable of.

  24. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    I agree. If your dad is an abusive jerk, you don't deserve to be protected from other abusive jerks. They're no worse than what you get at home, so what are you bitching about?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  25. Spams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been receiving a lot of spam from some chinese servers for the last 3 weeks. I don't remember giving my email to anyone but collegues, is this related?

  26. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    I'm not seeing the bit where GP said that "we" were good, just that "they" are bad. Can you clarify?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  27. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Are you that blind that you haven't heard of Gitmo? http://civilliberty.about.com/od/lawenforcementterrorism/tp/Boumediene-v-Bush.htm Yeah, the supreme court struck it down fairly quickly but note that a single vote in the opposite direction would have kept it.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  28. No apparent pattern. by meerling · · Score: 1

    Maybe because they added a lot of random targets to disguise the real target(s). I'd definitely do more than 100 distractions attacks per real attack just to confuse my opponents.

  29. Unplug China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we even need them on the internet?

  30. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Informative

    Uh, you know those "foreign combatants" kept in dog kennels in Guantanamo Bay, and not charged because we don't even know why we captured them in the first place? Those guys? According to those filthy liberal peacenik commies in the Supreme Court, apparently they're actually "people"!

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  31. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

    ...Because your dad who is an abusive jerk making an organization to prevent child abuse wouldn't be hypocritical in the least. And then him being lauded for being a great dad despite the fact he is still an abusive jerk, wouldn't come up as slightly hypocritical to you?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  32. Sum-yung-gai by oldhack · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not my cup of tee. General's chicken needs more garlic.

    Send more dandan noodle.

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  33. G should support FireGPG-like product by astrashe · · Score: 1

    There's a really easy way google can mitigate a lot of these problems. They could cooperate a little bit with someone who wants to make a firefox plugin that would encrypt people's email.

    I know that goes against their business model, which lets them use people's emails to tailor search results and target ads. And it would probably piss off a number of governments. But in reality, almost no one would actually take the trouble to encrypt their mail, and it would allow people who really needed the privacy to take care of themselves.

    It's such an easy, simple solution. I wish they'd consider it.

    1. Re:G should support FireGPG-like product by andymadigan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I fail to see how this would help at all. Part of the problem with someone gaining access to your e-mail account is that it can be used to gain access to all of your accounts. The other problem is that it can be used to send spam/viruses. Neither of those would be fixed by encryption. If you want encrypted e-mail, use servers under your control.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    2. Re:G should support FireGPG-like product by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      Ehm, no, you use encryption because email servers are not under your control. Google reads your email, and apparently so do the Chinese. Encryption makes that email just a blob of binary.

      Spam being send from your account is unfortunate, but not really your problem. You did tell all your important contacts to only open emails with a proper PGP signature, so said spam will just be junked.

      And since all your important email is encrypted, your passwords are safe. Well, since the Chinese got access to your account your passwords are probably already out there, but them accessing your account won't make that problem worse...

    3. Re:G should support FireGPG-like product by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      > And since all your important email is encrypted, your passwords are safe

      So, let me get this straight -- your proposal to fix this is to get every service on the internet that has a password-recovery button to encrypt the e-mail with GPG before sending it to gmail?

      The likelihood of achieving that is about 1 over infinity.

      Then, nevermind that you can't really deploy this type of solution as a webmail offering without either a browser plug-in or giving google your private key. So your solution also involves creating a browser plug-in for every browser on the market that people need to install before using Gmail.

      Golly. It would probably be easier to just re-invent email.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    4. Re:G should support FireGPG-like product by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't be using webmail for anything that requires security in the first place. So if you insist on using Gmail for that, use imap. That makes using encryption a lot easier, no need to develop anything new, just use the current tools.

  34. How many non-CN gmail users ever use Gmail in CN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't ever expect to use my Gmail from China.

    I very rarely use my Gmail from anywhere outside the US.

    I'd like to block ALL COUNTRIES from my Gmail, except the US. Then when I travel, I can add the country I am going to visit - for as long as I'm there.

    Ideally, this function could tie in to my World Mate app on the BlackBerry - it knows when I am out of the country or not.

  35. It's their own fault by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    When those anti-government activists use easy-to-guess passwords like "FreeTibet" and "FalunGong4evah", of course their Google accounts are going to get hacked...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:It's their own fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The password on the account was a 9 character random and mixed case alphanumeric string which would have required brute forcing and would not be vulnerable to a dictionary attack.

  36. You like many are confused by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    Specifically you are confusing privacy and anonymity. Many geeks seem to think the right to privacy is the same as the right to remain anonymous and they aren't at all. The government has rules that there is a right to privacy implied in the Constitution, but they have never ruled there is a right to anonymity best that I know.

    So what's the difference? Privacy means being able to shield what you are doing from others, if you choose. I currently have complete privacy. I am alone, in my home. That means what I am doing is not something anyone can find out, unless I let them. My actions and thoughts are as private as I wish them to be. However I'm not anonymous. Anyone who did even cursory (and fully legal) surveillance could determine what house is mine and that I am presently at home. I am in no way anonymous in my actions, just private.

    The flipside of that would be a couple having sex in a park, wearing full face masks. They would have no privacy, but would have anonymity. There would be no doubt in anyone's mind what was going on if they looked over. However as to who was doing it, well that would be a mystery. The people doing it would be anonymous, but not private.

    Of course you can easily find other situations that you have both or neither.

    So as it applies to these activists that they are known doesn't mean they aren't successful at being private. They aren't anonymity activists, they are privacy activists. They advocate that you should be able to do things and not have the government (or others) spy on you. they are not advocating you should be unknown, a cipher to all.

  37. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    Sure. I said GP talked like something, but I didn't say what you said I did. Is that clear enough for you?

  38. WoW Account phishing by Fippy+Darkpaw · · Score: 1

    About 50% of the spam I get is WoW and other MMOG account phishing. Apparently lots of people use the same WoW account pw as for their gmail account since you see "i got hacked" posts in the forums every day. Blizzard then made the brilliant move of making your WoW account username your email address.

  39. Facebook does the same by alex67500 · · Score: 1

    There's a Facebook option whereby you get an email sent to you when someone accesses your account on a PC that hasn't been used for that before. I thought it was cool also.

    But GMail has had the "active sessions" and "last activity on this account" options for a while, so I guess it's only working on a behaviour pattern and warning people when that pattern changes.

  40. Pretty Good Privacy? by janwedekind · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are GPG plugins for most e-mail clients. E.g. there's Enigmail for Thunderbird. People just need to use them.

    1. Re:Pretty Good Privacy? by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Let me know when their use is simple enough for 95% of the populace to handle, and when Webmail access that is independent of the browser/computer they are using and isn't implemented at the ISP level is possible.

      It's not so simple and clean-cut as you make it sound. If it's an extreme hassle to remain secure and/or private then most people won't bother until it becomes easier. And even then you have to get them to care without sounding paranoid.

    2. Re:Pretty Good Privacy? by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      The problem is that both sides need to care. The receiver needs to offer encryption and the sender needs to use it (and the other way around for electronic signatures). And I don't think offering GPG with Webmail is acceptable. If you have to let GMail handle your GPG keys it defeats the whole purpose.

      I agree that most people don't care. Sometimes it helps to send e-mails with faked From-headers to GMail users to make them aware how much they trust e-mail communication.

  41. Um: “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming,& by KMSelf · · Score: 1

    Four dead in Ohio. There's also the Civil Rights marches of the 1960s, the labor movement, the Trail of Tears, and a few other odd highlights. I'd suggest picking up a copy of Lies My Teacher Told Me or Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.

    --

    What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?

  42. Security is a game of percentages by KMSelf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Going through a proxy (crowded, busy, high traffic, concentrated) makes hack attacks that much more difficult. From the defense standpoint, proxies may be known (lists of know proxies are widely available), detectable (reverse operations), or identifiable via patterns (large volumes of traffic or attack from a single or narrow IP band not otherwise known).

    You do highlight the point, however, that patterns of behavior are what are critical. You want to see who's coming in, from what IP ranges, whether or not they're suddendly having a great deal of trouble with their passwords, etc.

    I've had more than a little success identifying sources of abuse via CIDR block or ASN using the Routeviews reverse IP-to-BGP Router Data lookup (the txt record is the CIDR block and ASN of an IP). Not just in spam, as indicated in the linked paper, but for apache logs, aggregating ranges of IPs to a single identifiable source.

    Sure, someone using a widely distributed botnet across multiple ASNs isn't going to turn up in that analysis (or rather, it will be more weakly distributed), but in that case, you're going to want to find other patterns of behavior to track.

    --

    What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?

  43. Leveraging information by KMSelf · · Score: 1

    XKCD puts it well: http://xkcd.com/792/

    How often do you reuse passwords?

    What financial or other control information transits your email account?

    What blackmail or other information could be gained via your email account(s)?

    I've utilized this myself in legal cases for fun and profit (lawful access to data, natch).

    --

    What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?

  44. hmmm... by meeotch · · Score: 1

    a red banner reading 'Your account was recently accessed from China,'

    I wonder if that's at all irritating to users living in places like, you know - China.

    1. Re:hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      irritating? Gmail users are immune to that.

    2. Re:hmmm... by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      It looks for abnormal activity. If you register in China and use it from China, the warning probably reads 'Your account was recently accessed from the USA'

    3. Re:hmmm... by Amlothi · · Score: 1

      I registered my account in the US. Used it there for years. Move to China. Use it every day here. Never got a warning message.

      --
      ~A~
  45. Next Slashdot Poll by KingTank · · Score: 1

    I think I know what the next Slashdot poll will be...

  46. Client certificates by mr+exploiter · · Score: 1

    This is a good reason for google to start supporting client identification through SSL certificates.

  47. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I think would rather live under the thumb of the US government than the PRC. From my point of view, maybe it's because I'm from a country friendly towards the US, US in general have been relatively benevolent "rulers" in comparison to what China could be capable of.

    That's because you are currently under the spell of the US. If you are instead under the spell of China, believe me, China can appear much more of a benevolent ruler. Actually the Chinese government (and past dynasties) is the expert at creating a big happy family in which you would totally forget what individualism is (assuming you knew it in the first place).

  48. Re:How many non-CN gmail users ever use Gmail in C by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 2, Interesting

    not only all countries but my own, I would like to be able to whitelist to

    - my work IP
    - my home internet provider

    and that's it, if I travel I can always stop restrictions temporarily, but there should be no reason why any location but the two above should be able to access my email account on a regular basis.

    If Google wanted to make things simpler for users, you could also have the option to restrict by geolocation, given how good it is nowadays it should be trivial to say 'allow connections only from this city'

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
  49. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by darth+dickinson · · Score: 1

    Sure. I said GP talked like something, but I didn't say what you said I did. Is that clear enough for you?

    I'm not seeing the bit where GP said that "we" were good, just that "they" are bad. Can you clarify?

    And you talk just like the stupid people in the movies: We are good and they are evil.

  50. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    That's supposed to be in the movies. Is this the nitpicking day on Slashdot or what?

  51. extending reality by manaway · · Score: 0

    While we don't do many atrocities to people here at home, the "third world" is open game.

    Guess that depends on the definition of many. The US has the highest number of children in prison for life without parole. Puts some people whom appear to be Mexican in prison for that reason alone, for years, without access to attorneys or judges, before deportation. Puts a substantial percentage of people with varying shades of skin in prison for minor reasons, and keeps them there for life thanks to a baseball mentality of 3 strikes and bigoted sentencing. Just a sampling of the atrocities that occur in the US thanks to having biased people working in government and positions of authority. As you note, the atrocities the US government and its big business boss commit in other countries are worse and the scale larger, but there's enough to have some at home too.

  52. Intentionally misleading summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google has had these warnings for every country that you're not usually in, something that the summary very carefully omits. It's got sweet fuck-all to do with the China spying episode.

  53. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by cf18 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Of course you don't know how else to see China since you are rather ignorant. What else can China do when their citizen was illegally captured in Chinese territory by a far superior military alliance of Japan/US Navy force? Retreat like a coward like 1930s? Japan is the bully here, not China. And guess what forced Japan to release the the captain? Obama told Japan to stop playing game, not China.

  54. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by thoughtsatthemoment · · Score: 1

    And guess what forced Japan to release the the captain? Obama told Japan to stop playing game, not China.

    I think it was because China detained four Japanese. In the 1930s, that's give Japan the excuse to invade China. Not any more.

  55. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

    Wait, is that the Supreme Court of the United States?

  56. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

    Why is it when the US is criticized, responses in the vein of "other countries do it too" is unacceptable and often labeled troll, yet when a different country is under the radar, responses in the vein of "the US does it too" is the first and greatest comeback, and in this case labeled "Insightful"?

    Because the US has presented itself as a moral high ground and example for the rest of the world, or tried to. When the role model does wrong excuses don't fly.

  57. How do they do it ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am in Australia and have no connections with Chinese interests. My account has been accessed twice - even though I had a strong password. The second time the account was only accessed through Chrome and all other web access was via firefox running noscript. The first time a spam email was sent to all my contacts. I couldnt identify any thing done the second time.

    Id love to know how to stop these hacks but I cant work out how they do it.

  58. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by stimpleton · · Score: 1

    Benevolent Rulers are only benevolent when the subjects are doe-eyed submissives.

    And the subjects that are not good? Well, just wait till father gets home.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
  59. I got hacked too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got the warning, after my account was cracked.

    I went away for the weekend of September 10-14th. When I got back I opened my mail (all gmail accounts) in Evolution and there were over 100 "Delivery Status Notification" warnings. They listed an email address that I have never seen before and said "The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect."

    The message it was trying to send was

    Start of message. (I'd use =...= but /. is giving me a hassle about "junk characters"
    Hello,
    This is an automated notification regarding your World of Warcraft account. Your account options was recently modified through the Account Management website.
    *** If you did NOT make any changes to your account or subscription, we recommend you login to Account Management at the following link to review your account settings:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account/billing/
    If you cannot sign into Account Management using the link above, or if unauthorized changes continue to happen, please contact Blizzard Billing & Account Services for advanced assistance.

    Account security is solely the responsibility of the accountholder. Please be advised that in the event of a compromised account, Blizzard representatives will typically lock the account. In these cases the Account Administration team will require faxed receipt of ID materials before releasing the account for play.
    Regards,
    The World of Warcraft Support Team
    Blizzard Entertainment
    End of message.

    I have never played WOW.

    I changed my password immediately. I got the warning message from Google the other day. I changed my password again. I have no idea how they got or are getting my password. I do not use that email account for any transactions. I don't do anything in China, except that I did buy 2 items from Deal Extreme.

    1. Re:I got hacked too by mccalli · · Score: 1

      " I have no idea how they got or are getting my password."

      They may not be doing, this could be a simple Joe Job case. They scrape your email address from somewhere, then send out a ton of mail using your address as the Reply To. They don't need any password to do this - check your 'sent' folder, did you really send those messages or is it just claiming you did in the Reply To?

      There's very little you can do about this. Personally I set up SPF to specify that only certain domains were allowed to send mail. If the receiving mailserver has a brain, it will check these records and disallow any joe-job spam. My own mailserver also recognises bounces claiming to be from me but which haven't originated from those domains.

      Not perfect, but it's one possible step.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:I got hacked too by RichiH · · Score: 1

      > check your 'sent' folder, did you really send those messages or is it just claiming you did in the Reply To?

      If that is the only way you have to check if your account has been compromised, you have other problems...

  60. Re:Um: “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s comin by bonch · · Score: 1

    See how you're able to talk about those events, write books and songs about them, and view photographs? Those isolated incidents are views as public black marks on American history and are not standard operating policy, nor are they hidden by the government. In fact, many politicians have ridden to office on their outspoken criticisms of America's past.

  61. Simple solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps its been mentioned before, but I thought there was a pretty simple solution.

    Google need to add exclusions of countries to your accounts.

    So you would set your "Home" as Australia for example which you can change if you wanted to move overseas.

    Then that would block all countries except Australia from accessing your account.

    Then you could have Holiday mode where you can enable America from 1/10/2010 to 1/11/2010.

    It does have some minor flaws, but it should solve most issues with hacked accounts.

  62. How does this work? by Amlothi · · Score: 1

    Does Google track my normal usage pattern? If so, they should warn me of any anomaly, not just from China but any other country that is outside the norm for my account.

    I am in China. I access my Gmail every day from here. I have never seen this message. Somehow, they must know that is the norm for me. Will I get a warning if my account is suddenly accessed from the US?

    --
    ~A~
  63. Re:How many non-CN gmail users ever use Gmail in C by flyingfsck · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Uh, when you travel, you only visit *one* country? It appears that you are indeed living in North America.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  64. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    You seem to have deep seated daddy issues. Still wondering who yours was, eh?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  65. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    Wait, is that the Supreme Court of the United States?

    They're just being modest. Obviously, it's really the Supreme Court of the World, and if you don't acknowledge that, well, you're either with Us or with The Terrorists.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  66. The USA will ban Alex Jones soon. by elucido · · Score: 1

    And then you won't be able to search for conspiracy theories in the USA. It's really no different from China in terms of how government acts. All modern governments generally act the same. Yes North Korea may be the exception, but capitalist governments generally are similar.

    Individuals don't matter anymore in any government that I know of. You are either a tax payer or a consumer.

    1. Re:The USA will ban Alex Jones soon. by vistapwns · · Score: 1

      Pray tell, what Conspiracy theory can I not search for in America? In fact, there is no such government censorship on the internet, only against Warez and child porn basically. You really fail at thinking things though if you think Americans have censored internet searches like the Chinese.

      --
      "...I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease." - Linus Torvalds
    2. Re:The USA will ban Alex Jones soon. by elucido · · Score: 1

      Pray tell, what Conspiracy theory can I not search for in America? In fact, there is no such government censorship on the internet, only against Warez and child porn basically. You really fail at thinking things though if you think Americans have censored internet searches like the Chinese.

      I said they are in the process of doing so, not that they are doing it without a fight. What do you think they are trying to build the internet kill switch for?

    3. Re:The USA will ban Alex Jones soon. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The USA will ban Alex Jones soon.

      Alex Jones makes money from fools like you.

      It's really no different from China in terms of how government acts.

      Except that you are talking about an imagined tomorrow by a guy who makes his living on conspiracy theories. Whereas today I can read about Kent State, listen to a protest song about it, visit tons of sites about 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. In China they face Orwellian censorship. You can't even look up a historical protest that happened over 20 years ago. So um, yeah, the "same" in the mind of a conspiracy nut who takes Alex Jones as gospel.

  67. The USA lets you speak and then arrests you later. by elucido · · Score: 1

    China won't let you speak at all. Honestly what difference does it make? Or did you not hear about the raids on anti war protesters around the country? Or have you not heard about Cointel Pro?

    The USA has no moral high ground over any other developed nation. The moral high ground was lost when the USA started torturing people.

  68. Here is proof that you are wrong or stupid. by elucido · · Score: 1

    While you are hyping the "freedoms" of the USA, the FBI is busy raiding US citizens.

    http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/feds-raid-homes-in-chicago-minnesota-in-terror-probe-20100924

    Theres a time to defend the US government, this isn't the time. Morally the US government cannot be defended. In fact morality and government don't even belong in the same sentence. Governments fight and win wars, if you want morality go to church.

    1. Re:Here is proof that you are wrong or stupid. by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > Morally the US government cannot be defended. In fact morality and government don't even belong in the same sentence.
      > Governments fight and win wars, if you want morality go to church.

      Agree. But church and morality don't belong in the same sentence either.

  69. Thats because hes under surveillance most likely. by elucido · · Score: 1

    See how you're able to talk about those events, write books and songs about them, and view photographs? Those isolated incidents are views as public black marks on American history and are not standard operating policy, nor are they hidden by the government. In fact, many politicians have ridden to office on their outspoken criticisms of America's past.

    The only reason the US government allows him to talk about it is because the FBI is probably tapping his phone and watching his every move. China might not be as efficient at spying on it's citizens but the USA is efficient enough to do it and if people speak out then they just watch you even more closely.

  70. And US elections using "voting machines" by elucido · · Score: 1

    So while there is a mock election, there is no way to know who really won. Probably the winner is whichever side has the best hackers. How is that any better or worse than China?

  71. What happened to the black panthers? by elucido · · Score: 1

    They got jailed for doing something similar. In fact it was exactly the same kind of thing, only slightly more organized and a bit more vocal.

    1. Re:What happened to the black panthers? by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Black panthers? "a bit more vocal"

      Are you joking? I very clearly stated that it is illegal to attempt to overthrow the government with force or violence. Likewise, using force and violence against other political groups, etc, is highly illegal. Black panthers.

  72. The US government is power hungry authoritarian. by elucido · · Score: 1

    Please do not throw phrases like that around applying it to China when it can just as easily apply to the USA. Our country is just as power hungry and authoritarian, perhaps more so if you look around the globe.

  73. What about the US citizen on the gov hitlist? by elucido · · Score: 1
  74. The material support to terrorists clause by elucido · · Score: 1
  75. Incomplete notification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many times has my account been accessed by NSA, FBI or other agencies from other "trusted nations"?

  76. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

    As I said, I'm from a country friendly with the US.

    IMO, while the US has been a bully at times, the most they do is apply economic pressure, and if the their target simply refuses to budge and the matter isn't that big a deal, they either compromise or just let it go.
    Only in the worst case does military force gets used.

    In summary, again from my subjective PoV, the US at least has some respect for the sovereign and rights of the nations they interact with.

    China? They don't seem to respect anyone.
    They feel just because they are bigger, they can force their will on anyone - to them might is always right 100% of the time.
    Strength and military percussions are the only thing they response to.

    Now I wish my country didn't have to live under the thumb of superpower states.
    But I have to say, living under the thumb of the US appears to be better then living under the rule of the PRC.

  77. Yah, that'll help... by RichiH · · Score: 1

    You seem to be un-aware of the nature of proxies, tunnel end-points and trojaned machines.

  78. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by slyguy135 · · Score: 1

    This idea that China is a super-villain and the US is a superhero is based off of myth, nationalism and ignorance,

    Correct.

    we are no better than the Chinese.

    Wrong (and hence a non sequitur as a bonus).

  79. Just happened to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just happened to me. I only found out once the bounce backs started to hit my phone 5 hours later.

    Was sending WOW spam, alphabetically.

    Ip of 59.174.113.114 access type "Unknown"

    Ip traces back ok but ports are closed according to nmap.

    My passwords are fairly secure too :(

  80. GPG encryption by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Yup. As usual, end-to-end encryption is the only valid solution to be sure that no one along the transmission chain could snoop on your e-mail. For anything private or sensitive, that's the only solution.

    With anything else, there are still weak point along the chain, like the mail being stored in clear on the server and being accessed there.

    And I don't think offering GPG with Webmail is acceptable. If you have to let GMail handle your GPG keys it defeats the whole purpose.

    As for the webmail part, that could be actually doable it the decryption is actually done on the client side :
    - the webmail servers stores and transmits email in encrypted form
    - the javascript running on the reciever's Firefox does the decryptions
    - as such no un-encrypted copy exists anywhere on the web
    - the key remains locally stored and accessed only by the locally running Javascript. Not uploaded.
    - as a bonus, as the Javscript is delivered in plain text, users can run checks to be sure that nothing shady happens (like the local app using the local GPG service to decrypt the messages, but then uploading them back to the mail server).

    In fact, that could probably be done today with a combination of Userscripts and/or Plugins.

    From what I've understood that partly what Meebo is doing, to avoid overloading their server and having the whole webapp running over HTTPS. Instead online login is HTTPS and then only the messages are transmitted encrypted (except it's server-to-client encryption, not end-to-end encryption).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:GPG encryption by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      As for the webmail part, that could be actually doable it the decryption is actually done on the client side :
      - the webmail servers stores and transmits email in encrypted form
      - the javascript running on the reciever's Firefox does the decryptions
      - as such no un-encrypted copy exists anywhere on the web
      - the key remains locally stored and accessed only by the locally running Javascript. Not uploaded.

      Interesting idea. But it won't work easily the way browser security currently is implemented (same-origin policy). As far as I know one can get trust certificates for Java archives. But I'm not so sure about Javascript.

    2. Re:GPG encryption by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      As for the webmail part, that could be actually doable it the decryption is actually done on the client side :
      - the webmail servers stores and transmits email in encrypted form
      - the javascript running on the reciever's Firefox does the decryptions
      - as such no un-encrypted copy exists anywhere on the web
      - the key remains locally stored and accessed only by the locally running Javascript. Not uploaded.
      - as a bonus, as the Javscript is delivered in plain text, users can run checks to be sure that nothing shady happens (like the local app using the local GPG service to decrypt the messages, but then uploading them back to the mail server).

      And herein lies the problem. The whole point of Webmail is that you can check your e-mail anywhere you can access a Web browser, be it your computer, a friend's computer, a public computer, a Web kiosk, etc. There are only two ways GPG can work with Webmail:
      1. Storing the keys on the mail server, allowing the possibility of e-mail provider snooping.
      2. Storing the keys locally, which requires hauling a flash drive everywhere, and assumes that you even can use flash drives with the client computer. Also things like FireGPG require specific browsers with these addons installed. If the client machine doesn't have it, a portable copy must be on the flash drive, which complicates things further because the portable app must be for the client's OS and the client must allow executable code.

      1 requires ultimate trust in the provider, which is what everyone not using GPG for all correspondence is doing now. It provides privacy for the transmission from the source server to the destination one, but that's about it. 2 requires portable storage of both the keys and possibly the browser, severely limiting where one can check mail, or at least making it so inconvenient that most people won't even bother with the system.

  81. users need to manage their passwords better by aDSF762 · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't illegal attempts to access our G-mail accounts be a lot harder if everyone changes their password regularly. http://randomkeygen.com/

    --
    sense of security, like pockets jingling...
  82. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If push comes to shove...

    ...the US will either default or print money to pay its debt, rest assured.

  83. Why the accounts are getting hacked by Vexar · · Score: 1

    For everyone who has an online account, here's the issue: There's no anti-fraud checking for your "forgot my password" tools. So that means, if you are in China, and hacking an account, you go to the "I forgot my password" link for that account, and answer the question. voila! You are in. Sure, might take a few times, but who cares? I asked someone I know with a relationship with Google and Yahoo to do something with the info, and the response was un-flattering. So please, if your question is "what is my favorite color" and it is red, white, or blue, come up with a better answer. Like "red-blooded American" or "white like the stars" or "blue a shade after midnight" This will foil the Chi-coms so they can't use a dictionary attack. Longer the better. 20 characters, and Google itself would have a hard time doing a brute-force rainbow attack.

  84. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's funny how in the last month the Financial Times reported that in Europe the number of people who fear China outnumbers the number that fear terrorists 3 to 1. Whereas here in the US we are all about Islamic terrorists.
    Anyway we have so many companies here in the US which are blindly running to China for more profit. So if you are living in the US you might as well start welcoming our new overlords.
    In the mean time , I am concerned that within the next 10 to 20 years China might ignite a spark that sets off a war, a big one.
    Currently they are stealing (basically we are giving it to them ) technology as fast as we can create it. I've sat in my company and watched DOD development money fund projects for systems, while the Chinese looked over our shoulders and watched every step of development.

    Right now the US cannot contain China in no way shape of form. We can't match them militarily or economically, we just don't have a big enough stick to swing anymore.
    I think you will see Japan back step as gracefully as possible here in the near future once they realize there isn't a damn thing the US could do for them if China wanted to start fishing in Tokyo harbor.

    But if China wasn't really ready for a fight they wouldn't have stopped the shipment/sale of "rare earths" to Japan. It didn't work out that well for us when we stopped shipment of oil to Japan in 1941. But I think by that time Japan was already itching for a fight.

  85. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is not really true. China is doing all the things that USA used to do back in the 40's/50's. They are helping a number of dictators and spreading some wealth, but most of it remains with the dictators.

  86. Re:China shouldn't have been allowed to join the W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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  87. The point of failure... by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The whole point of Webmail is that you can check your e-mail anywhere you can access a Web browser, be it your computer, a friend's computer, a public computer, a Web kiosk, etc.

    If you access the mail from an unkown computer, you can't trust that computer for security.

    2 requires portable storage of both the keys and possibly the browser, severely limiting where one can check mail, or at least making it so inconvenient that most people won't even bother with the system.

    Theoretically, the keys could also be stored on the web, as long as they are password protected, and the client could be entirely javascript or java. Thus don't require USB access or rights to run external software.

    Now practically, you still have the problem that you are running it on some untrusted machine. Which could be infected and do some snooping itself (and given the high infection rate among Windows machine that is really a possibility).

    Again, only one single way to be sure about privacy and secrecy : end-to-end encryption.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  88. Why cant they just..... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    Me being Gmail, and seeing this would block all incoming attempts from china into whatever server that held the american accounts,
    say anyone not living in the us, can not access their us account, they would have to set up a foreign account (.ch for china i guess)
    Seriously, we need to worry about this now? Google has done such an awesome job,
    I would hate to think they have to start wasting money and resources to these types of problems.

    I guess there will always be a way to hack, and there will always be ways to protect against....but my gmail is really only for me, and I guess if i travel overseas, and i am no longer on the american continent, then I should not have to worry about reaching my gmail from china. This could also force them to start using a lot more proxies like tor and such, but this would raise flags all over, and let you see more and more which are the proxy control centers coming out of china, then you cold shut them down...or ddos them or something...